Should the FDA Test and Regulate Supplements?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The health supplements industry is huge. Googling, I see numbers from $40 billion to $80 billion in the US, and double that world-wide.

As I understand it, there is no federal program to test the safety, quality or effectiveness of supplements. Should there be?

There are a couple of independent companies that test some supplements and you can, for example, look for the USP label on your supplement bottles.

I'm looking at some bottles that I have. A couple say "USP" while others say "Lab Tested" and "GMP" (Good Manufacturing Practices) and so on. In theory, GMP means the manufacturing facility meets FDA regulations, but doesn't mean the product is good. So it's nice to see, but is only part of the picture. And, of course, anyone can stamp those things on their labels. If it's a big brand, they probably aren't lying, because they have to much to risk. Then again if there are no laws or regulations, is there really and risk? And if you've never heard of the supplier, who knows?

So, anyway, would you favor authorizing and funding the FDA or another government agency to test and verify that supplements actually have what they say, and are free from adulterants?

 

[SSG T]

There are a lot of people that would be shocked at what is and isn't in their favorite supplements...to include vitamins.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Probably. If it does come to that there should be a rating/ranking where supplements are on a tiered system. There are a bunch of things out there that have a warning label that says for research testing only. There are also a bunch of stuff that is legit safe. They may be harmless or they may not be. Having said that I do not believe a system could be set up to do it correctly and expeditiously.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Probably. I have taken a deep dive into some of them. As a guy in mid 50’s and biking well over 10,000 miles a year I was curious if anything out there would help me with consistent energy levels.

I would read about something and then find a lot of people debunking it all as crap and don’t need it.

Maybe some of them work but in the end it seems quality food intake is the best.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I do not believe a system could be set up to do it correctly and expeditiously.

Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. We don't test every food product, but we definitely have a safer food supply because of the testing we actually do. I'm thinking something similar for supplements.

 

[ConvenientParking]

This would destroy the dreams of people who think they can get rich by charming everyone in their rolodex into filling their garages with supplements that will make them also rich in turn after they try charming everyone in their own rolodex into filling their garages with supplements. So many avid self-help readers will have to accept their fate as working class. I'm not sure we have the mental health infrastructure in place to handle this crisis.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. We don't test every food product, but we definitely have a safer food supply because of the testing we actually do. I'm thinking something similar for supplements.

My big concern is if a system is set up then big pharma becomes the 800 lb gorilla in the room and a bunch of stuff is suddenly nowhere to be found.

 

[TennNole17]

The government sucks, so no- do not give them more things to sucks at.

 

[noleclone2]

There are a lot of people that would be shocked at what is and isn't in their favorite supplements...to include vitamins.

This may explain why my dick is still 4 inches and I need a new liver.

 

[ConvenientParking]

The government sucks, so no- do not give them more things to sucks at.

Agreed, we should believe the Harold Hills of the supplement world. They have before and after photos I can see and make sense of. For all I know, all lab results are made up and especially government ones.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

My big concern is if a system is set up then big pharma becomes the 800 lb gorilla in the room and a bunch of stuff is suddenly nowhere to be found.

Being worried about Big Pharma is always smart.

That said, supplement safety enforcement should only hurt those whose products aren't safe. In theory. Food safety enforcement has probably put restaurants and some food manufacturers out of business for unsafe products, too, but is that a bad thing?

"Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that herbal products marketed for weight loss are the type of supplements that most frequently send people to the emergency room...."

And that's just herbal weight loss supplements.

The Truth About ‘Nature’s Ozempic’

What experts know about berberine, the chemical compound purported to help induce weight loss.

www.nytimes.com

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The supplement industry looks like a pretty good example of the free market at work.

By all accounts, the free market is not doing a good job of providing actual value. Lots of money to be made, so some will see only that and say the free market is doing a fine job. But the level of harm and fraud is disturbing and, at the very least, needs to be thoroughly investigated.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Being worried about Big Pharma is always smart.

That said, supplement safety enforcement should only hurt those whose products aren't safe. In theory. Food safety enforcement has probably put restaurants and some food manufacturers out of business for unsafe products, too, but is that a bad thing?

"Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that herbal products marketed for weight loss are the type of supplements that most frequently send people to the emergency room...."

And that's just herbal weight loss supplements.

The Truth About ‘Nature’s Ozempic’

What experts know about berberine, the chemical compound purported to help induce weight loss.

www.nytimes.com

I agree.

I think in the vast majority of adverse incidents it is people acting stupid. I mean there was a phase going around where idiots were dry ingesting pre workout supplements. You can't fix stupid.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Would we be just testing the contents and verifying contents or are we talking about verifying their claims too?

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Would we be just testing the contents and verifying contents or are we talking about verifying their claims too?

I would like some verification of claims but maybe that isn’t realistic or consistent enough. At least force them to have a disclaimer read as slowly as the ad itself state results are not proven. Or the font the same size if a print ad.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Would we be just testing the contents and verifying contents or are we talking about verifying their claims too?

Let's start with the first one: just testing and verifying the contents.

Some testing for harm would be sensible, too, but testing their claims may be too hard and too expensive. So if it's up to me, I say put most of the effort into verifying contents, some in testing for harm, and none, for now, testing claims.

I believe there is already some way to report harm from supplements which can lead to government testing of the product. That may be good enough, but I wouldn't oppose expanding that capability.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Let's start with the first one: just testing and verifying the contents.

Some testing for harm would be sensible, too, but testing their claims may be too hard and too expensive. So if it's up to me, I say put most of the effort into verifying contents, some in testing for harm, and none, for now, testing claims.

I believe there is already some way to report harm from supplements which can lead to government testing of the product. That may be good enough, but I wouldn't oppose expanding that capability.

I agree. . . I think for right now it would be difficult to evaluate the claims.

Verifying contents is easier and should be done.

I'm ok with claims they just continue to say that the FDA has not evaluated these claims or something like that.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

The government sucks, so no- do not give them more things to sucks at.

The FDA has enough on their plate regulating (or attempting to) an industry with >$600,000,000,000 in annual sales that result in >100,000 deaths.

Priorities.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The FDA has enough on their plate regulating (or attempting to) an industry with >$600,000,000,000 in annual sales that result in >100,000 deaths.

Priorities.

That's like saying our cops have so many murders to handle, let's not bother with rapes.

Of course they should also go after rapes. And if they need more funding and personnel, then make it happen.

 

[IowaPackFan]

I only say absolutely yes because of the melatonin article about how melatonin levels can be way higher than what’s actually on the box. And one instance there was no melatonin in it and it contains CBD. This can be dangerous for children.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

That's like saying our cops have so many murders to handle, let's not bother with rapes.

Of course they should also go after rapes. And if they need more funding and personnel, then make it happen.

Yeah. That's the problem...lack of funding. Lmao.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yeah. That's the problem...lack of funding. Lmao.

OK, which of our banned wingnuts are you?

Do you think an ethnic-looking avatar will protect you?

 

[Colonoscopy]

The health supplements industry is huge. Googling, I see numbers from $40 billion to $80 billion in the US, and double that world-wide.

As I understand it, there is no federal program to test the safety, quality or effectiveness of supplements. Should there be?

There are a couple of independent companies that test some supplements and you can, for example, look for the USP label on your supplement bottles.

I'm looking at some bottles that I have. A couple say "USP" while others say "Lab Tested" and "GMP" (Good Manufacturing Practices) and so on. In theory, GMP means the manufacturing facility meets FDA regulations, but doesn't mean the product is good. So it's nice to see, but is only part of the picture. And, of course, anyone can stamp those things on their labels. If it's a big brand, they probably aren't lying, because they have to much to risk. Then again if there are no laws or regulations, is there really and risk? And if you've never heard of the supplier, who knows?

So, anyway, would you favor authorizing and funding the FDA or another government agency to test and verify that supplements actually have what they say, and are free from adulterants?

Pro: Would eliminate, potentially, unsafe supplements.
Cons: Big pharma has a say in what its competition is.

I don't think we should venture into the regulation of such supplements unless we can show good reason to believe one is (potentially) very dangerous.

 

[JWolf74]

Absolutely

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I only say absolutely yes because of the melatonin article about how melatonin levels can be way higher than what’s actually on the box. And one instance there was no melatonin in it and it contains CBD. This can be dangerous for children.

And apparently that's widespread in the supplement arena.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Pro: Would eliminate, potentially, unsafe supplements.
Cons: Big pharma has a say in what its competition is.

I don't think we should venture into the regulation of such supplements unless we can show good reason to believe one is (potentially) very dangerous.

So . . . widespread consumer fraud isn't enough to care?

 

[pink shizzle]

I use labdoor .com for supplements. They actual take in and test supplements and post results and comparisons to what the company had advertised.

 

[ATLNole1]

Agree the primary concern for the FDA should be to verify that a supplement includes the ingredients and the amounts it says on the label and does not include other items not disclosed.
Policing the claims is too complex so we should let people make their own decisions about what to take. Most of the claims are vague anyway like more energy, better sleep, etc.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

OK, which of our banned wingnuts are you?

Do you think an ethnic-looking avatar will protect you?

'Protect' me? Protect me from what - or from whom? Is there some secret avatar code around here that grants the user freedom of speech? If i switch mine to a Bernie or a Biden or an AOC instead of my 'ethnic' avatar will that make everything kosher?
Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Titus Andronicus]

Why not go in the exact opposite direction* ... since far more damage seems to result from FDA approved drugs (overdoses, black markets, etc.) than from those regulated by the market.

Did anyone notice that the entire population of the country was able to get up to speed on Covid vaccines and Covid treatments long before the FDA issued any approvals. Quite possibly, they even then, got it wrong. Individual efforts to learn what needed to be known created one of the best showings on social media that I have seen in my days on HROT ... We had 3-4 posters that were so good at analyzing the fast-moving and breaking news, that I actually stopped opening my Anthony Fauci emails and news articles.

I think it is fair to say that the free market (of ideas, information, and goods) worked.

Word of mouth backed up by the ability to sue and jail the bad actors is a hallmark of the American free market system. In the long run, it will always outperform a model based on government "Expertise" and central planning.

...................................................................

*When I say, "Opposite direction," I mean a complete dismantling of the FDA and creating a business model for all drugs akin to what we have currently in the vitamin/supplement industry.

If we removed the cost of compliance with government regulations from the cost of producing drugs, the prices would over time trend lower and ultimately settle at a fraction of where they are at the present time.

The pharmaceutical market should be modelled on the market for supplements ... not the other way around.

 

[MargarettConnors]

It's a valid concern. With the supplement industry being so vast and largely unregulated, there's definitely a risk of inconsistency and even potential harm. While some companies voluntarily adhere to certain standards like GMP and USP, it's not a guarantee of quality. Having a government agency like the FDA oversee and test supplements for safety and effectiveness could provide much-needed assurance for consumers. It's crucial to ensure that what we're putting into our bodies is trustworthy, especially when it comes to supplements. Argireline peptide and other reliable raw materials play a significant role in maintaining the integrity of products across various industries, emphasizing the importance of stringent quality control measures.

 

[ClarindaA's]

NMN is going to be taken away by big pharma. This pisses me off age mashers be not trust the FDA or pharmaceuticals, as much as supplement companies

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Did anyone notice that the entire population of the country was able to get up to speed on Covid vaccines and Covid treatments long before the FDA issued any approvals.

No. Because I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

What am I missing?

 

[GOHOX69]

All drugs need better oversight. Including the ones big pharma is pumping out. I had a colleague, who had cancer, who went on Pluvicto. He basically started to glow with isotopic accumulation. Then he died. His tumors, instead of responding, went nuts. At the time of his death, he was more tumor, less person.

If that's a blockbluster, and it costs a shit ton, then yea, I want to know more and the endless ads for Prevagen, which everyone knows is 100% BS.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

All drugs need better oversight. Including the ones big pharma is pumping out. I had a colleague, who had cancer, who went on Pluvicto. He basically started to glow with isotopic accumulation. Then he died. His tumors, instead of responding, went nuts. At the time of his death, he was more tumor, less person.

If that's a blockbluster, and it costs a shit ton, then yea, I want to know more and the endless ads for Prevagen, which everyone knows is 100% BS.

The whole ads side of drugs/supplements is another nightmare. I won't go so far as to say we should prohibit ads, but we should absolutely have high standards to minimize misinformation, deliberate or otherwise.

We need a stronger, better-funded FDA (and other relevant agencies) with much better protection against corporate capture and corruption.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

The whole ads side of drugs/supplements is another nightmare. I won't go so far as to say we should prohibit ads, but we should absolutely have high standards to minimize misinformation, deliberate or otherwise.

We need a stronger, better-funded FDA (and other relevant agencies) with much better protection against corporate capture and corruption.

Makes sense, what with the revolving door that exists between the FDA and Big Pharma, and the corruption inherent in their dirty relationship.

About as much sense as a husband buying his wife a new bed as a way to address her cheating habit that arises whenever he’s out of town.

Let me know how that works out.

 

[Titus Andronicus]

No. Because I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

What am I missing?

That is a post from out of the past.

I think I was referring to the technical data that was showing up on these boards for a few months. Everyone was either an expert or posing as an expert.

There was a lot of jargon everywhere for a period of time, but the body of work provided on HROT proved to be somewhat on the money at the end of the day.

There were two or three ... or four including yourself posters who seemed to be paying a lot of attention to the science. I think they mostly got it right.