So, why is the B1G Ten struggling so far in the tournament...

[the24fan]

At the time of our BIG tourney loss to IL, I posted that it could be a blessing in disguise. Why go thru another meat grinder of a game that will basically have no impact on your seed? Better to get the day of the champ game off, avoid injuries, and not get beaten up in a physical game. Interesting that the two teams that played in the BIG champ are both gone now.

Also, and i'm sure there's nothing to this, but it is a little weird that the BIG ncaa championship drought coincides exactly with the BIG tourney being introduced. 98 was the first year of the BIG tourney, only 1 ncaa champ since then. Can't imagine it helps teams at all to get the crap beat out of them for 3-4 games in 3-4 days, then turn around right away and play in the NCAA a few days later.

Very good observation

 

[fezzador]

Very good observation

Many other conferences conclude their tournaments before the BTT even begins.

 

[33hawkfan]

At the time of our BIG tourney loss to IL, I posted that it could be a blessing in disguise. Why go thru another meat grinder of a game that will basically have no impact on your seed? Better to get the day of the champ game off, avoid injuries, and not get beaten up in a physical game. Interesting that the two teams that played in the BIG champ are both gone now.

Also, and i'm sure there's nothing to this, but it is a little weird that the BIG ncaa championship drought coincides exactly with the BIG tourney being introduced. 98 was the first year of the BIG tourney, only 1 ncaa champ since then. Can't imagine it helps teams at all to get the crap beat out of them for 3-4 games in 3-4 days, then turn around right away and play in the NCAA a few days later.

How many titles did the B10 win in the 90s ahead of the B10 tournament beginning?

 

[ChiDoc]

The narrative that the officiating would be tighter has not happened.

Games have all been plenty physical. Loyola just out muscled Illinois.

This is more often than not just a tired narrative from fans who can’t comprehend or won’t admit that Fran‘s rosters are often severely lacking in athleticism. There’s no truth to it. They usually let them play in the tournament and most great teams are very athletic and extremely physical. These same idiots will claim there’s no defense in the NBA when the fact is if you sit court side it’s like a football game and is insanely physical.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

I think it is exactly what you saw. A bunch of really good/great teams but nobody was elite. I really thought Illinois was elite, especially the way the tournament was called. It is the tournament and you have to bring it. They got worked by Loyola who is a good team.
Ohio St. was probably overrated a bit. They got hot, then cold, then hot, then laid an egg.
Michigan is dealing with some injuries and had a huge layoff with COVID. I still think they are strong.
I still think we can and will win tomorrow. We, as we know, are streaky and have to play good defense. We are still a great team.
Purdue is young and inexperienced as mentioned. Too streaky as well.
Then the rest were solid teams that made it. Rutgers and Maryland had upset wins. Rutgers appears to have blown it unless they can come up with a bucket here. Maryland will give a good game too.

 

[BBHawk]

That's not an indicator...c'mon, if they're so good, you should have a wealth of data to reference.

You watching the game there, sport?

 

[dirtypool]

The narrative is that big ten teams lose due to the reffs allowing them to get away with fouling during conference season and then in the tournament they are whistled for those fouls that are ignored in conference.

I think this has actually been true at certain times in the past but it has not been happening this year.

I don't know what the exact foul counts were but Illinois was not getting frequently whistled for touch fouls against Loyola.

It would make sense that Loyola would have more fouls as they were more agressive defensively.

i was more thinking that as far as watching most of the hawkeye games, there is a lot of weird ticky tack fouls iowa gets called on while teams like illinois are able to ‘bull in the china shop’ on their defensive end, with Garza getting the brunt of it underneath.

Was wondering if it was called more consistently where both teams could be a bull in a china shop or both teams would be called on the ticky tack stuff where that may hurt the B1G teams.

I will admit that the only basketball i watch anymore is iowa games so i cant say that my observation in regards to reffing is based on me watching during iowa games was consistent throughout the other B1G games and that when Iowa got to the dance, i would hope they would get to the line more if Garza takes the same kind of beating he did during the season

 

[BBHawk]

Osu lost to oral Roberts....lets not gloss over that.

OR now leading.

 

[backinblack23]

In my opinion I think it's a little of everything. Most teams were overrated a little, The B1G Ten played almost all their entire league games in the scheme of things and it's a battle everynight for everyone so I think the teams are wearing down a little.

All teams have clunkers at some point and Illinois just had a bad game and Loyola is a pretty solid team that caught em. OSU surprises me a little but maybe they just didn't take them serious and by the time they woke up it was too late. Purdue surprised me as well cause the way Williams was playing for them the past month I figured he could carry them for a few games and Ivey was really starting to come on. MSU was lucky to make the tournament so they were a tossup game. Wisky did what they should have went 1-1 and same goes for Rutgers and they almost knocked off Houston.

I do think officiating also plays a part but not a pivotal part, some teams get away with more in conference and are used to it but then come tournament time they might get a crew that calls all the hand checking and physical play. I did notice that in the Iowa game the officials maybe weren't quiet ready to the speed at which Iowa plays but they adjusted after the first 10 minutes.

I also think other conferences weren't as far behind or maybe even ahead of in some places. Even a team like Grand Canyon played Iowa pretty right for half the game and then just ran out of gas. If you make it to the tourney chances are you're a pretty solid team and can beat teams if they have off nights.

 

[BBHawk]

Osu lost to oral Roberts....lets not gloss over that.

OR is a Sweet 16 team. They earned it by beating FL in regulation. Not chopped liver, is spite of your stats.

 

[RocknRollface]

i was more thinking that as far as watching most of the hawkeye games, there is a lot of weird ticky tack fouls iowa gets called on while teams like illinois are able to ‘bull in the china shop’ on their defensive end, with Garza getting the brunt of it underneath.

Was wondering if it was called more consistently where both teams could be a bull in a china shop or both teams would be called on the ticky tack stuff where that may hurt the B1G teams.

I will admit that the only basketball i watch anymore is iowa games so i cant say that my observation in regards to reffing is based on me watching during iowa games was consistent throughout the other B1G games and that when Iowa got to the dance, i would hope they would get to the line more if Garza takes the same kind of beating he did during the season

My honest opinion, fans just notice every little thing that goes against their team.

Its pretty difficult to be objective in important games.

That being said big ten refereeing is terribly inconsistent but it tends to be random IMO.

 

[BBHawk]

My honest opinion, fans just notice every little thing that goes against their team.

Its pretty difficult to be objective in important games.

That being said big ten refereeing is terribly inconsistent but it tends to be random IMO.

Well, I would say that it is consistently inconsistent but also consistently bad with a few random well-officiated games thrown in. I think for the most part the tourney games have been reffed pretty well.

 

[vacuum_cleaner]

How many titles did the B10 win in the 90s ahead of the B10 tournament beginning?

Actually that's a good point. 0 titles in the 90s, too. So the drought is even longer....0 titles in 20 years, 1 title in the past 30 years. Ouch.

10 title game participants in that time, which is very impressive. Just can't win the big one.

 

[notlongago]

OR is a Sweet 16 team. They earned it by beating FL in regulation. Not chopped liver, is spite of your stats.

As has already been decided in this thread - sweet 16 ≠ "good". By that logic anyone losing before then is "bad".

 

[BBHawk]

As has already been decided in this thread - sweet 16 ≠ "good". By that logic anyone losing before then is "bad".

Okaaaaayyyyy. So then winning is no longer what determines whether a team is good? Right.

 

[Zmanbhg]

Schools that didn't qualify for the NCAA tournament or were bounced from round 1:
Duke
Kentucky
Louisville
Memphis
Indiana
Arizona - (self-inflicted)
Notre Dame
Cincinatti
Pitt
Butler
Iowa St
UNC
Michigan St
Tennessee
Texas
UConn
Virginia
Purdue
Georgetown
Missouri

Point is, most of these teams are perennial higher seed participants in the NCAA tournament and several have national championship or final 4 banners. This is a weird year for college basketball on several levels. I believe the talent pool is deeper and spread around to more teams than ever. You can't afford to have an off night in the tournament regardless of who you are playing or you will most likely lose.

 

[PlazaHawkeye]

Overrated, not anything people could do... just a wierd season with not enough noncon games to get a good feel.

 

[RomanHawk]

That’s just silly. The Big Ten has not lost any of these games because how a game was officiated. Purdue is big and slow. Lost to a quicker, more athletic team. OSU had defensive troubles down the stretch and their loss is just unacceptable. ORU is not good. Loyola is a legit team, should have been a 4-5 seed, but again still a team you should beat. The officials or how the game was called had zero bearing on these games. Buckeyes and Illini are loaded with 4 star talent. No comparison between the teams they lost to.

Even though I said "It's not just how they effect the flow of any particular game", I guess I didn't make myself clear, at least not to you. The impact of conference officiating over years and years has shaped the style of play and even the way teams are constructed. Do you think the lack of conference tournament success over an extended period of time is a coincidence?

 

[littlez]

Even though I said "It's not just how they effect the flow of any particular game", I guess I didn't make myself clear, at least not to you. The impact of conference officiating over years and years has shaped the style of play and even the way teams are constructed. Do you think the lack of conference tournament success over an extended period of time is a coincidence?

Not at all. We haven’t been good enough to win, so we haven’t won. It’s pretty simple. The year Illinois was 31-0 or whatever it was they were a guard dominated team. Quickness and speed. They lost in the finals to a team that outplayed them. I believe you are totally wrong.

 

[Eternal Return]

Lets not forget these are one and dones, anthing can happen. You play 5 games each and I'd put money down Ill/OSU/purdue would win 4 out of 5. I still think big 10 was clearly best conf top to bottom.

I think that OSU would win 9 out of 10, Purdue 4 of 5, but Illinois might be more of a toss-up with Loyola. They were rated top ten by KenPom and the Net.

 

[ft254]

Get rid of the conference tournament.

Agree. Too much emphasis on the tourney. The Conference season title should be the the determinate.

 

[HawkRugged17]

The Big Ten teams have not played well in their games. It does happen in one game sample sizes.

One theory I heard floated today ... the Big Ten teams have been in this 'bubble' (not really a bubble, but controlled environment) longer than all of the other teams in the tournament. They have been there a week longer. What many thought might be an advantage, might actually be a disadvantage. Teams/players having to be in one area basically having to spend their time in a hotel for most of the time ...

I don't know if it really matters in the long run. The Big 10 teams have picked a bad time to play ... badly.

 

[Rustys Dad]

I think the conference was sort of over rated and I assumed no Big 10 team will be in Final Four... too many teams too up and down ... On the flip side... we are seeing many higher seeds getting picked off. Some good non high-profile teams out there playing with chips on their shoulders.

 

[HawkRugged17]