Starting 5 for Basketball

[jasonrann]

I agree with this 100%......I think of zone defense and all of those long and sometimes skinny athletes that Syracuse uses (successfully against physical teams) and I think of Patrick's lateral quickness, his ability to dribble drive, and his ability to handle on the break.....in those situations he could be VERY effective.

That said, we will have to see how he performs once real games hit.

One thing Fran is going to have for the first time (IMHO) is the ability to adjust to about any opposing lineup. If we need to go small and cat quick, we can. If he wants to go long with athleticism, we can do that too. If we need to go big with some beef, that should be an option too. The season can’t start soon enough for me.

 

[nu2u]

A lot of quality combinations available to Fran. I see quality players about 13-14 deep.

I hope to hell Fran settles on a solid 9-10 rotation for the purpose of developing roles and expectations. A regular rotation involving a set number of players also helps develop chemistry between players on the court IMO, roles and expectations become better defined.

If he does so, there will be 3 or 4 players on this roster who are going to be get limited playing time. I have no idea which players are going to shake out of the top ten...…
Patrick McCaffery seems probable.
Pemsl? - PF appears loaded
Connor McCaffery? I doubt it
Toussaint? - IDK, also seems unlikely

Which players get sorted out? Tough calls. A few players are not going to be pleased with their minutes. The alternative is to go 12-13 deep just for the sake of getting players involved. I never liked that approach and hope Fran is more conservative with his substitutions this year.

 

[jasonrann]

A lot of quality combinations available to Fran. I see quality players about 13-14 deep.

I hope to hell Fran settles on a solid 9-10 rotation for the purpose of developing roles and expectations. A regular rotation involving a set number of players also helps develop chemistry between players on the court IMO, roles and expectations become better defined.

If he does so, there will be 3 or 4 players on this roster who are going to be get limited playing time. I have no idea which players are going to shake out of the top ten...…
Patrick McCaffery seems probable.
Pemsl? - PF appears loaded
Connor McCaffery? I doubt it
Toussaint? - IDK, also seems unlikely

Which players get sorted out? Tough calls. A few players are not going to be pleased with their minutes. The alternative is to go 12-13 deep just for the sake of getting players involved. I never liked that approach and hope Fran is more conservative with his substitutions this year.

We are 11 deep if JBo plays and I don’t think that is too many. We would be strong at each position. Here is my rough look at it.

Connor/Joe T
JBo/CJ/Evelyn
Wieskamp/PMac
Nunge/Pemsl
Garza/Kriener

I imagine JBo plays limited minutes initially. He’ll test it out and see how it goes. I suspect that Joe T’s minutes will be limited initially also. They’re not going to throw him in too deep to begin. Pemsl and Kriener will get enough minutes to spell Nunge and Garza. Given that there is always a chance of injury, I like where we’re at. If one or two of the bigs go down, maybe you give Till a few minutes. If the new guards are really good, you could also slide Connor into playing some minutes at the #3.

What I am looking for is to see which combinations work the best. One or more players will surely emerge and they’ll deserve more minutes. Everyone else will fill whatever their “role” is going to be. If Fran gets back to full line shifts again, we’ll at least have someone strong at each position that is playing in their natural position.

 

[TCOOL]

Did you miss Aaron whites career?

White's Rivals profile has him listed at 6'8" 215 lbs.

Patrick's Rivals profile has him listed at 6'8" 190 lbs.

White was much bigger than Patrick when he started playing college ball.

 

[Ballhawk1221]

One thing Fran is going to have for the first time (IMHO) is the ability to adjust to about any opposing lineup. If we need to go small and cat quick, we can. If he wants to go long with athleticism, we can do that too. If we need to go big with some beef, that should be an option too. The season can’t start soon enough for me.

We should be able to play both man and zone effectively. Love the versatility of our guards.

 

[Legend12]

If Bohannon is back, I think we see Bakari more at the 2 than PG.

Which is where he should be. He's never been a drive and dish guy. He can facilitate an offense, but thus far in his career he hasn't really shown to be a PG.

 

[IllQChawk]

White's Rivals profile has him listed at 6'8" 215 lbs.

Patrick's Rivals profile has him listed at 6'8" 190 lbs.

White was much bigger than Patrick when he started playing college ball.

I don't believe that White played small forward and he definitely didn't play out front in our zone. I expect Patrick will play behind Wieskamp at small forward and if he's in the game and we're in a zone he is agile enough and long enough to play out front in the zone. I expect he will create much havoc to opposing teams.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I have this as well. After learning that Bakari played so well during the scrimmage and had 8 assists, I am encouraged.

G- Bakari Evelyn
G- Jordan Bohannon
F- Joe Wieskamp
F- Jack Nunge
C- Luka Garza

First in:
Connor
Pemsl (after game 3)
CJF
Kriener
Joe T

I'll take either of those lineups. But let's not count out CJF. He could be something. PMac too.

Very much looking forward to Monday!!!

It really could go a LOT of different ways. Here is what I'm feeling.

If Jordan is ready.
G- Bakari Evelyn
G- Jordan Bohannon
F- Joe Wieskamp
F- Jack Nunge
C- Luka Garza

If no Jordan.
G- Joe Toussaint
G- Bakari Evelyn
F- Joe Wieskamp
F- Jack Nunge
C- Luka Garza

Thoughts?

 

[Ballhawk1221]

I'm assuming Bohannon plays but is limited:

1- Evelyn/Connor/Joe T.
2- Fredrick/Bohannon/Evelyn
3- Wieskamp/Patrick
4- Nunge/Kriener
5- Garza/Kriener/Nunge

After he's served his suspension, Pemsl should slot in behind Nunge at the 4.

 

[perryhawk]

I'm assuming Bohannon plays but is limited:

1- Evelyn/Connor/Joe T.
2- Fredrick/Bohannon/Evelyn
3- Wieskamp/Patrick
4- Nunge/Kriener
5- Garza/Kriener/Nunge

After he's served his suspension, Pemsl should slot in behind Nunge at the 4.

I agree on JBO...plays limited minutes at least at first....maybe he starts....maybe not.

 

[Ballhawk1221]

I agree on JBO...plays limited minutes at least at first....maybe he starts....maybe not.

From the sound of things, yes, he'll be limited. They're going to ease him in. I don't think he'll play a whole lot in the exhibition, because he won't need to. It'll be good to get him on the floor and playing, but no need to overdo it.

We'll see how he looks, but more and more I'm thinking he'll play a few games and then shut it down.

On the other hand, I think (hope?) that Toussaint will get a bigger role as the season goes on. If Iowa is going to make some noise this season, he needs to be the guy. I'm really interested to see Toussaint and Fredrick together.

 

[Hawk-Fran1]

I saw where FRAN mentioned CJ Frederick is the teams best wing defender. If he is that and scores the way we have all heard looks like he could be the man at the 2 this year and years to come. Looks like the beat writers Chad Leistikow and Mark Emmert have CJ Frederick starting and possibly making the Big Tens all freshmen team.

 

[Ballhawk1221]

I saw where FRAN mentioned CJ Frederick is the teams best wing defender. If he is that and scores the way we have all heard looks like he could be the man at the 2 this year and years to come. Looks like the beat writers Chad Leistikow and Mark Emmert have CJ Frederick starting and possibly making the Big Tens all freshmen team.

Fran sure is shoveling the coal into the Fredrick hype train, but if CJ is even half the player he's been made out to be, he will be a huge asset this season. I do think he has, if not Bohannon's clutch gene, at least his competitiveness. He'll be a good one.

 

[Hawkeye Marching Band]

I agree on JBO...plays limited minutes at least at first....maybe he starts....maybe not.

He probably starts, because he'll be warmed up. It's possible he'll play only at the beginning of each half.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

You want the starting 5 once the season officially starts next weekend, OR come B1G season?

It really could go a LOT of different ways. Here is what I'm feeling.

If Jordan is ready.
G- Bakari Evelyn
G- Jordan Bohannon
F- Joe Wieskamp
F- Jack Nunge
C- Luka Garza

If no Jordan.
G- Joe Toussaint
G- Bakari Evelyn
F- Joe Wieskamp
F- Jack Nunge
C- Luka Garza

Thoughts?

 

[Suterman]

You want the starting 5 once the season officially starts next weekend, OR come B1G season?

Whatever you wish. How about both?

 

[perryhawk]

You want the starting 5 once the season officially starts next weekend, OR come B1G season?

I enjoy this exercise and seeing everyone's perspective....but it really just boils down to what Fran is thinking based on what he see's in practice and what his assistant coaches say (obviously)..so, how do we know?

An example would be with JBO.....early on does he start him giving deference to his seniority and his career? Or do you know that his playing a whole year is still uncertain and so you work on your starting group and just bring him in for spot minutes off of the bench until a decision is made?

That to me, is the most difficult part of making a good guess. The reason for that is that we pretty much know with great certainty that Garza & Joe are starting on the front line in the post and on the wing....it's also probable that Jack is starting at the PF..SO, JBO makes the rest of it a real wild poke in the dark. It sounds to me like CJ would be starting at the 2G if JBO wasn't a possibility there....but beyond that, who knows,.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I enjoy this exercise and seeing everyone's perspective....but it really just boils down to what Fran is thinking based on what he see's in practice and what his assistant coaches say (obviously)..so, how do we know?

An example would be with JBO.....early on does he start him giving deference to his seniority and his career? Or do you know that his playing a whole year is still uncertain and so you work on your starting group and just bring him in for spot minutes off of the bench until a decision is made?

That to me, is the most difficult part of making a good guess. The reason for that is that we pretty much know with great certainty that Garza & Joe are starting on the front line in the post and on the wing....it's also probable that Jack is starting at the PF..SO, JBO makes the rest of it a real wild poke in the dark. It sounds to me like CJ would be starting at the 2G if JBO wasn't a possibility there....but beyond that, who knows,.

I agree that Joe W and Garza...and Jack are starters. I think our main starters. Then the rest will shuffle in as the season begins. Fran will have the lineup solidified by mid-December. Barring injuries...

JBo will trickle in to start the season. CJF or Bakari could take his spot while he shakes off the rust. That said if JBo is not able to go full steam by December, he will shut things down and take the redshirt. IMHO. Hope he is able to go!

 

[skydog0784]

SIAP, I heard the starting 5 for the secret scrimmage FWIW was...

1-Connor
2-CJF
3-Joe
4-Jack
5-Luka

 

[Legend12]

SIAP, I heard the starting 5 for the secret scrimmage FWIW was...

1-Connor
2-CJF
3-Joe
4-Jack
5-Luka

 

[perryhawk]

SIAP, I heard the starting 5 for the secret scrimmage FWIW was...

1-Connor
2-CJF
3-Joe
4-Jack
5-Luka

And that could be it to start the year......

 

[Legend12]

And that could be it to start the year......

That is the plan for Monday as well.

 

[skydog0784]

Normally I would be opposed to such a "vanilla" lineup but I have a hard time arguing against any of that starting 5 (assuming JBo replaces Connor upon his return).

 

[BirdistheWord]

so many wildcards

JoBo health
CJF
Toussant
Evelyn
PMac
Connor - passed up or improved?
Nunge - What do we have here?

My prediction for stand outs:

Toussant
Evelyn

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

so many wildcards

JoBo health
CJF
Toussant
Evelyn
PMac
Connor - passed up or improved?
Nunge - What do we have here?

My prediction for stand outs:

Toussant
Evelyn

I could see Evelyn. He has the experience. More of a proven factor.... Joe T needs to slow down, from what several observers have said. Hopefully he does, and listens to his coaches. Unlike Trey D.

 

[Legend12]

Normally I would be opposed to such a "vanilla" lineup but I have a hard time arguing against any of that starting 5 (assuming JBo replaces Connor upon his return).

Same here, I just like that GIF.

Plus...everytime this thread is bumped it annoys franisdaman as he thinks his thread about starters should be first so he has to bump it, which I find sad and funny.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Ok. This is my final answer.... Pre-conference and B1G

Pre-con
1 - Connor
2 - CJF
3 - Joe W
4 - Nunge
5 - Garza

First two off bench:
JBo
Kriener


B1G
1 - Bakari
2 - CJF
3 - Joe W
4 - Nunge
5 - Garza

First two off the bench:
Connor
Pemsl

It is nearly position-less basketball that we need to play. And we need guys that can pass & shoot, drive, spread the floor, and defend.

Tomorrow starts the fun!!

Go Hawks!!!

 

[perryhawk]

Ok. This is my final answer.... Pre-conference and B1G

Pre-con
1 - Connor
2 - CJF
3 - Joe W
4 - Nunge
5 - Garza

First two off bench:
JBo
Kriener


B1G
1 - Bakari
2 - CJF
3 - Joe W
4 - Nunge
5 - Garza

First two off the bench:
Connor
Pemsl

It is nearly position-less basketball that we need to play. And we need guys that can pass & shoot, drive, spread the floor, and defend.

Tomorrow starts the fun!!

Go Hawks!!!

I think that's probably pretty close....just not sure that Bakari is a true PG..I think Legend commented on that above. MAYBE...(I have no idea) Bakari rotates between PG and 2G once JBO sits for the season (assumption) and Joe T starts to play a lot more once he gets into the groove as the season progresses?

 

[Y2KG21]

JBO May play but won’t start.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I think that's probably pretty close....just not sure that Bakari is a true PG..I think Legend commented on that above. MAYBE...(I have no idea) Bakari rotates between PG and 2G once JBO sits for the season (assumption) and Joe T starts to play a lot more once he gets into the groove as the season progresses?

.



Bakari did have 8 assists in the scrimmage. That caught my eye. Yes, it was Illannoy State. But leading the team in assists does say something.

In an interview when asked what positions he played, Bakari stated PG first. Then the 2 spot.

Everyone(a lot of people anyhow) keep saying positionless basketball. Having a lot of players that can pass & shoot and/or drive would be just that. That, Bakari having lead the team in assists, and CJF playing the main PG for his HS team, lead me to put those two in the backcourt.

Both can hit from downtown spreading out the defense. And both can drive and/or dish. Having an outside is critical for that. CMac has yet to prove that he can do that.

But Fran is going to give his kid the chance, I think. However if he struggles from downtown, then he had better not be starting. For the teams sake & Connor's sake. A coaches kid struggling, along with the team would put way too much pressure on him... Our fans would be brutal in that scenario! They can get ugly...
IMHO starting Connor would be a mistake. He doesn't need to start to get starter minutes, right? And that takes off a lot of mental pressure vs coming off the bench.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Anyone have a link to the game stream for tonight??

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Not sure why people think Connor starts at PG with Touissant and Evelyn. What does Connor do for the team? Limited / no scoring. Not going to take anyone off the bounce and won't stay in front of quick guards. The whole 'game manager' profile works as a sub but as a starting PG you need to be able to impact the game not manage it.

 

[owenhawk]

It really matters more who Fran trusts in the 2nd half and down the stretch. It’s obvious they didn’t trust Moss, which is why Baer abd Connor were in the Top 6 the last 10 minutes of games.

 

[Hawkeye Marching Band]

JBO May play but won’t start.

I think he likely will start, because he will be warmed up. If he doesn't, he would enter the game within the first few minutes, to avoid his hip stiffening. Once he exits the game, he likely will sit for the remainder of the half.

Of course, if they have a bike or something on the sidelines for him, then you can toss out my prediction.

 

[BBHawk]

Not sure why people think Connor starts at PG with Touissant and Evelyn. What does Connor do for the team? Limited / no scoring. Not going to take anyone off the bounce and won't stay in front of quick guards. The whole 'game manager' profile works as a sub but as a starting PG you need to be able to impact the game not manage it.

Connor is the best passer on the team by a wide margin. His ability to shoot the 3 is his biggest weakness, but his ability to make the players around him better and his defensive abilities make up for it. Neither Evelyn nor Toussaint have those qualities yet, at least not through a season of B10 play.

 

[Legend12]

It really matters more who Fran trusts in the 2nd half and down the stretch. It’s obvious they didn’t trust Moss, which is why Baer abd Connor were in the Top 6 the last 10 minutes of games.

If that's the case, why did Moss play late in games?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Connor is the best passer on the team by a wide margin. His ability to shoot the 3 is his biggest weakness, but his ability to make the players around him better and his defensive abilities make up for it. Neither Evelyn nor Toussaint have those qualities yet, at least not through a season of B10 play.

I agree to disagree here. Connor is not a play maker. He is sound with what he does but he is not an impact player. If a PG can't get by anybody with the ball they are going to be dribbling with their back to the basket and picking their dribble up at the 3 point line. No debate he is fundamentally sound but he is 0 threat to shoot which makes it 4 on 5 offensively. If he were able to break guys down then there is a win there but that isn't the case.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Not sure why people think Connor starts at PG with Touissant and Evelyn. What does Connor do for the team? Limited / no scoring. Not going to take anyone off the bounce and won't stay in front of quick guards. The whole 'game manager' profile works as a sub but as a starting PG you need to be able to impact the game not manage it.

one thing is for sure- players rarely improve from year to year

Connor sure got fouled a lot for someone who can’t shoot or drive.

 

[BBHawk]

I agree to disagree here. Connor is not a play maker. He is sound with what he does but he is not an impact player. If a PG can't get by anybody with the ball they are going to be dribbling with their back to the basket and picking their dribble up at the 3 point line. No debate he is fundamentally sound but he is 0 threat to shoot which makes it 4 on 5 offensively. If he were able to break guys down then there is a win there but that isn't the case.

You don't think Connor can get by anybody off the dribble?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

one thing is for sure- players rarely improve from year to year

Connor sure got fouled a lot for someone who can’t shoot or drive.

Well players seldom get more athletic and that his biggest deficiency at PG. If you want to accentuate someone's lack of lateral quickness ask them to defend the quickest guys on the other team. He is a heady player with good fundamentals but that does not translate to starting PG. He is better equipped to guard the 3 with his size. I didn't see any improvement in his jumper last year if that is what you are referring to.