Teacher fired after refusing to use student’s preferred pronouns scores major legal victory.

[RicoSuave102954]

Teacher fired after refusing to use student’s preferred pronouns scores major legal victory
In 2018, a high school French teacher named Peter Vlaming was dismissed from his position at West Point High School in Virginia. This action was taken after he repeatedly declined to use a transgender student's chosen pronouns, despite the school administration's directives.

Legal Actions Post-Firing
Following his dismissal, Vlaming initiated legal proceedings against the school board in 2019. The controversy centered around his refusal to use male pronouns for a transgender boy, opting instead to avoid pronouns entirely when addressing or referring to the student.

Court's Initial Decision
The initial lawsuit brought by Vlaming was dismissed by the courts. The dismissal underscored the balance between individual religious beliefs and the constitutional protections of diverse thoughts and expressions.

The Role of Free Speech
Vlaming, supported by the Alliance Defending Freedom, contended that the school's actions infringed upon his rights to free speech and free exercise of religion, as protected under both the Virginia Constitution and the Virginia Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Lawsuit Overturned
The Virginia Supreme Court later overturned the initial dismissal of Vlaming's lawsuit, a decision that prompted responses from various legal and civil rights groups, including the ACLU, which emphasized the necessity of equitable treatment for all students in educational settings.

Reaction from Vlaming's Legal Team
Following the Supreme Court's decision, Vlaming's attorney lauded the ruling as a validation of constitutional rights, criticizing the school board for attempting to compel Vlaming to conform to its views on gender identity.

Allegations of Rights Violations
The Supreme Court's decision to reinstate the lawsuit was based on allegations that the school board had indeed violated Vlaming's rights, although it did not conclusively resolve the merits of the case.

Defense of Vlaming's Actions
Vlaming's attorney argued that his dismissal was not due to an action he took, but rather for his inability to comply with speech that conflicted with his religious convictions, a stance supported by the court's decision to allow the lawsuit to proceed.

Religious and Philosophical Beliefs
Vlaming defended his actions by citing his religious and philosophical beliefs, which he claimed were infringed upon by the school's demands. This defense highlights a significant conflict between individual beliefs and institutional policies.

MSN

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

 

[SIXERS24]

The ACLU went against free speech. WOW sad

 

[Hawki97]

The mole hills people choose to die on…

 

[gohawks50]

If this is allowed to be considered a first amendment right, will it be okay for coaches to refer to male athletes they believe are being weak Miss, she, or her? I mean if a teacher doesn't have to respect transgender pronouns why should they have to respect cis gender pronouns?

 

[Herky T Hawk]

So if I’m reading this right the teacher didn’t use the wrong pronouns either, just chose to avoid using them completely for this student. I suppose I can see why the lawsuit dismissal was overturned.

Referring to the student as “Chad” or whatever their name is, isn’t really inequitable treatment or creating a threatening environment if that is the student’s name. Intentionally calling the student by the wrong name or terms would be.

 

[gohawks50]

So if I’m reading this right the teacher didn’t use the wrong pronouns either, just chose to avoid using them completely for this student. I suppose I can see why the lawsuit dismissal was overturned.

Referring to the student as “Chad” or whatever their name is, isn’t really inequitable treatment or creating a threatening environment if that is the student’s name. Intentionally calling the student by the wrong name or terms would be.

This article says:

Vlaming was fired in 2018 after he referred to the student as "her" during a class exercise, which he says was an accident, and again refused to begin using male pronouns.

Now if it was an accident I don't believe he should have been fired, but this article says:

The district justified its actions by saying Vlaming was insubordinate. West Point Schools Superintendent Laura Abel said they terminated Vlaming “due to his insubordination.”

She added that he repeatedly refused to comply with directives made to him by multiple WPPS administrators. According to Abel, Vlaming’s discrimination created a hostile learning environment. In addition, Abel said the students and parents felt disrespected.

Sounds like he had been told more than once how he was expected to address the student.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

The mole hills people choose to die on…

Yes, the freedom to speak the truth, and to fight being compelled to utter something you don't believe. But these are mole hills to you.
You should be happy that Americans still fight for our rights; it means your rights are protected, as well.

 

[ClarindaA's]

If this is allowed to be considered a first amendment right, will it be okay for coaches to refer to male athletes they believe are being weak Miss, she, or her? I mean if a teacher doesn't have to respect transgender pronouns why should they have to respect cis gender pronouns?

Coaches have. But i guess the difference would be reality. If i identify as black, can i say the n word? Home invasion by Ice-T was my favorite CD in high school, very influential

 

[Hawki97]

Yes, the freedom to speak the truth, and to fight being compelled to utter something you don't believe. But these are mole hills to you.
You should be happy that Americans still fight for our rights; it means your rights are protected, as well.

For sure. To me, this guy is the equivalent of a soldier on the first landings at d-day and a 9/11 fireman all wrapped into one. This situation is surely the best way to fight for our “freedom to speak the truth and to fight being compelled to utter something you don’t believe in.” God speed and thank you for your service Mr. Vlaming.

 

[thewop]

If this is allowed to be considered a first amendment right, will it be okay for coaches to refer to male athletes they believe are being weak Miss, she, or her? I mean if a teacher doesn't have to respect transgender pronouns why should they have to respect cis gender pronouns?

It's not PC but coaches have been referring to males as miss/she forever. It isn't and should never be illegal. Impolite? Derogatory? Politically incorrect? Of course.

It's not illegal to be a jerk, just unwise.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

For sure. To me, this guy is the equivalent of a soldier on the first landings at d-day and a 9/11 fireman all wrapped into one. This situation is surely the best way to fight for our “freedom to speak the truth and to fight being compelled to utter something you don’t believe in.” God speed and thank you for your service Mr. Vlaming.

Hawki97: "Freedom of speech is important, but only for things that I want to say. Being compelled to say something isn't a big deal, unless you're making me say something I don't want to."

 

[theiacowtipper]

It's not PC but coaches have been referring to males as miss/she forever. It isn't and should never be illegal. Impolite? Derogatory? Politically incorrect? Of course.

It's not illegal to be a jerk, just unwise.

I guess I don’t understand. Why is it derogatory or impolite? I guess my point is that if you don’t use a preferred pronoun, you’re being impolite in the same way as if you refuse to use a preferred pronoun for anyone else. Unless you think this teacher didn’t mean to be demeaning when he purposely refused to use a preferred pronoun.

 

[Hawki97]

Hawki97: "Freedom of speech is important, but only for things that I want to say. Being compelled to say something isn't a big deal, unless you're making me say something I don't want to."

Ray: “I know a patriot when I see one. I can’t think of any better way to fight for my freedom of speech than a teacher suing because he didn’t want to say pronouns. Mr. Vlaming is literally fighting the Battle of Midway of our time. Also, have you seen my red hat?”

 

[gohawks50]

Coaches have. But i guess the difference would be reality. If i identify as black, can i say the n word? Home invasion by Ice-T was my favorite CD in high school, very influential

It's not PC but coaches have been referring to males as miss/she forever. It isn't and should never be illegal. Impolite? Derogatory? Politically incorrect? Of course.

It's not illegal to be a jerk, just unwise.

Nobody said it's illegal for the teacher to intentionally use the wrong pronouns. He didn't get fired for being a jerk, he got fired for not following an employer's directives. I'm pretty sure the same would happen to a coach who refused to change after their employer told them not to call a player Miss,she,her, etc.

 

[gohawks50]

Hawki97: "Freedom of speech is important, but only for things that I want to say. Being compelled to say something isn't a big deal, unless you're making me say something I don't want to."

Are you the boss where you work?

 

[RicoSuave102954]

I'm calling them whatever their birth sex was, I'm not going to start calling someone whatever pronoun they feel like wearing on a particular day. There are 2 sexes (M or F) and you don't get to pick and choose which one you feel like acting on a certain day.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

This article says:

According to Abel, Vlaming’s discrimination created a hostile learning environment. In addition, Abel said the students and parents felt disrespected.

You know, in 6th grade when Sister Josepha used a yardstick across my back like a samurai sword, I felt disrespected as well. Never knew I could get her fired.

 

[DooBi]

I'm calling them whatever their birth sex was, I'm not going to start calling someone whatever pronoun they feel like wearing on a particular day. There are 2 sexes (M or F) and you don't get to pick and choose which one you feel like acting on a certain day.

That's what a douchebag says. It's not hard to be respectful.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

I'm calling them whatever their birth sex was, I'm not going to start calling someone whatever pronoun they feel like wearing on a particular day. There are 2 sexes (M or F) and you don't get to pick and choose which one you feel like acting on a certain day.

Or instead of being a weirdo that asks to see a birth certificate before address someone you could be a normal person and go with what they prefer to be called.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Are you the boss where you work?

No, I'm not, so I'm grateful for the rights I have.
Would you want a boss to compel you to say things you disagree with?

 

[RicoSuave102954]

That's what a douchebag says. It's not hard to be respectful.

Not bowing to the wishes of a weirdo is not being disrespectful.

 

[DooBi]

Not bowing to the wishes of a weirdo is not being disrespectful.

Using the term weirdo is disrespectful.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Using the term weirdo is disrespectful.

Not really if the term fits them perfectly and in this scenario it would fit like a glove.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

That's what a douchebag says. It's not hard to be respectful.

You feel that a person should use another's pronouns. You believe that's being respectful. And you can have that belief. It's quite another thing to insist that a person act that way.
I believe one should be compassionate, but I think an argument could be made that indulging in the delusions of another person might cause more harm than good.

 

[ClarindaA's]

Using the term weirdo is disrespectful.

It is weird though

 

[herkyhawk00]

If this is allowed to be considered a first amendment right, will it be okay for coaches to refer to male athletes they believe are being weak Miss, she, or her? I mean if a teacher doesn't have to respect transgender pronouns why should they have to respect cis gender pronouns?

It doesn’t sound like he used pronouns at all to refer to the student.

 

[gohawks50]

No, I'm not, so I'm grateful for the rights I have.
Would you want a boss to compel you to say things you disagree with?

So if your boss told you to call a client by certain name or refer to them as he instead of she and you refused you don't think they'd have grounds to fire you?

 

[gohawks50]

You know, in 6th grade when Sister Josepha used a yardstick across my back like a samurai sword, I felt disrespected as well. Never knew I could get her fired.

In a public school she'd be fired now regardless of whether you complained or not if it was public knowledge. Private schools may be different.

 

[gohawks50]

It doesn’t sound like he used pronouns at all to refer to the student.

Reread this post.

This article says:

Vlaming was fired in 2018 after he referred to the student as "her" during a class exercise, which he says was an accident, and again refused to begin using male pronouns.

Now if it was an accident I don't believe he should have been fired, but this article says:

The district justified its actions by saying Vlaming was insubordinate. West Point Schools Superintendent Laura Abel said they terminated Vlaming “due to his insubordination.”

She added that he repeatedly refused to comply with directives made to him by multiple WPPS administrators. According to Abel, Vlaming’s discrimination created a hostile learning environment. In addition, Abel said the students and parents felt disrespected.

Sounds like he had been told more than once how he was expected to address the student.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Reread this post.

So, if the weirdo considered themselves a cat (furry) and asked to be called "kitty" do you think the teacher should be fired for not calling them kitty?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

The mole hills people choose to die on…

Everyone should oppose the transgender cult thought fascism and tyranny.

This is no mole hill. Free expression is under assault by the transgender cultists.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

This article says:

Vlaming was fired in 2018 after he referred to the student as "her" during a class exercise, which he says was an accident, and again refused to begin using male pronouns.

Now if it was an accident I don't believe he should have been fired, but this article says:

The district justified its actions by saying Vlaming was insubordinate. West Point Schools Superintendent Laura Abel said they terminated Vlaming “due to his insubordination.”

She added that he repeatedly refused to comply with directives made to him by multiple WPPS administrators. According to Abel, Vlaming’s discrimination created a hostile learning environment. In addition, Abel said the students and parents felt disrespected.

Sounds like he had been told more than once how he was expected to address the student.

Fascists should be disrespected. These cultists should be given no respect in a free society.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

So if your boss told you to call a client by certain name or refer to them as he instead of she and you refused you don't think they'd have grounds to fire you?

No, I don't think he or she would have grounds to fire me.
If I were your boss, do you think I should be allowed to insist that you use pronouns consistent with everyone's biological sex, and that if you refuse, I can fire you?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Nobody said it's illegal for the teacher to intentionally use the wrong pronouns. He didn't get fired for being a jerk, he got fired for not following an employer's directives. I'm pretty sure the same would happen to a coach who refused to change after their employer told them not to call a player Miss,she,her, etc.

You’re a fascist. Admit it. You believe in forcing compliance because you think it is right. You do not believe in consent.

 

[ICWestfan]

The mole hills people choose to die on…

This board was way better when you took your ball and went home.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Thought
Freedom of Expression

Not. Negotiable.

Transgender cultist extremists.

God I hope this fad burns out sooner than later. All of society will benefit. Goth, Emo, Trans. Same shit, different day.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Bill Maher once again points out the US is becoming isolated in this trans lunacy. UK, France, Scandinavia off the bandwagon.

 

[gohawks50]

No, I don't think he or she would have grounds to fire me.
If I were your boss, do you think I should be allowed to insist that you use pronouns consistent with everyone's biological sex, and that if you refuse, I can fire you?

Yes, heck a woman was fired in Iowa for being too attractive. If my employer insisted I ignore preferred pronouns, it would be my choice whether to do as they asked or quit. Iowa is an at will state so as long as the employer's directive isn't something illegal or unsafe I don't think an employee would have a case to fight the dismissal.

 

[gohawks50]

So, if the weirdo considered themselves a cat (furry) and asked to be called "kitty" do you think the teacher should be fired for not calling them kitty?

If their employer instructed them to call the individual "kitty" and they repeated refused, yes.