ADVERTISEMENT

The Atlantic: You Can’t Win Elections by Telling Voters Their Concerns Are Imaginary

You guys are really bad at this.

If they're bitching about CRT, you ask them what exactly they're upset about. You ask for what is objectionable to them. Now it's up to them to give you something. And away you go.

That's all.
Well, it works really well on this board now doesn't it? We explain the same shit to the same people for decades. It gets old. You can engage and explain, and NEVER does one of them reply, "Oh. Thank you for enlightening me. I have been thinking about things the wrong way." Nope. They go back to their narrative that gets reinforced by lie after lie after lie. Again...not reality.
 
giphy.gif
well-actually-honestly.gif
 
Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses. Or republicans.
Also complicating the “Lee Atwater” narrative is the role of Asian and South Asian parents in yesterday’s results. “A lot of immigrant families came here specifically for the school system,” is how one Indian-American parent put it to me yesterday. “When you start messing with that, and say, we don't have a say, that’s when people who’ve always voted Democratic will flip on them.” Reporting about Asian and South Asian families upset about new initiatives to deemphasize admissions criteria like test scores has often been dismissive or caricatured, and that certainly seems to have been the case in Loudoun County, where a significant portion of the people seriously being cast today as dupes answering a dogwhistle are immigrant, minority residents who’ve given Democrats their votes for decades.
 
Well, it works really well on this board now doesn't it? We explain the same shit to the same people for decades. It gets old. You can engage and explain, and NEVER does one of them reply, "Oh. Thank you for enlightening me. I have been thinking about things the wrong way." Nope. They go back to their narrative that gets reinforced by lie after lie after lie. Again...not reality.

Eh? I'm talking about not dismissing anger over something because they didn't use the right acronym.

Call them on it and ask what exactly they're concerned about. Again, this isn't complicated stuff.

Obviously they're concerned about "woke shit" getting into the classroom, to put it bluntly. So ask them what woke shit they're concerned about.

But don't say... well... "not CRT" so you're crazy.
 
All of those things have happened, more less. Whether or not they're happening in Virginia k-12 currently is a different question. Yes, they're due to the bizarre new religion on the left around race and identity. Yes, they think they're doing good. No, some of it is not good.
Less. Far far less. There is no national nor state curriculum teaching kids that being white is bad. That is completely made up. At best, we have an occasional rougue teacher doing this, but they are rogue and not doing their jobs. To manufacture an entire party around this made up nonsense is wrong. It's wrong and it's sad.
 
I don’t disagree with everything in there….biggest complaint I have with “my” party is they suck so bad at politics and lack the fortitude to do the things that need to be done. They just lose so dang much to paraphrase the “Newsroom” rant.

At this critical junction in American history, they are dropping the ball. People in Trumps inner circle should have gone to jail long ago for 1/6, they should have passed the legislation they said they were going to do, and beat the GOP over the head with their base’s association with the cult. Instead we get a toothless “bipartisan” 1/6 commission that isn’t going to accomplish Jack, completely stalled legislation because two senators think their crap doesn’t stink, and a race to see who can out “woke” each other in just about every aspect of American life. Yeah I imagine people are ticked and it will cost all of us….
 
Eh? I'm talking about not dismissing anger over something because they didn't use the right acronym.

Call them on it and ask what exactly they're concerned about. Again, this isn't complicated stuff.

Obviously they're concerned about "woke shit" getting into the classroom, to put it bluntly. So ask them what woke shit they're concerned about.

But don't say... well... "not CRT" so you're crazy.
Rs aren't using this attack point, though. They are specifically using CRT, which means that they cannot absolve themselves of this specific conspiracy theory simply because it gets correctly labeled as a conspiracy theory.

Further, Rs can't then try to shift to more generic "woke" complaints when that CRT attack point becomes painfully and obviously a conspiracy theory. They need to take responsibility for their language and accusations.
 
All of those things have happened, more less. Whether or not they're happening in Virginia k-12 currently is a different question. Yes, they're due to the bizarre new religion on the left around race and identity. Yes, they think they're doing good. No, some of it is not good.
It’s not a new religion.
 
When Biden beat Trump, I thought there's no way Trump would run again, despite his massive ego. I truly believed the Dems would do well enough that Trump would be pushed aside. Now it's apparent the disaster named Biden has let Trump back into the game. Now my only hope is that someone in the GOP steps forward to challenge Trump after the midterms, and beyond.
 
When Biden beat Trump, I thought there's no way Trump would run again, despite his massive ego. I truly believed the Dems would do well enough that Trump would be pushed aside. Now it's apparent the disaster named Biden has let Trump back into the game. Now my only hope is that someone in the GOP steps forward to challenge Trump after the midterms, and beyond.
This is the point I’m at as well honestly. Biden is better than Trump, no doubt, and I think he’s a good human. But this moment needs more….
 
  • Like
Reactions: EasyHawk
You guys are really bad at this.

If they're bitching about CRT, you ask them what exactly they're upset about. You ask for what is objectionable to them. Now it's up to them to give you something. And away you go.

That's all.
People ask them this all the time. The thing is, like Nole Lou above - the things they assign to CRT have nothing to do with the actual lesson plans associated with it. It's all fear mongering to make white people, or "legacy Amercians" as Tucker is calling them this week, afraid. And it's clearly working.
 
It is a lot of things. Jemele doesn't help any.

The largest new company in america is promoting a show that is talking about "legacy Americans" being oppressed. You want to guess who that is code for? It's not native Americans. But you're upset about some lady tweeting something.
 
I don’t disagree with everything in there….biggest complaint I have with “my” party is they suck so bad at politics and lack the fortitude to do the things that need to be done. They just lose so dang much to paraphrase the “Newsroom” rant.

At this critical junction in American history, they are dropping the ball. People in Trumps inner circle should have gone to jail long ago for 1/6, they should have passed the legislation they said they were going to do, and beat the GOP over the head with their base’s association with the cult. Instead we get a toothless “bipartisan” 1/6 commission that isn’t going to accomplish Jack, completely stalled legislation because two senators think their crap doesn’t stink, and a race to see who can out “woke” each other in just about every aspect of American life. Yeah I imagine people are ticked and it will cost all of us….
I’m still waiting for someone to be charged with “insurrection”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
Hmmm, where did all of the DEI talk and "critical pedagogy" initiatives come from? Who has their prints all over CRT and "intersectionality?" Keep obfuscating and feigning shock.
Yep. I dont disagree. I think there are problems with America involving race don’t get me wrong….but as a Democrat, literally the entire house is in flames and they’re trying to put out the fire on the swing set. It’s not a winning strategy, last night has made that clear.
 
When Biden beat Trump, I thought there's no way Trump would run again, despite his massive ego. I truly believed the Dems would do well enough that Trump would be pushed aside. Now it's apparent the disaster named Biden has let Trump back into the game. Now my only hope is that someone in the GOP steps forward to challenge Trump after the midterms, and beyond.
The next wannabe GOP candidate is hoping Trump has a stroke.
Bigly.
 
LOL...are none of those things happening? Is nobody advocating for those things?

And if those things are not happening, then why can't Democrats say "Of course I'd be opposed to those things if they were happening?"
No, no one is advocating for those things in any meaningful capacity. I am sure some teacher, somewhere, is teaching it to students. Just like I am sure some teacher, somewhere, is teaching students that 9/11 was an inside job or some other inane nonsense.

FFS, the Republican strategist (Christopher Rufo) who is largely responsible for crafting the CRT narrative tweeted out the GOP’s plan earlier this year (which has obviously since been deleted):

“We have successfully frozen their brand - “critical race theory” - into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand.

The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think “Critical Race Theory.” We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: BelemNole
Yep. I dont disagree. I think there are problems with America involving race don’t get me wrong….but as a Democrat, literally the entire house is in flames and they’re trying to put out the fire on the swing set. It’s not a winning strategy, last night has made that clear.
And I'm not even opposed to kids being exposed to the concept of looking at our society through a "race lens." One of the problems with the proponents of these theories and ideologies is that they promote them as THE WAY to view the world. Not just A WAY.


Or we could run with "you're either racist or you're anti-racist."
 
Last edited:
If America were to elect Trump again...would it be worth saving?
a country where a person like Trump is elected twice is a country I want nothing to do with. I already find the majority of people in this country to be insufferable fools and morons, not to mention too many gun loving racist lunatics, but a 2nd Trump term would be the final straw. Democracy and decency would be dead if there was a 2nd Trump term, look at the damage just one term did.
It is a lot of things. Jemele doesn't help any.

is she wrong? the uncomfortable truth is there are a LOT of racist people in this country and the courts, police, banking system, housing market, etc were built with racism in mind. It doesn't just go away. Its sad when white people are offended that people of color are fed up with racism.
 
And I'm not even opposed to kids being exposed to the concept of looking at our society through a "race lens." One of the problems with the way proponents of these theories and ideologies is that they promote them as THE WAY to view the world. Not just A WAY.


Or we could run with "you're either racist or you're anti-racist."
Yeah. And my views on all of this aside….I don’t believe this is the hill we (Democrats) should be dying on right now. The republicans are just going to beat democrats over the head with this, why would they hand them that
 
People ask them this all the time. The thing is, like Nole Lou above - the things they assign to CRT have nothing to do with the actual lesson plans associated with it. It's all fear mongering to make white people, or "legacy Amercians" as Tucker is calling them this week, afraid. And it's clearly working.

I have no idea how the debate unfolded in Virginia since I didn't pay attention to it. The article made the point that the dems campaign dismissed the uproar on the basis of incorrect language usage. That seemed to be an error.

To put it bluntly, so ****ing what that the stuff they're talking about doesn't fit the academic definition of the theory in law schools in the 70s.

The whole point was not to ignore the "stuff"

Beyond that...

I think it's both. Yes, people like Tucker and similar media outlets will play it up for all its worth like any other topic they can find useful.

However, there has been woke nonsense -- or, charitably, debatable stuff - that has made its way into the classroom. (and society at large)

Various non progressive media would track these sort of "woke" movements into the classroom. Fox and Tucker and other would regularly share stories. On twitter you can find feeds that are dedicated to reporting on these sort of stories. I guess I could go find them for you. You won't find them in the Washington Post or NYT or on NPR or whatever.

All of that, apparently, was dumped under the umbrella term CRT over the summer. From there, of course, CRT became a buzzword and something that could be more easily marketed. Plus, it gave a name to the problem of woke incursion into education.
 
I have no idea how the debate unfolded in Virginia since I didn't pay attention to it. The article made the point that the dems campaign dismissed the uproar on the basis of incorrect language usage. That seemed to be an error.

To put it bluntly, so ****ing what that the stuff they're talking about doesn't fit the academic definition of the theory in law schools in the 70s.

The whole point was not to ignore the "stuff"

Beyond that...

I think it's both. Yes, people like Tucker and similar media outlets will play it up for all its worth like any other topic they can find useful.

However, there has been woke nonsense -- or, charitably, debatable stuff - that has made its way into the classroom. (and society at large)

Various non progressive media would track these sort of "woke" movements into the classroom. Fox and Tucker and other would regularly share stories. On twitter you can find feeds that are dedicated to reporting on these sort of stories. I guess I could go find them for you. You won't find them in the Washington Post or NYT or on NPR or whatever.

All of that, apparently, was dumped under the umbrella term CRT over the summer. From there, of course, CRT became a buzzword and something that could be more easily marketed. Plus, it gave a name to the problem of woke incursion into education.

And yes, I'm sure some people are just along for the ride and have no idea what they're angry about when they're angry about CRT. But that's not everybody.

I've been complaining about dumb woke incursion into all kinds of stuff before CRT ever came along.
 
No, no one is advocating for those things in any meaningful capacity. I am sure some teacher, somewhere, is teaching it to students. Just like I am sure some teacher, somewhere, is teaching students that 9/11 was an inside job or some other inane nonsense.

FFS, the Republican strategist (Christopher Rufo) who is largely responsible for crafting the CRT narrative tweeted out the GOP’s plan earlier this year (which has obviously since been deleted):

“We have successfully frozen their brand - “critical race theory” - into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand.

The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think “Critical Race Theory.” We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans.”

Yes, I've seen that quote. I have not advocated for the idea that "CRT" is being used by the dictionary definition.

I fully acknowledge that opponents of a wide range of unpopular CRT and Anti-Racist and "Equity" initiatives have successfully branded those under a label of "CRT."

Just like opponents of capitalism or tax cuts or standardized tests have labelled them as "whiteness" or "white supremacy." It's typical activism 101.

The "cultural insanities" as the quote calls them are part of the discourse now. Democrats either need to disavow them, or defend them.

"You're calling them the wrong thing" is not an effective response.

Any more than it's an effective defense against Jan 6 criticism to say "It's not technically an insurrection. There was no 'insurrection' on Jan. 6, it's all in your head." What happened happened, whether it was an insurrection or a riot. Disputing the name doesn't make it go away.
 
I have no idea how the debate unfolded in Virginia since I didn't pay attention to it. The article made the point that the dems campaign dismissed the uproar on the basis of incorrect language usage. That seemed to be an error.

To put it bluntly, so ****ing what that the stuff they're talking about doesn't fit the academic definition of the theory in law schools in the 70s.

The whole point was not to ignore the "stuff"

Beyond that...

I think it's both. Yes, people like Tucker and similar media outlets will play it up for all its worth like any other topic they can find useful.

However, there has been woke nonsense -- or, charitably, debatable stuff - that has made its way into the classroom. (and society at large)

Various non progressive media would track these sort of "woke" movements into the classroom. Fox and Tucker and other would regularly share stories. On twitter you can find feeds that are dedicated to reporting on these sort of stories. I guess I could go find them for you. You won't find them in the Washington Post or NYT or on NPR or whatever.

All of that, apparently, was dumped under the umbrella term CRT over the summer. From there, of course, CRT became a buzzword and something that could be more easily marketed. Plus, it gave a name to the problem of woke incursion into education.
Your solution is to play into their propaganda?
Any time there's something the right doesn't like and they make up lies about it the left should spend time an energy explaining that it's all a big lie as usual?
 
The problem with this list, besides the actual frequency of any of it actually happening, is that it conflates numerous issues in education. Some of them would fall under the content of what is taught, which is where CRT falls. Many of the others fall under school policy, which is typically decided by non-educators and lawmakers. Grad rate requirements, attendance policy, classes offered, grading practices all fall well outside what CRT is or has ever been purported to be.

So by lumping them all into "CRT" the right is able to avoid any nuanced conversation about specific issues and simply attack institutions it disagrees with (fake new, liberal indoctrination, scientific consensus etc).
This is correct.

ANYTHING they don't like becomes some "form" of CRT.
It's why engaging them on it is fruitless. Their concerns ARE imaginary. And their smorgasbord version of "CRT" is the imaginary "bogeyman".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huey Grey
Yes, I've seen that quote. I have not advocated for the idea that "CRT" is being used by the dictionary definition.

I fully acknowledge that opponents of a wide range of unpopular CRT and Anti-Racist and "Equity" initiatives have successfully branded those under a label of "CRT."

Just like opponents of capitalism or tax cuts or standardized tests have labelled them as "whiteness" or "white supremacy." It's typical activism 101.

The "cultural insanities" as the quote calls them are part of the discourse now. Democrats either need to disavow them, or defend them.

"You're calling them the wrong thing" is not an effective response.

Any more than it's an effective defense against Jan 6 criticism to say "It's not technically an insurrection. There was no 'insurrection' on Jan. 6, it's all in your head." What happened happened, whether it was an insurrection or a riot. Disputing the name doesn't make it go away.
You completely missed the point of my post. None of the shit you posted above is happening. There is no organized effort to teach any of that stuff to kids.

Sure, there are isolated instances of it being taught - because there are 300 million people in this country, and every day some teacher somewhere is teaching something dumb or crazy to their students.

The only difference is that now we have a scary new term for the dumb stuff the liberal teachers say (CRITICAL RACE THEORY!!!!) because Republicans have spent the last 12 months doing exactly what the quote above says they were going to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huey Grey
Your solution is to play into their propaganda?
Any time there's something the right doesn't like and they make up lies about it the left should spend time an energy explaining that it's all a big lie as usual?
Actually, you kind of have to engage because the GOP has primed itself to be in control of the majority (30) of state legislative branches. So they can pass a lot of bullshit laws banning the teaching of CRT in public schools--even though it's not being taught in public schools. But Joe "No Education" Smith and Karen "I'm on Twitter" Smith read about the law passing and believe that it's a real thing -- because the government wouldn't pass a law for a made up problem.
 
Actually, you kind of have to engage because the GOP has primed itself to be in control of the majority (30) of state legislative branches. So they can pass a lot of bullshit laws banning the teaching of CRT in public schools--even though it's not being taught in public schools. But Joe "No Education" Smith and Karen "I'm on Twitter" Smith read about the law passing and believe that it's a real thing -- because the government wouldn't pass a law for a made up problem.
Can't win on actual issues so make up bullshit issues - new motto of the GOP.
 
You have to hand it to the Republicans, they do come up with some "biggie" issues that fire up their base. This year's dandies include CRT, wokeness, mask wearing, dismissal of January 6th, and refusal to accept Covid vaccination mandates!
 
Your solution is to play into their propaganda?
Any time there's something the right doesn't like and they make up lies about it the left should spend time an energy explaining that it's all a big lie as usual?

How is asking them what they are seeing that is so problematic playing into their propaganda? That's all I'm claiming should have been done by the VA gov dem nominee. You can address it in a way that actually challenges the claims.

And no, I don't think all the concern behind CRT here is propaganda or baseless, anyway. (I believe it was based on, largely, pointing out different bits of woke incursion into education and society)

I think the "big lie" here would be the actual threat posed by the woke shit that makes up the bulk of the CRT concerns. That's what I would challenge them on. (but other than CRT being slung around a bunch, I don't understand much about the specifics of what they're arguing about.
 
You have to hand it to the Republicans, they do come up with some "biggie" issues that fire up their base. This year's dandies include CRT, wokeness, mask wearing, dismissal of January 6th, and refusal to accept Covid vaccination mandates!

Eh, you have the left that won't shut up about woke shit. You can't push a topic and then bitch that people care to respond. Yeah, I agree that it's an over-valued topic all the way around. I wish we didn't spend so much time on that stuff. That's both sides though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LetsGoHawks83
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT