The hill just got steeper

[Omahahawk86]

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39526-nick-nevills-may-be-back-soon-for-psu

He could come back too soon and go 0-2 at big tens or maybe he's in great shape and will challenge for AA.

Or it's all crap and he gets a med redshirt...either way it's something to talk about.

 

[Mike_a_TetonValley]

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39526-nick-nevills-may-be-back-soon-for-psu

He could come back too soon and go 0-2 at big tens or maybe he's in great shape and will challenge for AA.

Or it's all crap and he gets a med redshirt...either way it's something to talk about.

Hwt is pretty loaded. The G, Snyder, Coon, Mardsen, Stoll, Kroells, etc. Better then what they have right now at that weight, but I don't see him placing at the NCCAs. Go Hawks!!!

 

[MSU158]

Unless they are 100% positive Nevills won't qualify for a medical hardship, putting him out there is a big mistake. He can't get seeded at B1Gs, has to steal a qualifier spot when Snyder also has to steal one, and won't be eligible for an At Large Bid. Essentially he has to place ahead of at least two of the following guys to qualify: Coon, Snyder, Stoll, Kroells, Jensen, Smith and Black.

The hardest part of the above is that he will most likely get drawn into one of them 1st round and if he loses will have to wrestle back to get there. He really won't have much margin for error.

I honestly think it may be harder for him to qualify than it would be for him to AA!

 

[FineMaterial]

4 more years is a long time, anything could happen. If he has any chance to add points at nationals you go for it. If they would lose nationals by a point while thinking about 2021 that would be trey stupid. Everyone's favorite coach has said the same thing. Besides, his brother is on the way to fill the hole.

 

[Onceafish]

Unless they are 100% positive Nevills won't qualify for a medical hardship, putting him out there is a big mistake. He can't get seeded at B1Gs, has to steal a qualifier spot when Snyder also has to steal one, and won't be eligible for an At Large Bid. Essentially he has to place ahead of at least two of the following guys to qualify: Coon, Snyder, Stoll, Kroells, Jensen, Smith and Black.

The hardest part of the above is that he will most likely get drawn into one of them 1st round and if he loses will have to wrestle back to get there. He really won't have much margin for error.

I honestly think it may be harder for him to qualify than it would be for him to AA!

The same humble prognosticator who brought us "Nolf is good but Martinez is great," "Conaway just isn't the same wrestler at 133" and "Retherford hasn't wrestled anybody good and won't be able to keep it even remotely close in his first matchup with Logan Stieber" now tells us the Nevills return is a "big mistake" by Penn State. So rest easy, fans of other teams.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Pretty impressive that PSU has steamrolled everyone the way they have without him. I know that much.

 

[McCulloughd]

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/39526-nick-nevills-may-be-back-soon-for-psu

He could come back too soon and go 0-2 at big tens or maybe he's in great shape and will challenge for AA.

Or it's all crap and he gets a med redshirt...either way it's something to talk about.

It's nothing to talk about. I don't give a damn about penn state.

 

[mike tognetti]

Reading the heading of the thread, I thought for sure you were talking about OSU and Nolan Boyd instead of that start up program PSU.

 

[wasdt21]

where you been mike, I've missed you. if nevallis is ready get him out there, but i'm betting he is not 100.

 

[goiahawkeyes]

He'll likely be unseeded at B1G's and will face a Coon, Snyder, Stoll, Smith in the first round or two and then has a hell of a road on the backside. I'm not too worried about this. If he qualifies for NCAA's he's going to be in the same position unless he wins B1G's...which he won't.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

I agree with MSU. I wouldnt waste this kids season this late in the game unless its clear he wont get the medical. PSU doesnt need him or his few points at nationals at all.

I hope Cael wrestles him and gets that eligibilty clock going because id easily trade this year for a back end one. . He has no chance at any decent seeding. Even if he gets 3rd in the bigs his lack of matches is going to just destroy his NCAA seedings.

Really as Iowa fans we should be thrilled that JoJo got his shirt taken away and that Cael is likely doing this!

Another example of Cael thinking of himself and winning above all else. No way can this be best for the kid or the team but doesnt matter because Caels ego is saying I will just over recruit when it comes back t That PSU team is loaded with deep horses, its just fine with no qualifier at HWT. Burn away Cael, Burn away. That big caveman dummy is going to win the title anyway. hahahahaha

 

[James P. Whitters III]

If he places top 6 he will qualify would be my best guess. The guy is one heck of a talent, so if healthy, that is likely. If the Nebraska HWT. is out with injury that might remove one AQ spot from the conference which will make his rod tougher.

 

[edquinn06]

He's going to wrestle. PSU wants him off the books by the time Gable Steveson graduates.

 

[DonHawkeye]

I am glad they are not trying for a Medical Redshirt. Get this group of kids out of there ASAP.

I mean if he can sit out for most of the last year with 2 different injuries and come in and place than good for him and PSU. They have gotten a complete stud and there will be 4 horses for the next 2 (Rutherford) / 3 years that will be a tall order to knock off.

I know he is a good HWT but don't expect a lot out of him with this much time away from hard wrestling.

Last year at this time I wasn't sure about our guy against him. Now I am thinking Stoll will be a bad matchup for a healthy Nevills

 

[Ihawkd9times]

If he places top 6 he will qualify would be my best guess. The guy is one heck of a talent, so if healthy, that is likely. If the Nebraska HWT. is out with injury that might remove one AQ spot from the conference which will make his rod tougher.

But a win over Billy Smith or even Stoll (which dont think would happen due to rust) wont really matter. The lack of matches will completely over ride his seeding and likely have him vs Gwiz/ Coon/ Snyder type in 2nd round at best.

Same goes for Brody. He literally has to make the big ten finals to even sniff say a 10 seed at best.

But burn away. Im anxoius to see Nevills wrestle. This is like saying we needed Chad Beatty to win in omaha. PSU has the firpower to sit him.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

He's going to wrestle. PSU wants him off the books by the time Gable Steveson graduates.

Bam, I didnt think that way. But you are 100% correct. Thats exactly how Cael works. Because giving him this year on the backend may keep Gable away. When your a world champ, why ride the bench or even listen to that scenerio. Plus he needs to try and match up Hall and Gable coming in at the same time. Which really is brillant on Caels end. you lose Taylor, Ruth and then bring in Nolf, Zain, lose those 2 and reload with Hall, Stevenson. Cael really does get the 2-3 complete automatic studs eqaul team titles.

All about deep horses anymore. two guys get you 50 team points the minute they walk off the bus is priceless. Halfway to 100 and all the other 8 guys have to do is get about 60-65. So much easier than 10 guys geting 12 points a piece.

To clarify deep horses are not so much a Sorenson who may make the finals but will likely need an OT decision in the semis. A deep horse is the handful of kids a decade who are scoring bonus point in the semis vs the #4 ranked kid. Just the get out of the way automatic Metcalf, Taylor, Ruth types. Gilamn and Clark have a chance but neither seem like the toranados that Zain and Nolf will be. That said Gilman is the one to bet the house on a NCAA tile if anyone from our team.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I agree with MSU. I wouldnt waste this kids season this late in the game unless its clear he wont get the medical. PSU doesnt need him or his few points at nationals at all.

I hope Cael wrestles him and gets that eligibilty clock going because id easily trade this year for a back end one. . He has no chance at any decent seeding. Even if he gets 3rd in the bigs his lack of matches is going to just destroy his NCAA seedings.

Really as Iowa fans we should be thrilled that JoJo got his shirt taken away and that Cael is likely doing this!

Another example of Cael thinking of himself and winning above all else. No way can this be best for the kid or the team. That PSU team is loaded with deep horses, its just fine with no qualifier at HWT. Burn away Cael, Burn away.

Cael has so much talent coming in he is hardly in the position to worry about saving years on guys.

But a win over Billy Smith or even Stoll (which dont think would happen due to rust) wont really matter. The lack of matches will completely over ride his seeding and likely have him vs Gwiz/ Coon/ Snyder type in 2nd round at best.

Same goes for Brody. He literally has to make the big ten finals to even sniff say a 10 seed at best.

But burn away. Im anxoius to see Nevills wrestle. This is like saying we needed Chad Beatty to win in omaha. PSU has the firpower to sit him.

I pretty much agree. Like Brody he will have an uphill climb to AA, but stranger things have happened. PSU has so many weapons in the pipeline they can afford to waste some here and some there. I also wouldn't discount wrestling head to head against Cael in practice. Cael is on record talking about using old man tricks to wrestle him. I believe Eric Thompson is still out there working out too. Throw in Varner and he has guys to get him ready.

 

[ping72]

You guys are ragging on Cael, but put yourself in Nevill's shoes. Would/could you sit knowing you may be the difference between a national championship or not? Especially if you're healthy enough to give it a go? Would you be able to do that to your teammates?

I think Cael's toughest job would be telling the kid he couldn't wrestle.

 

[MARION_HAWK]

Stoll will beat whoever PSU puts out there...this year and the rest of his career.
Go Hawks!

 

[DonHawkeye]

Cael is on record talking about using old man tricks to wrestle him.

Cause I am sure Cael is going full bore on him and would never use this type of speak to build up his wrestler.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Cause I am sure Cael is going full bore on him and would never use this type of speak to build up his wrestler.

This was speaking more to as whether he would be battle tested.

 

[Lionfan44]

Something else to consider – there is a kid by the name of Seth Nevills who is currently the undefeated, number one ranked heavyweight in California as a sophomore. He was an undefeated champion last year at 220 pounds. Maybe Cael isn't too worried about losing time in the the backend of Nick's career.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

You guys are ragging on Cael, but put yourself in Nevill's shoes. Would/could you sit knowing you may be the difference between a national championship or not? Especially if you're healthy enough to give it a go? Would you be able to do that to your teammates?

I think Cael's toughest job would be telling the kid he couldn't wrestle.

Fair point, but Cael had no problem convincing Nico and Zain to sit out last season. I do not believe for one second Nevill's will be have anything to do with deciding the team race. The team race will come down to can the Iowa guy outplace the PSU guy at 125/133/149/174/184/197. And even if we win 125/133/184 we still lose 149/174/197 (so we split). we have nothing to account for Nolf's extra 20-25 say points. What ever Stoll gets for us is likely washed out by whichever 165 PSU sends out. Thats the ball game my friend! They have that extra deep horse, Nolf, is a weight we dont have jack at. Cooper isnt going to even sniff the round of 12. Lets be real.

 

[Azchief32]

Last year we made fun of Cael for holding guys back, now he is all in. At worst, Nevilles is a 2-2 guy coming back, at best an AA. Still those two wins can make a difference. Kudos to them...just hope it doesn't backfire with another injury.

 

[MVPFAN]

Guys just can't take a medical anyway. Nevills would need to be legitimately too hurt to compete still and verified by medical personnel. If he is cleared to go it is expected he should be able to go vs just deciding I don't feel like wrestling this year. He is on the clock and there are no guarantees on getting an extra year, especially if he is cleared to go now.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Something else to consider – there is a kid by the name of Seth Nevills who is currently the undefeated, number one ranked heavyweight in California as a sophomore. He was an undefeated champion last year at 220 pounds. Maybe Cael isn't too worried about losing time in the the backend of Nick's career.

Dont kid yourself. Seth is a backup plan incase they dont get Gable. Seth will likely get the Tommy Haines if Gable comes a board. Seth may stay but it will be for pennies. Just wait for it.

Then again maybe Gable really isnt into PSU?

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Guys just can't take a medical anyway. Nevills would need to be legitimately too hurt to compete still and verified by medical personnel. If he is cleared to go it is expected he should be able to go vs just deciding I don't feel like wrestling this year. He is on the clock and there are no guarantees on getting an extra year, especially if he is cleared to go now.

No but they pretty much gets these at will if they didnt compete in too many matches. He wouldnt know until after but, he would get it. He is the perfect case for it.

 

[MVPFAN]

No but they pretty much gets these at will if they didnt compete in too many matches. He wouldnt know until after but, he would get it. He is the perfect case for it.

I agree if he was still legit too hurt to wrestle this year he would have a good case given he got hurt half way through last year, however if he is cleared to go the NCAA expects him to go. To be counted as an injury year the injury must be season ending. If Nevils is now cleared to go it is not season ending.

 

[Lionfan44]

Dont kid yourself. Seth is a backup plan incase they dont get Gable. Seth will likely get the Tommy Haines if Gable comes a board. Seth may stay but it will be for pennies. Just wait for it.

Then again maybe Gable really isnt into PSU?

I can't speak to Gable's situation or intention, but Seth isn't a bad back up plan.

 

[hoythawk]

I wonder how Nico's knee is doing. He was limping pretty bad after his match with Tomasello.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

I can't speak to Gable's situation or intention, but Seth isn't a bad back up plan.

not yet because Gable hasnt commited. Haines never fanced himself a backup either!

What do you think would happen if Gable did commit? That Cael is going to spend that much for 2 elite heavies? No way, he has too much money locked up in the other 9.

Thing is like Mejia or Renteria, I dont think they could even talk money as soph's. They just committed and worry about that later. My guess is Seth will be on the cheap. It will be interesting. Caels got some nice problems but serious choices will be made by the kids. We already went over the whole Rasheed/ over booking the middle weights thing. That saga starts next year.

 

[MSU158]

Onceafish,

It's always easy to cherry pick results after the fact.

1.) I would say that the vast majority agreed with me before Nolf and Martinez wrestled. I would still say a ton believe Martinez wins the next go around as well. Nothing Nolf had done to date had made him look to be at Martinez's level. However, if he wins again he deserves the "great" moniker.

2.)I still stand 100% behind my Conaway comment. Who has he beat this year? DiCamillo at the last second? At 125, he is an AA favorite. At 133, he needs a good draw to have a chance. To me that is a difference.

3.)Hat's off to Retherford for the first match, but it is pretty widely agreed upon that Stieber wasn't well their first go around. Also, Stieber pretty much proved that with two decisive victories over Retherford that same season.

Honestly, I was thinking what is best for Nevills. You want him out there I wouldn't try to stop you. If you don't think it will be hard for him to finish top 6(maybe even top 5 due to Jensen's injury) without a seed, you don't know B1G wrestling.

 

[Lionfan44]

not yet because Gable hasnt commited. Haines never fanced himself a backup either!

What do you think would happen if Gable did commit? That Cael is going to spend that much for 2 elite heavies? No way, he has too much money locked up in the other 9.

Thing is like Mejia or Renteria, I dont think they could even talk money as soph's. They just committed and worry about that later. My guess is Seth will be on the cheap. It will be interesting. Caels got some nice problems but serious choices will be made by the kids. We already went over the whole Rasheed/ over booking the middle weights thing. That saga starts next year.

What would Seth do if Gable committed? Great question-I have no real personal knowledge to answer that. But, as you know, sometimes it isn't all about the $$ (some families don't need to make that a top priority) but more about the chance to be "the guy".

I don't think these guys have ever run into each other so I don't know how each of them would assess their chances of being "the guy". Most top recuits have enough confidence to think they will start and go where they want that to happen. But, with all of the other considerations for $$ with non-hwt recruits,, I agree that if that is an issue when Cael looks at both of them, he will have to make a choice like he did with Haines. BTW, for those who may care, it looks like Haines has found a home at Lock Haven.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

What would Seth do if Gable committed? Great question-I have no real personal knowledge to answer that. But, as you know, sometimes it isn't all about the $$ (some families don't need to make that a top priority) but more about the chance to be "the guy".

I don't think these guys have ever run into each other so I don't know how each of them would assess their chances of being "the guy". Most top recuits have enough confidence to think they will start and go where they want that to happen. But, with all of the other considerations for $$ with non-hwt recruits,, I agree that if that is an issue when Cael looks at both of them, he will have to make a choice like he did with Haines. BTW, for those who may care, it looks like Haines has found a home at Lock Haven.

fair enough. good talk. Regardless Cael cant be talking money with either at this point so its just a fun debate. Maybe the Nevills are well off financialy but still you dont pay to wath your kid sit on the bench when he can start about anywhere else for good money. We can agree on that right?


I guess id have to see the PSU, blueprint for world domination yearly strategies and see how the Nevills Brother overlap each other and if big bro makes lil bro sit at all? Id look it up but pSU fan will be along soon enough to explain the years to me.?

 

[Gusaford]

The same humble prognosticator who brought us "Nolf is good but Martinez is great," "Conaway just isn't the same wrestler at 133" and "Retherford hasn't wrestled anybody good and won't be able to keep it even remotely close in his first matchup with Logan Stieber" now tells us the Nevills return is a "big mistake" by Penn State. So rest easy, fans of other teams.

Wow. You've been waiting for more than two years to tweak MSU about his prediction that Retherford wouldn't beat Stieber in their first of three matches two seasons ago? I don't know whether to be impressed by your memory or to be concerned about MSU's safety.

 

[Lionfan44]

fair enough. good talk. Regardless Cael cant be talking money with either at this point so its just a fun debate. Maybe the Nevills are well off financialy but still you dont pay to wath your kid sit on the bench when he can start about anywhere else for good money. We can agree on that right?

Absolutely! Can't speak for the Nevills but I don't think I would want to pay for that "privilege"!


I guess id have to see the PSU, blueprint for world domination yearly strategies and see how the Nevills Brother overlap each other and if big bro makes lil bro sit at all? Id look it up but pSU fan will be along soon enough to explain the years to me.?

Absolutely! Can't speak for the Nevills but I don't think I would want to pay for that "privilege"!

Sorry I can't show you the blueprint--Cael made me promise to keep it under wraps until we get to at least 26 championships! And, at my age, I'm not sure i'll be able to read it by then!

I'm' going to be lazy and give you a copy and paste from a CA newspaper:

At Clovis High School, there are two remaining Nevills on the varsity team, A.J. and, Seth. A.J. has placed twice in the CIF state tournament (2nd and 7th) at 182 pounds. He will be a senior next season and one of the favorites to win a state title; he has amassed an overall career record of 125-29. (My note-AJ has committed to PSU, recently cut from 220 to 197 and is a senior)

The youngest of the four siblings is Seth. Seth finished his freshman season undefeated with a 44-0 record at 220 pounds. He became the third freshman from Clovis to win a state title and the second to finish undefeated in his initial wrestling season. Don’t be surprised to see A.J. win a state title at 195-pounds and Seth at 285-pounds next season. (My note: Seth is now a soph and is at 285)

Good chat--thanks for your time..........

 

[BDB57]

Reading the heading of the thread, I thought for sure you were talking about OSU and Nolan Boyd instead of that start up program PSU.

Mike your just the guy I was hoping to bump in to. I noticed Chandler Rodgers wrestled in the Cornell dual, is Crutchmer injured??

 

[april racer]

Mike your just the guy I was hoping to bump in to. I noticed Chandler Rodgers wrestled in the Cornell dual, is Crutchmer injured??

Crutchmer got hurt Friday in the dual v OU. Waiting to hear how he is.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Reading the heading of the thread, I thought for sure you were talking about OSU and Nolan Boyd instead of that start up program PSU.

I'm pretty sure that's what Woolworth's calls Amazon.com.

 

[Allensville Amos]

Onceafish,

It's always easy to cherry pick results after the fact.

1.) I would say that the vast majority agreed with me before Nolf and Martinez wrestled. I would still say a ton believe Martinez wins the next go around as well. Nothing Nolf had done to date had made him look to be at Martinez's level. However, if he wins again he deserves the "great" moniker.

2.)I still stand 100% behind my Conaway comment. Who has he beat this year? DiCamillo at the last second? At 125, he is an AA favorite. At 133, he needs a good draw to have a chance. To me that is a difference.

3.)Hat's off to Retherford for the first match, but it is pretty widely agreed upon that Stieber wasn't well their first go around. Also, Stieber pretty much proved that with two decisive victories over Retherford that same season.

Honestly, I was thinking what is best for Nevills. You want him out there I wouldn't try to stop you. If you don't think it will be hard for him to finish top 6(maybe even top 5 due to Jensen's injury) without a seed, you don't know B1G wrestling.

If those were just Cherry picked results, what are some that you were spot on about PSU wrestlers?

1.)So what is your prediction for Martinez vs Nolf 2? Looked to me like Nolf is a bad match-up for IMar, just doesn't look like he has the gas tank to keep up with Nolf for a full 7 but we will see. IMar was able to beat Green by riding him, he's not going to ride Nolf.

2.) Conaway was round of 12 in 2013 when he last went at 33, do you really think he hasn't improved since then? The field at 33 is solid this year but not as good as 2013 when Stieber beat Ramos yet again, also last years champ Brewer was 7th in 13.

3.) Stieber wasn't well in the first match with Retherford only after getting ridden like a rented mule during the entire 2nd period. If LS was just sick in the first meeting with ZR, why did he chose neutral in the subsequent matches? Why not show everyone he was just ill the first time, why not show he could get out from bottom? I'll hand it to LS and to Ryan, they were smart enough to avoid those words made famous by Frank Molinaro, "I chose down", and it worked.

MSU158, I have read many of your posts on this board and on The Mat and consider you a very knowledgeable wrestling fan. Having said that, it appears to me that some PSU fans over on The Mat have got your goat so much so that your analysis of just about everything PSU wrestling is mostly flawed and negative.

As far as Nevills, I believe CS said in an interview that the decision to wrestle or not was up to Nick, and that he was talking it over with his family. This is hardly just a wrestling decision, some people don't want to attend college for 6 years. How good will he be if he wrestles, we may get a chance to find out. I wouldn't expect him to be able to beat Coon or Snyder, but it would be surprising to me if he wasn't competitive with guys like Stoll, Smith, Kroells and Black.