The Reality of Iowa Defense

[jonesy5960]

No one is disputing this, what you're failing to understand is that in your example Michigan knows Alabama can score whereas Iowa could not. This completely changes how an offensive gameplan is designed. Teams are forced to throw the ball and put up points against someone like Alabama, they do not vs Iowa.

But you are disputing it. You're arguing against every metric and statistic, many of which are adjusted for the strength of the opposing offense, that the success of the defense has been a reflection of the opponents they faced rather than the quality of the defense itself.

Your claim that Iowa's defense hasn't been elite over the last several years, because very good offenses have scored on them is silly. Look at this year's bowl games. Apparently a lot of very good defenses were only good because of who they faced. PSU, Oregon, and Tennessee were all top 10 defenses this year. By your logic it was all mirage because they gave up an average of 42 points in their bowl games. It's just a dumb assumption.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

The writing was on the wall when we were in on several portal dbs last season, but missed out on all of them. Parker wasn't comfortable with what he had coming back. We also rely on getting pressure from the front four and that was almost nonexistent this season. There was a time where 19 points meant Iowa would win. You can’t always count on that, but if that held true we would have only lost two games this season. Unless the offense dramatically improves, we will need an exceptional defense to do much better than 6-8 wins in a season. That’s proven over the last 25 years.

 

[Hawgk]

But you are disputing it. You're arguing against every metric and statistic, many of which are adjusted for the strength of the opposing offense, that the success of the defense has been a reflection of the opponents they faced rather than the quality of the defense itself.

Your claim that Iowa's defense hasn't been elite over the last several years, because very good offenses have scored on them is silly. Look at this year's bowl games. Apparently a lot of very good defenses were only good because of who they faced. PSU, Oregon, and Tennessee were all top 10 offenses this year. By your logic it was all mirage because they gave up an average of 42 points in their bowl games. It's just a dumb assumption.

You clearly don’t understand the “raw data” he posted earlier.

😂

 

[Iafootballfan]

Besides the game yesterday Iowa has held the other 3 teams to less then their season avg for ypp.

Fair post, quoting just a portion of it. Do you believe opponent offenses change their gameplan knowing 20 points likely wins versus Iowa opposed to needing 30 against a team with a good offense?

 

[Hawgk]

Fair post, quoting just a portion of it. Do you believe opponent offenses change their gameplan knowing 20 points likely wins versus Iowa opposed to needing 30 against a team with a good offense?

This is awesome! Now comes the part where he tells us Iowa’s defense isn’t good because opponents “don’t try as hard” against Iowa.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

This thread is ridiculous. Look at all of our 2-3 star players that are playing in the pros, especially the back line guys. Zero of those guys were highly recruited guys. And the majority of them can hit as well as cover. And for the white guys like Moss and DeJean, they're the only starting white corners in the NFL in what, the last 20 years? I think some of you are overreacting to some things this year. We held Mizzou to 2.7 yards per rush yesterday. Normally that's a winning formula but I do think Phil needs to reexamine his 3rd down defense. Way to many easy 3rd down conversions yesterday and overall this season. 3rd and long should be a way bigger % for your defense to get off the field. Against the better teams, and especially better QB's, you can't expect these teams to make mistakes like Big Ten West teams and QB's.

You can have very good/great individual players but an average unit. Look at the Linderbaum offensive line.
We have diamonds in the rough, so to speak.

 

[Iafootballfan]

But you are disputing it. You're arguing against every metric and statistic, many of which are adjusted for the strength of the opposing offense, that the success of the defense has been a reflection of the opponents they faced rather than the quality of the defense itself.

Your claim that Iowa's defense hasn't been elite over the last several years, because very good offenses have scored on them is silly. Look at this year's bowl games. Apparently a lot of very good defenses were only good because of who they faced. PSU, Oregon, and Tennessee were all top 10 offenses this year. By your logic it was all mirage because they gave up an average of 42 points in their bowl games. It's just a dumb assumption.

I'm arguing the computer does not have the ability to accurate adjust the rankings as much as you say they do. You just said 2023 Iowa defense was better than Alabama's, who had the best coach in CFB history and 9 NFL players on it. If you actually believe that then there's nothing that would change your mind.

 

[jonesy5960]

I'm arguing the computer does not have the ability to accurate adjust the rankings as much as you say they do. You just said 2023 Iowa defense was better than Alabama's, who had the best coach in CFB history and 9 NFL players on it. If you actually believe that then there's nothing that would change your mind.

No. You won't. I'll go with statistics and metrics that are generated by literally dozens of relevant variables as opposed to your gut or your feelings. Talent doesn't always dictate results. If it did, Texas would have a lot of national championships and won a whole lot more games over the last 20 years. Iowa has perhaps the best DC in college football. They certainly don't have the talent of an Alabama or a Michigan, but they have placed a lot of defensive players in the league over the last 5 years.

 

[herk u2]

Fair post, quoting just a portion of it. Do you believe opponent offenses change their gameplan knowing 20 points likely wins versus Iowa opposed to needing 30 against a team with a good offense?

It's not as simple as a yes or no. Most teams script the first 10-15 plays to start a game. Now they base their plays/ game plan they want to run on what they can exploit in a defense from watching film. The coaches I've spoke to want to score every possession no matter who they play.
The game plan changes during the game based on the score and time left obviously. Some coaches want to put the foot on the throat and others want to burn clock. It's just a personal preference for that individual coach.
Teams generally don't get conservative in the 1st half not even with how bad Iowas offense has been, 2nd half or just the 4th quarter yes knowing they have trouble scoring run the clock out and take away possessions from them.
Then there is the possibility of Iowa gets a turnover or just has a good offensive game. While the good offensive game probably wouldn't happen you wouldn't want to be Harbaugh or Day losing to Iowa bc you thought scoring 14-21 was enough.

 

[uihawk82]

Bob Sanders or Quinn Schulte?



'Nuff said

Sean Considine was fast and really good

 

[littlez]

Sean Considine was fast and really good

As was Tyler Sash.

 

[MitchLL]

I didnt know Merriweather, Stone, and a few other guys like Belton and what's his name that escapes me right now who picked off that first pass against OSU in 2017 were local white guys. But I get your meaning. Maybe Schulte was very good also pre-snap yelling out coverages to other players which I saw him do a lot of when I was at games.

Actually....I think Schulte was yelling..."Who am I supposed to cover"?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

While this is true, you would then also have to factor in that Iowa defensive metrics have been going up against bad QB's in the Big 10 West for years. It goes both ways and likely evens out for the most part. Example: What recent QB have we played against in our division that went on to the NFL? 0?

Do you know how many QB's make the NFL each year? Maybe 5?

Everyone bangs on the B1G West. Well the mighty B1G East had 3 excellent teams - OSU, Mich & PSU. The rest of the division is the same as the B1G West.

Look around CF. Each year there are about a handful of powerhouse teams and another dozen really good teams - and that group pretty much stays the same year in and year out. So, that's maybe 15 teams. Maybe 20.

The rest of CF is the B1G West.

No, the B1G West was not a powerhouse league. But they were also not a bunch of chumps like so many seem to think.

 

[Iafootballfan]

Do you know how many QB's make the NFL each year? Maybe 5?

Everyone bangs on the B1G West. Well the mighty B1G East had 3 excellent teams - OSU, Mich & PSU. The rest of the division is the same as the B1G West.

Look around CF. Each year there are about a handful of powerhouse teams and another dozen really good teams - and that group pretty much stays the same year in and year out. So, that's maybe 15 teams. Maybe 20.

The rest of CF is the B1G West.

No, the B1G West was not a powerhouse league. But they were also not a bunch of chumps like so many seem to think.

The B1G West was rated one of the worst P5 divisions per Massey last season.

 

[jerbob36]

The good teams and coordinators have figured out our defense. Yep, we didn't have great DBs (but weren't they basically the same - Coop from last year??) but to me it's a matter of predictability.

There are certain plays and formations that are just going to allow a team to get yards and move the ball if they have a solid QB.
How many 10 play/75 yard, 12 play/80 yard drives have we given up against good teams?

The decision to bring zero pressure against a top QB with all of the holes we were showing is confusing.

 

[jonesy5960]

Exhibit A was the CCG last year against Michigan. D played well IMO but the offense did absolutely nothing in addition to truning the ball over.

The defense really only gave up 3 points in that game. The offense gave up the rest in a spectacularly bad performance.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Do you know how many QB's make the NFL each year? Maybe 5?

Everyone bangs on the B1G West. Well the mighty B1G East had 3 excellent teams - OSU, Mich & PSU. The rest of the division is the same as the B1G West.

Look around CF. Each year there are about a handful of powerhouse teams and another dozen really good teams - and that group pretty much stays the same year in and year out. So, that's maybe 15 teams. Maybe 20.

The rest of CF is the B1G West.

No, the B1G West was not a powerhouse league. But they were also not a bunch of chumps like so many seem to think.

West….
Zero national championships
Zero playoff wins
Zero playoff appearances
Zero Big Ten Championship game wins. Combine score 352-145

That’s what it was, the truth cannot be controversial.

 

[IowaHawk1994]

I see posts all over this board referring to our defense as elite, top 10, etc. and I just wasn't sure how true that was or if it is a faux due to poor strength of schedule. I looked back at the last 4 seasons for games only against ranked opponents, here is what I found for comparison with our peers and supposed top defenses:

Georgia: 24 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 17
Bama: 23 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 23
Texas: 22 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 25
Penn St: 18 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 24
Ohio St: 17 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 26
Iowa State: 16 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 31

Iowa: 9 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 33

Our defense does not perform at the level the narrative about our program seems to be and also shows quite a bit weaker schedule. My conclusion is that we have been riding a false narrative for years due to the Big 10 west.

It was all made up BS … always had been. Can only stop bad teams with bad QBs and usually only at home. Had no chance vs decent teams with decent qbs and now will lose to decent QBs in bad teams see UCLA and Sparty.
Any defense with such shitty safetys the last 3 years is not good.
The Elite D always has been BULLSHIT.

 

[IowaHawk1994]

The defense was not elite or top 10 this year, but the last few years it has been. In those 9 games against ranked opponents (at least the ones before 2024), take a look at time of possession or other offensive metrics. You'll see they were pitiful.

No defense can remain on the field for that long without surrendering some points.

For example, the 2023 B1G Championship game against Michigan, the National Champ. It was 26-0.

Look a little deeper and you'll see that Michigan had 213 total yards. You'll see Iowa had 3 turnovers and 155 yards. One of Michigan's TDs came after they ran a punt back inside the 5 yard line. Michigan had the ball for 13 minutes more than the Hawks - close to an entire quarter.

Michigan had 351 yards against Bama in the NC game.

Iowa has had an excellent defense in several years before this one. But they needed some help from the offense.

Michigan had little interest in that easy win vs Iowa last year … they scored a TD and cruised knowing the game was over. It was actually over when it was scheduled.

 

[jonesy5960]

This thread is ridiculous. Look at all of our 2-3 star players that are playing in the pros, especially the back line guys. Zero of those guys were highly recruited guys. And the majority of them can hit as well as cover. And for the white guys like Moss and DeJean, they're the only starting white corners in the NFL in what, the last 20 years? I think some of you are overreacting to some things this year. We held Mizzou to 2.7 yards per rush yesterday. Normally that's a winning formula but I do think Phil needs to reexamine his 3rd down defense. Way to many easy 3rd down conversions yesterday and overall this season. 3rd and long should be a way bigger % for your defense to get off the field. Against the better teams, and especially better QB's, you can't expect these teams to make mistakes like Big Ten West teams and QB's.

So, I agree with much of what you said, but Mizzou was only 5-13 on 3rd down yesterday and 27th in the country for the year. Isn't that pretty good?

 

[Heathen Raider]

I would add, the offense being so shitty gave the opponents so many opportunities

The OPs method does not take into account points the Offense gave up via pick 6s ( I see You Deacon Hill ) or points set up by turnovers again I see You Deacon Hill . Every Team He listed has offenses in a whole different galaxy compared to the last 4 Year window sighted of Iowa offense . This Year Iowa;s defense was above average, barely above average to be fair, certainly not close to elite .

 

[littlez]

So, I agree with much of what you said, but Mizzou was only 5-13 on 3rd down yesterday and 27th in the country for the year. Isn't that pretty good?

It is. It just seems like we’re so good against the run that when you have teams in these 3rd and long situations it should even be better. The one that really sticks with me was after we pushed it to a 10 point lead and had them 3rd and 10 and he made a simple pitch and catch for an easy first down and the next play he hit the long pass leading to a score. I felt like if we stopped them there and got good field position we potentially could have put the game away.

 

[WhiteDog125]

Iowa D has never been elite. Good, yes and has had several great players the last few years specifically. Watch them play any offense with a pulse and it’s usually a different story.

 

[jonesy5960]

Iowa D has never been elite. Good, yes and has had several great players the last few years specifically. Watch them play any offense with a pulse and it’s usually a different story.

Michigan won the national championship last year. Iowa held them to under 250 yards of offense and the only way that Michigan scored was through offensive miscues.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

West….
Zero national championships
Zero playoff wins
Zero playoff appearances
Zero Big Ten Championship game wins. Combine score 352-145

That’s what it was, the truth cannot be controversial.

Well, I never said they were good, only that they are like the bulk of CF.

In the last 10 years -

# of teams in the country that have made it to the playoffs - 14
# of B1G teams that have made the playoffs - 5
# of teams that won a Natty - 6
# of teams that have won a B1G Championship - 5
# of B1G teams that have won a Natty - 2

College football is top heavy. That shouldn't mean that everyone else sucks.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Well, I never said they were good, only that they are like the bulk of CF.

In the last 10 years -

# of teams in the country that have made it to the playoffs - 14
# of B1G teams that have made the playoffs - 5
# of teams that won a Natty - 6
# of teams that have won a B1G Championship - 5
# of B1G teams that have won a Natty - 2

College football is top heavy. That shouldn't mean that everyone else sucks.

The west was weak year after year.

First chance Indiana got to avoid playing all three power teams in the East and they made the playoff.

West covered up a lot of warts.

 

[Heathen Raider]

Iowa D has never been elite. Good, yes and has had several great players the last few years specifically. Watch them play any offense with a pulse and it’s usually a different story.

Last Years D was Elite , They gave up nothing to Minnesota all the goofs points came off Deacon Hill turnovers pretty much same agaisnt Michigan special Teams set up 1 TD and Hills throw Fumble the other rest of the Game FGs and 250 Yards ( with no DeJean) at Penn St They were on the field the entire game with multiple Iowa TOs and no sustained drives. Rest of the schedule Iowa won on Their backs, That might have been as good an Iowa defense as I have seen and it was a Defense that if You have a top 40 offense Iowa could have won the Natty

 

[BurgHawk87]

While this is true, you would then also have to factor in that Iowa defensive metrics have been going up against bad QB's in the Big 10 West for years. It goes both ways and likely evens out for the most part. Example: What recent QB have we played against in our division that went on to the NFL? 0?

Aiden O'Connell and Tommy Devito in 22. Keep moving those goal posts when they don't suit your narrative.

 

[WhiteDog125]

Michigan won the national championship last year. Iowa held them to under 250 yards of offense and the only way that Michigan scored was through offensive miscues.

Last Years D was Elite , They gave up nothing to Minnesota all the goofs points came off Deacon Hill turnovers pretty much same agaisnt Michigan special Teams set up 1 TD and Hills throw Fumble the other rest of the Game FGs and 250 Yards ( with no DeJean) at Penn St They were on the field the entire game with multiple Iowa TOs and no sustained drives. Rest of the schedule Iowa won on Their backs, That might have been as good an Iowa defense as I have seen and it was a Defense that if You have a top 40 offense Iowa could have won the Natty

It was pretty damn good don’t get me wrong just wasn’t “elite”

 

[Grumpy Old Hawk]

I see posts all over this board referring to our defense as elite, top 10, etc. and I just wasn't sure how true that was or if it is a faux due to poor strength of schedule. I looked back at the last 4 seasons for games only against ranked opponents, here is what I found for comparison with our peers and supposed top defenses:

Georgia: 24 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 17
Bama: 23 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 23
Texas: 22 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 25
Penn St: 18 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 24
Ohio St: 17 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 26
Iowa State: 16 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 31

Iowa: 9 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 33

Our defense does not perform at the level the narrative about our program seems to be and also shows quite a bit weaker schedule. My conclusion is that we have been riding a false narrative for years due to the Big 10 west.

Look at how much time these defenses spend on the field. Brian was the king of 3 and out.

 

[Bigg2]

I think it comes down to, we didn’t see anything close to the game changer we thought we’d get from Castro this year.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Iowa D has never been elite. Good, yes and has had several great players the last few years specifically. Watch them play any offense with a pulse and it’s usually a different story.

It's been elite before.

 

[Easthawk1062]

Fair post, quoting just a portion of it. Do you believe opponent offenses change their gameplan knowing 20 points likely wins versus Iowa opposed to needing 30 against a team with a good offense?

I don’t believe that at all. I think teams know Iowa is really good at pulling teams into the shit fit type of street fight game Iowa needs to turn it into. Michigan who won the natty last year really struggled in the Big Ten title moving the ball. Offense and turnovers made that game much more comfortable for them. Iowa is very good defensively especially when you look around the country and see how teams play defensively week in week out…. Oh yeah also look at all the dudes on that side of the ball in the league making bank.

 

[SCHawkeye99]

I see posts all over this board referring to our defense as elite, top 10, etc. and I just wasn't sure how true that was or if it is a faux due to poor strength of schedule. I looked back at the last 4 seasons for games only against ranked opponents, here is what I found for comparison with our peers and supposed top defenses:

Georgia: 24 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 17
Bama: 23 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 23
Texas: 22 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 25
Penn St: 18 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 24
Ohio St: 17 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 26
Iowa State: 16 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 31

Iowa: 9 games vs ranked opponents, defense allowed average of 33

Our defense does not perform at the level the narrative about our program seems to be and also shows quite a bit weaker schedule. My conclusion is that we have been riding a false narrative for years due to the Big 10 west.

Despite all the spin on here attempting to ignore these stats, the glaring fact that Iowa only played 9 ranked opponents in four years speaks volumes about the weak 'strength of schedule' for Iowa.
Thankfully we don't play 4 or 5 ranked teams per year.
Kirk would need 5 more years to retire with the win record.

 

[Zooropa_NCR]

But you are disputing it. You're arguing against every metric and statistic, many of which are adjusted for the strength of the opposing offense, that the success of the defense has been a reflection of the opponents they faced rather than the quality of the defense itself.

Your claim that Iowa's defense hasn't been elite over the last several years, because very good offenses have scored on them is silly. Look at this year's bowl games. Apparently a lot of very good defenses were only good because of who they faced. PSU, Oregon, and Tennessee were all top 10 defenses this year. By your logic it was all mirage because they gave up an average of 42 points in their bowl games. It's just a dumb assumption.

And it’s why the belief that Iowa can only win if defense holds the opponent under 7 points is delusional

You make the playoffs, you better be able to score. The opposing offenses are too good.

The days of an Alabama v LSU 6-3 slugfest are over.

If the playoff teams are healthy, and there’s no issue of weather, the games will be 45-35

 

[jonesy5960]

And it’s why the belief that Iowa can only win if defense holds the opponent under 7 points is delusional

You make the playoffs, you better be able to score. The opposing offenses are too good.

The days of an Alabama v LSU 6-3 slugfest are over.

If the playoff teams are healthy, and there’s no issue of weather, the games will be 45-35

Exactly.

 

[Zooropa_NCR]

I don’t believe that at all. I think teams know Iowa is really good at pulling teams into the shit fit type of street fight game Iowa needs to turn it into. Michigan who won the natty last year really struggled in the Big Ten title moving the ball. Offense and turnovers made that game much more comfortable for them. Iowa is very good defensively especially when you look around the country and see how teams play defensively week in week out…. Oh yeah also look at all the dudes on that side of the ball in the league making bank.

I believe certain teams philosophies do match up better with Iowa defense

Michigan was a power run team. They’ve always played Iowa straight up and i believe that’s why Iowa does a little better against them. Tho some years like 2021 they completely broke the defense down 42-3 or whatever it was

2023 the defense was inspired the whole game

But the game was over at 10-0. There was no chance Iowa offense was going to score twice. It was all on the defense to do it and that’s prob what energized them

Now look at how Iowa does against teams that have talent and play a more wide open / aggressive offense

Defense bends for a little bit, and when it breaks it breaks bad

 

[hexumhawk]

Iowa had a middle of the ground to good defense this year. A lot of teams would like to have what we put on the field. With that said, here are the areas that we lacked this year:

Consistent DL pressure, especially on known passing downs
Safety play was at best average to poor. That has to get better. X and Schulte were not good (some of this comes from the first thing I listed)
CB play was overall OK but basing that on Harris's play. He had an amazing year and the rest of the crew left a lot to be desired.

Allen and others really need to step up on the DL for pass rush for the future.

 

[obfuscating]

The last time IA and MIZ played, Iowa won 27-24 (back with Hyde and Cooker). Still pretty even in play it seems.

 

[WhiteDog125]

It's been elite before.

Nah. Very good but not elite. Very few elite defenses out there. I would say Iowas best defense in kf era is 09.