The votes are in and CJ is no .....

[jdv77]

CJF is a stud but this team would be even better had Moss stayed. Not saying one starts over the other, pretty obvious that they would both be starting right now with J Bo out.

I respectfully disagree. Moss is not a good enough rebounder or defender to play the 4, and not a good enough ballhandler passer to play the 1. He is not better than CJ at the 2 or Wieskamp at the 3. I do not believe that he would be starting, even without Bohannon.

If you look at Moss' season at Kansas, he has scored basically half of his points on the season (34 of 70) against Chaminade and Monmouth. In 220 minutes (22/game), he has a total of 6 assists and 17 rebounds. Moss is a good shooter. But if he isn't taking and making shots, he does not positively influence the game in other ways.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

CJF is a stud but this team would be even better had Moss stayed. Not saying one starts over the other, pretty obvious that they would both be starting right now with J Bo out.

I respectfully disagree. Moss left because he saw the hand writing on the wall, CJF is better at both ends of the court and has brought a level of aggressiveness every game that Moss only occasionally did.

 

[owenhawk]

IMHO it is clearly obvious to anyone with a brain and knowledge about basketball that the number 1 reason Moss left was because he knew that CJ would end up the starter and severely cut into his playing time.

CJ is a freshman and already looks like an All B1G freshman team player. He's not a role player on this team, he is the guy who the coach wants to have the ball in his hands at crunch time.

Yep, was said here by some people that Frederick was the real deal and Moss knew that and was scoffed at that Moss might have left for that reason (or at least part of he reason). I know Moss would be getting minutes if he was here, especially with the injuries but I wouldn’t want him taking minutes away from any of the backcourt that is playing right now and that includes Evelyn. I’m not basing that just on Evelyn’s last game. I’m basing it on that Evelyn is actually multi-dimensional - he can handle the ball, pass, and he plays good defense (consistently). When he shoots well, that is just the icing on the cake.

Realistically, Moss is in a spot that is probably a better fit for him. He us pretty much a spot-up shooter and that is it. Moss is a much better comparison to Ogelaby and Ellington than Frederick is. Iowa has better options of multi-dimensional Guards (with Frederick leading the way) and that is what Iowa needs. Having a spot-up up shooter is not what Iowa needs - they have plenty of offense. They need Guards who can handle, defend, and make solid passes.

 

[hexumhawk]

Minus what Garza has done, this has been the biggest story/surprise for me this year with this team. He has played amazing for his first year on the floor. Made clutch shots, doesn't turn the ball over, good passer and handles, and sneaky athletic. Going to like watching him play.

 

[CleteyColgate]

CJF is a stud but this team would be even better had Moss stayed. Not saying one starts over the other, pretty obvious that they would both be starting right now with J Bo out.

I agree with that. Wish Isaiah had stayed. For whatever reason, he thought it was in his best interest to leave. Hard to see how that works out better for him personally, but it's his decision and prerogative.

 

[pocha444444]

I respectfully disagree. Moss left because he saw the hand writing on the wall, CJF is better at both ends of the court and has brought a level of aggressiveness every game that Moss only occasionally did.

You missed his point. You don't have to have one or the other, you can have both. He's saying we'd be better if Moss had stayed, and he's right. You realize Kreiner and Pemsl are our 2nd and 3rd guys off the bench for the rest of the season, right?

 

[unIowa]

CJ is the guy you love when he is on your team but hate when he's on the other team.

And we have him for 3 and 1/2 more seasons! Kid is a baller fosho.

 

[Hans81]

Besides Bohannon and White biggest recruiting steal in FM era?

Yes, I would agree with that assessment.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Ryan and Cordell would not lose PT to Isaiah.

Isaiah was very inconsistent during games and from game to game. He was also generally a poor defender-although he made some great defensive plays through the years. Bottom line is we've made a major improvement at the 2 in almost every respect.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

You missed his point. You don't have to have one or the other, you can have both. He's saying we'd be better if Moss had stayed, and he's right. You realize Kreiner and Pemsl are our 2nd and 3rd guys off the bench for the rest of the season, right?

We wouldn’t see the contribution and results from CJ as well as wins if Moss was still here as they’d be splitting time. Moss had three years to be a consistent player on both ends of the court and it didn’t happen.

 

[Suterman]

I agree with that. Wish Isaiah had stayed. For whatever reason, he thought it was in his best interest to leave. Hard to see how that works out better for him personally, but it's his decision and prerogative.

Hows Moss doing at KU?:

PPG- 7.0
Reb.- 1.7
Asst.- 0.6
FG%- 42.3
3pt%- 33.3

 

[pocha444444]

We wouldn’t see the contribution and results from CJ as well as wins if Moss was still here as they’d be splitting time. Moss had three years to be a consistent player on both ends of the court and it didn’t happen.

Kreiner and Pemsl combined for 32 minutes last game. You could easily take 20 of those and give them to Moss, and keep CJ where he's at currently.

 

[pocha444444]

Hows Moss doing at KU?:

PPG- 7.0
Reb.- 1.7
Asst.- 0.6
FG%- 42.3
3pt%- 33.3

And averaging the same number of minutes he was at Iowa, but now he's doing it for a top 5 team in the nation. I'm obviously a Hawk fan, so I wouldn't leave if I were in his shoes. If his goal was to play for the best team possible though I'd say he's doing alright.

 

[Bee93]

And averaging the same number of minutes he was at Iowa, but now he's doing it for a top 5 team in the nation. I'm obviously a Hawk fan, so I wouldn't leave if I were in his shoes. If his goal was to play for the best team possible though I'd say he's doing alright.

But if his goal was to impress pro scouts at a higher profile program I’d say he’s failing. NBA ain’t happening.

 

[BBHawk]

Hows Moss doing at KU?:

PPG- 7.0
Reb.- 1.7
Asst.- 0.6
FG%- 42.3
3pt%- 33.3

This^^^ in 22 m/g this year. And FWIW, Isaiah averaged more minutes over 2018-2019 (24+) than he has so far at Kansas, and they haven't got into the meat of their schedule yet so those will probably go down even more. I think his transfer is probably not really helping him minutes-wise.

CJ's stats so far this year:
27 m/g
PPG 11.5
FG % 56.4
3 pt % 51.2
Reb 1.5
Assists 2.8

 

[pocha444444]

But if his goal was to impress pro scouts at a higher profile program I’d say he’s failing. NBA ain’t happening.

It never was, so that's irrelevant. NBA ain't happening for 99% of college players.

 

[Buddehawk]

Josh Oglesby or Brady Ellingson.

Not just an actual great shooter but a good ball handler, versatile scorer, smart passer and vastly superior to Brady as a defender. People have kind of forgotten but Ogles was a pretty good defender before he graduated. Much quicker than either of the guys to whom CJ was most often compared.

Just 11 games into his career and already been over 20 twice, 8 double figure games and shooting 50%+ from 3. A little nervous at the line but he'll get over that I predict, just too good of a shooter to a poor free throw shooter.

This one is a keeper.

He is not at their level yet but he reminds me of the guards that played at Virginia last year

 

[Buddehawk]

I agree with that. Wish Isaiah had stayed. For whatever reason, he thought it was in his best interest to leave. Hard to see how that works out better for him personally, but it's his decision and prerogative.

I would have liked him to stay as well but I am not sure he would give us more than what CJ is giving us right now but the depth would be nice, he would have gotten plenty of minutes

 

[Hawk-Fran1]

As I have been stating for a year...CJF is a beast..I saw it and called it.....He can shoot, dribble, pass, box out, makes big shots, makes extra pass and most important guards his tail off on defense. Kid is a freaking winner and his toughness has changed the culture of this team with Connor Luka Weez. Its going to be awesome watching this kid for three more years. I can not recall a recruit who we as a fan base have ever been so wrong on. Kid is the most impressive frosh in Fran 10 years at Iowa.

 

[pocha444444]

I can not recall a recruit who we as a fan base have ever been so wrong on.

What are you talking about? CJ, along with Nunge, were two of the most hyped players I've ever seen on these boards this past summer(for two players that we'd seen very little to no action from). I was skeptical of both, especially Nunge (since we'd actually seen him play and pretty much knew what he was). I've been pleasantly surprised with CJ's all-around game though, I'm happy that everyone talking him up all summer ended up being correct.

 

[anon_gjzkhykcp9iuj]

What are you talking about? CJ, along with Nunge, were two of the most hyped players I've ever seen on these boards this past summer(for two players that we'd seen very little to no action from). I was skeptical of both, especially Nunge (since we'd actually seen him play and pretty much knew what he was). I've been pleasantly surprised with CJ's all-around game though, I'm happy that everyone talking him up all summer ended up being correct.

You must be thinking of a different board, because what you say about CJ and hype just ain't true.

 

[anon_2zMXH429BhxV1Npk]

Yeah, the hype for CJ only started once he hit campus and all the reports about how good he looked in practice.

As a recruit when he committed 90% of the board were furious because he had no other major offers and all reports were about how he's a family friend of Fran's. It wasn't until after his senior year winning Mr. Basketball in Kentucky that some (not most) decided he might be decent.

 

[pocha444444]

You must be thinking of a different board, because what you say about CJ and hype just ain't true.

I'm talking about this past summer. People were very excited about someone they'd never seen play. I don't follow recruiting, so I was just going to wait and see.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

And averaging the same number of minutes he was at Iowa, but now he's doing it for a top 5 team in the nation. I'm obviously a Hawk fan, so I wouldn't leave if I were in his shoes. If his goal was to play for the best team possible though I'd say he's doing alright.

Well according to Moss' dad this summer he said he wanted to go a place where he'd be one of the top guys on the team. Which is why him switching from Arkansas to Kansas was a little head scratching since good chance he could've been one of the top 2-3 guys on their team this year compared to the 6th man at KU where he has a role even a little bet lesser than he did at Iowa.

 

[owenhawk]

Well according to Moss' dad this summer he said he wanted to go a place where he'd be one of the top guys on the team. Which is why him switching from Arkansas to Kansas was a little head scratching since good chance he could've been one of the top 2-3 guys on their team this year compared to the 6th man at KU where he has a role even a little bet lesser than he did at Iowa.

If that’s true, he should have went to a Western Illinois type school.

 

[HawkLand]

Well according to Moss' dad this summer he said he wanted to go a place where he'd be one of the top guys on the team. Which is why him switching from Arkansas to Kansas was a little head scratching since good chance he could've been one of the top 2-3 guys on their team this year compared to the 6th man at KU where he has a role even a little bet lesser than he did at Iowa.

I’m guessing more playing time is what they were thinking while making their decision to leave Iowa. Then I’m assume they were a bit surprised when Kansas offered and became to hard to refuse.

On a side note, I am too lazy to do this, but I would be curious what his numbers were not counting Monmouth and Chaminade. I do believe I saw those were is biggest games.

 

[mazda1]

We will be loaded at the point and wings next year. J Bo back, hopefully P Mac back, Perkins, Ulis, Joe T, Joe W, and Conner if he’s needed to play the 1-3.

Moss would have given us another option for Fran this year, but I think we’re okay this year and going forward we will have plenty of options who are ready for B1G minutes. We’ll be able to go quick, go shooters, and have some length options as the situation calls for it.

Bigs will the the question mark.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I’m guessing more playing time is what they were thinking while making their decision to leave Iowa. Then I’m assume they were a bit surprised when Kansas offered and became to hard to refuse.

On a side note, I am too lazy to do this, but I would be curious what his numbers were not counting Monmouth and Chaminade. I do believe I saw those were is biggest games.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3935015/isaiah-moss

That's the link. Very unimpressive season. Thought Isaiah would score more than he has thus far. Assumed he was being brought in to shoot.

 

[Aleksei]

CJF is a stud but this team would be even better had Moss stayed. Not saying one starts over the other, pretty obvious that they would both be starting right now with J Bo out.

Agree

 

[billshawks]

CJ Fredrick is everything I thought Andrew Fleming would be

Agree Agree Agree

 

[BBHawk]

Agree

Who would Moss start in place of? Definitely not Garza, Connor, Weezy, or CJ. Woukd you rather have him in front of Toussaint? Evelyn? Just curious...

 

[Junkead]

CJ is Pistol Pete, enough said. Moss isn’t stupid. Too far? We’ll see.

 

[RocknRollface]

You must be thinking of a different board, because what you say about CJ and hype just ain't true.

Yeah, very few were really buying CJ prior to the start of this year.

It looked bad, family friend walkon white guy with few other major offers.

It looked like Ellingson Fleming part 3.

 

[kelzer]

Yeah, very few were really buying CJ prior to the start of this year.

It looked bad, family friend walkon white guy with few other major offers.

It looked like Ellingson Fleming part 3.

CJ was hurt and missed 16 games (late Dec through mid Feb) during the prime recruiting season his junior year, so a lot of scouts never saw him play. He still got offers from Xavier, Indiana, Penn State, and a few others. IMO, if he’d been healthy he would have been a 4 star recruit. CJ had already committed to Iowa the summer before his senior year so got no more attention whatsoever recruiting-wise.

Most know that CJ’s uncle Joe (who was also an assistant for his high school team) played for Fran at Notre Dame. What nobody seems to know is that Joe was 2-time captain, led the Irish in scoring as a junior (also named team mvp that year), took them to the NCAA’s both of those years, scored 20 in 1st round win over Vandy, and 16 in 2nd round loss against a Georgetown team that had both Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Motumbo.

Joe still holds Notre Dame’s career 3pt % record (for 32 years now), and the single season 3pt %. Oh, and he’s also second on that single season 3pt % list.

So it’s not exactly like this “family friend” is some neighbor Fran used to drink beers with.

CJ dominated the Kentucky state tournament, and his two 32 point performances were the 2 biggest games against the toughest competition. If I recall correctly, in the championship they destroyed the #1 team by 18.

So if people had done a little more research they might not have been so skeptical. Those of us who’ve followed CJ’s career knew he’d have an impact, though maybe not this soon. Redshirting was definitely a huge help.

This is not a case of Fran getting lucky. He should get a lot of credit for recruiting CJ. He knew what he was getting.

 

[Hawk-Fran1]

I knew his Uncle was a great player did not know the extent. CJ is really good on both ends of the floor hes a pleasure to watch so efficient as a scorer. I believe he needs more shots. Great recruit for Fran and us Hawk fans. Kid plays the game the right way. Went to the game today crowd does not cheer as loud as other games but the Hawks are fun to watch. CJ and Joey W really really impressive on both ends and Luka and Ryan played great.

 

[Aleksei]

Who would Moss start in place of? Definitely not Garza, Connor, Weezy, or CJ. Woukd you rather have him in front of Toussaint? Evelyn? Just curious...

I think the point was that the team would be better, not that he would start over anyone.

 

[BBHawk]

CJF is a stud but this team would be even better had Moss stayed. Not saying one starts over the other, pretty obvious that they would both be starting right now with J Bo out.

Agree

Who would Moss start in place of? Definitely not Garza, Connor, Weezy, or CJ. Would you rather have him in front of Toussaint? Evelyn? Just curious...

I think the point was that the team would be better, not that he would start over anyone.

That's not what Triton said. See above. I just want to know who you/he would have Moss start in place of. I agree as off the bench he might be a help but I really like more of what Evelyn brings on the defensive end better.

 

[RocknRollface]

CJ was hurt and missed 16 games (late Dec through mid Feb) during the prime recruiting season his junior year, so a lot of scouts never saw him play. He still got offers from Xavier, Indiana, Penn State, and a few others. IMO, if he’d been healthy he would have been a 4 star recruit. CJ had already committed to Iowa the summer before his senior year so got no more attention whatsoever recruiting-wise.

Most know that CJ’s uncle Joe (who was also an assistant for his high school team) played for Fran at Notre Dame. What nobody seems to know is that Joe was 2-time captain, led the Irish in scoring as a junior (also named team mvp that year), took them to the NCAA’s both of those years, scored 20 in 1st round win over Vandy, and 16 in 2nd round loss against a Georgetown team that had both Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Motumbo.

Joe still holds Notre Dame’s career 3pt % record (for 32 years now), and the single season 3pt %. Oh, and he’s also second on that single season 3pt % list.

So it’s not exactly like this “family friend” is some neighbor Fran used to drink beers with.

CJ dominated the Kentucky state tournament, and his two 32 point performances were the 2 biggest games against the toughest competition. If I recall correctly, in the championship they destroyed the #1 team by 18.

So if people had done a little more research they might not have been so skeptical. Those of us who’ve followed CJ’s career knew he’d have an impact, though maybe not this soon. Redshirting was definitely a huge help.

This is not a case of Fran getting lucky. He should get a lot of credit for recruiting CJ. He knew what he was getting.

Fran desvers credit hete for sure, just like he desvered skepticism base on guys like Fleming.

Seems like Fran hits on about half of his "unknown" guys.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Yeah, very few were really buying CJ prior to the start of this year.

It looked bad, family friend walkon white guy with few other major offers.

It looked like Ellingson Fleming part 3.

This was true, there were as many people saying Fleming Ogles Ellingson as giving CJ a chance. My boys down at the U kept telling me we would love CJ. His junior and senior game film was great, the KY state tourney video showed a talented D1 player.

Proud to say I've been high on the kid since I saw the HS video. Feels good to be right once in a while.

 

[pocha444444]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3935015/isaiah-moss

That's the link. Very unimpressive season. Thought Isaiah would score more than he has thus far. Assumed he was being brought in to shoot.

His stats are basically the same as they were his last two years at Iowa.