Yep
Pour it on.
Take out his ships blocking/threatening Ukrainian exports w/ NATO assets.
He will piss himself.
This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
Yep
Pour it on.
Take out his ships blocking/threatening Ukrainian exports w/ NATO assets.
He will piss himself.
Yeah, but he understands how to look like a strongman. This compromise makes him look weak. It also screws with the balance of power in the military.
Putin liked playing Wagner against the MoD. Now it’s just the MoD, which means if he puts anyone competent in charge, he creates a true threat to his leadership.
I don’t know about this.
Just because Putin didn’t fire nuclear missiles at Russians in Russia doesn’t mean he won’t fire nuclear missiles at non-Russians in Not Russia.
If Putin fires nukes at anyone, Russia is done.
Russians will be deported, worldwide. Russia will no longer exist to the Western world.
That is not what he or his oligarchs want. They will lose EVERYTHING.
I’m not sure why we, and the rest of the west, aren’t currently deporting more/all Russians anyway. The west is where they want to be. On the flip side, no one in their right mind wants to go to Russia and if they do, they’re arrested on trumped up charges simply to use as trade for real criminals
Let the rich visiting Russians go back to their crap hole of a country until the Russian military completely exits or is forced out of Ukraine. Maybe that could help accelerate change.
We can’t assume Putin will act with restraint if he thinks he is in immediate danger.
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100 percent this. I think it’s time to make it clear anymore attacks coming from Belarus will be dealt with by NATO air. Make it clear Belarus will be toast if Wagner or air strikes originate there.
Good morning Russian citizens. A message-
Great news. The tank “range” is decidedly shorter than artie. Less “steel rain“ to worry about. Now, about those flying tanks… Prigo’s crew splashed a bunch of choppers, including 3 EW versions.
I wonder if it can be attributed to no active protection for those birds?
We also can’t let Putin act with impunity if he has nukes. If he uses one, NATO will be obligated to take him out. It’s a lose/lose scenario for him.
If Putin uses a tactical nuke in Ukraine…NATO is obligated to take him out?
I don’t think that’s in the treaty 😄
IMHO-
Obligated may have been an incorrect word choice and taking out Putin the person is probably not needed, but he is not wrong in that we have to get the military involved in a big way.. If whoever the person in charge of Russia decides to use a nuke that doesn't mean Russia stops advancing. After the nuke Russia will walk all over Ukraine and control the country. At a minimum Poland now has to get involved and everything goes to shit very fast. Secondly, Ukraine while not a member of NATO is NATO's responsibility because of its action to date. I do not think we a have a real choice because Russia will probably never be weakened to this point ever again. We do nothing and the Bear will reconstitute itself.
I hope it doesn't come to this but it might have to be done.
Lots of able bodied men in those videos, unlike the hinterland areas whose men were swept up into service.
Let’s just hope we never get to that point.
I agree with a lot of this. Especially points 4 and 5. Russia is on its way into turning into a tribal group of warlords like you see in a place in Middle East.
Some possible outcomes of yesterday's events:
1. In Wagner PMC, a split has reportedly started between those who felt used and those who remained loyal to Prigozhin after the failed rebellion.
2. Combat pilots reportedly quit Wagner PMC due to their disagreement with the way planes and helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces were destroyed yesterday.
3. A vertical of power has collapsed. No one in Russia can feel safe anymore. Neither officials, nor oligarchs, nor FSB officers who used to think they were the rulers of life. Putin stopped holding a monopoly on violence in Russia yesterday. It was proven that factions with more weapons and determination decide everything.
4. Russia might be facing a bloody war, not a civil war, but a war of clans, armed groups and private armies: Chechens, Prigozhin's supporters, armed mercenaries, who will separate from Prigozhin or other PMCs and be hired by local clans for protection from invading outsiders. All large business and oligarchs will probably create (if they haven't already) private armies, as Gazprom has already done to protect itself. Conflicts and redistribution of property will be resolved by force. It will be the new 90s but far worse - Resembling the Mad Max style and genre of an anti-utopia action movie.
5. The Russian army, it seems, has de facto ceased to exist as a united structure. Soldiers and officers sitting in trenches in the massacre unleashed by Putin, probably finally realized yesterday the utter pointlessness of the war against Ukraine, against the background of the fact that a group of criminals in the rear can pass 600km in a day, sweeping away everything in their path and then be amnestied after killing pilots and civilians.
6. Ukraine is a few steps closer to fully restoring its territorial integrity, including Crimea.
7. What a pity that this circus did not end with the self-destruction of Putin's regime and Prigozhin faction. But I believe it will happen again with even larger scale!
Some possible outcomes of yesterday's events:
1. In Wagner PMC, a split has reportedly started between those who felt used and those who remained loyal to Prigozhin after the failed rebellion.
2. Combat pilots reportedly quit Wagner PMC due to their disagreement with the way planes and helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces were destroyed yesterday.
3. A vertical of power has collapsed. No one in Russia can feel safe anymore. Neither officials, nor oligarchs, nor FSB officers who used to think they were the rulers of life. Putin stopped holding a monopoly on violence in Russia yesterday. It was proven that factions with more weapons and determination decide everything.
4. Russia might be facing a bloody war, not a civil war, but a war of clans, armed groups and private armies: Chechens, Prigozhin's supporters, armed mercenaries, who will separate from Prigozhin or other PMCs and be hired by local clans for protection from invading outsiders. All large business and oligarchs will probably create (if they haven't already) private armies, as Gazprom has already done to protect itself. Conflicts and redistribution of property will be resolved by force. It will be the new 90s but far worse - Resembling the Mad Max style and genre of an anti-utopia action movie.
5. The Russian army, it seems, has de facto ceased to exist as a united structure. Soldiers and officers sitting in trenches in the massacre unleashed by Putin, probably finally realized yesterday the utter pointlessness of the war against Ukraine, against the background of the fact that a group of criminals in the rear can pass 600km in a day, sweeping away everything in their path and then be amnestied after killing pilots and civilians.
6. Ukraine is a few steps closer to fully restoring its territorial integrity, including Crimea.
7. What a pity that this circus did not end with the self-destruction of Putin's regime and Prigozhin faction. But I believe it will happen again with even larger scale!
Neither Putin nor Prighozin has physical possession of tanks, planes, helicopters, bombs, etc. This isn’t done and can flare up anytime a rogue leader wants it to
They didn't need to stage a coup, and embarrass Putin in order to accomplish this.
Yep. It weakened Putin immensely so not a plan.
Crossing from Belarus into Ukraine would be a suicide mission. The Ukrainians have had a whole year to prep that border.
Manpower shortages have been a component of the Russian failures. They'd weaken themselves by attempting another axis of attack.
I was going to post this. Applebaum was on Lib TV this morning and said the same thing on air that she wrote.
Nobody seemed to exhibit any concern. There was no public show of support for Putin. That was very telling.
Applebaum, for those who don't know, has spent decades studying and writing about Russia, and has lived there and in Poland. She is a knowledgable. person on Russia.
This has been a tremendous propaganda victory for Ukraine. Expect to see the feeds to Russian soldiers filled with footage of the chaos, and of a Russian speaking Zelensky asking them why they are willing to die in a trench in Ukraine while the bosses live in luxury, and don't care about them?
Maybe we will find out after the war, but given our previous discussions on all of that old armor being pulled out of storage, I just have to think T-55s dug into a trench line, with no plan/ability to move them are being counted as artillery.
What happens if the radioactive dust settles on Poland, Romania, the Baltics...
Video of blast mentioned earlier.
SIAP They may be misuing the term bridgehead as these may just be more commando raids to harass the Russians.
Sound!
Sound!
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FWIW
This guy @RealJakeBroe has a different take on the situation. I was watching his youtube channel and he thinks that the FSB has had enough of Putin and it was the FSB who guaranteed safety for Prigozhin The FSB will then for the next election (March) allow him to run to replace Putin. This way there is a peaceful transition.
I have no idea how tuned in this guy is but since we are all speculating thought I would throw this out there.
This guy @RealJakeBroe has a different take on the situation. I was watching his youtube channel and he thinks that the FSB has had enough of Putin and it was the FSB who guaranteed safety for Prigozhin The FSB will then for the next election (March) allow him to run to replace Putin. This way there is a peaceful transition.
I have no idea how tuned in this guy is but since we are all speculating thought I would throw this out there.
