This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
I completely grok that in the abstract, but Realpolitik doesn't work that way.
In the same way, for the same reasons, that Soviet bases in Cuba were an unacceptable threat, one we made clear we would go to war to thwart, NATO expansion is viewed as threatening. The Serbian and Libyan interventions put to bed the idea that NATO was a defensive alliance. In the post-Soviet world NATO has just been a vehicle for the neocons to put international imprimatur on U.S. military interventions.
If the Soviets had tried to force the blockade on Cuba and we started shooting at them, we'd be in the wrong for that, agree?
And yet, thankfully, the people in power realized you can right, and still be dead right.
Cuba was free to make whatever military arrangements it thinks are in its best interest, right up until those interests collide with ours, then what happens? Realpolitik.
Kremlinmole97:
"I know, Mrs. Ukraine, that your husband Mr. Russia has beat and abused you since you were married. I know he regularly demeans, hits, and rapes you. So what did you expect would happen if you thought you could actually file for divorce from him? International legal protections of some kind to require him to follow the 5 treaties he has signed? LOL, divorce denied."
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Russians laying down smoke in preparation to advance. (Nothing bad happens to them....yet.)
Now do one for Tigray, and Yemen, and all the other places being militarily subjugated without as much of your attention, and tell me why Ukraine matters most to you, and why the U.S. should pour billions into it, but not the others.
Ever heard of Tigray? Deadliest war on the globe last year.
Ever heard of Yemen? Where a shiite minority backed by your friends in Tehran overthrew the popularly elected sunni majority government? Sure. I've heard of that. Putin is following that playbook in Ukraine right now.
Pappy, we've talked Yemen before it seems you've learned nothing at all.
Let's start with the 'election' in 2012.
You realize that foreign powers selected the 'vice president' to be the single candidate on the ballot, right? You actually want to defend that vote as a demonstration of Yemeni voter preference?
I'd be embarrassed to consider that an election. An election is a choice. What choice is there in a single candidate election?
Hope this is correct.
"The storm in the Black Sea destroyed the naval drone protection barriers that Russia had put in place to protect the Crimean bridge."
Of course we should, and 99% of people agree.
I'd be fine calling the war with lines as they are right now as long as Ukraine is allowed in NATO. If that isn't granted they should just continue to fight, because even if they called a ceasefire right now Russia will just be back in a few years to kill, maim, and destroy anyway.
Tigray and Yemen were a civil wars. Do you think that's a comparable situation to a sovereign state being invaded by another country?
Obama administration helped the Saudis invade Yemen. It was a bit more than a ‘civil war’ when external powers are trying to install a government.
Tigray was indeed a civil war, they have a constitutional right to secession, yet Eritrea invaded them as well.
Kosovo was a civil war, and the US led a coalition under NATO auspices to bomb and partition Serbia with a foreign invasion.
Have you read Ambassador Burns cable from 2008?
Remember, this was classified, internal communications, not spin doctoring or talking points:
Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
They may need more training but I hope they don't get it.
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A US official has denied that the Biden administration is nudging Ukraine toward negotiations with Russia, saying it’s up to Kyiv when to seek peace talks.
The comments from James O’Brien, assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasian affairs, came in response to a report from the German tabloid Bild. The report said the US and Germany were trying to nudge Ukraine toward the negotiating table by providing just enough weapons to maintain the current battle lines.
The Bild story I thought was intriguing, but no, there’s no US policy," O’Brien said. "We’ve always said that this is a matter for Ukraine to decide. We decide nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. And I think the other reality here is we see no indication that Russia is willing to entertain substantive, real peace negotiations."
According to Ukrainska Pravda, Germany also denied the Bild report. "Ukraine has to define military and political goals in its defensive fight against the Russian aggression. Only Ukraine can set a date of the start of peace talks," the German government said.
The US and most of its NATO allies have discouraged peace talks throughout the war and actively worked against short-lived negotiations in the early days of the conflict.
David Arakhamia, a member of Ukraine’s parliament who led the Ukrainian delegation to Istanbul during peace talks with Russia in March 2022, confirmed last week that Russia only wanted a commitment of Ukrainian neutrality to end the war at the time.
Arakhamia also confirmed earlier reporting from Ukrainska Pravda that then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told President Volodymyr Zelensky that even if Kyiv was ready to sign a deal with Moscow, Ukraine’s Western backers were not.
"When we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we would not sign anything with them at all, and let’s just fight," he said.
The comments from James O’Brien, assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasian affairs, came in response to a report from the German tabloid Bild. The report said the US and Germany were trying to nudge Ukraine toward the negotiating table by providing just enough weapons to maintain the current battle lines.
The Bild story I thought was intriguing, but no, there’s no US policy," O’Brien said. "We’ve always said that this is a matter for Ukraine to decide. We decide nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. And I think the other reality here is we see no indication that Russia is willing to entertain substantive, real peace negotiations."
According to Ukrainska Pravda, Germany also denied the Bild report. "Ukraine has to define military and political goals in its defensive fight against the Russian aggression. Only Ukraine can set a date of the start of peace talks," the German government said.
The US and most of its NATO allies have discouraged peace talks throughout the war and actively worked against short-lived negotiations in the early days of the conflict.
David Arakhamia, a member of Ukraine’s parliament who led the Ukrainian delegation to Istanbul during peace talks with Russia in March 2022, confirmed last week that Russia only wanted a commitment of Ukrainian neutrality to end the war at the time.
Arakhamia also confirmed earlier reporting from Ukrainska Pravda that then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told President Volodymyr Zelensky that even if Kyiv was ready to sign a deal with Moscow, Ukraine’s Western backers were not.
"When we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we would not sign anything with them at all, and let’s just fight," he said.
Both were invaded by foreign powers, so I think calling them a civil war is misleading.
Kosovo/Serbia was a civil war, until NATO started bombing, right? Would it be accurate to continue calling it a civil war when multiple nations are dropping bombs in the country?
Kosovo/Serbia war aims were clear: stop an ongoing genocide. I don’t feel bad about getting involved at all.
I think our president shouldn’t start dropping bombs on other countries that haven’t attacked us without authorization from Congress.
Clinton should have been impeached for violating the War Powers resolution, but the Establishment loves the Imperial Presidency, so nobody touched that with a 10’ pole.
I have no clue why any of you engage with 97. He provided no value and isn’t particularly clever. It isn’t challenging to disprove him. Is it boredom?
Another quality addition from the guy who asserted Azov Battalion was Putin’s Little Green Men.
Keep’em coming…
These troop numbers of late have been staggering. Meat grinder indeed.
The video at the beginning of the article is worth a watch....trench warfare.
Russia is basically the fictional world of the Hunger Games.
Another quality addition from the guy who asserted the build up to war in 2021 by Russia was all BS from the west and US for political reasons and just war games.
