Thoughts/Questions On PG...

[EZ2BJZ]

It seems like Iowa's PG situation is a hot topic right now, and probably rightfully so. It looks like most fans are on board with adding a PG to the roster with the remaining scholarship, although there seems to be a bit of diversity as far as whom to offer or go after (i.e. transfer or high school senior).

My first thought is to consider who we currently have on the team at PG (Williams-sophomore and Bohannon-incoming freshman) and who we have coming in down the road (McCaffery 2017) and how that impacts the long term makeup of the team. What I mean is if Iowa adds another freshman point guard (i.e Moore or Vitale) that would mean that Iowa would have four point guards on scholarship for at least two seasons (2017/18-2018/19), correct?

Granted, I've read that Vitale could be a SG, but suppose Iowa was able to land Moore, then what would that mean for the other 3 point guards Iowa currently has on the team or coming in? Is Christian Williams able to be more of a combo/shooting guard? I was just curious how others see this playing out should Iowa get a commitment from a class of '16 point guard.

 

[DanL53]

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/positionless-basketball-taking-hold-college

The only reason I'd like to see another guard is that we currently have five and I'm sure we'd like to use Jok as a wing quite often. That means we are a little light on guards.

But keeping with the ideas behind positionless basketball, which we have imo been moving towards throughout the McCaffery era, certainly Bohannon and Williams can play what was called the two. Moss and Williams could play the two or three. Jok the two or three. Only Ellingson seems bound to shooting guard.

My simple belief is soon people will have trouble determining exactly who our point guard is, and that will be a good thing.

 

[gilligan19]

Fran is far more confident in Williams and Bohannon at the PG spot, its to bad none of you do.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/positionless-basketball-taking-hold-college

The only reason I'd like to see another guard is that we currently have five and I'm sure we'd like to use Jok as a wing quite often. That means we are a little light on guards.

But keeping with the ideas behind positionless basketball, which we have imo been moving towards throughout the McCaffery era, certainly Bohannon and Williams can play what was called the two. Moss and Williams could play the two or three. Jok the two or three. Only Ellingson seems bound to shooting guard.

My simple belief is soon people will have trouble determining exactly who our point guard is, and that will be a good thing.

I didn't realize Bohannon was considered a 2 guard as well. I figured Williams would be the one who would interchangeably play the point and 2.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Fran is far more confident in Williams and Bohannon at the PG spot, its to bad none of you do.

I don't know what you mean by "its to bad none of you do."

 

[Scott559]

Fran is far more confident in Williams and Bohannon at the PG spot, its to bad none of you do.

All I know is that according to Tyler Cook Fran has given him his blessing in regard to helping with the recruitment of Moore and Vital, So while I'm sure Fran has confidence in Williams and Bohannon, It also appears he is looking to add another quality player to the mix, Competition among players is not a bad thing, Let the cream rise to the top. Fran seems to see a need, I trust his judgement. I'm not degrading any player on the roster or any player coming in, As far as having confidence in Williams or Bohannon, Who knows, Really besides Fran and the staff.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

All I know is that according to Tyler Cook Fran has given him his blessing in regard to helping with the recruitment of Moore and Vital, So while I'm sure Fran has confidence in Williams and Bohannon, It also appears he is looking to add another quality player to the mix, Competition among players is not a bad thing, Let the cream rise to the top. Fran seems to see a need, I trust his judgement. I'm not degrading any player on the roster or any player coming in, As far as having confidence in Williams or Bohannon, Who knows, Really besides Fran and the staff.

And as DanL pointed out it's good to have plenty of guards on the team. College basketball has been guard-dominated for quite some time. I was just curious who are best prospects are to shift between the point and 2.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Fran is far more confident in Williams and Bohannon at the PG spot, its to bad none of you do.

drama queen

 

[gilligan19]

Fran is looking for the best fit and said it might be guard

 

[gilligan19]

drama queen

who me or the posters demanding Fran go after so n so as they would become the best player on the team.

 

[Scott559]

Geez dude, Who said anything about Vital or Moore becoming the best player on the team, " Hyperbole for $500 Alex".

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Fran is far more confident in Williams and Bohannon at the PG spot, its to bad none of you do.

Who cares? He was also high on Dickerson at one time. Fran's track record with PG's is less than stellar.

 

[gilligan19]

Geez dude, Who said anything about Vital or Moore becoming the best player on the team, " Hyperbole for $500 Alex".

read the posts about those 2.

 

[jdv77]

I am not worried about having too many guards on the roster. Coach McCaffery recruits a fairly diverse variety of skill sets. Bohannon is a shooter. If McCaffery were to land someone like Moore, you might see Bohannon get more minutes at the 2. Williams played on the wing a fair amount in high school. So you could see him playing without having the ball in his hands.

If Vital is a combo guard, you could see him being utilized like Bohannon.

If Coach McCaffery lands another player, it doesn't mean that he dislikes his current players. It just means that he thinks the player adds something of value to the roster.

 

[hansenhawk]

It's not that we are not confident, well actually I guess that is exactly what it is.

We are not confident because Williams didn't really play at all and Bohannon is just an incoming freshman.

So yeah, we aren't confident. Should we be confident? Convince me.

 

[gilligan19]

the PG don't have to be big scorers, Fran likes his Forward/WG's to do the scoring,

Marble/White
White/Uthoff
Uthoff/Jok

the pg's get them the ball where they can score this is where those so called meaningless stats dictate how good a PG is, and how important the PG is to this and any team in the country is.

Woolridge lead the team and the BT IN ASSISTS and scoring because there really weren't that many scoring options on that team.

another difference between Fran and Dr. Tom, is that Davis wanted his PG to score, Fran does not.

Gatens was not a PG and Matt Gatens could play the SG/WG. Cartwright was not a big scorer but he led the team in assists.

Marble was WG/SG/SF, this fall all Williams and Bohanonn will have to do is get assists and avg for Williams 7-8 ppg and 5-6 ppg for Bohannon,

Jok if he comes back has the potential 19-20 ppg
Uhl 12-13 ppg


then after that it will 4-8 ppg depending on mpg played and who starts,
these are the 3 pretty much written in stone
PG Williams
SG Jok
SF Uhl

after that it is very much up in the air,m Fran has players for multiple combinations, in the end the theme with Fran its not so much about who STARTS, but who is in there at the end of the game,

will it be defenders that can shoot FT's and handle the ball or will be 3 point shooter that can catch up. this includes either a small linup or a Tall lineup. Kriener is 6'10 but has longer arms and can jump higher than Woodbury and has range to 3.

or Jones at 6'8 can rebound and shoot the 3 and might be quicker than Kriener. but is a better FT shooter, the better FT shooter gives Jones the edge in late game situations no matter what the score.

Jok will play no matter what unless he is in foul trouble, meaning he has fouled out.

this could also lead to 6'1 Bohannon playing the point while 6'6 Williams plays the SG, Fran has more options this season that he did not have in the 15-16 season,

1 more note to add in the 12-13 season Fran had these for starters
FR PG Clemmons
FR SG Gesell
JR WG/SF Marble
SO F White
FR C Woodbury and that team won 25 games and reached the NIT Championship on the way they did this
beat Maryland on their court
beat Virginia on their court and in the process broke Virginia's 19 game home winning streak, which included wins over Duke and UNC.

also by the BT season Gesell had switched place with Clemmons in the lineup.

somehow I think Fran knows what he is doing and I feel this years team will and is better thanthe 12-13 season team.

this seasons team will have these for starters in my opinion

PG SO 6'6 Williams VS FR 6'2 Clemmons
SG SR 6'6 Jok VS FR 6'2 Gesell
SF/WG JR 6'8 Uhl VS JR 6'6 Marble
PF FR 6'9 Cook vs SO 6'9 White
C FR 7'1 Woodbury vs FR 6'10 Kriener

 

[TJHawkeye]

Watching the videos of Bohannon, he is a very good shooter and passer, but does not appear to be a really quick ball handler and driver. I think that's why many board posters would like to see that option on the team. There are games you can get away without that guy, but also some games when the defense is taking away the passing lanes and you need a pg that can really break down his man off the dribble. That isn't putting CW or JB down. They are good players, but at this point in their careers, they are not a Ferrell or Arcidiacono.

 

[hawksauce]

the PG don't have to be big scorers, Fran likes his Forward/WG's to do the scoring,

Marble/White
White/Uthoff
Uthoff/Jok

the pg's get them the ball where they can score this is where those so called meaningless stats dictate how good a PG is, and how important the PG is to this and any team in the country is.

Woolridge lead the team and the BT IN ASSISTS and scoring because there really weren't that many scoring options on that team.

another difference between Fran and Dr. Tom, is that Davis wanted his PG to score, Fran does not.

Gatens was not a PG and Matt Gatens could play the SG/WG. Cartwright was not a big scorer but he led the team in assists.

Marble was WG/SG/SF, this fall all Williams and Bohanonn will have to do is get assists and avg for Williams 7-8 ppg and 5-6 ppg for Bohannon,

Jok if he comes back has the potential 19-20 ppg
Uhl 12-13 ppg


then after that it will 4-8 ppg depending on mpg played and who starts,
these are the 3 pretty much written in stone
PG Williams
SG Jok
SF Uhl

after that it is very much up in the air,m Fran has players for multiple combinations, in the end the theme with Fran its not so much about who STARTS, but who is in there at the end of the game,

will it be defenders that can shoot FT's and handle the ball or will be 3 point shooter that can catch up. this includes either a small linup or a Tall lineup. Kriener is 6'10 but has longer arms and can jump higher than Woodbury and has range to 3.

or Jones at 6'8 can rebound and shoot the 3 and might be quicker than Kriener. but is a better FT shooter, the better FT shooter gives Jones the edge in late game situations no matter what the score.

Jok will play no matter what unless he is in foul trouble, meaning he has fouled out.

this could also lead to 6'1 Bohannon playing the point while 6'6 Williams plays the SG, Fran has more options this season that he did not have in the 15-16 season,

1 more note to add in the 12-13 season Fran had these for starters
FR PG Clemmons
FR SG Gesell
JR WG/SF Marble
SO F White
FR C Woodbury and that team won 25 games and reached the NIT Championship on the way they did this
beat Maryland on their court
beat Virginia on their court and in the process broke Virginia's 19 game home winning streak, which included wins over Duke and UNC.

also by the BT season Gesell had switched place with Clemmons in the lineup.

somehow I think Fran knows what he is doing and I feel this years team will and is better thanthe 12-13 season team.

this seasons team will have these for starters in my opinion

PG SO 6'6 Williams VS FR 6'2 Clemmons
SG SR 6'6 Jok VS FR 6'2 Gesell
SF/WG JR 6'8 Uhl VS JR 6'6 Marble
PF FR 6'9 Cook vs SO 6'9 White
C FR 7'1 Woodbury vs FR 6'10 Kriener

 

[Hawk_4shur]

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/positionless-basketball-taking-hold-college

The only reason I'd like to see another guard is that we currently have five and I'm sure we'd like to use Jok as a wing quite often. That means we are a little light on guards.

But keeping with the ideas behind positionless basketball, which we have imo been moving towards throughout the McCaffery era, certainly Bohannon and Williams can play what was called the two. Moss and Williams could play the two or three. Jok the two or three. Only Ellingson seems bound to shooting guard.

My simple belief is soon people will have trouble determining exactly who our point guard is, and that will be a good thing.

This seems to be the way of CB. You have guards that can attack the basket and make good decisions, but it's hard to tell who the PG is. Example - who was Mich State's PG?

It would be great to get to place where Hawks have multiple guys that be the "PG" on any given play.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

the PG don't have to be big scorers, Fran likes his Forward/WG's to do the scoring,

Marble/White
White/Uthoff
Uthoff/Jok

the pg's get them the ball where they can score this is where those so called meaningless stats dictate how good a PG is, and how important the PG is to this and any team in the country is.

Woolridge lead the team and the BT IN ASSISTS and scoring because there really weren't that many scoring options on that team.

another difference between Fran and Dr. Tom, is that Davis wanted his PG to score, Fran does not.

Gatens was not a PG and Matt Gatens could play the SG/WG. Cartwright was not a big scorer but he led the team in assists.

Marble was WG/SG/SF, this fall all Williams and Bohanonn will have to do is get assists and avg for Williams 7-8 ppg and 5-6 ppg for Bohannon,

Jok if he comes back has the potential 19-20 ppg
Uhl 12-13 ppg


then after that it will 4-8 ppg depending on mpg played and who starts,
these are the 3 pretty much written in stone
PG Williams
SG Jok
SF Uhl

after that it is very much up in the air,m Fran has players for multiple combinations, in the end the theme with Fran its not so much about who STARTS, but who is in there at the end of the game,

will it be defenders that can shoot FT's and handle the ball or will be 3 point shooter that can catch up. this includes either a small linup or a Tall lineup. Kriener is 6'10 but has longer arms and can jump higher than Woodbury and has range to 3.

or Jones at 6'8 can rebound and shoot the 3 and might be quicker than Kriener. but is a better FT shooter, the better FT shooter gives Jones the edge in late game situations no matter what the score.

Jok will play no matter what unless he is in foul trouble, meaning he has fouled out.

this could also lead to 6'1 Bohannon playing the point while 6'6 Williams plays the SG, Fran has more options this season that he did not have in the 15-16 season,

1 more note to add in the 12-13 season Fran had these for starters
FR PG Clemmons
FR SG Gesell
JR WG/SF Marble
SO F White
FR C Woodbury and that team won 25 games and reached the NIT Championship on the way they did this
beat Maryland on their court
beat Virginia on their court and in the process broke Virginia's 19 game home winning streak, which included wins over Duke and UNC.

also by the BT season Gesell had switched place with Clemmons in the lineup.

somehow I think Fran knows what he is doing and I feel this years team will and is better thanthe 12-13 season team.

this seasons team will have these for starters in my opinion

PG SO 6'6 Williams VS FR 6'2 Clemmons
SG SR 6'6 Jok VS FR 6'2 Gesell
SF/WG JR 6'8 Uhl VS JR 6'6 Marble
PF FR 6'9 Cook vs SO 6'9 White
C FR 7'1 Woodbury vs FR 6'10 Kriener

Fran doesn't want his PG's to score? When did he ever say that?

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

This seems to be the way of CB. You have guards that can attack the basket and make good decisions, but it's hard to tell who the PG is. Example - who was Mich State's PG?

It would be great to get to place where Hawks have multiple guys that be the "PG" on any given play.

Nairn was their pg. He was hurt off and on all year.

 

[gilligan19]

Fran doesn't want his PG's to score? When did he ever say that?

let me put it another way Fran system "DOES NOT REQUIRE", his pg's to score

 

[Quintana]

drama queen

who me or the posters demanding Fran go after so n so as they would become the best player on the team.

you. definitely you. you just reinforced the accusation with your reply, FCOL.

 

[hooper56]

This pg discussion is comical. Some of you guys are way way off. If Coach can find a guy who helps our pg depth he will take him. If not then he is just fine with who he has. Williams is really good.

 

[Hawkaholic73]

I think it would be fair to say that Fran has not yet had a pg who is a good scorer while at Iowa. I don't see any indication that scoring points has been discouraged from the pg position.

 

[Suterman]

A scoring PG gives the defense one more thing to worry about. It can be the difference between good (Mike Gesell) and great (Yogi Ferrel)

 

[gilligan19]

This seems to be the way of CB. You have guards that can attack the basket and make good decisions, but it's hard to tell who the PG is. Example - who was Mich State's PG?

It would be great to get to place where Hawks have multiple guys that be the "PG" on any given play.

this is what Marble did for IA and in the 2012-13 season he had 112 assists, Gesell had 89 and Clemmons had 105 even May had 66 assists,

this is why Fran is getting players that can multiple position and can handle the ball, this season Gesell had 205 assists while Clemmons had 121 assists, 3rd high was Jok with just 46.

this fall Williams will take over and in his limited playing time he had 27 point, 17 rebounds, 6 assists, 6 T/0 and 4 steals.

to add to what Gesell did he had 44 steals which led the BT and Jok had 40 good for 2nd in the BT, plus he played in 1 less game.

give me a PG that leads the BT in steals and 3rd in the BT in assists and 17th nationally. I will take that every year.

Jok can and does handle the ball as he can play the 1-2-3, Ellingson can play either the SG or WG,, in HS Moss played the 1-2-3, Bohannon can play the 1 and 2, that makes 4 that can do the job at the guard position, Jones, Uhl and Baer can and are pretty good ball handlers.

now all of sudden Fran has 7 that can all bring the ball up the court.

strange how some of you want a PG to score, Well Bohannon can do just that, oh wait now he is only good enough to be a SG.

 

[Legend12]

to add to what Gesell did he had 44 steals which led the BT

You can keep posting this over and over but it won't make it true.

 

[gilligan19]

A scoring PG gives the defense one more thing to worry about. It can be the difference between good (Mike Gesell) and great (Yogi Ferrel)

how many FF did Yogi take Indiana to?

Woolridge under Dr. Tom led the BT IN SCORING and ASSISTS, yet he did not lead IA to a BT championship let alone make it to a Sweet 16,

no the issue this season was Jok played the 3 and Uthoff played the 4 and while Woodbury did lead the BT in rebounding but was 5th on the team in scoring.

Clemmons was 3rd with 8.9 ppg, Gesell was 4th with 8.1 ppg,

the starters ended up the top 5 scorers, sorry but when it came to the FR nobody really stepped up, Baer 4.8 ppg, Ellingson 2.8 ppg, Wagner 2.6 ppg, Fleming 2.0 ppg and Williams 1.0 ppg.

SO Uhl 6th in scoring 6.0 ppg, 3rd 119 rebounds, 45.0% from 3 led the team,
Jok 40.2 %
Baer 39.4%
Uthoff 38.2%
Gesell 34.8%

were the top 5 3 point % shooters.

strange Gesell was 1st in assists on the team, 1st in the BT in steals, 4th in scoring and 5th in 3 point shooting %. yet he is the most trashed player on this board.

 

[CyCity]

this is what Marble did for IA and in the 2012-13 season he had 112 assists, Gesell had 89 and Clemmons had 105 even May had 66 assists,

this is why Fran is getting players that can multiple position and can handle the ball, this season Gesell had 205 assists while Clemmons had 121 assists, 3rd high was Jok with just 46.

this fall Williams will take over and in his limited playing time he had 27 point, 17 rebounds, 6 assists, 6 T/0 and 4 steals.

to add to what Gesell did he had 44 steals which led the BT and Jok had 40 good for 2nd in the BT, plus he played in 1 less game.

give me a PG that leads the BT in steals and 3rd in the BT in assists and 17th nationally. I will take that every year.

Jok can and does handle the ball as he can play the 1-2-3, Ellingson can play either the SG or WG,, in HS Moss played the 1-2-3, Bohannon can play the 1 and 2, that makes 4 that can do the job at the guard position, Jones, Uhl and Baer can and are pretty good ball handlers.

now all of sudden Fran has 7 that can all bring the ball up the court.

strange how some of you want a PG to score, Well Bohannon can do just that, oh wait now he is only good enough to be a SG.

Jok can not play the 1

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Dan, you make the point about positionless modern basketball. That's all well and good, if you have the players that can run the necessary functions of an offense regardless of the position.
From what I've seen of Iowa's roster, they are lacking that primary ball-handler that can direct the offense. Whether it's a point guard, point forward, or point center.
Williams seems the most likely candidate, and while he had some nice moments at the end of the season I wouldn't say it was overwhelmingly convincing that he is that elusive primary ballhandler that can run the show.

 

[hawksauce]

to add to what Gesell did he had 44 steals which led the BT and Jok had 40 good for 2nd in the BT, plus he played in 1 less game.

give me a PG that leads the BT in steals and 3rd in the BT in assists and 17th nationally. I will take that every year.

STEALS

1. Ethan Happ Wisconsin 63
2. Derrick Walton Michigan 59
3. Corey Sanders Rutgers 48
4. Tai Webster Nebraska 46
5. Melo Trimble Maryland 45
6. Mike Gesell Iowa 44
7. Rasheed Sulaimon Maryland 42
Shep Garner Penn St. 42
Malcolm Hill Illinois 42
10. Kendrick Nunn Illinois 41
11. Peter Jok Iowa 40

 

[DanL53]

Dan, you make the point about positionless modern basketball. That's all well and good, if you have the players that can run the necessary functions of an offense regardless of the position.
From what I've seen of Iowa's roster, they are lacking that primary ball-handler that can direct the offense. Whether it's a point guard, point forward, or point center.
Williams seems the most likely candidate, and while he had some nice moments at the end of the season I wouldn't say it was overwhelmingly convincing that he is that elusive primary ballhandler that can run the show.

In other words do our guys have enough talent. Shoot, there are still posters debating the same thing about Clemmons and Gesell.

 

[gilligan19]

Jok can not play the 1

he did in HS. which is one of the reasons why he was named IA Mr. BB and was why after his FR year in HS was ranked #1 in the nation in his class by NY2LA and TOP 5 everybody else.

he is like Marble in how he can handle the ball. there is a difference between playing the 1 and being the starter at the 1, that is what I mean by being able to play multiple positions. its what some call VERSATILITY. and this team now has that, after 6 years of rtecruiting Fran now has the most versatile group of players to works with

 

[CyCity]

he did in HS. which is one of the reasons why he was named IA Mr. BB and was why after his FR year in HS was ranked #1 in the nation in his class by NY2LA and TOP 5 everybody else.

he is like Marble in how he can handle the ball. there is a difference between playing the 1 and being the starter at the 1, that is what I mean by being able to play multiple positions. its what some call VERSATILITY. and this team now has that, after 6 years of rtecruiting Fran now has the most versatile group of players to works with

You're delusional

 

[imacc]

hey little buddy(gilligan) why are you throwing jok under the bus by trying to move him to a position that he wasnt recruited by fran to play

 

[gilligan19]

STEALS

1. Ethan Happ Wisconsin 63
2. Derrick Walton Michigan 59
3. Corey Sanders Rutgers 48
4. Tai Webster Nebraska 46
5. Melo Trimble Maryland 45
6. Mike Gesell Iowa 44
7. Rasheed Sulaimon Maryland 42
Shep Garner Penn St. 42
Malcolm Hill Illinois 42
10. Kendrick Nunn Illinois 41
11. Peter Jok Iowa 40

where did you find that as I went looking and could not find it and was going off of what a mod was saying on another site,

but still to have Gesell 6th in the BT and Jok who played in one less game finishing in 11th is pretty good. they combined to get 84 steals, which other BT come close to that number?

now all you have to do is post his standing in Assists and scoring as well as Joks.

 

[imacc]

where did you find that as I went looking and could not find it and was going off of what a mod was saying on another site,

but still to have Gesell 6th in the BT and Jok who played in one less game finishing in 11th is pretty good. they combined to get 84 steals, which other BT come close to that number?

now all you have to do is post his standing in Assists and scoring as well as Joks.

probably trimble and suliamon just off the top of my head but maybe they dont count

 

[gilligan19]

hey little buddy(gilligan) why are you throwing jok under the bus by trying to move him to a position that he wasnt recruited by fran to play

who said Fran recruited him to play any particular position? also explain to me WHY Fran played him at the SG position in the 14-15 season?

again Jok played the SG position in JR High thru his SR year in HS and was named IA Mr. BB for playing the SG.

WHY ARE YOU THROWING Jok UNDER THE Bus by saying HE CAN'T PLAY SG.?

 

[imacc]

who said Fran recruited him to play any particular position? also explain to me WHY Fran played him at the SG position in the 14-15 season?

again Jok played the SG position in JR High thru his SR year in HS and was named IA Mr. BB for playing the SG.

WHY ARE YOU THROWING Jok UNDER THE Bus by saying HE CAN'T PLAY SG.?

you had him playing the pg there gilly but then again you say so many things that you would forget that