I suppose Dev Marble doesn't count because many would say he is not a "pure" pg, but he certainly played that position for Iowa. He was much more effective when he had the ball in his hands so he could create off the dribble.
Thoughts/Questions On PG...
- Thread starter EZ2BJZ
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Do you see Williams eventually doing similar things that Marble did for Iowa? It appears to me that Williams can create off the dribble and I believe that he is quicker than Marble. I am not sure that he can shoot from outside as welI as Marble but he hasn't played enough yet to make that judgement.
I think that Fran would certainly take a combo guard that can shoot from outside if one were available with this last scholarship.. I don't think that he necessarily feels that the player would need to be a true PG. Is that how you see it as well?
Did you watch the Iowa games this season? Did you notice Jok fumbling the ball around at some point in a lot of games? I disagree with a lot of what you say, and this is a pretty bold statement, but thinking that Jok can play PG in the Big 10 may be the most inaccurate thing you have posted.
Killroys posts are like visual/mental sewage.
Kakert, please return his money and ban him.
Kakert, please return his money and ban him.
Pete did not play the 1 in HS, Peter Nixon did. The only time you saw Pete bring the ball up the floor was when they were doubling to deny him the ball in the half court, he does not have the handles to play PG in the B1G.
Now I know you're going to reference 3 years ago when Pete was recruited Fran mentioning he could play the 1, 2, or 3. Fran also at 1 time compared someone (maybe Gabe?) to Dennis Rodman and said JO was the best shooter he'd ever seen, he's know for a bit of hyperbole now and then.
I think you will see BB continue to trend this way, I do like the fact that in most the interviews I have listened to or read that one of the first things each of the players discusses in regard to what they need to work on in the off season is ball handling, I'm sure this isn't the first year, However it's nice to know that Fran has made it a point of emphasis with each player. He knows being able to drive and attack from multiple positions is a key to being a real contender in March.
like with Marble he to could play the 1-2-3, there is a BIG difference between playing the 1 and being the starter at the 1,
Marble in his JR year led the team in assists while Clemmons and Gesell who were actually playing the 1's were #2 and #3 in assists. Jok on a number of occasions did in fact bring the ball up the court,
why is it so hard for poster to admit that Jok can play the 1-2-3 positions?
every site out there lists Jok as a GUARD, not SF, way to many non-qualified talent evaluators on here. claiming that certain players CAN'T play certain positions.
posters need to really read my posts, Jok can play the 1-2 AND 3 positions, THAT MEANS HE CAN PLAY THE 1, NO WAY DID I SAY Jok WILL BE the starter at the PG SPOT. just like Marble played the 1-2 AND 3 does/did not mean he was the starting PG/1.
what is so HARD ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THAT.
what is so HARD ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THAT.
I think you need to understand that there's a huge difference between a POINT GUARD and a SHOOTING GUARD. The only similarity between the two is that they share the word GUARD. Nick Stauskas, Bryn Forbes, Pete, I can go on, are all GUARDS but don't have the handles to be a POINT GUARD.
I would not be comfortable with Jok playing the pg position. I have not seen anything like the ball handling skills needed for that job. I don't think the coaches would be comfortable with that scenario either.
gilligan/kilroy remains as challenged as ever.
The statement was that Jok couldn't play the 1. As in the point guard position.
What he is most lacking is in his ability to handle the ball. He's gone from being a disaster trying to put the ball on the floor earlier in his career to marginally competent this past season.
To say that he could be the primary ball handler is absurd.
The statement was that Jok couldn't play the 1. As in the point guard position.
What he is most lacking is in his ability to handle the ball. He's gone from being a disaster trying to put the ball on the floor earlier in his career to marginally competent this past season.
To say that he could be the primary ball handler is absurd.
Yeah, and fran actually compared Moss to Marble except that Moss has a better shot and a quicker first step. Fran said that Marble was a little bit ahead of where Moss is now however.
gilligan since I coached AAU basketball, using your messed up definition, I am a qualified talent evaluator. I question your ability to evaluate talent if you think that Jok can or has played the PG position at Iowa. you keep saying that there is a difference between playing the 1 and starting at the 1 like that justifies your argument. Jok is not going to start at the 1 or play the 1. Have you ever in your life admitted that you are wrong? Or are you still waiting for the first time you are wrong?
There is no way Pete can play the one. His handles are iffy and I'm being generous. When he gets in to the lane it gets real ugly, real fast. Pete would be the worst point guard in the league.
Marble 3 point % by year
FR 26.8%%
SO 39.2%%
JR 32.7%
SR 34.9%
this means that Marble was not this great 3 point shooter, also in Marbles 1st season Cartwrigtht was the PG. from his SO thru SR year EITHER Gesell or Clemmons were the PG's.
Valentine for MSU filled in for Nairn as the 1. Valentine main target was Forbes, funny how wrong some of you really are,
again handling the ball like a 1 DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE 1.
some of you are just arguing to argue. plus you twist my words to justify the argument.
good as those are the facts that can't be alteredI just can't go on.
What you call facts are often untrue statements you try and pass off as facts because you are a brain dead invalid that can't comprehend anything beyond what you want to believe to be true.
I have heard and read a few times that Fran wants Williams to play the 1-3, with his length he could be very versatile.
Fran also likes multiple ball handlers on the court at the same time. Factor in that Connor at 6'5" and pretty solid already with one more year of high school yet to go can also play more than one position.
Isiah Moss said in his most recent interview that ball handling has been his biggest focus.
I think competition is a good thing for any team and bringing in Vital or Moore could make the team deeper. I think Moore's skills would be more complementary to what we currently have on the team, but if Vital chooses Iowa I won't be disappointed.
Though it was a very small sample size, by the end of the season as Williams played more he showed an ability to drive and float the ball over his defender due to his freakish length. If he plays PG he should use his 7' wingspan to his advantage and going over the top to beat your defender is another way besides blowing by everybody.
Add Moore into the mix and you can have one ball handler that can blow by people and another than can go over the top of any guard. Mix in Peter Jok to pass off to and it makes one wish for November.
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I can see both Williams and Moss being able to do Dev Marble-esq things off the dribble.
He did not play point at Valley, if anything he was more of a post....he would post up a lot
Do you get refunded each time you get banned? Also, can you speed that process up a little bit. I don't mean to be rude, however; the board is so much better minus you posting.
But...but... Herby saw him bring the ball up the floor once so he can certainly play the 1!!
Iowa tied for the best record in the Big Ten in Woolridges senior year and swept the team they tied with.
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Under Tom Davis we played for a while with a PG named Troy Skinner. I am not sure how many games he started but I remember him playing a lot. Bohannon is quicker than Troy and gets his shot off faster. Troy didn't have the benefit of playing AAU ball during the summer and playing a lot of teams around the country like Jordan. With Williams and Moss to add to the guard play, I don't think that ball handling will be an issue. Several posters here have said that Williams and Moss can break down their man off the dribble. If we could add Moore or Vital this year then our guard depth would become a strength instead of a question mark.
Bohannon will need to be tremendously better than Skinner to help the team. That had to be the low point of pg play under Davis.
Anecdotally, I remember going to the old Fieldhouse and playing pick up games during that era. This was when the players would sometimes just show up and get into an occasional game. I remember standing next to Val Barnes once. He was definitely not the 6'2" they had him listed at. A lot closer to 6'.
As for Skinner, he was not impressive against the average former Iowa high school players that were on the court with him. You would have been hard pressed to say he was a D1 B1G scholarship player. Which was consistent with how much we saw him struggle against the competition he faced in games.
Anecdotally, I remember going to the old Fieldhouse and playing pick up games during that era. This was when the players would sometimes just show up and get into an occasional game. I remember standing next to Val Barnes once. He was definitely not the 6'2" they had him listed at. A lot closer to 6'.
As for Skinner, he was not impressive against the average former Iowa high school players that were on the court with him. You would have been hard pressed to say he was a D1 B1G scholarship player. Which was consistent with how much we saw him struggle against the competition he faced in games.
Occasionally bringing the ball up the floor is not "playing the 1 position". I'm as big of a Peter Jok fan as there is, I'm just saying that he is not a good enough ball handler at this time to play the point guard position. Dev Marble had better handles than Pete currently does. Yes many sites listed Pete as a SG, which he is capable of playing, but you won't find one that lists him at PG.
You're getting right back into your same old routine where you state something that isn't accurate and then when anyone disagrees with you, you start endlessly arguing and slinging insults. Calm down.....
Umm, Yogi won a BIG championship and took his team to the Sweet 16.
I would take that kind of season in a heartbeat. Is that not a good enough season for you or something?
Someone playing the PG spot is different than putting a difference maker at the PG spot on the floor. Nothing but respect for Gesell, but he started and ended his career as a game manager. I get where we were when he was offered and the trials and tribulations of rebuilding the program, but looking ahead, the bar has to be set higher. We need a guy who creates a match up advantage or at least a push through some combination of quickness, size, creativity, defense or junk yard dog mentality.
I cringe when I hear Fran start his French surrender speak about "this guy being able to play a little point and these other guys being capable ball handlers." If he wants to tinker with guys at the 3-4, 4-5, or 2-3 great, experiment away, but we need a PG who the team will rally around in the final minutes to make a big play. This does not require them to be a 5 star recruit. Look around the country and you see plenty of these guys on teams from coast to coast.
I cringe when I hear Fran start his French surrender speak about "this guy being able to play a little point and these other guys being capable ball handlers." If he wants to tinker with guys at the 3-4, 4-5, or 2-3 great, experiment away, but we need a PG who the team will rally around in the final minutes to make a big play. This does not require them to be a 5 star recruit. Look around the country and you see plenty of these guys on teams from coast to coast.
It is really dependent on how you view the position. Fran may not see it the way you do. Heck Villanova had the best backcourt in America and I am not sure any of those kids was strictly a "pure pg".
Brunson is definitely a pure PG. Arcidiacono was recruited as a PG but is probably more of a combo guard
Valid points. At the end of the day, I agree, maybe "pure" point guards went out with big men with low post moves. I just hope we get more dynamic at the 1-2 than we have been in the past few years. You can survive a 1 who maybe doesn't have a great offensive skill set if he does other things, but we have to get more production out the 2.
Another incorrect "fact" presented to the board by our resident ritard.
Skinner played AAU and on the Iowa Select team, both of which did travel and play against elite level teams from across the country.
I will stand corrected on that point (because you are more knowledgeable on the state of Iowa athletics than I am) but please don't confuse me with someone else on this board. By the way, ritard is a musical term used in music which indicates to slow down. The other word with the correct spelling shouldn't be used to describe anyone who participates on this board regardless of whether they infuriate you or not.
Skinner was IA's Mr. BB and that is why he offered Skinner, 99% knew that Skinner should have went to UNI to play for Eldon Miller,
Dr.Tom was under a lot of pressure to keep IA kids home after seeing Lafrentz go to Kansas. so that is the only reason why Skinner even got the offer.
Skiiners best attribute was his 3 point shooting. Kent McCausland wasn't fast but he was a excellent 3 point shooter.
getting over 200 assist in one season and leading the team in steals, 4th in rebounding, just what more was he supposed to in reguard to these LITTLE Things that Gesell needed to do,
You are just a fountain of misinformation. Skinner was done at Iowa by the time Lafrentz graduated from HS.
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