From HawkeyeReport's.com Tom Kakert, who was at Madison Square Garden tonight.
Video: Tom Brands on the state of Iowa Wrestling
- Thread starter Blair Sanderson
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The first step in moving on is acceptance/acknowledgment and our leader just acknowledged that we are a long ways away from PSU. Now, what's he going to do? This video is a prime example of the clowns who seem to think Brands preaches a style that is conservative. Watch any video he has, he pleads with his wrestler to attack. He can't make them do it. 2 things he can get better at though is recruiting and scheduling. Time to pick the latter part up big time.
Most subdued I've seen Brands in awhile. Long trip back to IC.
No one claims that Brands doesn't preach an attacking style. Getting your guys to do it, coaching them to do it is the key.
You can coach guys all you want but when you get guys ranked outside the top 10 and Penn State gets guys like Mark Hall you're going to lose 9 out of 10 times.
I keep hearing the same thing we need to score more points we need to get more take downs. The coaches need/have to make some changes to get this done. We just can't keep saying this and not doing something different to make it happen. Gilman's match was winnable and we didn't do it. I think we were over matched at 133 and 149.
But certainly not at 125. Gilman is not 2 take downs worse than Mega. That was a match we should have won.
But certainly not at 125. Gilman is not 2 take downs worse than Mega. That was a match we should have won.
This is exactly right. What you say isn't what counts. Anyone can say the right things.
This is just a thought and pure speculation, but I wonder if the Brands method of hounding on guys to be aggressive is actually counterproductive toward that end? It has been looking as if our guys seem to tense up under that environment, like they're wrestling with the weight of the world on their shoulders. It seems like the teams with guys who most let it fly are the ones with coaches who are more relaxed about how they preach that same attacking style. Again, just a new idea I've been thinking about.
I'm a Penn State fan, but I have learned in the past year to really respect Iowa and their proud tradition. Yes Penn State and Iowa have a lot of differences in wrestling, but they both can do good for the sport as a whole. I know Cael preaches to go 100 percent all the time like any other coach, but he also preaches to have a good time while you're doing it and the outcome won't matter as much as if you weren't having a good time. Nothing against Coach Brands, but it seems he's very tense and the wrestlers feed off him. Iowa wrestlers seem like they take a loss harder than Penn State wrestlers do.
We need to successfully recruit the athletic, ultra talented guys that are able to do what Brands teaches and preaches.
Guys like Metcalf, Ramos, and Gilman can do that. Marinelli will be able to do that. If we had gotten Nolf, do you think he would just shut his offense down and go super conservative? No. It isn't all that difficult to understand.
Guys like Clark, Sorensen, and DSJ need to gut out wins over guys that are more athletic than they are. Other guys we have are just not talented and athletic enough to hang with the high AA types.
Burak's career has not been that much worse than Macintosh's and Macintosh was the #1 pfp wrestler in HS and Burak was not a highly recruited kid. Our coaches are more than fine. We need to recruit better.
Guys like Metcalf, Ramos, and Gilman can do that. Marinelli will be able to do that. If we had gotten Nolf, do you think he would just shut his offense down and go super conservative? No. It isn't all that difficult to understand.
Guys like Clark, Sorensen, and DSJ need to gut out wins over guys that are more athletic than they are. Other guys we have are just not talented and athletic enough to hang with the high AA types.
Burak's career has not been that much worse than Macintosh's and Macintosh was the #1 pfp wrestler in HS and Burak was not a highly recruited kid. Our coaches are more than fine. We need to recruit better.
I agree with your take. Brands style of motivation isn't for everyone.
"We have to do some things". Let me help you Tom, show Morningstar the door and get somebody in the room that believes a takedown is actually a good thing.
Listening to Burroughs--he says that you constantly have to evolve. This is in technique and training and recruiting. We have evolved a little in each, but not enough.
What I got from the vid, is that it's mental. He directly mentions Clark. And, i bet he's not the only one. Sounds like Tom knows they need to make some changes. It will be interesting see who/what is changed.
I guess that's my point. Brands needs to point the finger at himself. What could Clark do? That guy was a beast. I thought the finalists all had good tournaments. No way Sorensen or Clark were going to win. Gilman was a tossup against a guy who was going to use Gilman's aggression against him, so all his shots had to be perfect. The rest of the AA are crapshoots. Once you are in condos, you are lucky to AA. Meyer, despite horrible strategy on coaches part did good. Brooks was pretty good. Burak did good. My beef is with the rest of the guys. That's a program thing. This no attacking thing is not new. These holes in the lineup are apparent years in advance. PSU has bench guys who could start for us.
What could Clark do? For one how about getting on a world class nutrition and weight program and transform his body into that if s national champion 133lbr? Cory couldn't beat the last two guys in the finals bc of lack of strength, plain and simple.
That falls on Brands. That's a program thing. You think a 21 year old kid has access to a world class nutrition and strength training program on his own? The football team is on a world class nutrition and strength program. Every guy is. Why not wrestling? That is what a program is for--to provide you with things you individually can't, and to guide you. Like I said, don't blam the wrestlers Brands. Blame yourself.
Our coaches are more than fine, but we need to recruit better?
I'm curious, who is responsible for recruiting?
You can't say he "just needs to recruit better". that's like saying I just need to find a super hot girl to marry. Problem is im broke, fat and ugly. point is that the top guys are not jumping at the chance to wrestle for brands.
So why is that?
Iowa has the history so that is not the problem. is it brands himself the recruits don't like? is it the results were have seen lately? is it the training methods? is it the assistants? All of these are things that the head coach has control of.
So why is that?
Iowa has the history so that is not the problem. is it brands himself the recruits don't like? is it the results were have seen lately? is it the training methods? is it the assistants? All of these are things that the head coach has control of.
This.
If I had a son who was a top-recruit, I would much rather him go to PSU than Iowa; and I'm an Iowa fan. Anybody who thinks a loose, fun-loving kid like Spencer Lee is going to be a Hawk is kidding themselves.
It just might be that there are few out there anymore that will truly respond to Brands old time style of coaching. And if he cannot get them he is not successful.
That is something that really needs a good hard look at by the AD and company.
Just maybe Gable's way which is Brand's Way just does not work well enough anymore unless you get a specific type of recruit. And getting enough of them who are good enough is no longer possible.
That is something that really needs a good hard look at by the AD and company.
Just maybe Gable's way which is Brand's Way just does not work well enough anymore unless you get a specific type of recruit. And getting enough of them who are good enough is no longer possible.
This should be a complete separate post right now! Here are some questions I would like answers to:
1. What are we selling and why isn't it working?
2. What are other programs selling and why is it working?
3. How do we defend negative recruiting?
4. Does our staff have the personal skills to garner the ELITE kids, if not what do we need to do? Is M* the guy to get that done? I think this is one reason Zadick gone.
5. Does the University of Iowa and Iowa City really have what it takes from an alumni base that tOSU and PSU have to garner ELITE recruits.
6. Have we adapted to recruiting the new breed of wrestling with powerful/explosive/athletic?
In saying all this, I think we have begun the change in recruiting philosophy since the last "big class" (Telford, Evans, etc). Just not enough to get the likes of Hall, Snyder, Nickal....I look forward to seeing the likes of Kemerer, Marinelli, Meijia and more of that to come with Gilman, Clark, Sorensen, Brooks, Stoll!
Agree, if you can get the Ramos's, Metcalf's, Gilman's, you will be good. But frankly Brands has been a poor recruiter in the past. Ask Gilman--Brands for a while acted like he didn't even want him. Up until a few years ago he didn't even start recruiting kids until the summer before their senior year. for a while all the good kids were locked up by then.
Barta needs to create a director of recruiting for wrestling.That person could keep in touch with programs all over the country. Start recruiting kids early. If it resulted in a better team, it would be well worth 100k or whatever it costs. Make it an upper weight wrestler too, just to get another body in the room.
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I agree with all of this. I would also add that it seems to extend beyond recruiting. Even with our best recruits, who are #1 at their weight class coming out of high school, Brands doesn't seem to be elevating their game. In fact, in many cases, they regress in college. This, I suppose, is another reason the best of the best may question coming here.
Obviously, there are exceptions (McD, Ramos, DSJ, Metcalf). But, more often than not, the collegiate results are not what you would hope for in our highest caliber recruits who may have been tough as nails in HS
And they need to make the S&C coach (even though they have to call him a S&C coach) just a coach and have a full time S&C guy-doesn't even need to be a wrestler-which they are allowed to do. With benefits etc, probably another 100k. So 200k to make program better. If Barta won't do that, then we have lost
I am a huge wrestling fan but don't claim to know as much wrestling as many of you. It seems to me part of the program's problem in recruiting is arrogance. I have seen quotes from Brands before to the effect of they only want guys that will buy in and not every wrestler is an Iowa wrestler. Brands has created this perception that only certain types of wrestlers will thrive in Iowa City. You create your own challenges when you limit the types of kids that are interested in your program before you've even started recruiting them. Brands seems like a coach employing twentieth century coaching philosophies and tactics well into the twenty first century. Rightly or wrongly, there are many elite kids that don't like his style.
Rabid goat - I think you hit a homerun on this one. I agree with what you said - and you're right, it is arrogance. It is arrogance to make a wrestler "buy in" to your particular coaching/wrestling philosophy as if there is only one way to skin a cat. It is arrogance to say "our program is so elite that only a certain breed of wrestler is welcome and can survive here." And, that is exactly what has happened here. And, that doesn't mean their incorrect in saying only a certain breed of wrestler will thrive at Iowa. As we've seen, the Metcalfs, McDonoughs, and Ramos of the world DO thrive at Iowa. But if your wrestling style is not about hand-fighting the opponent into oblivion and pushing him all over the mat, you're not going to thrive in the TnT system. You MIGHT have some success in SPITE of the TnT system, but you'll likely have greater success elsewhere.
Coaches' life; the best job in the world when you are winning - not worth a penny when you are not.
I'm not trying to start anything on this board. I like Iowa and Iowa wrestling because they never give up. Clark last night gave it everything he had and I admire that. I just want whats good for wrestling as a whole. Not just for Penn State or the Big Ten Conference.
They will learn from their losses and get better. Of course they weren't happy that they lost? Who would be? But I bet they all learned a lot from their losses and are just going to get better.
I'm pretty sure his comment was in response to yours - "Iowa wrestlers seem like they take a loss harder than Penn state wrestlers do."
Not sure I'd agree with that, Gilman last year got stuck in :52 seconds in the semifinals of the NCAA tournament by an unseeded wrestler, then only rebounded by sticking Nahshon Garrett while leading the whole match.
Meyer went down first round to unseeded wrestler, then proceeded to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against #4, #14, #6, and #9 seeded wrestlers to AA.
Point being, I think everyone 'takes a loss hard' at this level of wrestling, especially with the expectations that programs like Iowa, OSU, tOSU, PSU are now putting on themselves to be at the top year in and year out.
Why do we have a hard time recruiting? Maybe with some guys it is our tradition. If they grew up a fan of any other school they probably were dominated at one time or another and they didn't like it. They saw Iowa and wanted to beat them. When you wear the Hawkeye singlet, you have a target on your back and you get the very best from everyone.
We don't have any loose, fun-loving kids on our team?
I don't understand how a true Iowa fan can say that. If my son was wearing the PSU singlet, I would vomit. Now, my son is way to young to know if he will even wrestle or not. Right now it just consists of fun with dad, him telling me he wants to wrestle, pulling me into the other room, pushing my head down and covering for 2. All I know is as a student he can go anywhere other than PSU!! As an athlete we will see what the options are if there are any, just no PSU. It is not something I am concerned about in the slightest, because right now he likes camouflage and toy guns. Don't worry he doesn't get to shoot his first real gun until he turns 4. Additionally I am sure PSU fans don't want there children going to Iowa, it is a mutual feeling I would think.
I've been a Hawkeye fan for 50 years. When my won wrestled off-season he always wore an Iowa singlet. He watched Iowa meets with me and cheered for the Hawks.
But I'm a parent first, and a fan a distant second. I want what's best for my son, and my rooting interests don't even come close to entering the picture.
I'll answer the questions:
1. What are we selling and why isn't it working? Grind, grind, grind, Hard work, hard work, hard work. Kids aren't in love with that theory these days. You can get a lot of work done with new inventions
Kids can mow the lawn with a remote control lawn mower!
2. What are other programs selling and why is it working? Fun, funk, good in all positions INCLUDING the top position. 5 titles in 6 years. World Champion Burroughs, 4 timer Stieber/world champ Snyder.
3. How do we defend negative recruiting? Your product has to have some exciting traits to discuss. It can't be "tradition." Right now, 3 NCAA finalist out of the first 4 weights is probably the best recruiting pitch you have at low weights. Would have been nice to have stoll be healthy to say Last 4 upper weights All-Americans.
4. Does our staff have the personal skills to garner the ELITE kids, if not what do we need to do? Is M* the guy to get that done? I think this is one reason Zadick gone. I asked myself this question the other day. We think of Cael and sex appeal - Taylor, etc. But, John Smith and Eric Guerro you wouldn't necessarily think have a ton of sex appeal with the younger crowd, but they are obviously recruiting very well. WHY?
5. Does the University of Iowa and Iowa City really have what it takes from an alumni base that tOSU and PSU have to garner ELITE recruits.This one in think is an emphatic yes. I live in Michigan and still buy season tickets, send money for different things, etc.
6. Have we adapted to recruiting the new breed of wrestling with powerful/explosive/athletic? Kemerer, Meija, JRent, Marinelli, Kaleb Young, Luke Troy, Happel is a start. It's one Top 5 guy. It would be nice to get a Warner, Singletary, etc. (Top 10 type) guys again next year. Obviously Lee would right the ship, but I'm not holding my breath.
1. What are we selling and why isn't it working? Grind, grind, grind, Hard work, hard work, hard work. Kids aren't in love with that theory these days. You can get a lot of work done with new inventions
Kids can mow the lawn with a remote control lawn mower!2. What are other programs selling and why is it working? Fun, funk, good in all positions INCLUDING the top position. 5 titles in 6 years. World Champion Burroughs, 4 timer Stieber/world champ Snyder.
3. How do we defend negative recruiting? Your product has to have some exciting traits to discuss. It can't be "tradition." Right now, 3 NCAA finalist out of the first 4 weights is probably the best recruiting pitch you have at low weights. Would have been nice to have stoll be healthy to say Last 4 upper weights All-Americans.
4. Does our staff have the personal skills to garner the ELITE kids, if not what do we need to do? Is M* the guy to get that done? I think this is one reason Zadick gone. I asked myself this question the other day. We think of Cael and sex appeal - Taylor, etc. But, John Smith and Eric Guerro you wouldn't necessarily think have a ton of sex appeal with the younger crowd, but they are obviously recruiting very well. WHY?
5. Does the University of Iowa and Iowa City really have what it takes from an alumni base that tOSU and PSU have to garner ELITE recruits.This one in think is an emphatic yes. I live in Michigan and still buy season tickets, send money for different things, etc.
6. Have we adapted to recruiting the new breed of wrestling with powerful/explosive/athletic? Kemerer, Meija, JRent, Marinelli, Kaleb Young, Luke Troy, Happel is a start. It's one Top 5 guy. It would be nice to get a Warner, Singletary, etc. (Top 10 type) guys again next year. Obviously Lee would right the ship, but I'm not holding my breath.
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