To those in charge..
- Thread starter Kurt Warner
- Start date
Two internet fist-bumps-----or whatever we can do these days, elbow touches, hip bumps, whatever----for you!!!!
'Scept that ain't contagious and is mostly from stuffing too many twinkies in ones pie hole over time.
Please identify the names of the hospitals where the ER physicians refused to admit patients experiencing myocardial infarctions and, instead, sent them home. Also, name the hospitals where ERs are only asking patients if they are presenting with symptoms consistent with COVID-19 infection.
In the U.S., 3 out of 100,000 children diagnosed with pneumonia end up dying from it. That is a 0.003% fatality rate.
In the U.S., 16 (rounded up) out of 100,000 persons of all ages diagnosed with pneumonia end up dying from it. That equates to a 0.0158% fatality rate.
https://ourworldindata.org/pneumonia
Since the first reported case of COVID-19 in the U.S., there have been 40,931 deaths out of a reported 766,664 cases. That equates to a 5.338% fatality rate.
Thus, as of today, the fatality rate of COVID-19 exceeds the fatality rate of pneumonia by more than 337%.
Let me put it another way . . . at these rates:
With pneumonia, 16 out of 100,000 people die from the infection.
With COVID-19, 5,338 out of 100,000 people die from the infection.
There are proven therapies for dealing with pneumonia. No such proven therapies exist for COVID-19.
I think that your post is nothing but a bunch of conclusion driven bull$hit.
And COVID is a shit ton more contagious than about anything we have ever dealt with.
The case fatality rate is very likely magnitudes less than what is being published now. USC published a study today, and Stanford published one last week, where they did antibody studies of the population. Stanford's study showed that the infection rate is 50 to 80 times higher than what has been tested, USC's study showed 28 to 55 times as prevalent. This is very good news, as it means that the vast majority of people who get it are never ill enough to have to go to a doctor or seek medical care. It mirrors studies from Germany and Denmark whose findings were very similar. The only people being tested in the US (outside these antidbody studies) are people who are sick enough to have to seek medical attention. If the CFR is truly 5.338%, then yes we would all have to stay in our homes until a vaccine was created. If if the CFR is 0.1% or something along those lines, then we shoudl open up.
My spouse (no pics) works in medical field and she told me about that a study of Boston residents suggested that exposure was in the 30% to 40% range. Again, if true, it would be good news. Don't have a link or where she found that information.
And while I would have a tendency to agree with you that the number of exposures is being underreported due to the fact that the US is actively attempting to limit testing to only those who are assessed to need immediate medical attention, I also believe that the number of deaths are being underreported as well (Fauci seems to believe this as well). That written, I'll be surprised if the COVID death rate remains at 5+%.
Seems to me that the answer lies with markedly increased testing to get an answer as opposed to guess, speculation and conjecture.
I’m not going to tell you exactly which hospitals but I’ll give you a hint: my main practice is in Ranch Cucamonga and the Urgent Care that saw an unusually high numbers of MI’s is in Whittier CA. Those pts that were denied service never got to see the doctors at the hospitals! Get it?
And FYI, only about 20% of the patients I’ve sent to get tested so far actually got tested. That tells you how selective they are still.
If the true fatality rate is anywhere near 5% I’ll sign over my house to you. And your numbers about how low the pneumonia fatality rates are just proves my point even more that even with a low rate, we still lost 800,000 kids under five years of age that year yet we are supposed to shut down the world due to 170,000 Total deaths due to Covid-19 as of 4/20/20. It doesn’t make sense! Point being 2017 proved to be much more fatal yet this year’s Corona virus gets the attention of every tv and radio channels 24/7 plus websites, WHO, CDC, and all the ensuing irrational behavior and it’s consequences due to this hysteria that has been created. Hence the reason why I’m preaching for perspective. Like a previous poster said, the answer is likely to be in the middle, ie open businesses back up with extra precautions, fanless sporting events, etc.
Thanks for the perspective. That's interesting. You are correct, logic would tell us thee CFR isn't anywhere near 5%. The USC study that came out yesterday was similar to the Stanford study. Actual CFR between 0.1 and 0.3%, and that is just of the people who get the virus to begin with. Still more lethal than influenza, but not something we should be going into a self-imposed Depression over.
When you cite the death toll of 800,000 children from pneumonia but fail to mention that 94% of those deaths take place in developing countries with marginal - if any - health facilities, you lose any sense of credibility. You simply cannot compare the numbers. You are essentially saying that pneumonia kills far more children in Africa than COVID-19 kills people in the US so the US should not be so focused on COVID-19 infections. Apples/oranges.
You also fail to mention that there are well known treatments for pneumonia and the WHO has devoted significant efforts to bring those treatments to developing nations and has successfully reduced pneumonia related death rates by nearly 50%.
Your post is one of many which again highlights the need for significantly ramped up testing. It is beyond amazing to me that our country is not making this a priority and generating the answers to pressing questions.
If we truly want to “reopen the country,” start mass testing. Instead of speculating regarding model generated exposure rates, let’s get some hard data.
Why not just take HCQ + Zn prophylactically and be done?
Why were doctors in NJ keeping it for themselves? "The state had said last week that doctors were prescribing hydroxychloroquine for themselves and family members who weren't sick."
https://twitter.com/zev_dr
Its only many many times more contagious than the flu however. We don't have massive influenza A outbreaks in meat packing plants, but we do this.
This is an honest question to all, not being a jackass one way or the other, but what is an acceptable body count? Where is the cut off point that is "too many"? I don't know the answer but there must be some concensus by the people. And at the same time, be able to answer the question if it killed someone in your family or somewhat close friend would that have been acceptable or would your decision change?
True there are some like that. They want no one having any fun.
1. "high" dose and the zpac cause heart issues. by the way Zn is the antiviral, the HCQ just lets it get into the cell to stop RNA replication, but it does have to be soon enough and not on death's bed.
2. CIA hahaha
3. "higher doses"
4. National Institutes of Health, Fauci and Gates. Fauci is being depantsed for the world to see.
That IS the question isn't it. And I'm not saying what the answer should be. I don't know. I do know if you keep 22+ million people unemployed and confined to their homes for another year you will see the body count pile up from suicides and other things that go along with immediately impoverishing millions of people and literally forbidding them to earn a living. To say nothing of whether people will actually starve or thousands of other people die because they can't get health services. Right now in my state you can't get "elective" procedures such as knee replacement, hip replacement, cancer, etc. The supply chain for food can't continue to be strained as it is right now forever, nor can cancellations of things like cancer treatments, dental visits, etc. Life cannot go on if people are confined to their homes for 12-18 months.
As a society, we make decisions all the time about what an acceptable risk is. About 33,000 people, more or less, die in car accidents every year in the U.S. Every one of them is tragic and impactful. But we don't restrict travel on interstates or preclude people from driving if they qualify for a license.
These are all difficult issues. Life itself is a risk every day when you go out the front door.
But, in the case of certain emergencies, officials will close interstates and highways when they've determined that it is not safe to drive.
I know and they have healthy people scared shitless that if they get this they are as good as dead or at least will end up in the hospital for 3 or 4 weeks. We have to quarantine those that really need quarantined and the rest of us need to go. Not gather in 70k crowds kind of go, but go to work and school. but we need the testing amped up a lot. The media will spotlight the unusual cases of some healthy person who gets it and has a very bad case. They do that with the regular flu also.
For those at risk, they are basically quarantined now, so what really changes for them? They should not be out and about now. So if that stayed the same and let the rest of us go, what is the issue. Sure some of us will get sick and maybe even die. We don't sit and debate this stuff every flu season when the same stuff happens.
Another way I frame this is this way. We could lower the national speed limit to 20 mph for everyone all the time. That would reduce annual deaths by many thousands. Why don't they suggest we do that, not even the media does. We accept the risk versus reward of traveling at higher speeds knowing more are going to die (otherwise healthy women, men, children).
But why don't they have a national 20 mph speed limit and save thousands upon thousands of lives annually?
Dude it's been a month it's not gonna go on for a year....
When the hell have car wrecks caused a worldwide shortage of medical supplies???
Some of these comparisons are just stupid....
BTW we do have restrictions we call them speed limits and traffic laws as well as safety standards for vehicles.
How many alcoholic deaths per year are acceptable to you before they ban it?
From NHI
An estimated 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States..
Beer? That's just the tip of the iceberg. After our covid-19 alarmist Hawkfeever partakes in his morbid beer drinking I imagine he heads down to the local deep fat fried fat on a stick joint and sows down of which.......
Unhealthy eating is linked to 400,000 US deaths per year!!!!!!!!!!
Well duh think how many would starve eating healthy foods only. Why you think carbs are king of the food pyramid
The medical supplies are catching up. When it does completely, many healthy people are still going to be scared shitless because of the way this is all portrayed. Every story shows people in the hospital in ICU on a ventilator. That is a small % of people that end up like that and yes it is very contagious so we can't have everyone getting it at once, but the biggest risk is to those with health conditions and elderly. They have to stay quarantined for the duration no matter what. That is not the majority of the working age population or the school kids. We need to get going as soon as medical supplies and testing are in.
I bet the lockdowns are saving people from traffic accident deaths, so maybe we just go into permanent lockdown and the government sends us food and bubble wrap in case we fall in our homes.
When supplies and tests are where they should be, I'm sure many will be going back to work.
The reporting in this link is entirely consistent with a Tuesday night discussion that I had with a good friend who serves on the Board of a specific University of Iowa department: https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-colleges-universities-7cfc5228-00fb-44e1-a850-e332050641a7.html
He estimated that, at best, there is a 50/50 shot of on campus classes this Fall. Massive concern regarding enrollment and attendance.
He estimated that, at best, there is a 50/50 shot of on campus classes this Fall. Massive concern regarding enrollment and attendance.
It is clear who the most at risk are. At some point the rest of us have to march on and keep people with these types of issues quarantined until safe.
4/22 article:
A new study by a medical journal revealed that most of the people in New York City who were hospitalized due to coronavirus had one or more underlying health issues.
Health records from 5,700 patients hospitalized within the Northwell Health system -- which housed the most patients in the country throughout the pandemic -- showed that 94 percent of patients had more than one disease other than COVID-19, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).
Data taken from March to early April showed that the median age of patients was 63 years old and 53 percent of all coronavirus patients suffered from hypertension, the most prevalent of the ailments among patients.
In addition, 42 percent of coronavirus patients who had body mass index (BMI) data on file suffered from obesity while 32 percent of all patients suffered from diabetes.
The study also revealed that the overwhelming majority of patients who were on ventilators eventually died, and those who did more often had diabetes.
Data gathered from 2,634 patients who either died or were discharged from the hospital showed that 12 percent of them were placed on ventilators and of those who were, 88 percent of them died.
“Having serious comorbidities increases your risk,” said Karina Davidson, one of the study’s authors and senior vice president for the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research, which is part of the Northwell Health system, according to reports by Time.
4/22 article:
A new study by a medical journal revealed that most of the people in New York City who were hospitalized due to coronavirus had one or more underlying health issues.
Health records from 5,700 patients hospitalized within the Northwell Health system -- which housed the most patients in the country throughout the pandemic -- showed that 94 percent of patients had more than one disease other than COVID-19, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).
Data taken from March to early April showed that the median age of patients was 63 years old and 53 percent of all coronavirus patients suffered from hypertension, the most prevalent of the ailments among patients.
In addition, 42 percent of coronavirus patients who had body mass index (BMI) data on file suffered from obesity while 32 percent of all patients suffered from diabetes.
The study also revealed that the overwhelming majority of patients who were on ventilators eventually died, and those who did more often had diabetes.
Data gathered from 2,634 patients who either died or were discharged from the hospital showed that 12 percent of them were placed on ventilators and of those who were, 88 percent of them died.
“Having serious comorbidities increases your risk,” said Karina Davidson, one of the study’s authors and senior vice president for the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research, which is part of the Northwell Health system, according to reports by Time.
So that sounds pretty easy. Just quarantine all those with high blood pressure, BMIs > 30, and/or some form of diabetes. Can’t be too many that fall into those groups, right?
I have on pretty good authority that the official decision on whether U of Iowa will have on-campus classes or will remain with on-line classes this Fall will be announced in "early June."
