2016 deja vu? The bruiser and the scat back.
Will they be used like Daniels/Wadley in 2016? Inquiring minds want to know.
Will they be used like Daniels/Wadley in 2016? Inquiring minds want to know.
Toren Young and IKM ??
- Thread starter JoelBittner
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Toren Young is going to be extremely good. Not quite as good as Greene, but better than LeShun Daniels. Young has great burst for his frame and goes looking for contact. According to teammates, he can also catch the ball. It's going to be f** to see him carry a full load. He has a nasty streak to him that we haven't seen since SG.
IKM - I got question marks. Very agile and runs good routes. Needs to get bigger and command his presence with the ball. He sometimes looks like a fumble waiting to happen.
I think Geil is the real deal. Fingers crossed for Bryan - haven't heard about him much.
IKM - I got question marks. Very agile and runs good routes. Needs to get bigger and command his presence with the ball. He sometimes looks like a fumble waiting to happen.
I think Geil is the real deal. Fingers crossed for Bryan - haven't heard about him much.
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I love read some of these posts from fans we've already decided how good and where to slot a Hawkeye in the history books. You haven't got a clue
Really excited about IKM. Small and quick but also has some pop to him.
Lol. You should hang around more because what he stated was extremely harmless. I always love the sensitive posters who can’t take another persons opinion.
I think Toren will be bettter than LaShun. IKM won’t be more shifty than Wadley, but he seems to hit the hole hard and gets up to speed well. I’m hoping the combination leads to better rushing than last year. If that happens, the Hawks offense could be good.
Looks to be a very solid combination and fortunately we have them for 3 more years. With all this time I'm excited to see how they develop but I do think Young will be better than Leshun Daniels. IKM will be productive and possibly a breakout home run hitter type of guy. Young has some good acceleration for his size too.
A lot will depend on the run blocking by the OL. Always does.
Shonn Greene was the exception. Several of his longest runs were after getting hit in the backfield by an unblocked DL or a run blitzer, keeping his feet and proceeding to then weave his way downfield.
If Young and/or IKM have a breakout year in 2018, you can bet somebody on this board will start talking about one of them leaving early for the 2020 draft.
IMHO, I think both can be very productive, but neither possess a high enough ceiling to put a tingle in the pulse of NFL scouts/evaluators.
Look at how the NFL is now run. S. Barkley was perhaps the best RB to hit the draft in a decade or more, yet, was drafted only #2, amongst a bunch of QB's that perennial bottom-feeder teams hope can develop into franchise QB's.
If I was Cleveland, I would have taken Barkley @ #1 and then taken the highest rated QB still on their board at #4. But, that's not how they roll.
At this point all harmless conjecture. We've seen next to nothing of either of them in situations that matter, so we're all guessing at this point. Going only off garbage time and limited carries, Young runs hard and isn't afraid of contact. That endears him with fans. I worry that he lacks the top-end speed to be a really good back, but that's for the coaches to decide. Kelly-Martin certainly has the burst you are looking for. Can he secure the ball? For the Iowa offense to be good, it needs big plays from the RB position. If the play is blocked well, Hawks need the back to make a guy miss and go for 15+ yards and not just 8 or 9. Just my 2 cents.
The fact that both Toren and Ivory saw reps during games while it "still mattered" was valuable for the young guys. Ivory saw a ton of special teams reps too.
I still expect that we'll still see the Hawks tap 3 guys to see reps this year (at least) ... however, I'm quite happy with the listed top-two currently. I agree that Ivory needs to improve as it relates to ball-security though.
I still expect that we'll still see the Hawks tap 3 guys to see reps this year (at least) ... however, I'm quite happy with the listed top-two currently. I agree that Ivory needs to improve as it relates to ball-security though.
I just love college football. Watching these kids work their tails off for their chance. I don't know who's going to be good, but I love watching the development of the players and each team.
Only 124 days until kick off!!!!
Only 124 days until kick off!!!!
We really don't have a clue about Toren and IKM. Can they handle 35 carries a game between them? Will they wear down in November? Are they injury prone? Do they fumble? Can they catch the ball? Lots to learn.
Wow man - he just stated his view on the backs. Maybe you should come down of your pedestal and chill?
Really excited about IKM. Small and quick but also has some pop to him.
I like Toren Young, however, IKM is the guy that really
Flashed, last year..........a lot of upside.
GO HAWKS
Fascinating little bit of Ferentz-era Hawkeye history ...
Shonn Greene:
'05 - freshman year - 37 carries, 173 yards, 1 TD
'06 - sophomore year - 32 carries, 205 yards, 1 TD
'07 - redshirt year - not on team, at Kirkwood (improving grades)
'08 - junior year 307 carries, 1850 yards, 20 TDs
WHUT!!? (who saw that one coming, eh?)
Mark Weisman:
'11 - (redshirt freshman year) redshirting as a transfer at fullback - no carries, yards, or TDs
'12 - (sophomore year) 159 carries, 815 yards, 8 TDs
Was a monster until dinged in MSU game. Then the bottom fell out when 2 of our top guys on the OL went down to injury versus PSU. All the same, surprisingly productive year for Weisman.
Albert Young:
'04 - (redshirt freshman year) 27 carries, 92 yards, 2 TDs (ultimately went down to injury)
'05 - (sophomore year) 249 carries, 1334 yards, 8 TDs
Highly praised back by Coach Jackson. Poor guy was snake bitten early in his career by injuries ... and they seemed to slow him to some extent. Wonderfully versatile RB for us though.
Fred Russell:
'01 - (redshirt freshman year) 21 carries, 141 yards, 1 TD
'02 - (sophomore year) 220 carries, 1264 yards, 9 TDs
Hawks had just lost Betts to graduation and pre-season prognosticators were not being friendly to the Hawks. Nobody was expecting to see what we ultimately saw from Iowa's rushing game.
LeShun Daniels:
'13 - (freshman year) 36 carries, 142 yards, 0 TDs
'14 - (sophomore year) 15 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD (dinged through much of early years at Iowa)
'15 - (junior year) 145 carries, 646 yards, 8 TDs
'16 - (senior year) 213 carries, 1058 yards, 10 TDs
The point of this exercise was largely to show how Iowa's "transition" at RB entering 2018 seems pretty typical for almost all intents and purposes. We lost a really good starter the prior season ... we need new guys to emerge. The current guys entering the picture are somewhat of an unknown ... but, on the other hand, they also have some valuable experience. Furthermore, they were pretty productive in what little experience they did get ...
'17 RB numbers (of the new guys) ....
Ivory Kelly-Martin - (freshman year) 20 carries, 184 yards, 3 TDs
Toren Young - (redshirt freshman year) 45 carries, 193 yards, 2 TDs
Seems promising to me!
Shonn Greene:
'05 - freshman year - 37 carries, 173 yards, 1 TD
'06 - sophomore year - 32 carries, 205 yards, 1 TD
'07 - redshirt year - not on team, at Kirkwood (improving grades)
'08 - junior year 307 carries, 1850 yards, 20 TDs
WHUT!!? (who saw that one coming, eh?)
Mark Weisman:
'11 - (redshirt freshman year) redshirting as a transfer at fullback - no carries, yards, or TDs
'12 - (sophomore year) 159 carries, 815 yards, 8 TDs
Was a monster until dinged in MSU game. Then the bottom fell out when 2 of our top guys on the OL went down to injury versus PSU. All the same, surprisingly productive year for Weisman.
Albert Young:
'04 - (redshirt freshman year) 27 carries, 92 yards, 2 TDs (ultimately went down to injury)
'05 - (sophomore year) 249 carries, 1334 yards, 8 TDs
Highly praised back by Coach Jackson. Poor guy was snake bitten early in his career by injuries ... and they seemed to slow him to some extent. Wonderfully versatile RB for us though.
Fred Russell:
'01 - (redshirt freshman year) 21 carries, 141 yards, 1 TD
'02 - (sophomore year) 220 carries, 1264 yards, 9 TDs
Hawks had just lost Betts to graduation and pre-season prognosticators were not being friendly to the Hawks. Nobody was expecting to see what we ultimately saw from Iowa's rushing game.
LeShun Daniels:
'13 - (freshman year) 36 carries, 142 yards, 0 TDs
'14 - (sophomore year) 15 carries, 49 yards, 1 TD (dinged through much of early years at Iowa)
'15 - (junior year) 145 carries, 646 yards, 8 TDs
'16 - (senior year) 213 carries, 1058 yards, 10 TDs
The point of this exercise was largely to show how Iowa's "transition" at RB entering 2018 seems pretty typical for almost all intents and purposes. We lost a really good starter the prior season ... we need new guys to emerge. The current guys entering the picture are somewhat of an unknown ... but, on the other hand, they also have some valuable experience. Furthermore, they were pretty productive in what little experience they did get ...
'17 RB numbers (of the new guys) ....
Ivory Kelly-Martin - (freshman year) 20 carries, 184 yards, 3 TDs
Toren Young - (redshirt freshman year) 45 carries, 193 yards, 2 TDs
Seems promising to me!
As I look at the numbers I'm growing more confidant that 2018 could produce a pair of 1,000 yd rushers. But it's rank speculation as no one knows how Brian will use them. But with stellar TE's - capable RBs - an athletic QB and WRs to compliment a returning Easley, I think Iowa's offense will again be a juggernaut which strikes fear into the heart of our opponents.
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Granted IKM probably won’t see the heap of creases that he had in NT game but I was very very impressed by how quickly he could hit the hole. I think both guys offer a more complementary style of running as opposed to Wadleys boom or bust approach. The big play ability is the question mark, IMO.
I do think TY and IKM can give Brian a thunder and lightning approach option. I think they compare favorably to Daniels/Wadley. Some are questioning their ability to catch the ball. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and cross my fingers as we wait for September.
Seems like the most likely outcome. I just want Brian to use IKM's talent strategically. If he does, that should guarantee us at least 1 extra win vs. 2017
In 2015, in Beathard's first year as a full-time starter, the Iowa O was able to kill the clock against "lesser" opponents. Kevin Wilson lamented after the game that that was one of his bigger concerns ... because he knew that when Iowa had the ball, that the Hawks would effectively be able to play "keep away" from his O. Iowa's O that year was not dominating by any stretch ... but the balanced attack still helped propel us to an undefeated season.
I agree with the comparison ... the contrast between Young and IKM is something that the Hawks should be able to exploit against many opponents. Phil Parker is great at instilling toughness in his DBs ... and consequently, Iowa's CBs are often some of the better in the nation when it comes to run-support. However, the fact remains that many CBs are pansies ... and would rather stay in coverage all the time or unload on unsuspecting WRs. Those same DBs are the ones that got pounded into oblivion back in 2008 when the Hawks had Shonn Greene. I don't relish when players for the opposition get injured ... however, it is still true that Shonn Greene sent many a DB to the side-line will all sort of aches and pains in '08.
I think that we all can anticipate that Toren Young can bring that same sort of "hammer" to opposing Ds ... particularly when he gets to 2nd and 3rd levels. Thus, when you get later in the game and the DBs are shying from contact ... that's when IKM ought to be lethal. A defender might be able to get away with giving Toren a little space ... because he's just as apt to try to run you over. However, if you give Ivory space ... then he might not give you a chance to even lay a hand on him.
Back in 2015, Iowa's group of RBs were quite varied ... we had Daniels, Canzeri, Wadley, and Mitchell ... and each guy saw quality snaps and touches. Daniels and Mitchell could punish defenders ... while Canzeri and Wadley were obviously a bit more elusive. However, the key that set up the O was the fact that we had capable WRs, capable TEs, and capable RBs. On top of that, Beathard's moxy and toughness inspired trust within the huddle ... and the guys really fought hard for each other.
In 2018, I think that we have most of the bases covered ... we have a high quality QB, we have great TEs, and we have RBs who are capable of doing some damage. If our WRs can prove capable ... we should be able to field an O that can legitimately take pressure off of our D. That would be a great thing indeed!
I'm pumped to see how the duo developed this seas. I think they will exceed expectations over the next three years.
Wow, forgot about this run, almost like the gif is sped up a bit, go IKM!Really excited about IKM. Small and quick but also has some pop to him.
In 2016 Daniels got the lion's share of carries. But they both eclipsed 1,000 yards specifically cuz just when the D was getting used to Daniels style AW would enter the game and break their ankles.
Greenlight mentioned a bigger dosage of Young. Probably so, but even with a smaller dosage of IKM he can explode to 1,000 yards. As stated, reminiscent of 2016.
Really excited about IKM. Small and quick but also has some pop to him.
Save this video. It's one of 3 times the stretch audible to the short side of the field worked...primarily because of how fast IKM was through that slim opening.
Brian would be smart to put them both in the backfield at the same time. If I'm the defense and I suspect the run, I still don't know whose gonna get the ball.
Worked 3 times; the above example, also against Penn St once at home and...I'm sure there's a third.
Pre-snap the QB will choose the run to the direction where there are the fewest hats. The job of the D is to disguise things and shift shortly after - to nullify the QB's initial read based on hat-count.
The D wouldn't be confused about what direction the ball would be run based on having 2 RBs on the field at the same time - that's typically not how their keys work. Besides, that is the purpose of things like the jet sweep, various other incarnations of the end-around, and counter plays ... there are other ways to achieve misdirection besides putting 2 RBs on the field at the same time.
Now, if you're willing to have Toren also be a lead blocker ... OR also have him take the dive play, then MAYBE having 2 RBs on the field might give the O some other options. The bigger "gain" with such personnel usage is to try to get more "playmakers" on the field at the same time - and usually that would be achieved by motioning IKM out wide (like what Wadley did in '17). However, the whole purpose of "overloading" personnel groups is to allow the O to be more "multiple." If you have both IKM and Toren in the backfield - that comes with its tradeoffs if one of the guys doesn't supply the option to be a lead blocker (again, about owning the hat-on-hat advantage).
Another issue with that play in somewhat recent history has been that our edge blocking hasn't entirely been up to snuff over the past few years. The guys blocking on the edge have to be able to create that crease. In '17 our OTs were pretty brand-new ... and our TEs weren't brimming with experience either. Even in '16, there was juggling at OT (because of Croston being dinged) - and Kittle was dinged for much of the season too. There's a reason why the outside zone run has been somewhat MIA over the past 2 years ... and it wasn't just due to odd defensive fronts either.
Nice video. If you look back to 2015, a lot of our big runs came off of inside zone runs (our edge running game was comparatively rougher that year). However, in 2016, it almost appeared as though the outside zone was just as effective (if not more-so).
Speculating "out loud" ... I'd hypothesize that some of that presumably related to the strength of our personnel for the given year. In '15, Blythe and Walsh were stalwarts ... experienced, talented guys who helped to lead our OL. On the edge, the trio of Croston, Boettger, and Myers were relative newbs.
Then, in '16, we were relatively less experienced on the interior .... much like how we're looking in '18 ... however, we returned more experienced talent on the edges. I wonder if that is what we'll see in '18 ... we'll likely continue to dabble more into using the power game when running ... but maybe we see a return in our success running on the edges via our outside zone runs.
Agree 100% IKM is a combo back. Kid ran really well in between the tackles, outside, and through the air. I love our RB future.
Semantics aside, this thread agrees that he is a weapon to be used. Looking forward to seeing more of him.
Working from your definition, he should see more touches than a scatback would. Which I'm totally in favor of.
Part of the fun each year is watching established guys improve their draft stock . . . and watching new guys make a name for themselves.
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