Transfer Portal (ESPN)

[HoustonREDHawk]

Iowa hasn't had anyone even close to a great defensive player in a few years. Weesy is good, if the opponent isn't extremely quick or much bigger. Kriener is actually a decent defender and isn't afraid to get physical, but has limited quickness and jumping ability. Nunge might be a lot better than we saw two years ago, when he mostly had to play 3 and was probably not nearly as strong. I also hope that JoeT can be our best on-ball defender, at least since Sapp and Gesell. Otherwise, our returning players are not good defenders, and only Moss has the physical skills to be one IMO. Edit--I forgot CMc, who is a solid, physical defender, whose size compensates for his lack of quickness.

I would love to add a rim protector/rebounder and a tough, quick perimeter defender, preferably with some length. In the perfect world, they could also play offense. I would be shopping for either of those players in the transfer list.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

The hate is strong....but hate is not known for being rational.

It's pretty simple if you take the blinders off. Teams much better than Iowa are tapping into the graduate transfer market. Why is that? It's not like Kentucky, Kansas, NC State and others can't go get 4-5 star kids (unlike Iowa). Rational thought is looking at what is working for everyone else and emulating it. Fran chooses to live in denial.

So in your world it makes sense to keep burning scholarships on Ellingson, Dailey, Williams, Fleming, Wagner, etc., and investing multiple years in them before realizing they aren't p5 players vs. looking at the graduate transfer market and bringing in 1-2 guys (when it makes sense) who can play? I am sure Bohannon would have preferred a guard who get him off the ball last year so he could get shots vs. being smothered on D.

 

[JEDN]

I am a fan of Fran but am also puzzled by our apparent lack of interest in either the grad transfer track or the transfer portal!

 

[TCOOL]

It's pretty simple if you take the blinders off. Teams much better than Iowa are tapping into the graduate transfer market. Why is that? It's not like Kentucky, Kansas, NC State and others can't go get 4-5 star kids (unlike Iowa). Rational thought is looking at what is working for everyone else and emulating it. Fran chooses to live in denial.

So in your world it makes sense to keep burning scholarships on Ellingson, Dailey, Williams, Fleming, Wagner, etc., and investing multiple years in them before realizing they aren't p5 players vs. looking at the graduate transfer market and bringing in 1-2 guys (when it makes sense) who can play? I am sure Bohannon would have preferred a guard who get him off the ball last year so he could get shots vs. being smothered on D.

Well said....all of it.

 

[BBHawk]

It's pretty simple if you take the blinders off. Teams much better than Iowa are tapping into the graduate transfer market. Why is that? It's not like Kentucky, Kansas, NC State and others can't go get 4-5 star kids (unlike Iowa). Rational thought is looking at what is working for everyone else and emulating it. Fran chooses to live in denial.

So in your world it makes sense to keep burning scholarships on Ellingson, Dailey, Williams, Fleming, Wagner, etc., and investing multiple years in them before realizing they aren't p5 players vs. looking at the graduate transfer market and bringing in 1-2 guys (when it makes sense) who can play? I am sure Bohannon would have preferred a guard who get him off the ball last year so he could get shots vs. being smothered on D.

NC State?

And most of us are in the middle somewhere, seeing some recruiting mistakes but also some successes. And we also understand that, realistically, Iowa cannot recruit on the level of a Kentucky, a Kansas, or a Duke. The year Iowa does that will be the first year ever at Iowa.

 

[perryhawk]

It's pretty simple if you take the blinders off. Teams much better than Iowa are tapping into the graduate transfer market. Why is that? It's not like Kentucky, Kansas, NC State and others can't go get 4-5 star kids (unlike Iowa). Rational thought is looking at what is working for everyone else and emulating it. Fran chooses to live in denial.

So in your world it makes sense to keep burning scholarships on Ellingson, Dailey, Williams, Fleming, Wagner, etc., and investing multiple years in them before realizing they aren't p5 players vs. looking at the graduate transfer market and bringing in 1-2 guys (when it makes sense) who can play? I am sure Bohannon would have preferred a guard who get him off the ball last year so he could get shots vs. being smothered on D.

You make a good-rational argument until you make comments like "Fran chooses to live in denial".....which is so obviously a reflection of your feelings towards Fran and so far from reality.

Then you infer that I support or believe in offering scholarships to players that don't pan out......come on. With the other arguments you make you can obviously do better than that. Not only did I never say that....but please tell me the number of programs that get great production and play from EVERY player they recruit.

Base your thoughts in reality, remove the emotion, and you obviously have the intellect to make a good case when you do that. That would make for good discussion.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

The hate is strong....but hate is not known for being rational.

Having a different (even controversial) opinion is not hate.

 

[perryhawk]

Having a different (even controversial) opinion is not hate.

You missed the point....a different-even controversial opinion is fine...love the discussion. Completely disregarding reality to make ridiculous claims that aren't true...and doing so consistently, reflects hate.

Differences of opinion are what makes these boards interesting.......pouting and whining not so much.

 

[BBHawk]

I am a fan of Fran but am also puzzled by our apparent lack of interest in either the grad transfer track or the transfer portal!

I don't understand why some posters persist in believing this. Iowa does actively look at transfers, but they don't base their recruiting strategy on it like some staffs appear to.

Look at the recent reports about Iowa's interest in some of the kids in the transfer portal. For some they are trying to set up visits. If Iowa had a lack of interest in transfers, why would they bring them in?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

You missed the point....a different-even controversial opinion is fine...love the discussion. Completely disregarding reality to make ridiculous claims that aren't true...and doing so consistently, reflects hate.

Differences of opinion are what makes these boards interesting.......pouting and whining not so much.

Fair enough, I understand your point. Still...I prefer bias or closed-minded to hate. I think hate infers another level...including a desire to harm...and like many other words, its meaning has been cheapened.

 

[JEDN]

I have heard nothing of potential transfer visits being arranged!

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I'm mostly a Fran supporter, but it is clear that Iowa has not tapped into the transfer market as much as almost every other P5 team. Whether this is because Fran doesn't want to or because the coaches haven't been able to successfully attract transfers, it still has made it harder for Iowa to fill obvious holes on the roster. I know that Fran has connections with other coaches, so I believe the problem has been more philosophical, especially for grad transfers. Cook and Dailey leaving should give the coaches a great opportunity to add at least one valuable piece to a good team.

 

[madmustang4]

Are coaches still allowed to restrict where players can transfer to?

 

[CP84]

I'm mostly a Fran supporter, but it is clear that Iowa has not tapped into the transfer market as much as almost every other P5 team. Whether this is because Fran doesn't want to or because the coaches haven't been able to successfully attract transfers, it still has made it harder for Iowa to fill obvious holes on the roster. I know that Fran has connections with other coaches, so I believe the problem has been more philosophical, especially for grad transfers. Cook and Dailey leaving should give the coaches a great opportunity to add at least one valuable piece to a good team.

We have only 3 players leaving, 2 recruits coming in plus the 2 redshirts and Pemsl.

We'll have 11 scholarship players next year. We do not need a one and done grad transfer.

Nunge, Pemsl and Fredrick are essentially like adding 3 transfers to last year's roster.

 

[unoHawkeye]

So in your world it makes sense to keep burning scholarships on Ellingson, Dailey, Williams, Fleming, Wagner, etc., and investing multiple years in them before realizing they aren't p5 players vs. looking at the graduate transfer market and bringing in 1-2 guys (when it makes sense) who can play? I am sure Bohannon would have preferred a guard who get him off the ball last year so he could get shots vs. being smothered on D.

I’m with you in that Iowa should start making the occasional grad transfer a thing if it is a good fit. That said, I’m not really following this paragraph. The guys you listed (aside from Wagner, who I think could have played an important role on this year’s team) were obviously recruiting misses. But Fran obviously didn’t know that at the time he recruited them. The only player that was obviously not a D1 caliber player after only their first year was Fleming (and guys like Hutton, Ingram), and they transferred out. Likewise, after it was apparent these other players weren’t going to be major contributors for Iowa, they transferred out, even if it took an extra couple years. I don’t want to cheer for a team, and players won’t want to play for a team, known for cutting guys if they aren’t absolute ballers as freshmen.

My only beef has been Fran replacing these guys with new recruits. If you are going to run a developmental style program, then you need to replace transferring juniors or seniors with other juniors/seniors/grad transfers. For example, Dailey leaving leaves Iowa with a hole at the wing position. It’s starting to look like Fran will bank that scholly to 2020, which is great except that next year is supposed to be THE year with Bohannon, Moss, Kriener, and (would have been) Cook graduating, which a 2020 recruit doesn’t help with. Now we are counting on RS Freshman CJ Fredrick, who will likely be a solid contributor at some point but not next year, to provide more valuable minutes at the 2 than Dailey would have (and I’m not sure that’s likely)

TC leaving is offset by Pemsl/Nunge returning

 

[TCOOL]

I have heard nothing of potential transfer visits being arranged!

Is this surprising to you?

 

[CP84]

Now we are counting on RS Freshman CJ Fredrick, who will likely be a solid contributor at some point but not next year, to provide more valuable minutes at the 2 than Dailey would have (and I’m not sure that’s likely)

I don't think this is true. First of all your comment about when Fredrick will be a solid contributor is pure speculation. It could be next year or it could be never. To assert definitively that it won't next year is based on nothing.

Secondly, why would he possibly be counted on to contribute more minutes than Dailey did? Remind me what other backcourt players we lost apart from Dailey to make you think such a thing? Dailey was essentially a non-factor when he did play so it's a low bar to meet the effectiveness of his lost production/minutes.

Finally, not only do we only lose Dailey, but we gain two additional backcourt players: Toussaint who will play PG and Patrick who will likely play SF barring a redshirt from either.

In no way would we be counting on large minutes, or certainly not larger minutes than Dailey from Fredrick if he isn't good:

PG: Bohannon/Toussaint/Connor
SG: Moss/Bohannon/Wieskamp/Connor/Fredrick
SF: Wieskamp/Patrick

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I guess to me there hasn’t been an obvious need for a grad transfer at a position for which there was an obvious available player. For example with Jok leaving and Joe committed it would have been great to get a grad transfer SF for 17-18 but I don’t recall there being any good options out there that considered Iowa. I know we looked.

Fran has done a great job at keeping good players around and encouraging non-contributors to move on. His players love him, and recruiting over them would seem to undermine one of his core philosophies as a coach.

There are short term fixes to everything in life but sometimes you are mortgaging the future by chasing them.

 

[Suterman]

The only transfers that make ANY sense for Iowa this year would be those that have to sit out a year. They would be part of the 2020 class and would even out the classes even more.

 

[CP84]

The only transfers that make ANY sense for Iowa this year would be those that have to sit out a year. They would be part of the 2020 class and would even out the classes even more.

Exactly. I could understand DJ Harvey but I won't miss him if we land a class that includes a couple 4 stars.

You give me Caleb Love, Dawson Garcia and Xavier Foster and I'll say DJ who?

 

[unoHawkeye]

I don't think this is true. First of all your comment about when Fredrick will be a solid contributor is pure speculation. It could be next year or it could be never. To assert definitively that it won't next year is based on nothing.

Secondly, why would he possibly be counted on to contribute more minutes than Dailey did? Remind me what other backcourt players we lost apart from Dailey to make you think such a thing? Dailey was essentially a non-factor when he did play so it's a low bar to meet the effectiveness of his lost production/minutes.

Finally, not only do we only lose Dailey, but we gain two additional backcourt players: Toussaint who will play PG and Patrick who will likely play SF barring a redshirt from either.

In no way would we be counting on large minutes, or certainly not larger minutes than Dailey from Fredrick if he isn't good:

PG: Bohannon/Toussaint/Connor
SG: Moss/Bohannon/Wieskamp/Connor/Fredrick
SF: Wieskamp/Patrick

Of course it’s speculation. I don’t know what is going to happen next year any more than you or anybody else. Which is why I said “I’m not sure that is likely.” Nothing definitive about that statement.

And where did I say we would need more minutes from CJ than we got from Dailey? I said we’d need him to provide as or more VALUABLE minutes than MD did if the Hawks are gonna improve as much as possible.

However your last point is well received. Getting Pat won’t mean much for the 2 position, but Joe T could add enough at the 1 to allow Bohannon to slide to the 2, where he’d surely be more productive than Dailey would’ve been... of course, this is all just speculation

 

[unoHawkeye]

Exactly. I could understand DJ Harvey but I won't miss him if we land a class that includes a couple 4 stars.

You give me Caleb Love, Dawson Garcia and Xavier Foster and I'll say DJ who?

Nobody is disagreeing with this statement. You only take a grad transfer if it is a good mutual fit

 

[TCOOL]

Exactly. I could understand DJ Harvey but I won't miss him if we land a class that includes a couple 4 stars.

You give me Caleb Love, Dawson Garcia and Xavier Foster and I'll say DJ who?

Chances of that happening? You take Harvey and still pursue those kids.

If you get Harvey and all 3 of those somehow then someone not contributing will probably see the writing on the wall and move on like Wagner, Ellingson and Dailey did.

You don't stop pursuing a transfer because you're in on some good recruits that may not decide for several months.

 

[TCOOL]

I guess to me there hasn’t been an obvious need for a grad transfer at a position for which there was an obvious available player. For example with Jok leaving and Joe committed it would have been great to get a grad transfer SF for 17-18 but I don’t recall there being any good options out there that considered Iowa. I know we looked.

Fran has done a great job at keeping good players around and encouraging non-contributors to move on. His players love him, and recruiting over them would seem to undermine one of his core philosophies as a coach.

There are short term fixes to everything in life but sometimes you are mortgaging the future by chasing them.

What transfers did Iowa look at that offseason?

 

[CP84]

Of course it’s speculation. I don’t know what is going to happen next year any more than you or anybody else. Which is why I said “I’m not sure that is likely.” Nothing definitive about that statement.

And where did I say we would need more minutes from CJ than we got from Dailey? I said we’d need him to provide as or more VALUABLE minutes than MD did if the Hawks are gonna improve as much as possible.

However your last point is well received. Getting Pat won’t mean much for the 2 position, but Joe T could add enough at the 1 to allow Bohannon to slide to the 2, where he’d surely be more productive than Dailey would’ve been... of course, this is all just speculation

Pat would add value to the 2 because at times he would allow Joe to slide into the 2 while he was at the 3.

I think the bottom line is with Toussaint and Pat in at the 1 and 3, it allows more flexibility at the 2 between Moss, Bohannon, Joe W, Connor and Fredrick.

If Fredrick isn't up to task I don't think we'll need him to play comparable minutes to Dailey this year.

On the other hand, Fredrick was a better recruit with better offers than Maishe. It's possible that his presence is a contributing factor to Maishe's departure.

 

[Ballhawk1221]

This snippet from a 2018 DMR article seems worth reposting:

Getting a grad transfer to Iowa isn't as easy as you'd think.

There are very stringent people and policies at Iowa, as there probably should be everywhere, about whether to accept graduate transfers that want to play sports.

As McCaffery put it: “We’re not a place that’s set up to sort of just 'ball' for a couple months, then just take off and not really have any intention of finishing. So, we have to look at serious students that want to come.

“And then you have to be respectful of the guys you have. Because if you bring a grad transfer in, he’s got to play. Otherwise, you shouldn’t bring him in.”​

 

[unoHawkeye]

I guess to me there hasn’t been an obvious need for a grad transfer at a position for which there was an obvious available player. For example with Jok leaving and Joe committed it would have been great to get a grad transfer SF for 17-18 but I don’t recall there being any good options out there that considered Iowa. I know we looked.

Fran has done a great job at keeping good players around and encouraging non-contributors to move on. His players love him, and recruiting over them would seem to undermine one of his core philosophies as a coach.

There are short term fixes to everything in life but sometimes you are mortgaging the future by chasing them.

Either of the years when Iowa had among the youngest teams in college basketball would have been a great time

 

[CP84]

Chances of that happening? You take Harvey and still pursue those kids.

If you get Harvey and all 3 of those somehow then someone not contributing will probably see the writing on the wall and move on like Wagner, Ellingson and Dailey did.

You don't stop pursuing a transfer because you're in on some good recruits that may not decide for several months.

I don't disagree and it appears we are pursuing Harvey. My point is not to flog Fran until we see the full outcome of this class.

We shouldn't gripe about not landing grad transfer if we end up with a great class.

 

[unoHawkeye]

This snippet from a 2018 DMR article seems worth reposting:

Getting a grad transfer to Iowa isn't as easy as you'd think.

There are very stringent people and policies at Iowa, as there probably should be everywhere, about whether to accept graduate transfers that want to play sports.

As McCaffery put it: “We’re not a place that’s set up to sort of just 'ball' for a couple months, then just take off and not really have any intention of finishing. So, we have to look at serious students that want to come.

“And then you have to be respectful of the guys you have. Because if you bring a grad transfer in, he’s got to play. Otherwise, you shouldn’t bring him in.”​

Grad transfers are serious enough students to have already graduated so I guess I don’t really agree with this perspective... but I guess that’s why I’m not coach

 

[CP84]

Grad transfers are serious enough students to have already graduated so I guess I don’t really agree with this perspective... but I guess that’s why I’m not coach

On the other hand his other point is exactly what I've said earlier in this thread. Transfers are looking for expanded playing time. We would need to find a transfer good enough to be in the top 6 rotation. With our lineup returning that's not an easy task.

 

[Ballhawk1221]

Grad transfers are serious enough students to have already graduated so I guess I don’t really agree with this perspective... but I guess that’s why I’m not coach

A player can graduate, get his degree, and not have any interest in furthering his academics.

 

[unoHawkeye]

On the other hand his other point is exactly what I've said earlier in this thread. Transfers are looking for expanded playing time. We would need to find a transfer good enough to be in the top 6 rotation. With our lineup returning that's not an easy task.

Agreed and my original response to this thread was to a post talking generally about grad transfers citing players like Fleming, Ellingson, Williams, Wagner, and Dailey. So my response was meant to address the topic and a general criticism I have.

In hindsight, maybe citing the upcoming year wasn’t the greatest example, though, as you acknowledged, there are certain players who could still “fit” next year

 

[unoHawkeye]

A player can graduate, get his degree, and not have any interest in furthering his academics.

I get the point just don’t agree with it

 

[TCOOL]

I don't disagree and it appears we are pursuing Harvey. My point is not to flog Fran until we see the full outcome of this class.

We shouldn't gripe about not landing grad transfer if we end up with a great class.

You're putting the cart way in front of the horse. You need to make a decision on transfers months in advance of the early signing period. It's possible, like this year, that Iowa won't even have any verbals for their next recruiting class during transfer season.

 

[Vbeachawk]

Iowa could use a backup to Weiskamp next year at a minimum. PMac will not be a P5 quality player next year when the Hawks play real teams that play physically. Iowa's current players have trouble hanging with physical athletic teams and they won't have Cook next season.

 

[CP84]

You're putting the cart way in front of the horse. You need to make a decision on transfers months in advance of the early signing period. It's possible, like this year, that Iowa won't even have any verbals for their next recruiting class during transfer season.

You continuously misrepresent what I've said.

Of course you make transfer decisions ahead of signing day.

Last I checked we are CURRENTLY pursuing Harvey.

My comment, as very clearly stated, was simply that I'm reserving judgment about Fran until the dust settles on the whole class.

If he fails to land Harvey but makes up for it landing a top 30 class then all is well in my opinion. I won't sit back and bemoan the fact we missed on a transfer.

 

[CP84]

Iowa could use a backup to Weiskamp next year at a minimum. PMac will not be a P5 quality player next year when the Hawks play real teams that play physically. Iowa's current players have trouble hanging with physical athletic teams and they won't have Cook next season.

Disagree. Wieskamp logged most of his minutes at the 3 last year and he by no means is a physical presence. I think Pat puts on 10-15 lbs this spring/summer and I see his skillset as comparable to Louis King at Oregon.

We'll have plenty of physical presence and length at the 4-5 between Garza, Pemsl and Kriener.

Length and fundamentals are far more important than physical presence if you watched Virginia at all this year.

I'd much rather see a powerfoward hitting jumpers off a pick and roll than Cook fumbling into turnovers between power dunks.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

We have only 3 players leaving, 2 recruits coming in plus the 2 redshirts and Pemsl.

We'll have 11 scholarship players next year. We do not need a one and done grad transfer.

Nunge, Pemsl and Fredrick are essentially like adding 3 transfers to last year's roster.

I wasn't suggesting that we only look at a grad transfer, but to consider available transfers, grad or sit-then-play, to see if one could help fill some holes in the roster. Last year, a grad transfer at guard clearly would have made the most sense. This year, a transfer that sits a year probably makes the most sense. Which position is debatable, and would depend on which recruits we are most confident in landing in the 2020 class. I don't see any athletic bigs or tough, perimeter defenders with length on the roster next year or the year after, unless we recruit one. Do you?

 

[Ihawkhoops]

You make a good-rational argument until you make comments like "Fran chooses to live in denial".....which is so obviously a reflection of your feelings towards Fran and so far from reality.

Then you infer that I support or believe in offering scholarships to players that don't pan out......come on. With the other arguments you make you can obviously do better than that. Not only did I never say that....but please tell me the number of programs that get great production and play from EVERY player they recruit.

Base your thoughts in reality, remove the emotion, and you obviously have the intellect to make a good case when you do that. That would make for good discussion.

How can you say Fran doesn't live in denial when we have seen 3 years of Bohannon at PG? Nothing but respect for Bohannon. The kid gets 150% out of his talent but Fran has grossly underutilized one of the best shooters in the big ten by not getting him off the ball. Year 1 ok. Year 2 puzzling. Year 3 with a Connor add that actually made it easier for defenses to smother Bohannon because he is 0 threat to drive or shoot and I think it is very rational to say Fran lives in denial over what his guys can and can't do. The addition of a graduate transfer after last season was an absolute necessity given that Fran, better than anyone, knew what Connor could and could not do.

I am transparent about how I feel about Fran. Decent coach, does some nice stuff offensively, but doesn't know how to build a complimentary roster and defense is completely lost on him. How many shot creators does Iowa have? How many dribble drive threats does Iowa have? Who is a shot blocker or remotely close to a defensive stopper? You need at least 2 of 3 of these elements if you want to play up tempo.

It's not hard to emulate what others are doing by grabbing a graduate transfer when it makes sense. I would take 1 year of a guy who can upgrade the product on the floor vs. 3-4 years of guys who never get better and transfer. I guess that is just my emotion getting the best of me. No offense taken and none intended with my response. We just see this differently.

 

[TCOOL]