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Trump administration to deploy elite Border Patrol agents to sanctuary cities, including Chicago and

Dems want the votes, pubs want cheap labor. I am with the American worker on this and always have been.

This is a very valid point. And an issue that has usually hurt Dems. On one hand, Dems are supposed to be the party of the working man. On the other hand, Dems are also supposed to be compassionate toward the meek and downtrodden, so to speak.

Republicans have had a similar double-edge sword as they are viewed as the party of law and order; however, many businesses are aided by cheap labor and/or deal with a labor shortage and rely on illegals, which have usually tacitly garnered Republican support.

Trump was the first politician to really take this on as part of his populist message. Personally, as someone whose father was a union electrician, I am sympathetic to the cause of getting rid of cheap or scab labor. My father could tell you countless stories of crews of illegal labor that would completely f*** up a job that union guys, who should have been hired in the first place, had to go in and fix.

I have a neighbor who has a small construction business. The main reason he voted for Trump is he is tired of having to compete bidding jobs against companies that employ illegals and are able to underbid him, as he tries to give his workers decent benefits and a good wage. I totally respect that and am in agreement with it.

I don't have a major problem with the enforcement of our immigration laws and disagree with sanctuary cities. It's a shitty thing, because I wish we could be more open to people just looking for a better life, but I recognize it's just not practical.
 
I have a neighbor who has a small construction business. The main reason he voted for Trump is he is tired of having to compete bidding jobs against companies that employ illegals and are able to underbid him, as he tries to give his workers decent benefits and a good wage. I totally respect that and am in agreement with it.
I understand his perspective right up until he decides that voting for a guy who employs illegals is going to be part of the solution to that problem.
 
Please. Up until Trump, illegal immigration was hardly a central conservative talking point.

No, I wasn't being lazy. I was being glib. Much like you are.

And bullshit. I'm not going to attack ICE, but they have not been instructed to do the same thing that was being done during the Obama administration. Please. Just this year they were instructed to target work places, like the factories in Mississippi. Odd, how none of Trump's hotels were ever given that order, though.

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/13/ice-raids-mississippi-workers/

Congratulations, though, in regurgitating the usual array of Trumpian talking points. Well done, comrade.

You’re a fool. Illegal immigration has always been among the top conservative issues.

And if you truly think that motel workers are just as much of a priority as criminals and gang members, then you’re truly a dumb person.
 
I don't understand why Democrats are in support of illegal immigration and against enforcement of our immigration laws.

I don't get it.
 
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I don't understand why Democrats are in support of illegal immigration and against enforcement of our immigration laws.

I don't get it.
I am an independent so can’t speak for the dems. But I think our immigration laws are ineffective. They create needless bureaucracy that does not solve the problems you are trying to solve. The laws address secondary symptoms, not root cause issues.

On enforcement, we spend money wastefully (border walls, ICE) and inhumanely (detention).
 
The Trump administration is deploying law enforcement tactical units from the southern border as part of a supercharged arrest operation in sanctuary cities across the country, an escalation in the president’s battle against localities that refuse to participate in immigration enforcement.

The specially trained officers are being sent to cities including Chicago and New York to boost the enforcement power of local Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, according to two officials who are familiar with the secret operation. Additional agents are expected to be sent to San Francisco; Los Angeles, Atlanta, Houston, Boston, New Orleans, Detroit and Newark, New Jersey.

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The move reflects President Donald Trump’s persistence in cracking down on sanctuary cities, localities that have refused to cooperate in handing over immigrants targeted for deportation to federal authorities. It comes soon after the Justice Department and Department of Homeland Security announced a series of measures that will affect both American citizens and immigrants living in those places.

Lawrence Payne, a spokesman for Customs and Border Protection, confirmed the agency was deploying 100 officers to work with ICE, which conducts arrests in the interior of the country, “in order to enhance the integrity of the immigration system, protect public safety, and strengthen our national security.”


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What Is This? The deployment of the teams will run from February through May, according to an email sent to CBP personnel, which was read to The New York Times by one official familiar with the planning.

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Among the agents being deployed to sanctuary cities are members of the elite tactical unit known as BORTAC, which acts essentially as the SWAT team of the Border Patrol. With additional gear such as stun grenades and enhanced Special Forces-type training, including sniper certification, the officers typically conduct high-risk operations targeting individuals who are known to be violent, many of them with extensive criminal records.

The unit’s work often takes place in the most rugged and swelteringly hot areas of the border. It can involve breaking into stash houses maintained by smuggling operations that are known to be filled with drugs and weapons.

In sanctuary cities, the BORTAC agents will be asked to support interior officers in run-of-the-mill immigration arrests, the officials said. Their presence could spark new fear in immigrant communities that have been on high alert under the stepped-up deportation and detention policies adopted after Trump took office.

In a statement, ICE’s acting director, Matthew Albence, said the deployment comes in response to policies adopted by sanctuary cities, which have made it harder for immigration agents to do their jobs.

“As we have noted for years, in jurisdictions where we are not allowed to assume custody of aliens from jails, our officers are forced to make at-large arrests of criminal aliens who have been released into communities,” he said. “When sanctuary cities release these criminals back to the street, it increases the occurrence of preventable crimes, and more importantly, preventable victims.”

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But Gil Kerlikowske, the former commissioner of CBP, which oversees tactical units along the border, said sending the officers to conduct immigration enforcement within cities, where they are not trained to work, could escalate situations that are already volatile. He called the move a “significant mistake.”

“If you were a police chief and you were going to make an apprehension for a relatively minor offense, you don’t send the SWAT team. And BORTAC is the SWAT team,” said Kerlikowske, who is the former chief of police in Seattle. “They’re trained for much more hazardous missions than this.”

The Border Patrol squads will be charged with backing up ICE agents during deportation operations and standing by as a show of force, the officials said.

ICE agents typically seek out people with criminal convictions or multiple immigration violations as their primary targets for deportation, but family members and friends are often swept up in the enforcement net in what are known as “collateral” arrests, and many such people could now be caught up in any enhanced operations.

ICE leadership requested the help in sanctuary jurisdictions because agents there often struggle to track down immigrants living in the country illegally without the help of the police and other state and local agencies. Law enforcement officers in areas that refuse to cooperate with ICE and the Border Patrol — which include both liberal and conservative parts of the country — often argue that doing so pushes people living in the country illegally further into the shadows, ultimately making cities less safe because that segment of the population becomes less likely to report crimes or cooperate with investigations.

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The goal of the new joint operation, one of the officials said, was to increase arrests in the sanctuary jurisdictions by at least 35%.

The operation reflects an increasingly hawkish approach to immigration enforcement, following the firings and resignations of leaders who have been viewed in the White House as unwilling to take the harsh steps Trump and his advisers view as necessary to slow illegal immigration.

Other recent attempts at aggressive enforcement by ICE have faltered, such as a series of raids targeting more than 2,000 migrant families that were planned during the summer of 2019. Trump’s advance warnings on Twitter led many of those who were targeted to refuse to open their front doors, and ultimately, only 35 of those who had been targeted were arrested in the operation’s first several weeks.

Even with the added show of force from BORTAC, agents will be limited in their abilities compared to the police or sheriff’s deputies. Unlike operations on the border, where BORTAC agents may engage in armed confrontations with drug-smuggling suspects using armored vehicles, immigration agents in cities are enforcing civil, rather than criminal, infractions. They are not allowed to forcibly enter properties in order to make arrests, and the presence of BORTAC agents, while helpful in boosting the number of agents on the ground, may prove most useful for the visual message it sends.

The agents will not be busting down doors or engaging in shootouts, said one official with direct knowledge of the operation, who like the other official would not be identified because he was not authorized to discuss it.



https://www.chicagotribune.com/nati...0200214-6ky533y57rd4lojo73p725i6me-story.html
“Elite” border patrol agents made me think of.......

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You’re a fool. Illegal immigration has always been among the top conservative issues.

And if you truly think that motel workers are just as much of a priority as criminals and gang members, then you’re truly a dumb person.

In other words, you have nothing to repudiate what I wrote, so you resort to ad hominem attacks.

You lose.
 
I am an independent so can’t speak for the dems. But I think our immigration laws are ineffective. They create needless bureaucracy that does not solve the problems you are trying to solve. The laws address secondary symptoms, not root cause issues.

On enforcement, we spend money wastefully (border walls, ICE) and inhumanely (detention).

So what would you do?
 
In other words, you have nothing to repudiate what I wrote, so you resort to ad hominem attacks.

You lose.


If I remember correctly, they tried to do some work on immigration reform and quite a few people who were conservative were against it because of the path to citizenship. I believe in a mid term election the dems lost a lot of seats and that was part of it.

Politicians and special interests aren't always on the same page with the public.
 
I am an independent so can’t speak for the dems. But I think our immigration laws are ineffective. They create needless bureaucracy that does not solve the problems you are trying to solve. The laws address secondary symptoms, not root cause issues.

On enforcement, we spend money wastefully (border walls, ICE) and inhumanely (detention).

So open borders then?
 
So what would you do?
It depends what problem you really want to solve: my guess is you are worried about the jobs they “take” from under employed Americans living off the government that can’t/won’t find a job.

You have to look at the reasons why people in the US are not doing those jobs. Most likely they are single parents with poor education and limited training that make more from government payments than they would in the workforce. Stopping Mexicans at the border does not fix this. Living wages, easy access to birth control, better childcare options and accessible education/training are the paths here. Stop putting bandaids on a flu patient and treat the actual issue.
 
It depends what problem you really want to solve: my guess is you are worried about the jobs they “take” from under employed Americans living off the government that can’t/won’t find a job.

You have to look at the reasons why people in the US are not doing those jobs. Most likely they are single parents with poor education and limited training that make more from government payments than they would in the workforce. Stopping Mexicans at the border does not fix this. Living wages, easy access to birth control, better childcare options and accessible education/training are the paths here. Stop putting bandaids on a flu patient and treat the actual issue.

If a country has no borders, what makes it a country? Are there any security risks?
 
It depends what problem you really want to solve: my guess is you are worried about the jobs they “take” from under employed Americans living off the government that can’t/won’t find a job.

You have to look at the reasons why people in the US are not doing those jobs. Most likely they are single parents with poor education and limited training that make more from government payments than they would in the workforce. Stopping Mexicans at the border does not fix this. Living wages, easy access to birth control, better childcare options and accessible education/training are the paths here. Stop putting bandaids on a flu patient and treat the actual issue.

I’ll ask again, what would you do?
 
I’ll ask again, what would you do?
Dry up the demand. Spend a fraction of what we spend on building a wall in the desert and ICE raids to crack down on employers. If the fines are large and enforced it won't be profitable to hire illegals. The majority of illegal labor didn't arrive by illegally crossing the border, so a wall doesn't deter them. And if the concern is about preventing crossing, then modern technologies will do a much better job anyway.
 
I’ll ask again, what would you do?
Since you don’t know how to connect dots I will spell it out for you:
1) living wage = raise minimum wage to $15/hour
2) Easy access to birth control = hand condoms and the pill out like candy. They are worth a fortune in saved Medicaid and welfare down the road.
3) childcare = extend public access to schools to preschool ages (plus offer better family leave). Increase after school programs. This will allow parents the time to participate in the workforce.
4) accessible training and education = improve incentives for people to get the GED and other job training. Since we improved childcare, we can now use the time kids are there to train the parents. This means investing in continuing education resources in impoverished communities.

I know you will say that I am giving more handouts. But first think of the savings. Less Medicaid, less welfare, more tax payers, better communities means less costly violence.

Eventually the program will pay for itself, but there are startup costs. I would fund the above by diverting spending from the military, reduced border spending and public public/private partnerships.

Or we can do the current plan of building a wall that won’t work, yelling at people to get a job, buying more missiles, and raiding businesses for illegals when we don’t have enough qualified workers as it is.
 
I don't understand why Democrats are in support of illegal immigration and against enforcement of our immigration laws.

I don't get it.

And then complain wages are too low with all of these uneducated, untrained people flooding the job market. I don’t agree with hiring illegals, only those migrants that have gone through the legal process of getting a green card and are trying to better their lives in this great country.

Those that are here to murder (MS-13), rape, and break our laws, need to go. Help those that want to help themselves. I’m all for immigration, legal immigration as the government needs to establish a system that allows people to be here to have a better life but you can’t sit on your ass and expect the government to take care of you.
 
Since you don’t know how to connect dots I will spell it out for you:
1) living wage = raise minimum wage to $15/hour
2) Easy access to birth control = hand condoms and the pill out like candy. They are worth a fortune in saved Medicaid and welfare down the road.
3) childcare = extend public access to schools to preschool ages (plus offer better family leave). Increase after school programs. This will allow parents the time to participate in the workforce.
4) accessible training and education = improve incentives for people to get the GED and other job training. Since we improved childcare, we can now use the time kids are there to train the parents. This means investing in continuing education resources in impoverished communities.

I know you will say that I am giving more handouts. But first think of the savings. Less Medicaid, less welfare, more tax payers, better communities means less costly violence.

Eventually the program will pay for itself, but there are startup costs. I would fund the above by diverting spending from the military, reduced border spending and public public/private partnerships.

Or we can do the current plan of building a wall that won’t work, yelling at people to get a job, buying more missiles, and raiding businesses for illegals when we don’t have enough qualified workers as it is.

How does any of this stop people from entering the country illegally?
 
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How does any of this stop people from entering the country illegally?
I don’t see illegal immigration as a major problem - its a symptom of other issues in our society and their societies. I care more about solving those underlying root problems.

One of the usual arguments against illegal immigration is because they are taking jobs. Instead of treating the symptom (illegal immigration) let’s solve the root issue (underemployed Americans who won’t do those jobs). I was responding to a question on how to solve the root issue.

If you have other immigration concerns (terrorism, etc) then let’s address the root issues there as well. ICE and a border wall won’t do that. Again, you are putting a bandaid on a flu patient.
 
I don’t see illegal immigration as a major problem - its a symptom of other issues in our society and their societies. I care more about solving those underlying root problems.

One of the usual arguments against illegal immigration is because they are taking jobs. Instead of treating the symptom (illegal immigration) let’s solve the root issue (underemployed Americans who won’t do those jobs). I was responding to a question on how to solve the root issue.

If you have other immigration concerns (terrorism, etc) then let’s address the root issues there as well. ICE and a border wall won’t do that. Again, you are putting a bandaid on a flu patient.

So you have no problem with anyone and everyone waking into this country unabated. You don’t think that’s a problem?

And higher minimum wages and more free stuff will only make people more likely to want to come in.

This is a bizarre take.
 
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The onus needs to be put back on the governments of where these people are coming from. Stop being corrupt and actually enforce your laws, be pro business to help your homeland people become better educated, offer jobs at a wage that allows people to have a quality life with healthcare options in their country so they don’t have to come to the US illegally.
 
So you have no problem with anyone and everyone waking into this country unabated. You don’t think that’s a problem?

And higher minimum wages and more free stuff will only make people more likely to want to come in.

This is a bizarre take.
What are you so worried about? Personally I am really not bothered by immigration and I live in Chicago where we have massive numbers of immigrants. I am bothered by the underlying issues and you can’t have those both ways:

If you don’t solve for underemployment of American citizens then you need immigrants or you have less domestic production. In this case immigrants are vital to the economy. So let’s make it easy for them to come in legally and become productive citizens. Right now we make it difficult so they resort to the illegal path.

If you do solve for underemployment then we have a more productive citizen workforce = higher gdp growth = more demand = we likely still need more immigrants to fill demand.

In general I don’t see immigration as that much of a drain on society I see it as a net positive.
 
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What are you so worried about? Personally I am really not bothered by immigration and I live in Chicago where we have massive numbers of immigrants. I am bothered by the underlying issues and you can’t have those both ways:

If you don’t solve for underemployment of American citizens then you need immigrants or you have less domestic production. In this case immigrants are vital to the economy. So let’s make it easy for them to come in legally and become productive citizens. Right now we make it difficult so they resort to the illegal path.

If you do solve for underemployment then we have a more productive citizen workforce = higher gdp growth = more demand = we likely still need more immigrants to fill demand.

In general I don’t see immigration as that much of a drain on society I see it as a net positive.

There is a difference between immigration and illegal immigration. I am not opposed to immigration in any way. I am opposed to illegal immigration.
 
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The onus needs to be put back on the governments of where these people are coming from. Stop being corrupt and actually enforce your laws, be pro business to help your homeland people become better educated, offer jobs at a wage that allows people to have a quality life with healthcare options in their country so they don’t have to come to the US illegally.

Sounds great. How do we do that?
 
The logic on the right is fascinating to me. Let’s spend a bunch of money and use our most highly trained border agents to round up all illegals so we can catch the very few that are violent criminals.

Way to swat a fly with a howitzer. Why not just extend your logic to end all violent crime in this country?

Let’s round up and incarcerate everyone in high crime neighborhoods. Who cares if some productive innocent people are behind bars, the crime rate went down after all.

But wait, sometimes violent crime happens in low crime neighborhoods. Often by males, ages 16-50. Let’s lock them up too.

But wait, sometimes it’s white Jewish women that commit violent crimes, let’s lock them up too. And so it goes on and on. It’s the exact same logic, and it is deplorable.

First-they-came.jpg

^^^^^

Just dumb. Your comparison is ridiculous. It’s almost as if you’re intentionally ignoring the fact that they broke the law.
 
^^^^^

Just dumb. Your comparison is ridiculous. It’s almost as if you’re intentionally ignoring the fact that they broke the law.
First tell me why it’s dumb and ridiculous. Debate the actual points.

Second, is your sole concern that they broke the law? Do you share this same concern for all lawbreakers? Of course you don’t since I have seen you support Trump who has broken many laws. It’s hard to take you serious on rule of law issues given your inherent hypocrisy.
 
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First tell me why it’s dumb and ridiculous. Debate the actual points.

Second, is your sole concern that they broke the law? Do you share this same concern for all lawbreakers? Of course you don’t since I have seen you support Trump who has broken many laws. It’s hard to take you serious on rule of law issues given your inherent hypocrisy.

As a comparison you asked why we don’t arrest everyone in a certain community. Because everyone didn’t break the law. That’s why. And that’s why your comparison is absurd.
 
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As a comparison you asked why we don’t arrest everyone in a certain community. Because everyone didn’t break the law. That’s why. And that’s why your comparison is absurd.
Cool this should be a fun game. I could get used to the idea that we arrest and detain anyone who breaks any law. We can even take turns.

(Time-out before we get started let me just double down on my holdings of private prison companies).

OK I’m back...I’ll start with Donald Trump for illegally using charitable contributions on his presidential campaign.

Your turn hypocrite.
 
Cool this should be a fun game. I could get used to the idea that we arrest and detain anyone who breaks any law. We can even take turns.

(Time-out before we get started let me just double down on my holdings of private prison companies).

OK I’m back...I’ll start with Donald Trump for illegally using charitable contributions on his presidential campaign.

Your turn hypocrite.

Just save everyone the time and trouble and say you don’t believe in borders or border enforcement whatsoever.

I can’t believe I wasted time even having a discussion on the topic.
 
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Just save everyone the time and trouble and say you don’t believe in borders or border enforcement whatsoever.

I can’t believe I wasted time even having a discussion on the topic.
And that’s the problem. You don’t want to debate or solve the underlying issues, all you want is the appearance of being tough on the symptom. Well all the best anyway!
 
And that’s the problem. You don’t want to debate or solve the underlying issues, all you want is the appearance of being tough on the symptom. Well all the best anyway!

The issue I’m discussing, the one this thread is about, is illegal immigration. You don’t think it’s an issue or a problem. I think a $15 minimum wage is completely irrelevant to the issue of people entering this country illegally.

So yes you are correct. I’m not interested in debating topics that are completely unrelated to illegal immigration.
 
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Cool this should be a fun game. I could get used to the idea that we arrest and detain anyone who breaks any law. We can even take turns.

(Time-out before we get started let me just double down on my holdings of private prison companies).

OK I’m back...I’ll start with Donald Trump for illegally using charitable contributions on his presidential campaign.

Your turn hypocrite.

Deflection at its finest.

Listen, you’re the one tossing around absurd comparisons. You’re getting called out on it.

That’s a YOU problem.
 
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