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U.S. v. Flynn - Potential Timeline Emerging

AuroraHawk

HR Heisman
Dec 18, 2004
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As it appeared to be of interest in a prior thread. I've cut and pasted the bolded portion below from Judge John Gleeson's motion (Doc. 209 - filed on 5/15/2020):

Because the Court’s order and the government’s motion raise important and complex issues, I respectfully request permission to submit a brief on or before June 10, 2020, addressing three issues: (1) the legal framework applicable to the Court’s authority with respect to a motion to dismiss brought under Rule 48 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure (including both the constitutional validity of the Court’s authority to deny such a motion and the standard to be applied in deciding one); (2) any additional factual development I may need before finalizing my argument in opposition to the government’s motion in this case; and (3) whether, based on the record before the Court, it should order the defendant to show cause why he should not be held in criminal contempt for perjury. I respectfully suggest that the Court set a schedule for responses (by the government, the defendant, and any other amici) to my filing, a reply by me to those responses, and oral argument. Upon the resolution of the issues addressed by my brief or raised in response to it, a schedule for any remaining proceedings could be set. Of course, I will proceed in whatever manner and on whatever timeline the Court directs, and I understand the need for an expeditious resolution of the issues identified in the Court’s May 13 order.

On of the issues previously highlighted in the other thread involves the timing of briefs submitted to the Court and potential oral argument.

Based upon this motion, Judge Gleeson wants to have up to June 10th to file his brief. He was appointed amicus curiae on May 13th. Thus, he is is seeking 28 days to file his brief. Anyone practicing in federal court would recognize this as a reasonable time frame. Given the volume of documents and the issues presented, 28 days actually seems to be fairly ambitious.

I expect that Judge Sullivan will grant the motion and order that Judge Gleeson file the brief on or before June 10th.

I also expect Judge Sullivan to enter what is known as a "briefing schedule." As noted by Judge Gleeson, a "briefing schedule" would identify dates by which response briefs ("opposition" briefs) shall be filed by Flynn's counsel and DOJ's counsel. It would also cover other amici briefing which will be submitted to advocate for Flynn's position. It is not unreasonable to expect that Judge Sullivan would allow for 28 days for the submission of response briefs. That would make for a due date of July 8th.

Judge Sullivan would then want to file his "reply" brief . . . addressing arguments raised by Flynn's counsel, DOJ's counsel and amici submissions. As you might suspect, those submissions could be voluminous. Further, Judge Gleeson's motion did not reference potential amici briefs submitted that counter those advancing Flynn's position. Because "reply" briefs are usually limited to arguments raised only in "response" briefs and are not intended to raise new arguments or re-raise previous arguments, the time frame for filing "reply" briefs is often shorter than the original brief and "response" briefs (14-21 days). That written, given the complexities of the issues before the Court and the potential desire to allow amici to file "reply" briefs, it wouldn't shock me if Judge Sullivan allows for 28 days - up to August 5th - for the filing of "reply" briefs.

The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure allow for parties to seek leave to file "surreply" briefs. They are disfavored but allowable under certain circumstances. I don't anticipate that Judge Sullivan's briefing schedule will identify a date by which "surreply" briefs are to be filed. That written, I'd be shocked if Flynn's counsel, DOJ's counsel and/or amici don't attempt to seek leave to file additional pleadings.

Judge Gleeson asks Judge Sullivan to include a date on which oral argument will take place. If the last briefs are submitted on August 5th (again, assuming no "surreply" briefs are filed), I'd anticipate that the very earliest that Judge Sullivan would set for argument would be August 19th (14 days after the last brief). If he wants additional time to review the submissions in anticipation of the arguments and/or build in extra time for those who might seek leave to file "surreply" briefs, the argument could easily be set in early September.

Judge Sullivan could rule from the bench immediately. That, IMO, is extremely unlikely. I anticipate a lengthy written order will be authored by Judge Sullivan.

This is where the time line gets interesting.

If the case is submitted to the Court after argument during the first week of September, that is approximately 60 days before the election. Might Sullivan issue his ruling within 2 months? Certainly possible. Might it take longer than 2 months? Certainly possible. Bottom line . . . expecting an order by Judge Sullivan before the election is a fool's errand - particularly if the briefing schedule plays out as noted above.

If Judge Sullivan does not issue an order prior to the election AND Biden wins the election, there is an approximate 75 day window to Inauguration Day. While I don't expect Judge Sullivan to "sit" on a potential ruling for 4+ months, I've waited longer times for rulings from a federal judge (they have to report to court administration in DC any pending motions that are six months or older) Barring some unexpected development and if the issue remains pending on the eve of the inauguration, I don't see DT Barnum sitting on his hands; I'd anticipate him pardoning Flynn.

One caveat to everything noted above . . . Judge Gleeson references his understanding of the need for an "expeditious" resolution. If Judge Sullivan is so inclined, he could enter some type of expedited briefing schedule which shortens the time frame for responses. Given that Michael Flynn is (a) not currently in jail and (b) the government previously recommended no jail time for him, I'd be curious to know what basis will may be cited for an expedited schedule. Seems to me that the primary basis for seeking an expedited ruling would be . . . DT Barnum loses the election, AG Barr loses his job and the DOJ no longer permits Flynn to escape his previously filed plea.

One interesting hypothesis . . . if Judge Sullivan truly believes that AG Barr and Flynn's counsel are "in cahoots," he could sit on the pending motion until after DT Barnum makes a decision on issuing a pardon. If a pardon is granted, everything is mooted and he wouldn't have to rule on a potentially divisive legal issue. If a pardon is not granted, AG Flynn will be fired immediately when the new administration is sworn in and whomever is serving as the interim AG could immediately withdraw the Motion for Leave to Dismiss the case. A withdrawal of the motion would also moot at least most, if not all of the issues subject to the briefing schedule. Again . . . that would avoid ruling on a potentially divisive legal issue.

Finally . . . a question to which I do not know the answer. Can Judge Sullivan grant the motion but convert the dismissal to one without prejudice? I've read somewhere that may be a possibility but I have a hard time believing that would be consistent with FRCP 48(a). While that would open the door to further prosecution (no double jeopardy), converting the dismissal to one without prejudice would seem to prejudice Flynn because he'd be open to all potential charges being reinstated. That seems like exactly the type of conduct that was criticized in prior cases.

Even if the charges are dismissed without prejudice, DT Barnum could issue a pardon so that Flynn can't be charged in the future.

I'm still "betting" on Judge Sullivan granting the government's motion. For me, the timing is now the issue. Right now, I'm leaning towards expecting a ruling after Election Day. Entry of an expedited briefing schedule by Judge Sullivan would likely cause me to alter that particular expectation.
 
Latest entries . . . Judge Sullivan issues expedited briefing schedule. 7 days for Flynn/DOJ to file response briefs. 7 days for reply briefs. 2 days for surreply briefs. Hearing scheduled for July 16.

I don't know whether the application for Writ of Mandamus in the Court of Appeals would operate to stay lower court proceedings . . . I'm thinking that some party/entity would have to request a stay.

By entering an expedited scheduling order and assuming a hearing on July 16th (no requests for an extended briefing schedule or no stay entered) . . . I think that it is far more likely - indeed probable - that Judge Sullivan issues his ruling before Election Day. I'm still "betting" that he grants the government's motion.

05/19/2020 MINUTE ORDER as to MICHAEL T. FLYNN granting 209 Motion to File Amicus Brief. The following schedule shall govern the proceedings in this case subject to a motion for reconsideration, for good cause shown, filed by no later than 12:00 PM on May 26, 2020: (1) the Court-appointed amicus curiae shall file the amicus brief by no later than 12:00 PM on June 10, 2020; (2) any motion seeking leave to file an amicus brief by non-Court-appointed amicus curiae shall be filed by no later than 12:00 PM on June 10, 2020; (3) the government and Mr. Flynn shall file their responses to the amicus brief of the Court-appointed amicus curiae by no later than 12:00 PM on June 17, 2020; (4) the Court-appointed amicus curiae shall file a reply brief by no later than 12:00 PM on June 24, 2020; (5) the government and Mr. Flynn shall file any sur-reply briefs by no later than 12:00 PM on June 26, 2020; and (6) the government, Mr. Flynn, and the Court-appointed amicus curiae shall file a consolidated response to any amicus brief of non-Court-appointed amicus curiae by no later than 12:00 PM on July 2, 2020. Movants seeking leave to file an amicus brief are HEREBY NOTIFIED that the Court will deny any motion for leave to file an amicus brief that fails to strictly comply with the applicable Local Rules. It is FURTHER ORDERED that the Court schedules oral argument for July 16, 2020 at 11:00 AM in Courtroom 24A. Signed by Judge Emmet G. Sullivan on 5/19/2020. (lcegs3) (Entered: 05/19/2020)
05/20/2020 Set/Reset Deadlines as to MICHAEL T. FLYNN: Motion For Reconsideration due no later than 12:00PM on 5/26/2020. Court- Appointed Amicus Curiae Amicus Brief due no later than 12:00PM on 6/10/2020. Motion Seeking Leave To Fila An Amicus Brief By Non-Court-Appointed Amicus Curiae due no later than 12:00PM on 6/10/2020. Government And Defendant Responses To The Amicus Brief Of The Court-Appointed Amicus Curiae due no later than 12:00PM on 6/17/2020. Court-Appointed Amicus Curiae Reply Brief due no later than 12:00PM on 6/24/2020. Government And Defendant Sur-Reply Briefs due no later than 12:00PM on 6/26/2020.Government, Defendant And Court-Appointed Amicus Curiae Consolidated Response To Any Amicus Brief Of Non-Court Appointed Amicus Curiae due no later than 12:00PM on 7/2/2020. (mac) (Entered: 05/20/2020)
05/20/2020 Set/Reset Hearings as to MICHAEL T. FLYNN:Oral Arguments set for 7/16/2020 at 11:00 AM in Courtroom 24A before Judge Emmet G. Sullivan. (mac) (Entered: 05/20/2020)
 
Will Harvard Pull Obama’s Law Degree, Absent a Confession?
May 17, 2020

By Ray McGovern, May 17, 2020

Obama’s recent remarks indicate that the former president needs remedial instruction in the law. Happily, this has now been offered by Sidney Powell, a graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law and attorney for Gen. Michael Flynn. Will Obama be able to swallow his pride and correct his inaccurate statements about legal precedents regarding Flynn? Or will he let them stand in Nixonian-type variant; as in, “If a (former) president says it’s illegal, that means it’s illegal.”

https://sidneypowell.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Obama-Memo-Edits-NEW-FINAL.pdf
 
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77d545d18daf415a721955cd46bd3c7a51d67ce183b9fac4c1089745785ad400.gif
 
Will Harvard Pull Obama’s Law Degree, Absent a Confession?
May 17, 2020

By Ray McGovern, May 17, 2020

Obama’s recent remarks indicate that the former president needs remedial instruction in the law. Happily, this has now been offered by Sidney Powell, a graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law and attorney for Gen. Michael Flynn. Will Obama be able to swallow his pride and correct his inaccurate statements about legal precedents regarding Flynn? Or will he let them stand in Nixonian-type variant; as in, “If a (former) president says it’s illegal, that means it’s illegal.”

https://sidneypowell.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Obama-Memo-Edits-NEW-FINAL.pdf

That was brutal.
 
Will Harvard Pull Obama’s Law Degree, Absent a Confession?
May 17, 2020

By Ray McGovern, May 17, 2020

Obama’s recent remarks indicate that the former president needs remedial instruction in the law. Happily, this has now been offered by Sidney Powell, a graduate of the University of North Carolina School of Law and attorney for Gen. Michael Flynn. Will Obama be able to swallow his pride and correct his inaccurate statements about legal precedents regarding Flynn? Or will he let them stand in Nixonian-type variant; as in, “If a (former) president says it’s illegal, that means it’s illegal.”

https://sidneypowell.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Obama-Memo-Edits-NEW-FINAL.pdf
AdorableDearestHen-small.gif
 
Where? When?
Mr. Flynn, who served less than a month as the national security adviser before resigning in disgrace, pleaded guilty in December 2017 to lying to F.B.I. investigators about his communications with the Russian ambassador.

When asked about the plea at the time, Mr. Trump said, “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the vice president and the F.B.I.”
 
I agree the masking/unmasking issue is confusing and being used by both sides to create something of a sideshow. Whether the information was first unmasked or not though, the true issue is that it appears that confidential information was leaked to the press for the express purpose of creating a pretext to conduct an interview with Flynn. This interview was set up in an abnormally closely-held process, skipping usual chain of command, based on an investigation that was not even supposed to be open anymore due to lack of any compelling evidence, and marred by very questionable 302 documentation and other internal correspondence where there are strong indications that Flynn was being set up.

The Flynn encounter with investigators was conducted under the false pretense of a friendly meeting with allies, with the classic "don't bring your lawyer unless you are guilty and want this to get a lot worse for you" style coercion tactic to entice him to agree to the sudden meeting in the first place, and even after the meeting was over, notes show that the agents conducting it weren't sure if he even lied. That Obama appeared to be surprisingly familiar with details of the investigation provides fodder for "Obamagate" accusations for Trump, even if there isn't much to it beyond innuendo at this point.

Bottom line, whether Flynn is clean or dirty or somewhere in between for other reasons (such as his work with Turkey), this particular investigation of him appears to have been based on nothing in particular, and the charges against him unfounded and highly manipulated and his prior guilty plea coerced based on threats against his family, which has been a well-documented MO of those bringing the case against him in past cases. To me, it looks like an ill-conceived fishing expedition by people convinced of their conclusions before the evidence led them there, who then were bent and determined to create evidence and further pretext to continue their crusade against an incoming administration that they loathed and considered dangerous.
 
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Mr. Flynn, who served less than a month as the national security adviser before resigning in disgrace, pleaded guilty in December 2017 to lying to F.B.I. investigators about his communications with the Russian ambassador.

When asked about the plea at the time, Mr. Trump said, “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the vice president and the F.B.I.”
Okay...but where is the perjury? I think you are using terms inaccurately and are not particular familiar with the actual details and facts of this case.
 
I agree the masking/unmasking issue is confusing and being used by both sides to create something of a sideshow. Whether the information was first unmasked or not though, the true issue is that it appears that confidential information was leaked to the press for the express purpose of creating a pretext to conduct an interview with Flynn. This interview was set up in an abnormally closely-held process, skipping usual chain of command, based on an investigation that was not even supposed to be open anymore due to lack of any compelling evidence

FUNFACT: The Clinton Email investigation was actually CLOSED when that nugget was announced.....
 
FUNFACT: The Clinton Email investigation was actually CLOSED when that nugget was announced.....
Are you trying to convince me that Comey was terrible at his job and often had horrendous lapses of judgement and was far too comfortable bending/breaking rules and appeared to foster an environment where his subordinates did the same? Okay. Mission accomplished. Now, try to stay on subject.
 
Okay...but where is the perjury? I think you are using terms inaccurately and are not particular familiar with the actual details and facts of this case.

If by that you mean I haven't wasted as much time as you have on this topic, you're right.

Four-star generals turned National Security Advisors don't get coerced into lying about lying.
 
It would have been a lot easier if Flynn hadn't acted as an unregistered foreign agent, and lied to federal agents.
But, I guess when it only matters how aggrieved and oppressed you want your low information base to feel, then you turn traitors/criminals into lemonade.
 
Are you trying to convince me that Comey was terrible at his job

No. I'm informing you that an allegation an "investigation should have been closed".....but "then new information was gathered" makes your premise irrelevant.

Clinton's emails DID need to be re-opened, because NEW INFORMATION came to light.

Just.Like.Flynn

Quit pretending to be outraged; the standard in both cases is and should be the same, Ergo, the investigation into Flynn's call was absolutely fine.
 
If by that you mean I haven't wasted as much time as you have on this topic, you're right.

Four-star generals turned National Security Advisors don't get coerced into lying about lying.
So you have no clue what you are talking about, but feel very strongly about it. Whatever works for you I guess.
 
Even Mueller and his team told the judge that Flynn's single charge of lying does NOT warrant 1 single day in jail. Moderna needs to make it a priority to develop a vaccine for Trump Derangement Syndrome and park Covid-19 trials in the garage.
 
So you have no clue what you are talking about, but feel very strongly about it. Whatever works for you I guess.

No; he knows exactly what he's talking about. No one working in the upper echelons of our Natl Security should EVER be getting "punk'd" by the FBI. Ever.
 
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Even Mueller and his team told the judge that Flynn's single charge of lying does NOT warrant 1 single day in jail.
Really? Cuz that's not what the Mueller prosecutor has said. He quit the case over the shenanigans going on.
 
Even Mueller and his team told the judge that Flynn's single charge of lying does NOT warrant 1 single day in jail.

That's only part of the story. The rest is that they said Flynn lied to multiple federal agents, on multiple occasions, on multiple topics, but that he should serve little to no time on the lone charge he pleaded to because he provided substantial investigative assistance; not because Flynn's crimes didn't warrant.

It's the difference between the truth and the whole truth ...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-muellers-full-recommendation-for-flynns-sentencing-in-russia-probe[/QUOTE]
 
No. I'm informing you that an allegation an "investigation should have been closed".....but "then new information was gathered" makes your premise irrelevant.

Clinton's emails DID need to be re-opened, because NEW INFORMATION came to light.

Just.Like.Flynn

Quit pretending to be outraged; the standard in both cases is and should be the same, Ergo, the investigation into Flynn's call was absolutely fine.
What new information? That he spoke to a Russian counterpart during the transition process on a call that was completely appropriate and where nothing illegal transpired? Sure, they tried to massage it into a Logan Act violation, which makes no sense since he was part of an incoming administration, and so they pretty much immediately dropped that line of attack and instead decided to apparently attempt to entrap him. It bears keeping in mind that he was aware that his conversation would have been recorded, that he was never informed that he was being interviewed as part of any investigation and coerced to take the interviewed without counsel, and that the agents who questioned him (armed with the call transcripts, which they did not share with him) didn't even think that he lied at the time. It wasn't until weeks later and multiple "edits" of the 302 where the supposed lie emerged. And even that was super weak. Along the lines of: Q - "Did you say this specific sentence on the call" A - "No, I don't think so, but I don't really recall"...and then three weeks later: "Ha! Liar!". Without a transcript, it is really hard to make a case like that. It is also pretty apparent based on the timing of other leaks, and the MO of the agents and prosecutors involved from their past cases, that they threatened him, and especially his family, with harsh, incessant prosecutions that would bankrupt him and his family and hold them under threat of lengthy prison sentences for years during strung out court proceedings unless he just plead to a relatively minor crime to put it all behind him.

I don't doubt that the agents and prosecutors thought they were doing good work here, but that is part of what makes it so concerning. The casual way that these guys flouted procedure, precedent, and even law in the pursuit of their presupposed conclusions and the extent to which it appears that that was the culture that had been cultivated in the FBI and Justice Department. Like I said before, none of this clears Flynn of any potential wrongdoing in his lobbying efforts on behalf of foreign entities, he may or may not have culpability there, it is hard to say with lots of conflicting evidence and statements...but it is pretty clear that he got railroaded here, and that this is not just a random isolated incident - it seems a lot more like SOP for the Obama era FBI and Justice Department with similar tendencies on display in the Crossfire Hurricane debacle.
 
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That's only part of the story. The rest is that they said Flynn lied to multiple federal agents, on multiple occasions, on multiple topics, but that he should serve little to no time on the lone charge he pleaded to because he provided substantial investigate assistance; not because Flynn's crimes didn't warrant.

It's the difference between the truth and the whole truth ...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...ndation-for-flynns-sentencing-in-russia-probe

Ooopsies.

Nat, misinformed, and Lyin' Again!!!!
 
What new information? That he spoke to a Russian counterpart during the transition process on a call that was completely appropriate and where nothing illegal transpired?

Those are presumptions on your part.

The fact he LIED about the call and what he discussed implies neither is true.
 
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What new information? That he spoke to a Russian counterpart during the transition process on a call that was completely appropriate and where nothing illegal transpired? Sure, they tried to massage it into a Logan Act violation, which makes no sense since he was part of an incoming administration, and so they pretty much immediately dropped that line of attack and instead decided to apparently attempt to entrap him. It bears keeping in mind that he was aware that his conversation would have been recorded, that he was never informed that he was being interviewed as part of any investigation and coerced to take the interviewed without counsel, and that the agents who questioned him (armed with the call transcripts, which they did not share with him) didn't even think that he lied at the time. It wasn't until weeks later and multiple "edits" of the 302 where the supposed lie emerged. And even that was super weak. Along the lines of: Q - "Did you say this specific sentence on the call" A - "No, I don't think so, but I don't really recall"...and then three weeks later: "Ha! Liar!". Without a transcript, it is really hard to make a case like that. It is also pretty apparent based on the timing of other leaks, and the MO of the agents and prosecutors involved from their past cases, that they threatened him, and especially his family, with harsh, incessant prosecutions that would bankrupt him and his family and hold them under threat of lengthy prison sentences for years during strung out court proceedings unless he just plead to a relatively minor crime to put it all behind him.

I don't doubt that the agents and prosecutors thought they were doing good work here, but that is part of what makes it so concerning. The casual way that these guys flouted procedure, precedent, and even law in the pursuit of their presupposed conclusions and the extent to which it appears that that was the culture that had been cultivated in the FBI and Justice Department. Like I said before, none of this clears Flynn of any potential wrongdoing in his lobbying efforts on behalf of foreign entities, he may or may not have culpability there, it is hard to say with lots of conflicting evidence and statements...but it is pretty clear that he got railroaded here, and that this is not just a random isolated incident - it seems a lot more like SOP for the Obama era FBI and Justice Department with similar tendencies on display in the Crossfire Hurricane debacle.
You're citing more and more reasons for Flynn to have simply told the truth originally.
 
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What new information?

...and....perchance....it's related to the "information" that spurred multiple people, across multiple agencies, to "unmask" his convos with foreign leaders/contacts on several occasions. Amazing that little factoid gets left out here....
 
Okay...but where is the perjury? I think you are using terms inaccurately and are not particular familiar with the actual details and facts of this case.
It's hard to believe, but the perjury would be pleading guilty when he wasn't.
 
You're citing more and more reasons for Flynn to have simply told the truth originally.
Clearly, he should have, and that's what has most observers puzzled. There was no reason he shouldn't have been talking to the Russian ambassador, and based on the information that's been released so far, he didn't say anything in that conversation that he shouldn't have said.
 
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It's hard to believe, but the perjury would be pleading guilty when he wasn't.

Judge Sullivan is way out of line on this perjury crap. Flynn and his attorney are claiming materiality is lacking based on circumstances that were unknown to him at the time he pleaded guilty. His claim of innocence is not based a claim that he lied about lying.
 
Judge Sullivan is way out of line on this perjury crap. Flynn and his attorney are claiming materiality is lacking based on circumstances that were unknown to him at the time he pleaded guilty. His claim of innocence is not based a claim that he lied about lying.
But isn't that what they're going to use as a basis for a perjury charge? That he pleaded guilty when he knew he wasn't?
 
Those are presumptions on your part.

The fact he LIED about the call and what he discussed implies neither is true.
You are stating that as a fact...but based on what actual evidence? A massaged 302, in which the actual agents conducting the interview didn't even think he lied? A guilty plea as part of a bargain that has significant earmarks of having been coerced? The Mueller sentencing recommendation document is pretty light on evidence already, and with the newly unclassified internal communications now available surrounding them, the contentions of "multiple lies" within it are cast in a pretty dubious light.
 
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