US Open results

[pablow]

. . .

I would love to see Iowa get that kind of elite talent. Hall and Lee would fit that bill. Tremendous potential. But jmho, I would not expect 4 titles from each. I'd be happy,... but just saying... only 4 have done it in ncaa history. The odds of anyone doing it are small.[/QUOTE]

Consider Kolat and Fried. Most rank them as the best two high school wreslers in the last 30 years. Both lived up to their hype and yet between them they only won three championships.

Dave Schultz was a mere one-timer and coming off his senior year in HS he was one of the best wrestlers in the world.

These guys did not falter in college, they just got beat. It's tough.

Being a four timer requires a little divine intervention.

 

[dicemen99]

I know amalone rankles quite a few of you here, but it makes for an interesting read.

One thing I would like to point out is that the criticism of him being a "bandwagon" guy is unfair. Yes, this was the first year that PSU did not win the NC in 5 years and he was absent from the boards for a long time. But he had some issues that prevented him from posting that were legitimate I believe and had nothing to do with PSU. I think he came back around January and has been going strong since.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

You mean he stopped posting because he was incarcerated.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Now that brucefan has clued me in on the ignore feature, I'm an authority on the subject. It's much more effective in this format than in the old one, but it takes some searching to find it. One great way to rid this board of Iowa-hating knuckleheads is for the majority of us to make use of that feature. As brucefan predicted, I'm quite sure that my IQ has increased a good bit and that my BP is down about 10 points. Happy to help my fellow Hawk fans figure it out if anyone's interested.

I've never used the ignore function on any forum. I just don't read posts that I don't wanna read.

Easier way to use ignore is click on poster's name you want to ignore. A pop with options comes up. Choose ignore.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Chief... I really am concerned with Tom Brands recruiting approach and think the type of kids and talent level coming in that he's pulling in aren't capable of winning National Titles. That's been apparent for five years. Penn State was in a non competitive year due to red shirting. Coaches choice along with wrestler input. On top of sitting Nico and Zain... they sat Jason Nolf who beat Chance Marstellar over the wkend, gave James Green all he could handle and beat Brian Realbuto of Cornell at 157.

Penn State or it's wrestlers weren't afraid of Hunter Steiber or Jesse Delgado. Both had been beat by Penn State wrestlers. Please. Delgado pinned by Nico, prior.

The difference is I knew going in that Penn State was only a top ten team. Iowa fans after the Big Tens were predicting a National Team title. No way with NO clear champion and an under performing cast other than Cory Clark.

I'm hoping for and reasonably expect nothing less than another National Title for Penn State this coming year. Where do you see Iowa placing? Realistically?

Cael hedged his bets on a great run, loaded team in 2016. It looks preliminarily, like he made a no brainer, spot on call.

Amalone - a little advice from a fellow Penn State fan. How about not regaling another fan base with the greatness of your favorite team - it only rankles and annoys - especially, and perhaps more, if it is done in a passive-aggressive manner.

When you do this you sound exactly like the flood of mouth-breathing, Coors Light drinking Ohio State football fans who flood our boards about how they are the "bestest" team in all the land. It gets old especially if your own team practically owned the sport for decades as Iowa owned wrestling.

Just some friendly advice. Act like you've been there.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Iowa fans after the Big Tens were predicting a National Team title.

After a tie at B1Gs there is not a single Hawk wrestling fan I personally know that was predicting a national team title.

 

[Azchief32]

Haven't seen the match, but did he toy with Nolf? Sounds like Nolf's near total inexperience with freestyle (and a few long challenges taking away Nolf's conditioning advantage) had a lot to do with the outcome.

I don't see Lee, for example, not murdering a freestyle neophyte - hell, he techs guys like Daton Fix.

Chickenman...Nolf's inexperience didn't seem to hurt him against Chance. Watch the match...Nolf had Hall dead to rights with a single leg and somehow Hall was able to snatch Nolf's ankle and come behind for a takedown. Quite frankly, I was shocked at how easy it seemed to Hall because I have a fair amount of respect for Nolf. The Flo guys remarked that Hall didn't seem to be on top of his game and was wrestling too controlled.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Chickenman...Nolf's inexperience didn't seem to hurt him against Chance. Watch the match...Nolf had Hall dead to rights with a single leg and somehow Hall was able to snatch Nolf's ankle and come behind for a takedown. Quite frankly, I was shocked at how easy it seemed to Hall because I have a fair amount of respect for Nolf. The Flo guys remarked that Hall didn't seem to be on top of his game and was wrestling too controlled.

Thanks. I'll probably have to wait until Flo allows the video to be shown to the unwashed masses who don't have a subscription (or it gets posted to YouTube). Hall's interview after the match was quite illuminating and it'll be interesting to see adjustments both kids make if they meet in free soon. I did see Nolf's match with Chavez and that really exemplified the differences in the 2 wrestling disciplines. Nolf would have killed Chavez in folk - it would look like a takedown drill, but he almost got teched due to one move.

How did their sizes look? Nolf has been growing, but he still looks slighter than most guys - maybe that's just his build. Everyone says he's freaky strong, but the comparison in build between him and Chavez was stark. Nolf's dad is a big dude so he won't be at 157 for long.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I've never used the ignore function on any forum. I just don't read posts that I don't wanna read.

Easier way to use ignore is click on poster's name you want to ignore. A pop with options comes up. Choose ignore.

Whatever trips your trigger. I prefer a cleaner thread where I don't have to sift through the garbage. And thanks for the tip -- much easier than going through multiple drop-downs.

 

[overeasy]

Could turn into the next Dziewa/ Kelly or Ethan Lofthouse/ Mike Evans pairing. You just never know.

You should do your research or any for that matter. John Huhges won a NC at 142 in 1995 at Carver Hawkeye Arena shutting out his opponent 7-0 in the finals. John was a three time AA at Penn State. Russ was an AA also at Penn State.

I would advise you not to challenge me on the research thing. I'm a wonk.

I'm well aware of the Hughes' records. I was in Iowa City in '95. And I was in Chapel Hill in '94 and in Minneapolis in '96. Watched both Hughes brothers a LOT. John was a 3-time AA, finishing 7, 1, 2. Both he and Russ were good wrestlers. Boring, but very good. Strong kids. John went 16-4 in four NCAA appearances. Scored two bonus points. Got a fall in a pigtail match in '95. Russ went 9-4 in three NCAA appearances. 1 bonus point. The other 8 victories were regular decisions. Again, good, strong wrestlers. But fell short of what was probably unrealistic expectations. That's life.

However, I used them for comparisons to Hall and Lee because of expectations coming in as high schoolers. The Hughes boys, as were the Altons, were monster recruits. The only Iowa wrestler you mentioned in your retort who came in with similar expectations was Evans. Dziewa, Kelly and Lofthouse were certainly well regarded, but none were thought of as blue-chips like the Altons or the Hughes boys.

Anything else you'd like me to find out for you?

 

[Azchief32]

Thanks. I'll probably have to wait until Flo allows the video to be shown to the unwashed masses who don't have a subscription (or it gets posted to YouTube). Hall's interview after the match was quite illuminating and it'll be interesting to see adjustments both kids make if they meet in free soon. I did see Nolf's match with Chavez and that really exemplified the differences in the 2 wrestling disciplines. Nolf would have killed Chavez in folk - it would look like a takedown drill, but he almost got teched due to one move.

How did their sizes look? Nolf has been growing, but he still looks slighter than most guys - maybe that's just his build. Everyone says he's freaky strong, but the comparison in build between him and Chavez was stark. Nolf's dad is a big dude so he won't be at 157 for long.

I thought Nolf is longer and for the most part, more aggressive. Hall seemed to try and stay out of Nolf's ties at first than did a sweet double under and sweeped Nolf straight to his back. The officiating was horrible.

I get the difference in free/folk...it hurts guys like Nolf and Zain not being able to ride but TDs are pretty much universal...Hall would have had 5 points on his Double Under straight to the back in folk. His technique and mat awareness are scary good.

 

[MitchL]

I know amalone rankles quite a few of you here, but it makes for an interesting read.

One thing I would like to point out is that the criticism of him being a "bandwagon" guy is unfair. Yes, this was the first year that PSU did not win the NC in 5 years and he was absent from the boards for a long time. But he had some issues that prevented him from posting that were legitimate I believe and had nothing to do with PSU. I think he came back around January and has been going strong since.

Just wonderful... Amaloon's brother comes on as an apologist. I'm assuming these "issues" you refer to were mental. That would certainly explain his presence and his annoying habits. Either way, he needs a solid prescription for humility and common sense.

 

[dicemen99]

I thought Nolf is longer and for the most part, more aggressive. Hall seemed to try and stay out of Nolf's ties at first than did a sweet double under and sweeped Nolf straight to his back. The officiating was horrible.

I get the difference in free/folk...it hurts guys like Nolf and Zain not being able to ride but TDs are pretty much universal...Hall would have had 5 points on his Double Under straight to the back in folk. His technique and mat awareness are scary good.

Rewatch the match. His double under did result in a TD, but Nolf bailed fairly easily into a base postion. Hall then transitioned into a nice gut and got an exposure.

I know this is going to come off as a PSU homer comment, but I disagree with your assessment in the other post above. Not going to comment about the Chance match, because what I say will be taken as a slight to Chance which I don't feel like posting.

Hall has excellent defense and athletic ability as evidenced in the sequence you referenced above on the ankle pick when Nolf had his leg shelfed. But Nolf was able to secure 4 TDs in the match and finished better as the match went along. Hall got 6 exposure points on guts and Nolf needs to improve his par terre defense considerably against guys with high levels of freestyle experience like Hall and Chavez.

I wouldn't pick against Hall in a rematch next month (if it comes to pass, there could be a Valencia and others entered who will have something to say about it), but I don't think Hall is underestimating the danger Nolf poses as evidenced from his post match interview.

 

[dicemen99]

Just wonderful... Amaloon's brother comes on as an apologist. I'm assuming these "issues" you refer to were mental. That would certainly explain his presence and his annoying habits. Either way, he needs a solid prescription for humility and common sense.

LOL, I'd hardly call my quote an apology. Amalone can certainly rile some people up - even me - and I was trying to correct a couple of posts above.

 

[Azchief32]

Dice...you are correct...Hall double undered Joe Smith straight to his back, not Nolf. I watched both in succession. As for Chance, he has extensive freestyle experience and probably would have won worlds had it not been for his injury. A few on your board predicted a Chance win because of his FS background which I think was an attempt at lowered expectations...an out just in case Nolf lost. However, he's a stud and can pretty much hang with anybody. I just think, barring injury, Hall is going to be better. Hell, he's not even in a college room yet.

 

[dicemen99]

Dice...you are correct...Hall double undered Joe Smith straight to his back, not Nolf. I watched both in succession. As for Chance, he has extensive freestyle experience and probably would have won worlds had it not been for his injury. A few on your board predicted a Chance win because of his FS background which I think was an attempt at lowered expectations...an out just in case Nolf lost. However, he's a stud and can pretty much hang with anybody. I just think, barring injury, Hall is going to be better. Hell, he's not even in a college room yet.

I was one that predicted Chance would win - precisely because of his extensive FS experience. Had never seen Nolf wrestle freestyle and was concerned about exposures especially from Chance. If you watch Marstellar's match against Hammond, you'll see Chance rack up 6 points in about 10 seconds with Hammond deep in on his legs. And he could have had more if it didn't complete the tech. And that from a position Hammond most likely wins in folk.

I am super high on Nolf, but I would not have predicted him to make the finals at this weight in his first freestyle tournament.

I don't necessarily agree that Hall will be better in college. He may, but the jury is still out on that on both of them. Just to put the FS/Folk transition in a little perspective, we've seen Bo Nickal tune up Hall twice in freestyle and I don't think anyone - including me - is predicting 4x NC's out of him. Hall's body of work against top NCAA D1 guys in folk is pretty much nonexistent and Nolf's isn't much better when you consider that Realbuto wasn't 100% in their match. Not that they have had the opportunity, yet...

 

[Needanap]

Chickenman...Nolf's inexperience didn't seem to hurt him against Chance. Watch the match...Nolf had Hall dead to rights with a single leg and somehow Hall was able to snatch Nolf's ankle and come behind for a takedown. Quite frankly, I was shocked at how easy it seemed to Hall because I have a fair amount of respect for Nolf. The Flo guys remarked that Hall didn't seem to be on top of his game and was wrestling too controlled.

Chickenman-- When you get the chance to see the Nolf v Hall match you will come away very pleased with Nolf's performance. Hall is an incredible talent and deserves all of the praise he has received. Hall took advantage of Nolf's lack of experience in freestyle and that was the difference in the match. Nolf was relentless in his attacks and was seemingly able to get in on Hall's legs at will. In addition to the TD's Nolf scored, there were several other shots that may have resulted in TD's in a folkstyle match but were stalemated by the ref.

As mentioned earlier, the officiating was horrible. The match took over 17 minutes to complete due to numerous challenges and scoring screw-ups. In the Hall interview he acknowledges that Nolf's coaches (Cael) may have won the battle (2 successful challenges) but lost the match because the delays allowed Hall to recover from Nolf's pace. I have been impressed with Hall's wrestling talents for many years but perhaps came away from his post match interview even more impressed with his humility and composure.

After you get a chance to watch the match go back and watch the Hall post match interview. Hall acknowledges Nolf's lack of Freestyle experience, repeatedly criticized his own inability to put the match away, acknowledged Nolf's ability to repeatedly score against him and finally acknowledged that Nolf had him on the ropes several times. Hall actually states in the interview that during the challenges that he could see Nolf's desire to keep the match going.

I've watched Nolf since he was in Middle school. Most people who watch him for the first time come away impressed with his ability to score from his feet. IMO, his defense and scrambling abilities are equally impressive. Unfortunately in Freestyle these strengths often become weaknesses.

It will be interesting to see where Hall decides to wrestle in college.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I thought Nolf looked much better on his feet, and was simply "out freestyled". Once he took Hall down you could tell that he had no idea what to do in par terre. The fact that Hall hasn't stepped on campus yet is a bit overblown, IMO. He is frequently training with senior level guys and has as much top end exposure as Nolf. Additionally, I believe there is only a year difference in age between the two, so it isn't a man wrestling a boy. Mark Hall is an absolute stud, but I came away thinking I would favor Nolf in a folkstyle match if they wrestled it today. Nolf looked every bit as big as Hall, so I'll be interested to see if he has trouble making 157.