ADVERTISEMENT

US Will Allow Ukraine to Strike Deep Inside Russia (with a caveat)

Do you approve of letting Ukraine hit deep inside Russia?


  • Total voters
    72
And how often have they used those ICBM's?

Tested one last April.

MOSCOW, April 12 (Reuters) - Russia's Defence Ministry said on Friday it had conducted a successful test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile at the Kapustin Yar rocket launch complex in the southern Astrakhan region.

Seems incredibly dangerous to engage in the wishful thinking that these things won’t work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_82
Ummm right! You win!

WW3 for 200!

So, you found the edit button. Nice.

What is hysterically funny is how many of you experts have ever spent much time in the Russian/Ukrainian cultures and YET you are experts.
Not an expert, but I’ve had many conversations with Ukrainians. Have you?
 
Not an expert, but I’ve had many conversations with Ukrainians. Have you?
Ive traveled their extensively and have daily conversations. Been on several air bases. Taken groups from work there. Been on site during Maidan demonstrations. Taughtvat several universities. Ag related. Dealt with mafia.
 
The argument seems to be that Putin is bluffing and we should call his bluff.

In fact that's exactly what Seth Jones, Director of the International Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington just said on BBC News.

What happens if he isn't bluffing?

Does Putin strike us as the kind of guy who would accept defeat while he has nukes sitting on the shelf?
An intelligent response from someone on the left. I am shocked.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Tom Paris
Tested one last April.

MOSCOW, April 12 (Reuters) - Russia's Defence Ministry said on Friday it had conducted a successful test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile at the Kapustin Yar rocket launch complex in the southern Astrakhan region.

Seems incredibly dangerous to engage in the wishful thinking that these things won’t work.

I was pointing out you're faulty logic of comparing those two things
 
  • Like
Reactions: noleclone2
Multiple persona. Nice
200w.gif
 
I was pointing out you're faulty logic of comparing those two things
Was the superpower stalemate of the 20th century was really just ‘faulty logic’?

What exactly is your logic regarding nukes?

The Russians were never going to use nukes, or if they wanted to they wouldn’t work?
 
I was pointing out you're faulty logic of comparing those two things
Also the trillions of dollars spent by US on maintenance of its arsenal is something no way Russia has done with their small GDP and exposed corruption from stealing of funds by corrupt government/ military officials. The most recent budget for Nuclear R&D and maintenance is 69 billion (really). That is close to all of the Russia defense budget….

Lot different a thing than launching rockets to space few times a year.

They have not been keeping up with the west on military spending and tech for over 40 years now, as exposed in Ukraine. This is not to suggest they have no working bombs and missiles or that they could not for sure kill millions. But more that I think they know they will be destroyed with no question while they likely can’t do the same. But not sure what you can do about it at this point if Putin does the unthinkable, it is all on them.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fsu1jreed
Was the superpower stalemate of the 20th century was really just ‘faulty logic’?

What exactly is your logic regarding nukes?

The Russians were never going to use nukes, or if they wanted to they wouldn’t work?

No, but they've had plenty of practice, and plenty of deaths, perfecting the soruz rockets...not so much the ICBM'S, so people's comparisons them to how shitty the rest of Russia's military is valid
 
  • Like
Reactions: noleclone2
Also the trillions of dollars spent by US on maintenance of its arsenal is something no way Russia has done with their small GDP and exposed corruption from stealing of funds by corrupt government/ military officials. The most recent budget for Nuclear R&D and maintenance is 69 billion (really). That is close to all of the Russia defense budget….

Lot different a thing than launching rockets to space few times a year.

They have not been keeping up with the west on military spending and tech for over 40 years now, as exposed in Ukraine. This is not to suggest they have no working bombs and missiles or that they could not for sure kill millions. But more that I think they know they will be destroyed with no question while they likely can’t do the same. But not sure what you can do about it at this point if Putin does the unthinkable, it is all on them.
One version of why the USSR collapsed is that we challenged them to an arms race, they fell for it, but lacked our economic advantages and bankrupted themselves trying to keep up.
 
Longer war = More $$$$ for D.C.

Shorter war = Less $$$$ for D.C.
I was going to give that a "like" until I realized that I wasn't sure what you meant by DC.

Huge benefit for the MIC and Big Oil, for sure. Huge benefit for lobbyists and bought-and-paid-for politicians, for sure. Is that what you meant, or is this just some generic big-government-power-grab complaint?
 
Tested one last April.

MOSCOW, April 12 (Reuters) - Russia's Defence Ministry said on Friday it had conducted a successful test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile at the Kapustin Yar rocket launch complex in the southern Astrakhan region.

Seems incredibly dangerous to engage in the wishful thinking that these things won’t work.
Russia can pull out whenever it wants.
 
And who is providing the logistics? Do you know that answer for certain? And are other US supplied weapons providing security?
Of course they are helping in providing security. What's your angle? Do you want Russia to just take Ukrainian land and perhaps, Poland, Georgia next? Putin needs to be stopped. Why anyone thinks differently, I will never understand.
 
Looks like the left is going to get the war with Russia they so desperately want.
You know this guy is a nut, right? He has a history of being an anti- semite.

--

Antisemitic incidents​

On 30 May 2023, Braun disrupted a lecture on the Holocaust by the historian Jan Grabowski at the German Historical Institute in Warsaw by invading the room and destroying the event's microphone and speakers. Braun has been quoted accusing Jews of being "the enemies of Poland" and alleging their desire to undertake a "hostile takeover" of Polish territory and to place ethnic Poles in reservations, an allegory for Indian reservations.[34][35][36] Braun has also claimed there exists a plan to turn Poland into a "Jewish state".[26]

On 12 December 2023, during the first session of the 10th term of Sejm, he put out a Hanukkah menorah by spraying it with a fire extinguisher, saying that "The people participating in the Satanic cult should be ashamed".[37][38] Security guards ordered the area to be evacuated because of the resultant white cloud of aerosol.[39] He was excluded from the ongoing session of the Sejm, and punished by withholding his deputy allowance for six months. The Speaker of the Sejm, Szymon Hołownia, announced that a criminal complaint will be filed with prosecutors.[39][40] Hołownia also sent an inquiry to a police commissioner to verify if Braun has a firearm permit, as he received information from the Marshal Guard that Braun asked in the past if he can deposit a personal firearm in Sejm.[41]

Braun's actions and statements have led to criticism from within his own party. Sławomir Mentzen, one of the leaders of the Confederation party, condemned Braun's actions, stating his intent to take further steps in addressing the situation.[34] Additionally, Cardinal Grzegorz Ryś, Archbishop of Łódź, said he was "ashamed and I apologise to the whole Jewish community in Poland" following the incident.[42] Braun has denied having racist motives and described his actions as a response to what he perceives as "Satanic, Talmudist triumphalism" of Jewish holidays.[34]

On 17 January 2024, the Sejm voted to lift Braun's immunity from criminal prosecution in relation to his attack on the Hanukkah menorah. Prosecutors previously said that they intended to charge him with seven counts also included earlier incidents of alleged aggression against a former health minister and public property. If convicted, he faces up to five years' imprisonment.[43]
 
Of course they are helping in providing security. What's your angle? Do you want Russia to just take Ukrainian land and perhaps, Poland, Georgia next? Putin needs to be stopped. Why anyone thinks differently, I will never understand.
It appears Putin has already been stopped. Been bogged down in the same place for 2 1/2 years now. It seems his reach has exceeded his grasp when it comes to conquering Europe.
 
Of course they are helping in providing security. What's your angle? Do you want Russia to just take Ukrainian land and perhaps, Poland, Georgia next? Putin needs to be stopped. Why anyone thinks differently, I will never understand.
You are smarter than that.

A lot of Bidenistas are obcessed with death. Said before I have a lot of experience in Ukraine. Was is not as advertized. Putin is bad, but not crazy
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Kelsers
No, but they've had plenty of practice, and plenty of deaths, perfecting the soruz rockets...not so much the ICBM'S, so people's comparisons them to how shitty the rest of Russia's military is valid

Missiles they’re actually pretty good at.
Ours are better, but theirs aren’t useless.


Data from Ukraine’s air force shows that all three Iskander ballistic missiles and four Kh-22 cruise missiles fired by Russian forces evaded attempts to bring them down.

Although air defenses have brought down Iskander missiles in the past, it is believed that Ukraine has failed to intercept a single KH-22 in two years of war.
 
“Easing the restrictions on Western weapons will not cause Moscow to escalate,” 17 former ambassadors and generals wrote in a letter to the administration this week. “We know this because Ukraine is already striking territory Russia considers its own — including Crimea and Kursk — with these weapons and Moscow’s response remains unchanged.”

I thought the issue was about using our weapons to strike deep into Russian territory. Kursk is near the border and Crimea is annexed Ukraine territory.
 
Is the US also going to be allowing Ukraine to use restricted military-grade GPS for navigation? If so, that could potentially blur the line separating us from being a direct belligerent.
 
What do you think? Do you thin putin would stop his march on Europe after he got Ukraine?

Please share.
The problem is that objectives change. Afghanistan is a good example. We accomplished all but 1 of our initial objectives, and then some, in less than a year. We stayed for 20.

I don't believe Putin has designs much beyond Ukraine, and I'd bet that Putin would be happy to stop where he is if he got the security guarantees he wants. But next year or the year after? Who knows?

It's an improbable hypothetical in any case - unless maybe Trump wins - because the US isn't going to let Russia take Ukraine. So what happens after Russia takes Ukraine is a null set - since they are never taking Ukraine.

All bets are off, of course, if this war goes nuclear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IIowaFarmBoy
The problem is that objectives change. Afghanistan is a good example. We accomplished all but 1 of our initial objectives, and then some, in less than a year. We stayed for 20.

I don't believe Putin has designs much beyond Ukraine, and I'd bet that Putin would be happy to stop where he is if he got the security guarantees he wants. But next year or the year after? Who knows?

It's an improbable hypothetical in any case - unless maybe Trump wins - because the US isn't going to let Russia take Ukraine. So what happens after Russia takes Ukraine is a null set - since they are never taking Ukraine.

All bets are off, of course, if this war goes nuclear.
A speculative word salad there.
 
A speculative word salad there.
I don't usually bother to respond to snark, but this is a pretty silly comment.

Of course my observation was "speculative." What gave me away? Could it have been when I said "believe" and "bet"?

As for "word salad" - that phrase actually has a meaning. You might want to look it up, because you're using it wrong.
 
I don't usually bother to respond to snark, but this is a pretty silly comment.

Of course my observation was "speculative." What gave me away? Could it have been when I said "believe" and "bet"?

As for "word salad" - that phrase actually has a meaning. You might want to look it up, because you're using it wrong.
How so?

I typically use it to mean someone said a lot without saying anything meaningful.

How do you use it?
 
How so?

I typically use it to mean someone said a lot without saying anything meaningful.

How do you use it?
My apology. I can see how that could become the colloquial definition, and maybe it has.

I first encountered the term "word salad" during my neuroscience grad school days a millennium ago. We have a couple of distinct speech areas of the brain including Broca's and Wernicke's areas. When these areas are damaged by injury or stroke, for example, they produce distinctly different speech deficits.

"Word salad" is the term often used to describe people with damage to Wernicke's area. It is characterized by an ease of speaking but a random-seeming mishmash of words, often lacking nouns. These people aren't dumb or nuts. They usually know what they are trying to say, but they are missing the part of the brain that knows how to string the words together properly.

(BTW, that was from memory; anyone who wants to explain it better, feel free.)
 
My apology. I can see how that could become the colloquial definition, and maybe it has.

I first encountered the term "word salad" during my neuroscience grad school days a millennium ago. We have a couple of distinct speech areas of the brain including Broca's and Wernicke's areas. When these areas are damaged by injury or stroke, for example, they produce distinctly different speech deficits.

"Word salad" is the term often used to describe people with damage to Wernicke's area. It is characterized by an ease of speaking but a random-seeming mishmash of words, often lacking nouns. These people aren't dumb or nuts. They usually know what they are trying to say, but they are missing the part of the brain that knows how to string the words together properly.

(BTW, that was from memory; anyone who wants to explain it better, feel free.)
Fair enough. And you're correct. I wasn't using this term in the clinical sense. In fact, most of the terms I use on this particular board aren't intended in a clinical or overly literal way. My apologies if you thought I was intentionally offending your Wernicke's area.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT