Vito

[TNTwrestle]

Just curious as I do not remember. What calls did Dake benefit from? I truly don’t remember.

Also, if he didn’t, you could say since he didn’t redshirt he is the only truly deserving 4 time champ.

There are a fair amount of people that say he was gifted several calls in the match with Montell Marion. I recently rewatched the match, and though there were some close calls, I can't say they were wrong, although I could see why people didn't like them. In his match with St. John he stalled a lot by pushing him out when he stood up but He earned the initial lead, so it wasn't questionable in my book.

 

[dtripp26]

I can't watch that again. It was too hard and heartbreaking live. Same with Metcalf/Caldwell. I did rewatch part of Spencer's match to see just exactly what happened. Live it looked like a chip-whip, and I couldn't believe he got caught in that no matter what his condition.

I haven't watched it for a long time. I have never watched Terry v Cross and I will never rewatch Lee semifinal, the first viewing was a slow motion train wreck.

As to my reason for posting it, what Steve M did was incredible. It's one thing to do what Vito did, that was incredible. Marianetti took Lincoln down 6 times in CHA, unthinkable!

For that reason it will always be considered an all-time performance.

 

[MSU158]

Just curious as I do not remember. What calls did Dake benefit from? I truly don’t remember.

Also, if he didn’t, you could say since he didn’t redshirt he is the only truly deserving 4 time champ.

Other than his freshman year, at NCAA's, there wasn't a match where he was remotely in doubt of winning and that even includes Taylor.


His freshman year against Humphrey which he won in OT is probably the closest to any form of controversy. Some like to say nearfall should have been awarded on the only takedown of the match. Humphrey took him down with a body lock, straight to his back, but Dake, to his credit, recovered very quickly. After that, Humphrey chose neutral and it went to OT(2-2) with Dake getting 2 escapes. No one scored in SV and Dake escaped during his choice and Humphrey did not. So Dake won 3-2.



I also know some here say there was controversy in the Finals match after for Marion. But, to me, it was simply Dake always being able to counter when he looked to almost certainly be scored upon. The first exchange is a perfect example. Marion started to double him to his back, but ended up more in a headlock position by the time they hit the mat, due to an underhook by Dake. So, as soon as they hit the mat Marion went to step over for control, Dake shifted and came out through Marion's legs and ended up getting the 2 himself. Inevitably he won 7-3 and I don't think there was really anything controversial about it.

 

[Grip220]

can I please answer question 6 for him!!!

I chose D- all of the above

 

[hoythawk]

so that's a no on vito ,must be yes on brooks, guess will have to make do.

Probably a good chance of getting Fix if Vito backs out. He looked like a change of scenery was needed.

 

[12tdsaw]

milkshakes all around

 

[naddabluechip]

In my opinion, there are two four timers who aren't four timers. Unfortunately, my opinion doesn't count for anything.

I’m guessing Stieber is on that list. Who is the other?

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

I’m guessing Stieber is on that list. Who is the other?

I thought Murin should have gotten two swipes but it was close.

 

[Tcalumet]

I thought Murin should have gotten two swipes but it was close.

I was there and adamant that he got 2 swipes. Furious even. They i rewatched the video multiple times. Back wasn’t close enough to the mat - not by a long shot.

 

[Tcalumet]

i don't understand the Bouzakis thing at all. the plan was always for Mendez to start, Bouzakis to RS and then vice versa.

and now Vito?

there's always some wild stuff on this board but sheesh.

Not what I heard. Def was up in the air with who was going then an issue arose first semester. Very confident in source. Not saying he doesn’t wrestle there but there are def challenges to overcome.

 

[smalls103]

well, perhaps something did happen. but they told me the plan as far back as U23 trials. so idk.

when they (Mendez & Bouzakis) both committed there everyone on earth asked them 'how they gonna make this work?'

the plan, to my knowledge is now for Mendez to RS and Bouzakis to start. That being said, there's a discussion if Sasso is going up. which would bump most of the lineup (D'Emilio, Paddy, Kharchla). So maybe one of them would just go 141 anyway.

there's a number of contentious situations. when i get a chance to focus catch my breath i'm gonna dig in to all the roster battles and 'hole's' that power teams need to address.

for instance, Cooper Flynn at Tech looks like he's in a bad spot right now with Ventresca balling out at NCAA's.

Missouri needs a 157. Nebraska needs a 174. PSU a 184. etc. etc.

 

[Tcalumet]

well, perhaps something did happen. but they told me the plan as far back as U23 trials. so idk.

when they (Mendez & Bouzakis) both committed there everyone on earth asked them 'how they gonna make this work?'

the plan, to my knowledge is now for Mendez to RS and Bouzakis to start. That being said, there's a discussion if Sasso is going up. which would bump most of the lineup (D'Emilio, Paddy, Kharchla). So maybe one of them would just go 141 anyway.

there's a number of contentious situations. when i get a chance to focus catch my breath i'm gonna dig in to all the roster battles and 'hole's' that power teams need to address.

for instance, Cooper Flynn at Tech looks like he's in a bad spot right now with Ventresca balling out at NCAA's.

Missouri needs a 157. Nebraska needs a 174. PSU a 184. etc. etc.

Yep - doubt Jessie see’s 133 for another college season. A redshirt would be good.

This may be the best portal season yet.

 

[bman546]

That's been explained a bunch at this point. He wasn't enrolled for 2020-2021, so it doesn't count towards his clock.

Jumping in late, but doesn't the NCAA clock start (and continue) once you enroll? Meaning, if you aren't enrolled in classes one year, the NCAA clock keeps ticking. Otherwise, wrestlers could essentially get additional "redshirt" years by not enrolling one year. Vito was eligible for Olympic Redhsirt, and when you take those the NCAA clock does indeed stop. Unless you meant his not being enrolled was specifically because of it being an Olympic year (Olympics were 2021). During an Olympic redshirt you can basically disappear and take zero classes b/c the NCAA clock has stopped. however, to maintain access to college team perks, stay on official roster, access to trainers, athletic department funded Dr. visits etc. you have to take 6 credit hours. but, the NCAA clock still stops.

This board was started as an appreciation thread to Vito's season and incredible NCAA performance. It went into a rabbit hole of a pissing contest on legit 4x NCAA champs vs those that benefited from calls etc... Just stick to the thread title please... everything seems to turn into an argument or a Troll fest. With that said, back to our original programming:

Vito just put everyone on notice at 57kg and/or 61 kg this year. Starting after the 2023 Worlds, there is a US National in December (instead of the traditional US Open in April ) because of the Olympic year/schedule. That tournament will only have the olympic weights so he will most certainly go down to 57kg instead of going up to 65kg. But it will be interesting to see if he competes this spring at 61 or 57. I know Gilman handled him fairly easily at Final X in Stillwater, but Vito just made me sit up a little straighter in my chair as he dismantled RBY.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Jumping in late, but doesn't the NCAA clock start (and continue) once you enroll? Meaning, if you aren't enrolled in classes one year, the NCAA clock keeps ticking. Otherwise, wrestlers could essentially get additional "redshirt" years by not enrolling one year. Vito was eligible for Olympic Redhsirt, and when you take those the NCAA clock does indeed stop. Unless you meant his not being enrolled was specifically because of it being an Olympic year (Olympics were 2021). During an Olympic redshirt you can basically disappear and take zero classes b/c the NCAA clock has stopped. however, to maintain access to college team perks, stay on official roster, access to trainers, athletic department funded Dr. visits etc. you have to take 6 credit hours. but, the NCAA clock still stops.

This board was started as an appreciation thread to Vito's season and incredible NCAA performance. It went into a rabbit hole of a pissing contest on legit 4x NCAA champs vs those that benefited from calls etc... Just stick to the thread title please... everything seems to turn into an argument or a Troll fest. With that said, back to our original programming:

Vito just put everyone on notice at 57kg and/or 61 kg this year. Starting after the 2023 Worlds, there is a US National in December (instead of the traditional US Open in April ) because of the Olympic year/schedule. That tournament will only have the olympic weights so he will most certainly go down to 57kg instead of going up to 65kg. But it will be interesting to see if he competes this spring at 61 or 57. I know Gilman handled him fairly easily at Final X in Stillwater, but Vito just made me sit up a little straighter in my chair as he dismantled RBY.

(the below, obviously, is to the best of my understanding!)

There are two types of eligibility here, confounded by the COVID changes. Ivy League eligibility says that if you are enrolled in school, your clock is ticking. Period. NCAA rules say that your clock doesn't tick if you are enrolled but not officially competing (red shirt). Both say that your eligibility starts when you first enroll in college, and I believe you have a year after HS graduation to matriculate to college. Cornell (and increasingly the other Ivy League schools) have the "grey shirt" in which a student defers matriculation for a year and trains with the associated RTC; sometimes the student has *not* yet been admitted and takes classes nearby to improve their chances. The latter case apparently is also to keep up the statistics of admitted freshmen, since a deferred admission can count as a "transfer," or something like that.

Both NCAA and the Ivy League had the "four out of five" rule, by which a student has five years to use up four years of eligibility. So a red shirt allowed a non-Ivy student to stay in school and not lose eligibility. An Olympic red shirt for an Ivy student means the student was not enrolled.

Because of COVID, the NCAA and the Ivy League changed that rule to "four out of six," thereby allowing an extra year of eligibility for those who lost a championship year (or in the case of the Ivy League, a whole f***ing year of competition). I believe but am not certain that an ORS does not count towards that "six": if it did, then nobody would be able to take more than a red shirt year and one ORS and still have eligibility.

Vito: HS senior, grey shirt, Cornell freshman (year 1), Cornell sophomore (2), ORS (3), COVID year (4), Cornell junior (5). It is also not clear to me that the Ivy League would allow Vito to take an ORS (6) *and* a Cornell senior (7!) year. That would also put him at age 25 or 26 that last year. It is possible that the Ivy League would grant him a leave of absence (which is what an ORS in the Ivy League actually is). In fact, since the Ivy League doesn't allow grad students to compete, guys have been known to sit out the fall semester so as to not graduate before their NCAA eligibility is used up.

Crazy stuff, made more complicated by the Byzantine Ivy rules and that COVID thing.

 

[IAChief32]

(the below, obviously, is to the best of my understanding!)

There are two types of eligibility here, confounded by the COVID changes. Ivy League eligibility says that if you are enrolled in school, your clock is ticking. Period. NCAA rules say that your clock doesn't tick if you are enrolled but not officially competing (red shirt). Both say that your eligibility starts when you first enroll in college, and I believe you have a year after HS graduation to matriculate to college. Cornell (and increasingly the other Ivy League schools) have the "grey shirt" in which a student defers matriculation for a year and trains with the associated RTC; sometimes the student has *not* yet been admitted and takes classes nearby to improve their chances. The latter case apparently is also to keep up the statistics of admitted freshmen, since a deferred admission can count as a "transfer," or something like that.

Both NCAA and the Ivy League had the "four out of five" rule, by which a student has five years to use up four years of eligibility. So a red shirt allowed a non-Ivy student to stay in school and not lose eligibility. An Olympic red shirt for an Ivy student means the student was not enrolled.

Because of COVID, the NCAA and the Ivy League changed that rule to "four out of six," thereby allowing an extra year of eligibility for those who lost a championship year (or in the case of the Ivy League, a whole f***ing year of competition). I believe but am not certain that an ORS does not count towards that "six": if it did, then nobody would be able to take more than a red shirt year and one ORS and still have eligibility.

Vito: HS senior, grey shirt, Cornell freshman (year 1), Cornell sophomore (2), ORS (3), COVID year (4), Cornell junior (5). It is also not clear to me that the Ivy League would allow Vito to take an ORS (6) *and* a Cornell senior (7!) year. That would also put him at age 25 or 26 that last year. It is possible that the Ivy League would grant him a leave of absence (which is what an ORS in the Ivy League actually is). In fact, since the Ivy League doesn't allow grad students to compete, guys have been known to sit out the fall semester so as to not graduate before their NCAA eligibility is used up.

Crazy stuff, made more complicated by the Byzantine Ivy rules and that COVID thing.

I knew that the Ivies don’t allow grad students but didn’t know where Vito was at in his process. Thanks for clearing it up as well as it can be. He looked great at NCAAs.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

I knew that the Ivies don’t allow grad students but didn’t know where Vito was at in his process. Thanks for clearing it up as well as it can be. He looked great at NCAAs.

You know what is more confusing? The status of those guys who *didn't* take an ORS! We have no idea what is the academic status of Foca/Ramirez/Cardenas/Fernandes. They've each wrestled two competitive seasons (and Fernandes really only one as he was injured in the first semester this year), but they are listed as juniors. I suspect that they'll have to each take off a semester in order to a) not graduate and b) get their four years of eligibility. Ramirez is listed as a sophomore, so I suspect he already took a semester off. Loew is listed as a senior, but he's going to be back next year, so he'll have to take off the first semester.

Clear as mud!

 

[smalls103]

(the below, obviously, is to the best of my understanding!)

There are two types of eligibility here, confounded by the COVID changes. Ivy League eligibility says that if you are enrolled in school, your clock is ticking. Period. NCAA rules say that your clock doesn't tick if you are enrolled but not officially competing (red shirt). Both say that your eligibility starts when you first enroll in college, and I believe you have a year after HS graduation to matriculate to college. Cornell (and increasingly the other Ivy League schools) have the "grey shirt" in which a student defers matriculation for a year and trains with the associated RTC; sometimes the student has *not* yet been admitted and takes classes nearby to improve their chances. The latter case apparently is also to keep up the statistics of admitted freshmen, since a deferred admission can count as a "transfer," or something like that.

Both NCAA and the Ivy League had the "four out of five" rule, by which a student has five years to use up four years of eligibility. So a red shirt allowed a non-Ivy student to stay in school and not lose eligibility. An Olympic red shirt for an Ivy student means the student was not enrolled.

Because of COVID, the NCAA and the Ivy League changed that rule to "four out of six," thereby allowing an extra year of eligibility for those who lost a championship year (or in the case of the Ivy League, a whole f***ing year of competition). I believe but am not certain that an ORS does not count towards that "six": if it did, then nobody would be able to take more than a red shirt year and one ORS and still have eligibility.

Vito: HS senior, grey shirt, Cornell freshman (year 1), Cornell sophomore (2), ORS (3), COVID year (4), Cornell junior (5). It is also not clear to me that the Ivy League would allow Vito to take an ORS (6) *and* a Cornell senior (7!) year. That would also put him at age 25 or 26 that last year. It is possible that the Ivy League would grant him a leave of absence (which is what an ORS in the Ivy League actually is). In fact, since the Ivy League doesn't allow grad students to compete, guys have been known to sit out the fall semester so as to not graduate before their NCAA eligibility is used up.

Crazy stuff, made more complicated by the Byzantine Ivy rules and that COVID thing.

At NCAA's the cornell staff told me 'he could take an olympic year'.

not sure if that's 100% the case (or how deeply they've already looked in to it just yet). just passing along the convo.

 

[moug]

I assume Fix could also take another ORS as well and come back in 24-25 to be an 8th year senior.

 

[blcoach80]

I assume Fix could also take another ORS as well and come back in 24-25 to be an 8th year senior.

and then get hurt, take a medical redshirt in 24/25 and come back for the 25/26 season as a 9th year senior