I am just curious.......last year, I thought Wagner was one of Iowa's most athletic and seemed to be a pretty smart player overall. He was one I thought would for sure be a starter. What's his status? Does it look like he will be a major contributor this year?
Wagner Question
- Thread starter dbleagle1
- Start date
I think at this point, he's essentially a poor man's Tyler Cook. As mentioned in another thread, it kind of depends on how well along Kriener is. If he can be a defensive post presence/crash the boards, then we'll need him starting at the 5, simply because Iowa is currently at a disadvantage when defensive rebounding.
However, I expect Ahmad to be a major contributor regardless of whether or not he starts. He'll relieve both Cook and Kriener (if he starts) and probably challenge for starter minutes depending on how many Pemsl gets off the bench. If he can continue to develop an outside game, he'll be deadly, because he's super quick at getting to the rim.
However, I expect Ahmad to be a major contributor regardless of whether or not he starts. He'll relieve both Cook and Kriener (if he starts) and probably challenge for starter minutes depending on how many Pemsl gets off the bench. If he can continue to develop an outside game, he'll be deadly, because he's super quick at getting to the rim.
It is just too early to make conclusions. Wagner is a talented player who works hard. Let's see what the next month brings and we'll have a better idea what his role becomes.
At this point, I would say only Jok, Baer and Cook have cemented their spots in the rotation. Williams, I would say, is close. Everyone else, you can toss into a hat and hope that several of them make the best of their time on the floor when called upon. Of course, this expert knowledge is based on one exhibition game against an overmatched team who was missing their best player.
Entirely agree and one more quick thought.
Williams is close because both he and Bohannon will see plenty of time.
Jok, Baer, Cook, and Williams are rock solid IMHO. The 5th guy is the issue. It has to be someone who is not a liability on defense and who will complement the other players on the offensive end. Will it be Uhl? Wagner? Kreiner er? Or maybe a guard?
I thought Wagner played better than Uhl last night and regardless if starts he will be a major contributor this year.
On paper Uhl is the more complete offensive player but Wagner is a better defender and rebounder.
At the beginning of the game when Iowa was struggling a little bit Wagner made a solid move right to the rim and finished. He was one of the first Hawkeyes to assert himself physically over an inferior opponent and it shows he has some dog in him.
On paper Uhl is the more complete offensive player but Wagner is a better defender and rebounder.
At the beginning of the game when Iowa was struggling a little bit Wagner made a solid move right to the rim and finished. He was one of the first Hawkeyes to assert himself physically over an inferior opponent and it shows he has some dog in him.
Agreed. Wagner knows how to play and has a B1G body. He may never be a double-figure per game scorer, but nothing to prevent him from being a solid player. Baer, Jok and Cook will play as much as their stamina and foul trouble allows them in the games against good opponents. Beyond that will depend on who is playing well. Williams made a good first impression, and Bohanon did too. Let the season play out. There will be games where this team looks good, and other games where we will be wondering what's going on. So many guys who haven't played major roles previously, they need time on the floor (including time where they don't play very well) to get better.
Thanks everyone.......at this point, starting 5 not being set in stone is probably a good problem.......It looks like they have quite a few players who are capable of starting and this is probably Fran's most athletic team overall he has had.......How many wins that will equate to?.......we shall see. 
Love me some Wagner. He has some of that Darryl "Turning Point" Moore and "Hot" Rod Thompson in him.
It will be interesting to see how the playing time works out for Pemsl and Kreiner. I do think they play quite a bit this year, If Kreiner can get healthy and stay on the court. With Garza and Nunge coming next year, there's no reason to hold any of the bigs back a year.
I don't think this will happen this year. Wagner just seems to get it. I think he will be one of the most improved this year.
He was a mini beast last year, as a freshman! So, i am hoping he becomes a major beast this season as a sophomore! Then, as a junior, a complete monster!
Wagner is a terrific athlete but he fits best at the 4 as does Cook and Cook wins this battle. If the team is best with Cook at the 5, maybe it's Wagner at the 4, Baer at the 3, Jok at the 2 and Williams at the point. I'd hoped Jones would be an option at the 4, but it sounds like he's got some more recovery ahead of him. Dom has the talent to be in this mix, but I'm not sure he's ready mentally to handle it. We'll learn a lot in the weeks to come and no doubt will change our views with each game. I expect constant inconsistence from us well into league play.
I love Wagner. I am probably in the minority here, but I actually think Wagner will be more consistent than Baer this year. I have not seen any games or practice from this year, so this is all based off last year.
they are both high energy guys who just get it. Baer is a step ahead in technique and 3 pt shooting but Wagner is way ahead in athleticism. when we play the tough teams I think quite a few teams will have an answer for Baer. let's be honest, Baer was an after thought for most teams last year during game preps. that will be different this year.
The only issue I have with Wagner is he is a natural 4, so if cook is as good as advertised and Wagner has to play out of position then he might struggle a bit more.
Thanks everyone.......at this point, starting 5 not being set in stone is probably a good problem.......It looks like they have quite a few players who are capable of starting and this is probably Fran's most athletic team overall he has had.......How many wins that will equate to?.......we shall see.
Since my vote matters so much to Fran & Co, I say we rotate players in at the final starting spot in the forward position. Uhl, Wags, Pemsl , Jones & Kriener. Starting next game, rotate that position for the next 5 games. See who shines under the lights and then let it ride.
Have Uhl start, then Wags first of the bench. Then Wags starts, with Pemsl off the bench. Etcetera. That essentially gives a warm up to the audition. Have Jones go last, hopefully he will be more comfortable with his knee and can play better DEFENSE. This will create great competition.
This will give us some idea of what everyone is capable of doing . And again , allows everyone a chance to shine equally (assuming the competition they face in the post is fair. The rotation may need to vary on who is starting for the opponents.
Once the top two are established, rotate those two to see comes out on top. If even, then rotate for the remainder of the season. Competition is good. Yet it gives everyone a chance
What do you think ? Fair way to handle the situation ?
It would be a departure from the way Fran usually handles things. And, some of those guys can play behind Baer and Cook as well.
I'd like to see, hazarding a complete and useless guess, a semi-solid lineup of seven guys emerge after the Battle of the Raptors on the 11th of Williams, Jok, Baer, Uhl, Cook, Bohannon and Wagner. I don't care who starts. I picked those seven as it represents experience plus two true freshmen. I haven't given up on anybody yet but recognize that all playing time is tentative.
I'd like to see the eighth, ninth spots halfway earned among the candidates Ellingson, Moss, Daily, Jones, Pemsl and Kriener. I don't care who, but we'll have had to have decided upon redshirts before the Owls game. Let's say that Daily has so much upside in the future that we want to save a year to enjoy it. I'm guessing Ellingson is the fourth guard due to experience and we'll see if Moss can progress enough to take that spot away.
I'm concerned Jones has so far to go to catch up in everything but rebounding and outside shooting that Kriener and Pemsl are actually ahead of him.
So, top nine, in order of pull it out of a hat minutes:
Williams 15, Bohannon 25
Jok 20, Williams 10, Ellingson 10
Baer 30, Jok 10
Uhl, 20, Wagner 20
Cook 30, Kriener 10
The three biggest battles I'd predict will be Wagner trying to bump Uhl out of the starting spot, Kriener and Pemsl in a dead heat for the eighth spot., and Moss and Ellingson for the minutes left because Jok will likely get +30..all he can handle. Same with Cook. Same with Baer. If Uhl struggles I could well see both Kriener and Pemsl passing him, but I believe Uhl can find his groove again.
So, if we can be that secure, know our guards, our relatively sort of top seven, by the time we play Kennesaw State than we'll have that game on the 13th to tweak things a little and hopefully get one last look at Moss, Jones, Daily if he doesn't redshirt.
We've got to have something of an order decided because on the 17th Seton Hall comes to town. That's our Debutante's Ball right there. Let's look real pretty for the Pirates.
And thankfully, our first five games are home games so we can get this all handled without road trips getting in the way.
Last thing, remember Fran likes to play the guys that are getting things done in a game. So there will be some times when a starter ends up with maybe fifteen minutes and a reserve twenty-five.
My concern is with Kreiner. I really think he can help us this year. But the clock is running for him to establish himself or be one of those on the outside this year. Between his illness this summer, and being banged up, he's behind. Fran's comment that his ankle will probably take longer is not encouraging. When he's been available, he looks to be one our top 3 frontcourt players. His ability to stretch the floor as a shooter, and rebound is a big plus. But, as you said, Fran will have to start slimming the rotation down so the guys who are playing can develop some chemistry, and confidence.
There's really not that much difference between the 4 & 5. Cook's going to draw teams' best post defender no matter who's playing the 4 or 5.
Yup I agree. I think his game will open up with another post presence with him. Cook is a legit post player with the ability to step back and hit the 15ft jump shot. That will pull his man away and allow Wagner a chance at put backs and also one on one match-ups. I think Wagner is still our most Athletic player on our roster. He plays good defense and will get plenty of minutes this year.
With Ahmad's speed to the hoop he can get by most anybody. The opponents better have a guy under the basket...which of course could leave Cook open. I'd love to see moments when both are about fifteen feet out and we've got three guys who can hit the three all outside the line. Cook might not have as much speed but who is going to get in front of him? I wouldn't.
Someone mentioned Kriener being a little behind due to illness and injury? Maybe good? Eleven days until Seton Hall and two games to get a solid look at Uhl, Wagner, Cook, Pemsl and it could just be that Kriener passes some guys as he comes back, but we'll know for sure with that much time to evaluate the others when Kriener does come back.
One last thing. As Wagner develops his shooting I still think he could work his way into a major role as a wing, down the road. With Garza and Nunge coming, what a weapon to be able to switch Nunge and Wagner defending the four depending on who the matchup is. Or a big lineup of Wagner, Cook and Garza? Ahhhh...that's next year stuff. And Baer won't be wanting to give up minutes at the three.
My guess is Wagner/Pemsl/Kreiner/Jones put Uhl on bench and Uhl ends up transferring. I liked Uhl's potential coming out of High School but he hasn't developed a dribble drive game and he has a funky low deliver 3pt shot and he's not interested in defense. Uhl did contribute last year when he was shooting the 3ball well, but it is a crapshoot whether he regains his 3pt shot...seems last year was more a case of getting hot instead of him being a really skilled shooter.
For Kreiner, those are legit reasons to be behind some of the others. Bobby Hansen did mention that Kreiner was the starting center during the practice that he watched last week. Also made mention of his rebounding (might have said best on team, but can't recall exactly). Hansen went on to say he thought Fran had been rotating the starting center at practice, so it is hard to say who all has been in the starting mix. Here's to hoping he has a speedy recovery and we get to see what he is made of, because I do agree if he is out a while it makes it hard to pass others.
Agreed and probably will draw double teams down low. That should leave a lot of offensive rebounds and easy put backs for the likes of Baer and Wagner.
Taking a topic from the Football thread, do you think we can get Bobby Hansen to sign on as Offensive Coordinator for the basketball team next year?
Heard what Hansen said. Heard similar things from other people since last summer. Not instead of Cook but with Cook and Baer pushing Uhl to bench.
There's about 165 minutes a game pretty wide open. It sounds like Cook is going to get at least 25 of those so let's say 140. The real players will fill that vacuum. Hope there's enough of those real players to fill the minutes.
There's about 165 minutes a game pretty wide open. It sounds like Cook is going to get at least 25 of those so let's say 140. The real players will fill that vacuum. Hope there's enough of those real players to fill the minutes.
Wagner will play a lot. Not sure if he will start just based on the fact that he is undersized for a true center. Love that he gets up and down the court well and is quick.
They are different players with different skill sets. It's all in how you are defining "more consistent." Baer can guard perimeter players, handle the ball a bit and shoot 3's. Wagner can do none of those things. Wagner can defend post players, block shots and rebound, as well as some other things. Comparing them isn't really fair. They both have roles to play and hopefully they do those roles well.
Wagner improved his ball handling and outside shooting this past off season. We will soon see to what degree.
