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Wait... (Tim Scott)

Capitalism in itself is the best system available. The question is why a job like cleaning apartments isn't valued at a rate where one can make a living at it. In the 50s and 60s, house cleaning personnel made living wages. At least they did in the lily white area where I lived.
 
WOW!

You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt how clueless you are.

The 90s in Russia were the post-communist Yeltsin era when vulture capitalists - many from the US and West - and Russian oligarchs were raping the country. And yet you somehow think that's an indictment of socialism.
You didn't see the buildings and infrastructure that the socialists built. You didn't talk with the citizens to hear what their lives were like before the wall came down. To try and pigeon hole my 90's time in Russia as just the result of post-communism, you are clueless.

Where are the examples of the wonderful life socialism produces? And please don't start with the usual "nortic countries example" in which many cases they are more capitalistic that the U.S. and are mostly well educated, white, Christian, native born populations, hardly comparable to America or anywhere else in the world for that matter. Not to mention the huge percentage of natural resources they have compared to their populations.

 
In an ad he's running, Tim Scott claims that his mother working 16 hours a day while raising him in poverty is proof that the American system is working. WTF? A flavor of capitalism (or any economic system) that allows people to be poor while working 16 hours a day is either (a) not functioning properly, or (b) designed to enrich a few at the expense of many others. I guess it's an accurate depiction of how our economy works, but if this philosophy wins elections, then this is just more evidence of how far we've gone through the looking glass.
Wait, proof that the system is working is 4 day weeks, work from home, paid time off?
 
Agreed. Capitalism is so cool you only have to work 16 hours a day to function under it and it's motto is, "No guarantees."
As opposed to socialism where you don’t have to work at all to achieve the same amount of economic freedom as those working 16 hour days.
 
I don’t understand why these arguments always turn into socialism vs capitalism like it’s an either-or thing.

Turns out you can have a mix of both….a lot of European countries do it. Heck we do too to some extent, just not as much as them.

I basically want some more guard rails and support nets put into our current system that’s all…I’m not saying no one should have to work, or the government should make all economic decisions…
Because that would require a modicum of thought and a nuanced perspective that most Americans are either incapable of or have been led to believe is traitorous to their ideological kin.
 
I don’t understand why these arguments always turn into socialism vs capitalism like it’s an either-or thing.

Turns out you can have a mix of both….a lot of European countries do it. Heck we do too to some extent, just not as much as them.

I basically want some more guard rails and support nets put into our current system that’s all…I’m not saying no one should have to work, or the government should make all economic decisions…
But “we” do it with GUNS!
 
There used to be. 😉.
Still is. Plenty of us who fit into that category. Plenty of us who grew up poor, took school seriously and went to college. Married a poor, lived lower middle class until we could afford better. We struggled for the first 15-20 years. Now, we are upper middle, closer to the 1% than ever before. The American dream is real and achievable. Some have and advantage over others. Some have advantages given to them. Some use those advantages to better themselves. Others don’t.
 
I don’t understand why these arguments always turn into socialism vs capitalism like it’s an either-or thing.

Turns out you can have a mix of both….a lot of European countries do it. Heck we do too to some extent, just not as much as them.

I basically want some more guard rails and support nets put into our current system that’s all…I’m not saying no one should have to work, or the government should make all economic decisions…
I would be willing to bet, that most of the people bringing up these socialism vs. capitalism arguments, are themselves benefitting from the mix that is America.
 
Capitalism in itself is the best system available. The question is why a job like cleaning apartments isn't valued at a rate where one can make a living at it. In the 50s and 60s, house cleaning personnel made living wages. At least they did in the lily white area where I lived.
Capitalism most definitely not the best system. Capitalism without heavy oversight is a nightmare for most.
 
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In an ad he's running, Tim Scott claims that his mother working 16 hours a day while raising him in poverty is proof that the American system is working. WTF? A flavor of capitalism (or any economic system) that allows people to be poor while working 16 hours a day is either (a) not functioning properly, or (b) designed to enrich a few at the expense of many others. I guess it's an accurate depiction of how our economy works, but if this philosophy wins elections, then this is just more evidence of how far we've gone through the looking glass.
What a warped perspective. What other country in the world could produce a story like Tim Scott's? You should actually listen to him speak. You might become enlightened.
 
WOW!

You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt how clueless you are.

The 90s in Russia were the post-communist Yeltsin era when vulture capitalists - many from the US and West - and Russian oligarchs were raping the country. And yet you somehow think that's an indictment of socialism.

A simple mistake one makes when one makes everything up as they go along.
 
What a warped perspective. What other country in the world could produce a story like Tim Scott's? You should actually listen to him speak. You might become enlightened.

Like literally every other developed country in the world could produce such a story. Probably without the mom being forced to work 16 hours a day too.

In fact in terms of income mobility we are one of the worst in the developed world.
 
What a warped perspective. What other country in the world could produce a story like Tim Scott's? You should actually listen to him speak. You might become enlightened.
I didn't put words in his mouth. This is what he said. And as others here have pointed out, almost all other developed nations have more socioeconomic mobility than the United States. Liberals, including some Democrats, advocate for policies more like those in nations with higher mobility, while Republicans are staunchly opposed. A warped perspective would be thinking that we will be successful by doing the opposite of what works for everyone else.
 
What other country would require 16 hour work days on the sliver of a chance your kids can be successful?
Every country in the world. We all work endlessly to provide a good life for our descendants. I am sure your ancestors did also.
 
Every country in the world. We all work endlessly to provide a good life for our descendants. I am sure your ancestors did also.
Not like the US. We're one of the worse in terms of works hours vs ability to move up in life. A lot of countries look at us and wonder why we put up with it?
 
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You are the only one who is using "guaranteed" in this argument. Why is that?

Nobody is disagreeing with you on guarantees . . . because the argument is about how a decent society should look, not about specific, made-up transactions.
No society should look anything like what Bernie wants, just sayin.....
 
A question, can a capitalistic society exist when fascism is the preferred political system by maga scum?
You don't even know what fascism is. Take it from me, it isn't wanting our borders secure, lower taxes and low crime and inflation.
 
Not like the US. We're one of the worse in terms of works hours vs ability to move up in life. A lot of countries look at us and wonder why we put up with it?
Can I ask which countries? Why are so many people hellbent on getting to and living in the United States?
 
That is the most uneducated interpretation of the capitalistic system I've ever heard. Where in the world are you promised that if you work long hours you will be rich? I'm guessing Mr. Scott was saying his mother worked hard to provide for her children so her children could have a better life and it appears it worked out that way.

If you clean apartments for 16 hours a day you likely will not get rich, is that a surprise to you? Here, write this down in case you forget, some jobs pay better than others and there are never guarantees in life.
You seem okay with a large amount of Americans living in poverty.
 
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Wait so if I shoot baskets for 12 hours a day and exercise for 4 hours a day, I’m not guaranteed a spot in the NBA? I don’t understand?!?

We should totally reward the guy who works only 8 hours a day or not at all the same as the guy who works 16 hours a day!!! In the end we should all be equally miserable and we can call it equity.
This post, right here. sums up the lack of thinking by the American rightwing voting bloc. Selfish as hell and the wealthy LOVE the way you think. Other countries laugh at us, because they take care of their citizens. We take care of the well off. Always.
 
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Abby97…woof.

16 hour days should at the very least keep you out of poverty, and probably should allow a level of comfort.

Socialism is not always, and often is not Communism.

People going bankrupt due to getting sick is fine reason why people might have problem with our over capitalistic system.

There is a balance. Our scale is clearly tilted far too much towards capitalism.
This. It's completely ridiculous that people work for decades, raise a family, pay their taxes, get sick and lose everything. They play by the rules and our system doesn't protect them from a catastrophe. 10% of the population doesn't have to worry about this, and they sure as hell don't worry about the rest of us who do.
 
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You don't even know what fascism is. Take it from me, it isn't wanting our borders secure, lower taxes and low crime and inflation.
Listen to Ron DeSantis - I'm going to destroy leftism in this country. THAT is fascism. Everything he does is fascist and you'll happily vote for it.
 
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I would be willing to bet, that most of the people bringing up these socialism vs. capitalism arguments, are themselves benefitting from the mix that is America.
I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people bringing up these socialism vs capitalism arguments don't even understand that they are economic systems vs forms of government and that pure capitalism hasn't existed in any society in our lifetime.
 
You seem okay with a large amount of Americans living in poverty.
I'm ok with everyone in this country having the opportunity to succeed or fail to any degree possible on their own terms. I believe in freedom and opportunity not government handouts or promises.
 
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In an ad he's running, Tim Scott claims that his mother working 16 hours a day while raising him in poverty is proof that the American system is working. WTF? A flavor of capitalism (or any economic system) that allows people to be poor while working 16 hours a day is either (a) not functioning properly, or (b) designed to enrich a few at the expense of many others. I guess it's an accurate depiction of how our economy works, but if this philosophy wins elections, then this is just more evidence of how far we've gone through the looking glass.
Actually it's a great example.

In most countries someone raised in that situation has no hope of getting out of it, that's not so in America, thanks to capitalism (hence the reason people are drawn to our southern border).

It's a victim mentality to think otherwise. His mother could have done nothing and expected the government to fix it, but didn't, and her son took note and made something of himself.

Feel free to continue to play the victim and cheerlead a victim mentality, I'll opt otherwise.
 
Actually it's a great example.

In most countries someone raised in that situation has no hope of getting out of it, that's not so in America, thanks to capitalism (hence the reason people are drawn to our southern border).

It's a victim mentality to think otherwise. His mother could have done nothing and expected the government to fix it, but didn't, and her son took note and made something of himself.

Feel free to continue to play the victim and cheerlead a victim mentality, I'll opt otherwise.
Or we could invest in making more of our people healthier and better educated so that more people will be able to recognize their potential and be able to climb the socioeconomic ladder. There are many other countries that we could emulate if we wished to do so. Instead, the GOP endorses a race-to-the-bottom model with socialized costs and private profits. Not exactly the vision of capitalism that Adam Smith had.
 
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I'm ok with everyone in this country having the opportunity to succeed or fail to any degree possible on their own terms. I believe in freedom and opportunity not government handouts or promises.
Plenty of government handouts at the top of the economic ladder as well. Corporations have better branding and call them tax credits. Instead of welfare programs. Or charities that are essentially marketing/brand awareness campaigns.
 
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Would you like to show some evidence of that? We have lots of income mobility in the US.

In comparison to the rest of the developed world no we don't.




For example in the US if your father is in the bottom fifth of incomes there is a 42% chance you stay in the bottom 5th yourself. A 50% chance you move up between 1 and 3 tiers and only an 8% chance you reach the top 20%.

By comparison in Denmark you have only a 25% chance of staying, a 61% chance of moving up 1 to 3 tiers and a 14% chance (nearly double) of reaching the top 20%.
 
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Plenty of government handouts at the top of the economic ladder as well. Corporations have better branding and call them tax credits. Instead of welfare programs. Or charities that are essentially marketing/brand awareness campaigns.
So, I'm opposed to those as well, what's your point?
 
In comparison to the rest of the developed world no we don't.




For example in the US if your father is in the bottom fifth of incomes there is a 42% chance you stay in the bottom 5th yourself. A 50% chance you move up between 1 and 3 tiers and only an 8% chance you reach the top 20%.

By comparison in Denmark you have only a 25% chance of staying, a 61% chance of moving up 1 to 3 tiers and a 14% chance (nearly double) of reaching the top 20%.
A lot of people in Denmark don't know their biological father.
A study a couple of years ago stated Denmark leads the world in infidelity.
I would say they aren't working as they are all screwing each other.
 
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A lot of people in Denmark don't know their biological father.
A study a couple of years ago stated Denmark leads the world in infidelity.
I would say they aren't working as they are all screwing each other.
You apparently don't understand the studies and terminology. That's such a shock. Please post your study.
 
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