Was Brad Banks considered a dual threat QB?
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Recruitting profile listed him as a pro-style. I think what you are going to run into is "dual-threat" was not common place at that time.
https://247sports.com/Player/Brad-Banks-70618/Videos
https://247sports.com/Player/Brad-Banks-70618/Videos
To compare him to Cam is wrong. To compare him to CJ is also wrong.
As far as I recall, there wasn't ever any zone read option with Banks mostly because that style of offense didn't "exist" then. Banks could certainly be utilized in a planned QB draw and he could also create with his feet if necessary. I would say that if his style had a name, it would have been MOBILE QB. These days we would certainly refer to him a dual-threat.
If you only allow me to compare Banks to one of the above players, I'd probably have to select CJ. Both made plays with their feet when necessary, but I think Banks was better at it.
As far as I recall, there wasn't ever any zone read option with Banks mostly because that style of offense didn't "exist" then. Banks could certainly be utilized in a planned QB draw and he could also create with his feet if necessary. I would say that if his style had a name, it would have been MOBILE QB. These days we would certainly refer to him a dual-threat.
If you only allow me to compare Banks to one of the above players, I'd probably have to select CJ. Both made plays with their feet when necessary, but I think Banks was better at it.
Not really in the mold of either, but he did run for over 400 yards his senior year so I would tend to lean towards yes if I had to choose.
Anyone else think "dual-threat" is the title given to an athletic qb who isn't always accurate passing? And "great" is a dual threat who is accurate(i.e. Aaron rogers)
There is an MSU player still looking for his jock due to Banks.
I say a lot more like a "healthy" CJB.
Banks was better at extending plays, CJB better at throwing the deep ball.
Banks was better at extending plays, CJB better at throwing the deep ball.
I'm not sure I agree... Tate was very good at avoiding a pass rush, but I don't remember him taking off and running for 20+ yards while making players miss. Banks did that a few times in 2002 and we all recall CJ doing that in 2015. What I do remember about Tate is that spin move he consistently pulled off to avoid a pass rush. Beautiful little spin move, usually followed by a good pass completion once a WR ran himself open. Man, I miss those WRs - Solomon and Hinkle!
Banks could scrambled well when plays broke down, so he was a threat with his feet. KOK did a really nice job of playing to BB’s strengths.
We actually ran the option with Brad every now and then. I know that he scored that way at least once against Northwestern in 2002. Was he Michael Vick? No. But his feet won us the Purdue game that year with that QB draw for 40+ yards on the last drive.
I'd consider him a dual-threat QB. We had designed plays for him to run that we expected to pick up big yards. And he had good enough footwork to juke defenders out of tackles. I don't think he would have been great at it, but he was the kind of athlete where he could have played WR if we needed him to in a pinch in 2001. Not extremely fast in a straight line, but had good change of direction compared to any other starting QB that we've had. Luckily we didn't need him to do that in 2001.
I look at a mobile QB as a guy that you may design runs for this type of player, but you don't expect them to go for 30+ yards. You may also call a lot of bootlegs for this type of player to get them moving in space. CJ pre-injury fits this mold quite a bit. He wasn't juking guys, but he could break off a big run if the opening was there. He also wasn't going to play any position other than QB.
Drew Tate was a scrambling QB. How many of his biggest plays were scrambles because of pressure only to break free and find an open guy 30 yards down field? He just had an elusiveness in the pocket that we haven't seen from anybody else during Ferentz's time.
Stanzi and most of our other QBs were more of a prototypical Pro-style QB. Move in the pocket to buy time. Can roll out if needed. Will tuck it and run if nothing is there, but we never called designed runs for them other than QB sneaks.
Edit:
Forgot to mention the 5th type of QB in the Ferentz era. The pants crapper. The kind of guy that as soon as pressure comes doesn't know what to do, craps their pants, and takes a bad sack. Not to name names, but this happened a lot in 2007. I don't think it was entirely his fault. There were a lot of problems with that team on offense that couldn't be saved by Albert Young. Looking at the roster, we didn't have a single QB, WR, TE, or OL on the team that was a senior. That's a major leadership void for a Ferentz team.
I'd consider him a dual-threat QB. We had designed plays for him to run that we expected to pick up big yards. And he had good enough footwork to juke defenders out of tackles. I don't think he would have been great at it, but he was the kind of athlete where he could have played WR if we needed him to in a pinch in 2001. Not extremely fast in a straight line, but had good change of direction compared to any other starting QB that we've had. Luckily we didn't need him to do that in 2001.
I look at a mobile QB as a guy that you may design runs for this type of player, but you don't expect them to go for 30+ yards. You may also call a lot of bootlegs for this type of player to get them moving in space. CJ pre-injury fits this mold quite a bit. He wasn't juking guys, but he could break off a big run if the opening was there. He also wasn't going to play any position other than QB.
Drew Tate was a scrambling QB. How many of his biggest plays were scrambles because of pressure only to break free and find an open guy 30 yards down field? He just had an elusiveness in the pocket that we haven't seen from anybody else during Ferentz's time.
Stanzi and most of our other QBs were more of a prototypical Pro-style QB. Move in the pocket to buy time. Can roll out if needed. Will tuck it and run if nothing is there, but we never called designed runs for them other than QB sneaks.
Edit:
Forgot to mention the 5th type of QB in the Ferentz era. The pants crapper. The kind of guy that as soon as pressure comes doesn't know what to do, craps their pants, and takes a bad sack. Not to name names, but this happened a lot in 2007. I don't think it was entirely his fault. There were a lot of problems with that team on offense that couldn't be saved by Albert Young. Looking at the roster, we didn't have a single QB, WR, TE, or OL on the team that was a senior. That's a major leadership void for a Ferentz team.
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I agree, but lets not forget that we saw CJ fully healthy and scrambling maybe 15% of his time as a starter. Dude could barely hobble in and out of the huddle at times.
I think he was a dual threat in the sense that you had to be conscious of his running ability, but there weren't many plays specifically designed for him to run. He and Seneca Wallace were considered to have the same kind of game, IIRC.
Somewhere in between the two options. Not a pure runner but quicker and more fluid than CJ.
His key was we were good enough on O and he was good enough of a passer to keep everyone honest on D.
His key was we were good enough on O and he was good enough of a passer to keep everyone honest on D.
I think that's kind of fair but Seneca was much better at making people miss and running around in any direction to keep plays alive. Banks was a bit more north-south with his running ability, and by that I mean he was running with the purpose to gain yards whereas Seneca was just so natural at keeping a play alive.
I also think that Seneca was the better player and would be the exact kind of recruit KF desperately needs to have a shot at a title. I really do believe a player of his quality would put the Hawks over the top.
I think the comparison back then would have been with somebody like Randall Cunningham.
I actually typed that name originally and then thought "man, I am not sure I remember Cunningham well enough to say this". Funny you mentioned it though.
I can't rubber stamp him as any type singularly. My best description of his playing style is "smooth". He never looked rushed or hurried.
I don't think Brad Banks was even considered a single threat quarterback when he transferred to IOWA. He proved himself to be one of IOWA's best ever.
Not really, Tate used his mobility to buy time to find an open receiver, and didn't really run it that often. Banks was truly a dual threat QB. During his senior year, he solved a lot of 3rd and 6, or 3rd and 7 situations by just tucking the ball and running for the first down. He was great at keeping the chains moving. He was deceptively fast and was great at making people miss.
If you had to use an NFL guy.... Russell Wilson maybe.
Seneca was better than Banks; I think most objective people (I am not one of them) would agree with that assessment. But as you noted, he was a scrambler. I don't think there were any plays intended for him to run the ball.
Gives me an excuse to post this.....again
Seneca was better than Banks; I think most objective people (I am not one of them) would agree with that assessment. But as you noted, he was a scrambler. I don't think there were any plays intended for him to run the ball.
Gives me an excuse to post this.....again
The greatest play in Iowa State history: a scramble touchdown against an unranked Texas Tech team. Truly amazing.
Wait that was Iowa St? Cant tell since they change uniforms/ logos every 2.5 years.
I would hope even Hawkeye fans could admit that. Yeah, some will talk about the Heisman votes for Banks but we all know that's more of a reflection of Iowa's 11-1 record and yes, ISU fans, we're also aware of who the "1" was in that record.
The thing is, Seneca went on to have an NFL career and Banks didn't, which kind of tells you who the better player was right there.
If Brad doesn't hurt his thumb causing him to fumble the ball twice in the ISU game, we likely finish 12-0 and he probably wins the Heisman Trophy. I have a hard time believing that a guy with his stats on an undefeated team in a major conference doesn't win it.
Was he a better pro QB than Seneca? Obviously not, he wasn't the kind of extreme athlete that could survive as dual threat in the NFL. And he wasn't the kind of in the pocket pro-style QB that NFL teams want.
But, I'd argue that he was the better College QB. KOK did a brilliant job that season as the Offensive Coordinator and Brad was the perfect player for that system. He rarely had Brad survey the whole field to make a pass like he could do with Drew Tate. Instead Brad threw tons of screen passes where the pass was per-determined, and a ton of passes out of the bootleg where half of the field was effectively eliminated so that Brad could concentrate on looking for an open receiver in a much smaller space. Those are the kinds of things that you can do in college but not in the NFL. NFL defenses are too good and well coached to simplify the offense like that.
Seneca was a poor man's Antwann Randle-El in college. Which is still a damn good player. But many of his plays were made not because he was an elite QB, but rather because he was a really good athlete that could buy time or take off and get yards on his own.
And after all of that I know have to tell my favorite ISU joke. How many ISU fans does it take to screw in a light bulb? Three. One to do the work and two to talk about how great Seneca Wallace was.
Was he a better pro QB than Seneca? Obviously not, he wasn't the kind of extreme athlete that could survive as dual threat in the NFL. And he wasn't the kind of in the pocket pro-style QB that NFL teams want.
But, I'd argue that he was the better College QB. KOK did a brilliant job that season as the Offensive Coordinator and Brad was the perfect player for that system. He rarely had Brad survey the whole field to make a pass like he could do with Drew Tate. Instead Brad threw tons of screen passes where the pass was per-determined, and a ton of passes out of the bootleg where half of the field was effectively eliminated so that Brad could concentrate on looking for an open receiver in a much smaller space. Those are the kinds of things that you can do in college but not in the NFL. NFL defenses are too good and well coached to simplify the offense like that.
Seneca was a poor man's Antwann Randle-El in college. Which is still a damn good player. But many of his plays were made not because he was an elite QB, but rather because he was a really good athlete that could buy time or take off and get yards on his own.
And after all of that I know have to tell my favorite ISU joke. How many ISU fans does it take to screw in a light bulb? Three. One to do the work and two to talk about how great Seneca Wallace was.
Fair enough, Herky T and I can agree that Banks was great in the Hawkeye offense that year. With many years gone by and plenty of time to reflect, what would each school say about this trade offer (I know, hypothetical): Banks traded from Iowa to ISU for Seneca.
I think both schools would keep their player. Seneca was the kind of guy that could make an unbelievable play with his feet and win a game. But sometimes those kinds of guys end up hurting the team because they think that they can do anything and end up making situations worse. The only time that Brad made anything significantly worse in a game is when his thumb was injured in that ISU game and caused a couple of fumbles. With the team that we had that year, Seneca could have hurt us as he may have been less willing to get the ball to our playmakers like CJ Jones, Mo Brown, Dallas Clark, Ed Hinkel, Fred Russell, and Jermelle Lewis. Brad was a perfect complement to those players. I don't think Seneca would have been.
ISU fans won't want Brad because in their minds Seneca was the greatest or 2nd greatest player in team history.
A "pure runner" isn't a "dual-threat."
Banks very much was a dual threat. He was solid at both categories, if not great at either.
The answer is yes. He was a dual threat. Why?
Because of all the QB's Iowa has played since 2000, he was probably the only one who wasn't told not to run.
Also, if he gained 400 yards in 2002 on the ground as a QB playing for a team like Iowa, that means he was a dual threat. It's probably 300 more yards than any other Iowa QB ran for in a season during that span.
Because of all the QB's Iowa has played since 2000, he was probably the only one who wasn't told not to run.
Also, if he gained 400 yards in 2002 on the ground as a QB playing for a team like Iowa, that means he was a dual threat. It's probably 300 more yards than any other Iowa QB ran for in a season during that span.
Some Iowa QB running info:
In 2002, Banks had 80+ rushes for over 400 yards, averaging over 5 yards per carry.
In 2004, Drew Tate had minus 68 yards rushing for that season.
In 2005 Drew had all of 41 yards rushing in that season.
In 2006 Drew really broke out with 124 yards rushing.
In 2007, JC had--and this is actually kind of funny, considering--99 carries for exactly 0.0 total yards. Yes, exactly zero. He apparently had a talent for that sort of thing.
In 2009 Ricky Stanzi had minus 31 yards rushing.
In sum, Banks ran for so many more yards than any other QB we had, a ridiculously greater number that actually won us games (like Purdue), so yes he was a dual threat QB.
In 2002, Banks had 80+ rushes for over 400 yards, averaging over 5 yards per carry.
In 2004, Drew Tate had minus 68 yards rushing for that season.
In 2005 Drew had all of 41 yards rushing in that season.
In 2006 Drew really broke out with 124 yards rushing.
In 2007, JC had--and this is actually kind of funny, considering--99 carries for exactly 0.0 total yards. Yes, exactly zero. He apparently had a talent for that sort of thing.
In 2009 Ricky Stanzi had minus 31 yards rushing.
In sum, Banks ran for so many more yards than any other QB we had, a ridiculously greater number that actually won us games (like Purdue), so yes he was a dual threat QB.
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