Watching IA - ND on ESPN and looks good

[PhantomFlyer]

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed even if we win tomorrow. But 2 games doesn't make a season. Remember when the sky was falling last year after back to backs to Texas and Syracuse, or when we were .500 in Big ten play. Everyone said this team just isn't the same without Marble and Basabe. Well.... I think this team will be just fine. Also I disagree, I'm not expecting much out of next years team.

Next year's team is the team that could flourish, IF Fran can get a stud PG.

2 games don't make a season, but the first 3 games don't either. This team is neither very good, nor is it very bad. Which is why it is likely a bubble team. There's plenty of talent, but also plenty of warts. They don't play good defense, nor do they rebound well. It's hard to win a lot of games in the B1G when you aren't very good in either of those two areas. It's not like this is a young team. 4 returning starters, so they should have a tremendous advantage over pretty much every team they face early in the season. How much better is Iowa going to get? Do you really think Woody, MG, Sapp, Uthoff and Jok are going to get much better as the season goes on? These are veteran players who've been in the system for a number of years. Now, the bench should get stronger, which will make the team better, but I don't expect this team to do tremendous growing from now till Mar. Maybe they'll surprise me.

 

[RocknRollface]

Next year's team is the team that could flourish, IF Fran can get a stud PG.

2 games don't make a season, but the first 3 games don't either. This team is neither very good, nor is it very bad. Which is why it is likely a bubble team. There's plenty of talent, but also plenty of warts. They don't play good defense, nor do they rebound well. It's hard to win a lot of games in the B1G when you aren't very good in either of those two areas. It's not like this is a young team. 4 returning starters, so they should have a tremendous advantage over pretty much every team they face early in the season. How much better is Iowa going to get? Do you really think Woody, MG, Sapp, Uthoff and Jok are going to get much better as the season goes on? These are veteran players who've been in the system for a number of years. Now, the bench should get stronger, which will make the team better, but I don't expect this team to do tremendous growing from now till Mar. Maybe they'll surprise me.

The player that has huge room for improvement and could change the path of this year is Uhl.

He could be so much better if his effort level and focus improved.

 

[Mohawkeye]

"Next year's team is the team that could flourish, IF Fran can get a stud PG."

I couldn't disagree more. We aren't going to be better losing 4 senior starters. I like our future, but next year is going to be rough.

 

[RocknRollface]

No, there's been at least a couple of the posters here (who I won't name to avoid an argument) who claimed White was more a hindrance to the halfcourt offense.

The problem isn't just intensity wise on defense. If that was the case there would be little concern. The problem is they lack quickness, especially at the guard position. Quick guards easily get by our defenders which then require others to help and you have poor rotation on the help defense. Another poster nailed it when he said we help out too much. Sometimes we help out when there's no need, and we leave shooters wide open.

This team isn't bad. They have lots of talent. They are worse defensively, and better offensively than they were last season. The difference is the team isn't nearly as strong on the boards. This is where Gabe and Whitey are really missed. Both the offense and defensive glass.

Well before White starting making jump shots at the end of last year he was a big liability in the half court, that's not really even debatable, but that's not the same as ball hogging.


As for D.

Jok lacks quickness to play good d but Gessel and Clemons are fine. Theve had a few mistakes but for the most part those two have been excellent defenders for their careers. The problem is way to much sagging and "helping".

Anytime the ball goes into the lane way to many hawk players get sucked in for no reason, the ball gets kicked out and then everyone's out of positions.

This must get corrected.

The aggressive way we defend screens causes some scrambling too.

 

[RocknRollface]

"Next year's team is the team that could flourish, IF Fran can get a stud PG."

I couldn't disagree more. We aren't going to be better losing 4 senior starters. I like our future, but next year is going to be rough.

Yes next year is clearly a rebuilding year with very little experience.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Not sure I agree with you about next year, Phantom.
But I'm entirely on board that this is a bubble team.
That's not a knock.
It's a realistic current appraisal of where they stand in the landscape of D-1 ball.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Well before White starting making jump shots at the end of last year he was a big liability in the half court, that's not really even debatable, but that's not the same as ball hogging.


As for D.

Jok lacks quickness to play good d but Gessel and Clemons are fine. Theve had a few mistakes but for the most part those two have been excellent defenders for their careers. The problem is way to much sagging and "helping".

Anytime the ball goes into the lane way to many hawk players get sucked in for no reason, the ball gets kicked out and then everyone's out of positions.

This must get corrected.

The aggressive way we defend screens causes some scrambling too.

I've said the offense is better this season, but it has nothing to do with White's shooting, or lack thereof. Iowa had no outside scoring threat outside of Uthoff. Whitey was a good FT. He also brought an intensity and hustle to the team.

Jok is just doesn't put in the effort. Oglesby was slower than Jok but he played much better defense than Jok. Defense is about effort, technique, positioning. You can be a solid defensive player and not be that quick.

Gesell and Clemons are decent, not great defenders. They are fine against most PG's, but as you saw in the Dayton game they can get torched by quick guards. Both of them got schooled big time in that game. As you say though, the bigger problem is the "sagging" or helping on defense.

This team lacks an interior presence, a shot blocker, along with rebounders. This is where White and Gabe were so valuable. Both guys could block or alter shots, so it made it more difficult for guys penetrating the lane. Nobody fears Woody blocking their shot, nor any of the other Hawkeye starters. Remember when Gesell went into the lane and tried to lay up a shot and the ND center swatted it into the 3rd row? Iowa has no starter who can do that so you see their "Gesell" get off the layup for a bucket. White and Gabe also gave the offense multiple chances to score because they would get offensive rebounds. This team doesn't have a big rebounder so there's a lot of one and done with the offense.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Yes next year is clearly a rebuilding year with very little experience.

Maybe, but Fran should have much more athleticism, especially at the guard position. They should be a better shooting team (at least from the outside), quicker, and more physical inside. It could take them a while to gel but you should see that team grow a lot from Nov to Mar. I think the ceiling is higher on that team. The floor is likely higher on this team but the ceiling is higher on next year's team imo. Of course, that's dependent on Fran bringing in a stud PG. If he doesn't, next year's team will struggle. College basketball is all about guard play.

 

[kzoohawk80]

"Next year's team is the team that could flourish, IF Fran can get a stud PG."

I couldn't disagree more. We aren't going to be better losing 4 senior starters. I like our future, but next year is going to be rough.

I'm not sure about that. The leads in both games in the second half grew with the starters out there. Both comebacks in both games where because of the bench. Baer, Jones and Ellingson where factors in the comebacks. Our bench players aren't really having a hard time shooting. Take a look at the progression of shooting for Clemmons, Gessell and I'll even throw in Woodbury. It hasn't been great. If anything our bench can already shoot and will have to work on the thing that seems easier to coach and that's their defense.

 

[kzoohawk80]

This team isn't bad. They have lots of talent. They are worse defensively, and better offensively than they were last season. The difference is the team isn't nearly as strong on the boards. This is where Gabe and Whitey are really missed. Both the offense and defensive glass.

This team misses White's leadership. I know there are some people who thought this team would be better without White, and that he was a ball hog,etc. Nonsense. White was a helluva player. They miss the rebounding and shot blocking ability that White and Gabe gave them. Woody can't jump 2 inches and there's nobody who is a threat to swat a shot away when a guard drives to the bucket.

The offense looks better as they have more shooters this year, but the defense is really, really, bad. Mix that in with lack of rebounding ability and it could be a tough season for Iowa.

A lot of good stuff in your posts Phantom. A couple of things. With White and Gabe leaving from last year it's going to be an adjustment for us as fans. The last 4 years the half court offense hasn't been great but we've dominated on the boards and protected the rim. That's just not this team and it won't be this team. We are an average rebounding team and not a poor one. We've been spoiled the last 4 years when it comes to rebounding so we think this team is bad at rebounding. That's how good White, Basabe, Woodbury, Uthoff and Oleasani have been the last 4 years at rebounding. I'm sure I missed someone. But what this team does have is a whole lot better of a half court offense. This team can shoot teams out of the building and can shoot it's way back into games. Something that has never been true of a Fran team. It's an adjustment for us as fans and I honestly think Fran is adjusting. I really hope Fran is not settled on this starting lineup. Fran needs to adjust to the way this team plays. Didn't like his lineup choices at the end of the game. This is a 3 point shooting team and I don't think Fran realizes it yet. As you already said poor ball penetration D and no rim eraser makes me wonder why Fran doesn't start playing his best shooters at the end of the game.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

A lot of good stuff in your posts Phantom. A couple of things. With White and Gabe leaving from last year it's going to be an adjustment for us as fans. The last 4 years the half court offense hasn't been great but we've dominated on the boards and protected the rim. That's just not this team and it won't be this team. We are an average rebounding team and not a poor one. We've been spoiled the last 4 years when it comes to rebounding so we think this team is bad at rebounding. That's how good White, Basabe, Woodbury, Uthoff and Oleasani have been the last 4 years at rebounding. I'm sure I missed someone. But what this team does have is a whole lot better of a half court offense. This team can shoot teams out of the building and can shoot it's way back into games. Something that has never been true of a Fran team. It's an adjustment for us as fans and I honestly think Fran is adjusting. I really hope Fran is not settled on this starting lineup. Fran needs to adjust to the way this team plays. Didn't like his lineup choices at the end of the game. This is a 3 point shooting team and I don't think Fran realizes it yet. As you already said poor ball penetration D and no rim eraser makes me wonder why Fran doesn't start playing his best shooters at the end of the game.[/QUOTE]
It would be nice if Ellingson could improve his defense because I'd love to have him in the game, at the end. One thing that bothered me tonight was how many shots MG took in the final 5 minutes. He's not a good shooter. His job is to create for others but he was chucking up too many shots. I'd rather he didn't take a shot down the stretch unless it's a layup. What was he doing taking layups when we needed 3 pt shots? I'm not sure why Clemmons is on the court down the stretch in games we are losing. He really provides little offense and he can get careless with the ball. I'd rather have another shooter in the game, even if it means you lose something defensively. I'd keep MG in the game because the team doesn't have another PG who's worth a darn, so you need him to run the offense, but he needs to stop shooting the ball from beyond the arc. He's brick city from beyond the arc.

To be fair, I don't think these were bad losses for Iowa. Both ND and Dayton are good teams. What's disappointing is how bad we looked defensively. Dayton beat us with their quickness off the dribble and their athleticism, ND beat us with their outside shooting (they probably aren't athletic as Iowa). So, Iowa's defense got torched by two very different offenses.

Woody needs to quit getting into foul trouble. The interior defense and board work really suffers when he's not in the game, at least against teams that don't have a real quick, athletic big man. Instead of MG dribbling around for 20 seconds, I'd love to see them pound it into Woody and then let him take the little jumper/layup, or pass out quickly to a shooter. If he continues to play like he did tonight he's going to see more double teams which will mean a shooter being open.

 

[kzoohawk80]

To be fair, I don't think these were bad losses for Iowa. Both ND and Dayton are good teams.

Couldn't agree more. Although that we'll probably be lost on this board. 2 really good coaches too.

 

[CyCity]

Maybe, but Fran should have much more athleticism, especially at the guard position. They should be a better shooting team (at least from the outside), quicker, and more physical inside. It could take them a while to gel but you should see that team grow a lot from Nov to Mar. I think the ceiling is higher on that team. The floor is likely higher on this team but the ceiling is higher on next year's team imo. Of course, that's dependent on Fran bringing in a stud PG. If he doesn't, next year's team will struggle. College basketball is all about guard play.

Fran already signed his PG for next year and I'm guessing he won't be a difference maker his first season

 

[Mohawkeye]

I'm not sure about that. The leads in both games in the second half grew with the starters out there. Both comebacks in both games where because of the bench. Baer, Jones and Ellingson where factors in the comebacks. Our bench players aren't really having a hard time shooting. Take a look at the progression of shooting for Clemmons, Gessell and I'll even throw in Woodbury. It hasn't been great. If anything our bench can already shoot and will have to work on the thing that seems easier to coach and that's their defense.

Oh, I agree our seniors need to play better, no doubt. And I'm not convinced both Gessel and Clemmons should start. I do like Baer, I think he brings some smart play and hustle. But I think it ludicrous to suggest we will be better next year by losing 3-4 senior starters, one of which will play in the NBA (Utoff).

 

[RocknRollface]

This can't be liked enough. As has many have said in the past, if Jok isn't hitting the 3-ball, he really hurts IA.

He's a catch and shoot player and that's it.

I got ridiculed for saying he needs to focus his game on using off the ball screens and realize he cannot put the ball on the deck.

I've said the offense is better this season, but it has nothing to do with White's shooting, or lack thereof. Iowa had no outside scoring threat outside of Uthoff. Whitey was a good FT. He also brought an intensity and hustle to the team.

Jok is just doesn't put in the effort. Oglesby was slower than Jok but he played much better defense than Jok. Defense is about effort, technique, positioning. You can be a solid defensive player and not be that quick.

Gesell and Clemons are decent, not great defenders. They are fine against most PG's, but as you saw in the Dayton game they can get torched by quick guards. Both of them got schooled big time in that game. As you say though, the bigger problem is the "sagging" or helping on defense.

This team lacks an interior presence, a shot blocker, along with rebounders. This is where White and Gabe were so valuable. Both guys could block or alter shots, so it made it more difficult for guys penetrating the lane. Nobody fears Woody blocking their shot, nor any of the other Hawkeye starters. Remember when Gesell went into the lane and tried to lay up a shot and the ND center swatted it into the 3rd row? Iowa has no starter who can do that so you see their "Gesell" get off the layup for a bucket. White and Gabe also gave the offense multiple chances to score because they would get offensive rebounds. This team doesn't have a big rebounder so there's a lot of one and done with the offense.

Those two sentences are a bit contradictory. But I don't really care to talk about last year anymore.

I still think this team will figure it out.

 

[Myvue]

Uthoff is nice player but I doubt he will get drafted unless a lot changes. He isn't even listed in the Top 50 players for the Wooden award. Players can fall out and be added during the season but I doubt that happens. It's surprising how many of the players drafted are from mid-major conferences that Big 5 conference teams play as cupcake teams in pre-conference games.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Very glad Iowa has Uthoff. It is unlikely he will be drafted or make it in the NBA.

 

[kzoohawk80]

Oh, I agree our seniors need to play better, no doubt. And I'm not convinced both Gessel and Clemmons should start. I do like Baer, I think he brings some smart play and hustle. But I think it ludicrous to suggest we will be better next year by losing 3-4 senior starters, one of which will play in the NBA (Utoff).

We are only 5 games into the season. I'm not willing to say that next years team will be better but I'm also not willing to say we will be worse. Plus we can't define what next year's team will have to do to be better because we don't know how good this years team is. I see the potential for next years team 5 games in. We'll see how the rest of the year plays out. Right now it doesn't seem that far fetch that a couple of these guys could emerge this year. Plus we aren't as young as you think next year. Fran has done a fantastic job with player retention. 2 seniors, 1 junior and 5 sophomores next year with probably 2 rs freshman next year.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

He's a catch and shoot player and that's it.

I got ridiculed for saying he needs to focus his game on using off the ball screens and realize he cannot put the ball on the deck.


Those two sentences are a bit contradictory. But I don't really care to talk about last year anymore.

I still think this team will figure it out.

Not really contradictory at all. White was playing the 4 last year and not many 4's are good shooters beyond the arc. He gave them plenty of offense. The problem was they had guards who couldn't shoot beyond the arc.

This team will need to play much better defense. Will they figure it out? Possibly, but I'm not as optimistic as you. A team with 4 senior starters, who've played as many minutes as they have, should have already figured it out.

 

[RocknRollface]

Very glad Iowa has Uthoff. It is unlikely he will be drafted or make it in the NBA.

Uthoff will absolutely be drafted.

 

[Mohawkeye]

Very glad Iowa has Uthoff. It is unlikely he will be drafted or make it in the NBA.

Heard the same thing about Marble and White. Utoff has a game tailor made for the NBA, he only needs to get stronger with the ball, and that will come with age and experience.

 

[Ronman]

The season being over before we even get to December is going to free up a lot of my time. Think I'll take up stamp collecting.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

The season being over before we even get to December is going to free up a lot of my time. Think I'll take up stamp collecting.

Iowa still has some football to play. Then there's always wrestling to follow, so you still won't have time for stamp collecting.