We need more gun control
- Thread starter Thomas Barnes
- Start date
Found a sweet-shooting .22 WinMag pistol with a nine-round clip. Cartridge very powerful for a rimfire, and great for teaching beginners how to shoot without the report/recoil freaking them out. The ammo is also used in a semi-auto rifle we have. Favorite overall handgun? Taurus 5-round revolver in .500 S&W. Needless to say, it's not a weapon that you would want to spend all day on the range with.
If he was sincere and objective (and he's not, so I wouldn't waste any more time with him), that information is readily available, and the statistics are unimpeachable. It's not like it's an obscure, mysterious thing that one couldn't find a link to.
Ummm...yeah they do. For quite a few people actually. So much for LC's "weak....argument".
I'd say he nailed it.
I agree with most of what you said there, SEC, but if the German people had had the right to bear private arms, Hitler & his far-left Nazi thugs would have had to think twice before taking over the country to begin with. And maybe WW2 would have been a totally different affair. One of the first things the Nazis did in their rise to power was to "regulate" private gun ownership.
This.
The point of having a well-regulated militia is as important today as it was in 1776, maybe even more so, given the cast of characters in government today. Whether or not private gun owners would able to stop a military gone awry today is totally irrelevant. It's the deterrent factor that makes the 2nd Amendment relevant.
FWIW, the vast majority of military people share the values of gun owners; indeed, many are themselves private gun-owning NRA members. That would certainly come into play if any such thing ever did happen....most of the military would join the private citizens in defending the Constitution.
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As someone who spent 26 years in the military....pretty spot on. It's amazing the misconceptions folks have about the military.....they think once you join you turn into a mindless robot.
Flic
This was great, everyone should watch it. I love his last point the best. The government has drones! They don't need the soldiers or cops to go along with them. They can program a computer to kill you by remote control.
No one really knows for certain. Many nations regard the U.S. to still be in its infancy. Because it hasn't happened here, doesn't not mean it cannot happen. I can see a rising tide of nationalism in this country. All it takes is for the gov to create a common enemy for the masses to turn on. Too much to go into, so I will just suggest you read this book, They Thought They Were Free, by Milton Mayer. A powerful book that demonstrates how the Reich was built up through the eyes of the people who lived through it. They were just following orders.
http://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928
I'll let you know after SCOTUS rules. Freedom is a more practical construct in my world.
When you're surrounded and surveilled by high grade military equipment, how free are you...in your little dream world?
1930's Germany isn't a very good example. The Junkers ran the military...that's why Hitler courted them in the late 20's and early 30's before he came to power. He bitched about them until he bullet in his brain.....one of the reasons the Waffen SS was created so that in the future they didn't have to deal with the Junker aristocrats who ran the Wehrmacht. The U.S military leadership on the other hand comes from the people and is fully on board with the fact that they answer to civilian leadership. The Junkers thought civilian leadership should answer to them...
Just saying...not a good comparison.
In Iowa, pretty free, in Texas, less so. I'll be able to give you a better answer after we learn how the courts rule on civil rights later this year, but that military is more free than it was just a few years ago. Don't tell me we can't make progress, I know better.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, but disagree. The premise is always the same with the 1% in any country that wishes to maintain its grip on power. Eisenhower warned us about the military complex. JFK had the sack to stand up to them and paid in blood. There is a civilian cabal that finances the military and it is not 'the people'. That's another thread.
I also think the arms industry has way to much influence on the military but I think it's centered more around weapons procurement ect. The actual military leadership itself takes it's orders from the executive branch and that's ingrained right down to the bone....now if you want to talk about undo influence on the executive branch I think there is a case to be made there.
The military itself is pretty a-political and we want it that way. Doesn't matter who is in the oval office...Bush/Obama/Carter/Reagan ect....they take their orders from whoever holds the office. Just think the US military is a different bread of cat when we're talking about the most powerful militaries in history. It has miniscule influence over the civilian leadership and stays out of politics...for the most part. That hasn't been the case for other powerful militaries throughout history.
Quit being such a passive aggressive pussy.
In one breath you state that guns are needed in the event of the government turning on it's own people. And the very next breath you state that no member of the US military would shoot another citizen. So which is it? If they would never shoot you anyways why do you need to carry? Are you that scared for your own life that you feel you need to carry a gun at all times? Are you protecting your house? Do you live in a place in which you fear that soemone is going to try to harm you in public or in your house? Just come out and tell us why you own the gun. Save the Constitutional right stuff for another argument and just tell us the real reason you feel the need to have a gun. "Beacause I can" isn't a real thoughtful response.
To me, the only response that really is necessary is, because I can. The rest is just unnecessary rationalization.
I didn't twist anything out of context. Your argument against slieb was that people needed to carry in the event the government decided to turn on its citizens but then you state no member of the US military would follow through on those orders. So I'll ask again, why do you own/carry a gun? Do you feel unsafe? Are you protecting your property? Why? Just tell us why you own the gun. Don't hide behind some bullshit response about the government turning on its people because as slieb already pointed out if the government wanted your gun they'd already have it by now and your argument contradicts itself anyways. Tell all of us "anti-gun nuts" why you own a gun. I doubt you're doing much hunting in Florida.
I guess I can agree with that.
The problem though is that most people want to prop up the government, other foreign countries, some imaginary boogey man for justification on why they get to own any type of gun they want. I have no problem with people owning guns. My grandpa owns a lot of hunting rifles. If you want to spend your hard earned money on a gun, you have that very right in this country (as long as you qualify). Just quit making up excuses about those entities mentioned earlier on why you feel the need to carry at all times.
My opinion on why people carry is because they are mostly insecure people who feel more confident/stronger when they are carrying.
If that's all you took from my comments, you have the worst reading comprehension, OR you just want to start an argument. Most likely it's a combination of both.
I stated that "NO" military member would follow orders to attack it's citizens? Now I know for a fact you read what you wanted to read, and are twisting it for your own amusement. I also never said that the need to carry was for the unlikely event that the Gov't decided to turn on it's people.
I'm not hiding behind anything. You're just looking for a fight.
I'm asking you a direct question about why you feel the need to own a gun. You won't answer it for some reason. You could have said you enjoyed shooting guns and it was a hobby, that they were handed down to you from your wife's time in the military, it was a gift for good grades, etc.
For some reason you won't answer the question, so I'll just continue to assume that you own a gun because you are an insecure person who gains confidence from carrying. You aren't alone as there are many more like you out there.
Maybe because I don't OWE you an explanation. But I'll give it to you.
First of all, I enjoy shooting. However, when I'm doing a photoshoot, I am leaving my home to work in some of the worst neighborhoods in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale at times. When I do that, I have anywhere from $40K to 0ver $100K worth of equipment with me. Not only that, I have other people on my crew that i'm responsible for their safety. Which Is also why I have a Florida C&C permit. Yes...I'm insured for everything, and even carry a $2 million liability policy to cover people that work with me. However, it's a safety element while on site.
I know other photographers who have been robbed and assaulted in these neighborhoods. The weapon never leaves my vehicle, and my crew never knows that it's on set. I'm also on the road 5-7 months out of the year, and I travel a lot. The only time I fly is if I'm going to the Midwest or to the West Coast to work. So I'm driving......with gear, and I'm not always familiar with the places I'm driving to.
I only have two weapons. A Mossberg 590 for my home, and a Glock 22(.40 cal) for when I travel or have a shoot in a shitty neighborhood. The Glock does not go with all the time. ONLY when for the two reasons I've mentioned. Both weapons have trigger locks and kept in a safe spot, regardless of the fact that my daughter has been thru weapons safety courses and has been trained on both weapons.
You speaking about insecurities is pretty funny. Thanks for the laugh.
First of all, I enjoy shooting. However, when I'm doing a photoshoot, I am leaving my home to work in some of the worst neighborhoods in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale at times. When I do that, I have anywhere from $40K to 0ver $100K worth of equipment with me. Not only that, I have other people on my crew that i'm responsible for their safety. Which Is also why I have a Florida C&C permit. Yes...I'm insured for everything, and even carry a $2 million liability policy to cover people that work with me. However, it's a safety element while on site.
I know other photographers who have been robbed and assaulted in these neighborhoods. The weapon never leaves my vehicle, and my crew never knows that it's on set. I'm also on the road 5-7 months out of the year, and I travel a lot. The only time I fly is if I'm going to the Midwest or to the West Coast to work. So I'm driving......with gear, and I'm not always familiar with the places I'm driving to.
I only have two weapons. A Mossberg 590 for my home, and a Glock 22(.40 cal) for when I travel or have a shoot in a shitty neighborhood. The Glock does not go with all the time. ONLY when for the two reasons I've mentioned. Both weapons have trigger locks and kept in a safe spot, regardless of the fact that my daughter has been thru weapons safety courses and has been trained on both weapons.
You speaking about insecurities is pretty funny. Thanks for the laugh.
People either think one way or another about this topic. I have been off of here for a long time, and you could have taken this thread from 5 years ago and literally transposed it.
Its a divisive issue and always will be. We are just going to continue to have the occasional massacre along with daily shootings. A lot of people don't seem to mind.
Its a divisive issue and always will be. We are just going to continue to have the occasional massacre along with daily shootings. A lot of people don't seem to mind.
There you go sweetheart. Way to put your big boy pants on.
I can agree with everything you laid out in your response and can agree with the justification on why you carry.
Now if you could channel that type of response into all of your replies you wouldn't be classified as the "male with the most estrogen" on this board.
The amusing thing is..........in the past when we've had this discussion....I've laid that out before.
"male with the most estrogen?" Don't ever compare me to TNK85 again.
"male with the most estrogen?" Don't ever compare me to TNK85 again.
I am the last person anyone would ever consider a gun nut. When my liberal friends find out I own a gun they are shocked. I dont live in a bad neighborhood, i am not afraid of the government coming after me, etc. I do go to the gun range about 10 times a year but that is more for safety than fun. I do have a concealed carry permit but almost never carry because I dont feel the need and there are almost no places in Chicago that you can legally carry. So why do I own a gun, just because I can.
Quoted from SEC on page 2:
"I can guarantee you, that if our military was ordered to war against it's own citizens, there would be massive defections of our fighting forces from top to bottom. Why? Because of the military oath, and the principles that our troops are trained under and taught. Of course there are true believers who would do anything asked of them. But there are huge numbers of troops who would view any attack on our own citizens as a violation of their military oath, and would change sides to protect the American people and the countries assets."
Might want to rethink your argument.
and you need to re-read the post.
Mass defections,and huge numbers is not = to "NOONE"
I even say in a later post that there would be "true believers" that would follow the order.
I was talking to Fred. I quoted both of you.
I've said on numerous occasions that gun haters that are scared of people running around with guns on their hips have no idea how many people carry. I know a couple liberals that carry guns but still want strict gun laws.
Fred is hilarious. He posts false quotes and puts words in SECs mouth. Then asks a question that SEC really doesn't have to answer, then calls him out for not answering the question because SEC is busy telling Fred he misquoted him.
Pretty hilarious stand up. I died laughing at the very end when he talked about being able to calm down when fighting with muskets.
He definitely speaks as a man that came from a country that has almost zero guns.
1st. We can't go into "all out destruction mode" when we war with foreign countries that deserve it, so I doubt we'd do it against ourselves.
2nd. If it ever did come to the point that US citizens had to take up arms to defend themselves, this country would probably look completely different than America we know today.
If it ever did get that bad, I think it would be safe to assume that the US economy would be totally in the crapper and without an economy humming along, there wouldn't be enough tax base to maintain a $600 billion a year military.
Without those billions, all those high tech weapons our military depends on, are falling apart and rusting. Think Russia in 94.
Some people think that America is immune to the things that the history books are full of. You people live in a bubble and we all know what happens to bubbles. Unless you can guarantee what America will look like in 2035. Shut up and leave the 2nd alone.
That fact that it's not needed today only proves it's doing it's job.
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