Wednesday copium

[noleclone2]

Deleted my Twitter already and having an HBOT ignore party today.

Best advice I can think of for handling what happened is to worry about controlling what you can control. For those of us in this nation who can see Trump for the awful awful human being that he is and the grave threat to our democracy, which he stands for now, we really can only stand back and watch.

So the only thing to do is try to control what you can control and begin self reflecting on what needs to be done and what went wrong so that just doesn’t happen again. The truth is the Democrats have made a lot of mistakes these last eight years.

First and foremost to me is they have learned nothing about what is going on and how Trump got it in 2016. They have no answer for the disinformation machine and the ability to try to combat that despite knowing this has been going on for nine years now.

Joe Biden well forever, have his legacy diminished by trying to seek a second term when he was so clearly unable to lead the country for another 5 1/2 years. The result was, we had a rushed replacement candidate that was weaker at stopping MAGA even than Hillary Clinton.

It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump. It’s just a fact and sad. She was the only choice due to timing. Any hope she had would have had would have been dependent on Shapiro pushing her to a slim victory in blue wall so that was a catastrophic mistake we can all see now. Walz did nothing.

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president in this new entertainment politics era. Substance matters little. Charisma and looks and TV time matter a lot. And they have to figure out how to combat disinformation or perhaps fight back the same way, sadly.

 

[SA_Hawk]

Democrats had plenty of time to run an expiated primary and flush out weak candidates like Kamala.

 

[Aardvark86]

Personally I think Kamala ran as good a campaign as she could. But…
1. The substantive message ignored one of the most important polling indicators: right/wrong track. In cnn they had an interesting county graphic of where inflation exceeded wage increases. Those are the counties that made the difference.
2. As in commercial marketing, fear based messaging can only take you so far.
3. They’ve got some thorny demographic questions to figure out (eg, Latino males)

 

[nelly02]

Personally I think Kamala ran as good a campaign as she could. But…
1. The substantive message ignored one of the most important polling indicators: right/wrong track. In cnn they had an interesting county graphic of where inflation exceeded wage increases. Those are the counties that made the difference.
2. As in commercial marketing, fear based messaging can only take you so far.
3. They’ve got some thorny demographic questions to figure out (eg, Latino males)

Well number 3 isn't going to be much of a problem since trump is going to be shipping a lot of them out apparently

 

[TNHAWK79]

Deleted my Twitter already and having an HBOT ignore party today.

Best advice I can think of for handling what happened is to worry about controlling what you can control. For those of us in this nation who can see Trump for the awful awful human being that he is and the grave threat to our democracy, which he stands for now, we really can only stand back and watch.

So the only thing to do is try to control what you can control and begin self reflecting on what needs to be done and what went wrong so that just doesn’t happen again. The truth is the Democrats have made a lot of mistakes these last eight years.

First and foremost to me is they have learned nothing about what is going on and how Trump got it in 2016. They have no answer for the disinformation machine and the ability to try to combat that despite knowing this has been going on for nine years now.

Joe Biden well forever, have his legacy diminished by trying to seek a second term when he was so clearly unable to lead the country for another 5 1/2 years. The result was, we had a rushed replacement candidate that was weaker at stopping MAGA even than Hillary Clinton.

It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump. It’s just a fact and sad. She was the only choice due to timing. Any hope she had would have had would have been dependent on Shapiro pushing her to a slim victory in blue wall so that was a catastrophic mistake we can all see now. Walz did nothing.

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president in this new entertainment politics era. Substance matters little. Charisma and looks and TV time matter a lot. And they have to figure out how to combat disinformation or perhaps fight back the same way, sadly.

Most of the country does not share your view, you are in the minority. Even after an ass whoopin, which I told you would happen, you still double down with your stupid ass post. How do you plan on winning people over when you call them idiots, morons, cults, POS? You are the problem, your party is the problem and America has voted! Red Wave baby!!!!

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Personally I think Kamala ran as good a campaign as she could. But…
1. The substantive message ignored one of the most important polling indicators: right/wrong track. In cnn they had an interesting county graphic of where inflation exceeded wage increases. Those are the counties that made the difference.
2. As in commercial marketing, fear based messaging can only take you so far.
3. They’ve got some thorny demographic questions to figure out (eg, Latino males)

It can take you back to the White House, it seems.

 

[Aardvark86]

Well number 3 isn't going to be much of a problem since trump is going to be shipping a lot of them out apparently

Are you suggesting Trump won on the back of illegal immigrant latino males? That would be…something, I guess.

 

[Aardvark86]

It can take you back to the White House, it seems.

In all seriousness rocky, it can’t. To my eye, the Trump vote reflects “some” policy - perhaps implicitly - to a somewhat greater degree than the Harris vote did. Perfectly fair not to like those policies.

Just take a stroll through the messaging of this forum the past few weeks. More than plenty of if pure negativity to go around.

 

[artradley]

Most of the country does not share your view, you are in the minority.

This is the second time since 1988 that the GOP Presidential candidate got more votes than the Democrat, on the heels of a disastrous Democratic primary fiasco. So while I’m sure your Snow White bubble consists predominantly of people who think the way you do, it is not a majority.

 

[artradley]

In all seriousness rocky, it can’t. To my eye, the Trump vote reflects “some” policy - perhaps implicitly - to a somewhat greater degree than the Harris vote did. Perfectly fair not to like those policies.

Just take a stroll through the messaging of this forum the past few weeks.

Lol.

It was ALL fear and anger. It has always been about hating immigrants, trans folks, intellectuals, etc. It is 100% a message of fear, anger, and resentment. And it has worked.

 

[Aardvark86]

This is the second time since 1988 that the GOP Presidential candidate got more votes than the Democrat, on the heels of a disastrous Democratic primary fiasco. So while I’m sure your Snow White bubble consists predominantly of people who think the way you do, it is not a majority.

First off art, recognition that you were right as to outcome which I did not expect.

As to your comment, correct, but that’s the thing. Both sides have some things to figure out about how they are going to deal with “their” coalitions.

 

[gohawks50]

Are you suggesting Trump won on the back of illegal immigrant latino males? That would be…something, I guess.

No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

In all seriousness rocky, it can’t. To my eye, the Trump vote reflects “some” policy - perhaps implicitly - to a somewhat greater degree than the Harris vote did. Perfectly fair not to like those policies.

Just take a stroll through the messaging of this forum the past few weeks. More than plenty of if pure negativity to go around.

Trump/Vance campaign was built on fear and anger about things real and imagined. That’s it.

But hey, it worked.

 

[Aardvark86]

No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

And yet Trump improved 33 points on that group relative to 2020. That’s astounding, counterintuitive, and maybe just weirdly bad data. But if it’s true, it says something that both parties are going to have to decipher

 

[DooBi]

No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

I think Latino males know what kind of immigrants come across the border illegally for nefarious reasons. Not all. Not even most. But they know what is happening.

 

[gohawks50]

Trump/Vance campaign was built on fear and anger about things real and imagined. That’s it.

But hey, it worked.

With some underlying misogyny thrown in.

 

[TNHAWK79]

Lol.

It was ALL fear and anger. It has always been about hating immigrants, trans folks, intellectuals, etc. It is 100% a message of fear, anger, and resentment. And it has worked.

42% of Hispanics voted for Trump. The fear and bullshit came from Kamala and how the world would end if Trump was president. Check out the beautiful sunrise this morning. Take a step back from the keyboard and give it a rest. The fear mongering didn’t work. Next time, don’t try and control democracy and let it ride out. You made this bed by pushing the president to the side, anointing your own handpicked candidate only to get curb stomped.

 

[hexumhawk]

Personally I think Kamala ran as good a campaign as she could. But…
1. The substantive message ignored one of the most important polling indicators: right/wrong track. In cnn they had an interesting county graphic of where inflation exceeded wage increases. Those are the counties that made the difference.
2. As in commercial marketing, fear based messaging can only take you so far.
3. They’ve got some thorny demographic questions to figure out (eg, Latino males)

The Harris campaign made plenty of mistakes but overall she just isn't a good politician with a weak message. They had all the money and the media in their pocket and still lost. It was the message.

 

[artradley]

No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

The problem, apparently, is that our STILL misogynistic society is not limited to white males; it appears to bleed into our minority population, as well. Which is one of the most disappointing discoveries in this election. I believe the Democrats have to understand that our country is not yet ready to elect a female as President. And while I am a huge fan of Mayor Pete, this tells me he is better suited to run as VP, where he can so articulately explain the Democratic position without losing too many of the otherwise Democratic voters who are still homophobes.

 

[hexumhawk]

And yet Trump improved 33 points on that group relative to 2020. That’s astounding, counterintuitive, and maybe just weirdly bad data. But if it’s true, it says something that both parties are going to have to decipher

It says Latinos that are here legally despise on open border.

 

[SB_SB]

The take away for someone like me, an independent, is that both parties suck. They've allowed the extreme to take over and I don't see it getting better.

At some point the democrats have to learn they can't run a female for president. You would have thought they learned it after Hillary but they didn't. trump beat a women, then lost to a male, then beat a women. There's no way republicans will ever vote for a democrat female, no matter how bad the republican candidate is.

 

[TNHAWK79]

This is the second time since 1988 that the GOP Presidential candidate got more votes than the Democrat, on the heels of a disastrous Democratic primary fiasco. So while I’m sure your Snow White bubble consists predominantly of people who think the way you do, it is not a majority.

And they are tired of the woke rhetoric, it was evident last night. Find a safe place, take a deep breath and let it all out. America is tired of the woke agenda. I’ve listened to your shit comments for over a year and now you know how America feels. You are in the minority, no one ever wanted your weak ass candidate and her far extreme agenda.

 

[hawkeye54545]

Two ways to handle this.

1. Dig in keep insulting the other side and supporting the same far left issues that pushed the center to the right.

2. Figure out why people voted for Trump and make the necessary changes to bring them back.

 

[gohawks50]

And yet Trump improved 33 points on that group relative to 2020. That’s astounding, counterintuitive, and maybe just weirdly bad data. But if it’s true, it says something that both parties are going to have to decipher

The whole election is astounding and counterintuitive to me. Women, minorities, and immigrants were courted and included in the Democratic platform, but ultimately many chose to vote for the party that disparages many like them. I guess they believe Trump wasn't talking about them personally just bad actors within their community.

 

[Hock-I]

Deleted my Twitter already and having an HBOT ignore party today.

Best advice I can think of for handling what happened is to worry about controlling what you can control. For those of us in this nation who can see Trump for the awful awful human being that he is and the grave threat to our democracy, which he stands for now, we really can only stand back and watch.

So the only thing to do is try to control what you can control and begin self reflecting on what needs to be done and what went wrong so that just doesn’t happen again. The truth is the Democrats have made a lot of mistakes these last eight years.

First and foremost to me is they have learned nothing about what is going on and how Trump got it in 2016. They have no answer for the disinformation machine and the ability to try to combat that despite knowing this has been going on for nine years now.

Joe Biden well forever, have his legacy diminished by trying to seek a second term when he was so clearly unable to lead the country for another 5 1/2 years. The result was, we had a rushed replacement candidate that was weaker at stopping MAGA even than Hillary Clinton.

It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump. It’s just a fact and sad. She was the only choice due to timing. Any hope she had would have had would have been dependent on Shapiro pushing her to a slim victory in blue wall so that was a catastrophic mistake we can all see now. Walz did nothing.

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president in this new entertainment politics era. Substance matters little. Charisma and looks and TV time matter a lot. And they have to figure out how to combat disinformation or perhaps fight back the same way, sadly.

That is the absolute best thing you can do, with the exclusion of ignoring anybody you disagree with. The free exchange of ideas is one of the things that’s always made America great and by taking away a dissenting voice, you just live in an echo chamber. That’s not good for Democrats or Republicans.

When Biden won, I knew the world wasn’t going to end. I figured some things wouldn’t go the direction that I liked and that proved true, but that’s the nice thing about having elections every four years, nobody can do enough damage that it can’t be reversed.

The democrat party should be ashamed by trying to dupe the American people for so long that Joe Biden was well. There were so many examples of him mentally declining and anyone who suggested that was called the traditional “names”. The debate could not hide it any longer, and they were exposed, and they then made the choice to put somebody in based on how they looked (a female of color).

I think you are absolutely wrong that people didn’t vote for Kamala based on her being a female and her race. That narrative is destroying the Democrat party at this point in time. There is no doubt in my mind if you would not have run Tulsi Gabbard out of the party, and had her on the ticket, she would have beat Trump last night. The problem isn’t what sex or race a person is, it’s the ideas that come out of their mouth.

Anyhow, hang in there. It’s never as bad as you think it’s going to be and on my side, Trump will not be nearly as good as I hope he will be. Human beings disappoint all the time and that won’t change. The pendulum always swings back-and-forth, so in the future I will be the one that’s down and you will be the one excited. Just a matter time.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Two ways to handle this.

1. Dig in keep insulting the other side and supporting the same far left issues that pushed the center to the right.

2. Figure out why people voted for Trump and make the necessary changes to bring them back.

Obviously 2 is the preferred approach, but what are the “far left” issues the Dems should reassess?

 

[gohawks50]

The take away for someone like me, an independent, is that both parties suck. They've allowed the extreme to take over and I don't see it getting better.

At some point the democrats have to learn they can't run a female for president. You would have thought they learned it after Hillary but they didn't. trump beat a women, then lost to a male, then beat a women. There's no way republicans will ever vote for a democrat female, no matter how bad the republican candidate is.

Sad, but true.

 

[TNHAWK79]

Trump/Vance campaign was built on fear and anger about things real and imagined. That’s it.

But hey, it worked.

It’s unconscionable to me that you think the fear came from Trump campaign. I can’t recall when Kamala was shot?
The only fear mongering and anger came from dems and how the sun wouldn’t rise if Trump was elected. No one bought the fear, Kamala’s hate speech every time she spoke, her non commitment answers, and her far left agenda. You stole democracy, ran on hate, and if failed. Your 60 posts a day are filled with anger and divisiveness. America doesn’t share your opinion! Take a break, spend time with your non-binary partner, and enjoy this beautiful sunrise!!

 

[artradley]

And they are tired of the woke rhetoric, it was evident last night. Find a safe place, take a deep breath and let it all out. America is tired of the woke agenda. I’ve listened to your shit comments for over a year and now you know how America feels. You are in the minority, no one ever wanted your weak ass candidate and her far extreme agenda.

It appears you are the one who needs to take a deep breath.

You are the picture of what happened in this election, and why the MAGA movement exists. You are angry that our nation's culture is no longer driven by white, rural folks who in your mind still represent the "real" America. Our culture is driven by the "coastal elites" and liberal intellectuals, and it makes you feel marginalized. Voting for Trump is your way of flipping the bird at those people who make you feel small and irrelevant. And so even in victory you are angry and hostile; insisting that YOU own this country.

The good news for people like me is that our country is still driven primarily by things outside of government. Business, industry, entertainment, etc. drive this country and its culture. And while the MAGAs stand behind cursing the wave of progress, clinging to their guns, their religion, and their orange icon, the rest of us are riding that wave into the future. Yes, it's discouraging how backwards much of our country remains. But the wheels keep on turning and we keep moving forward, shaking our heads at you.

 

[artradley]

The take away for someone like me, an independent, is that both parties suck. They've allowed the extreme to take over and I don't see it getting better.

At some point the democrats have to learn they can't run a female for president. You would have thought they learned it after Hillary but they didn't. trump beat a women, then lost to a male, then beat a women. There's no way republicans will ever vote for a democrat female, no matter how bad the republican candidate is.

I don't believe the issue is that Republicans won't vote for a female; it's that too many traditional Democratic voters won't turn out for a female candidate. That is the hard lesson we have to learn from this.

 

[SB_SB]

And yet Trump improved 33 points on that group relative to 2020. That’s astounding, counterintuitive, and maybe just weirdly bad data. But if it’s true, it says something that both parties are going to have to decipher

The democrats have to realize that Latino men are not going to vote for a black women. Even black men won't vote for a black women.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Deleted my Twitter already and having an HBOT ignore party today.

Best advice I can think of for handling what happened is to worry about controlling what you can control. For those of us in this nation who can see Trump for the awful awful human being that he is and the grave threat to our democracy, which he stands for now, we really can only stand back and watch.

So the only thing to do is try to control what you can control and begin self reflecting on what needs to be done and what went wrong so that just doesn’t happen again. The truth is the Democrats have made a lot of mistakes these last eight years.

First and foremost to me is they have learned nothing about what is going on and how Trump got it in 2016. They have no answer for the disinformation machine and the ability to try to combat that despite knowing this has been going on for nine years now.

Joe Biden well forever, have his legacy diminished by trying to seek a second term when he was so clearly unable to lead the country for another 5 1/2 years. The result was, we had a rushed replacement candidate that was weaker at stopping MAGA even than Hillary Clinton.

It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump. It’s just a fact and sad. She was the only choice due to timing. Any hope she had would have had would have been dependent on Shapiro pushing her to a slim victory in blue wall so that was a catastrophic mistake we can all see now. Walz did nothing.

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president in this new entertainment politics era. Substance matters little. Charisma and looks and TV time matter a lot. And they have to figure out how to combat disinformation or perhaps fight back the same way, sadly.

Great. Create an even smaller echo chamber of people who agree with you, so you can be even more distraught the next time an election doesn’t go your way. Sounds like a winning plan to me. 🙄🙄🙄

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

It’s unconscionable to me that you think the fear came from Trump campaign. I can’t recall when Kamala was shot?
The only fear mongering and anger came from dems and how the sun wouldn’t rise if Trump was elected. No one bought the fear, Kamala’s hate speech every time she spoke, her non commitment answers, and her far left agenda. You stole democracy, ran on hate, and if failed. Your 60 posts a day are filled with anger and divisiveness. America doesn’t share your opinion! Take a break, spend time with your non-binary partner, and enjoy this beautiful sunrise!!

You sure are worked up!

 

[hawkeye54545]

Obviously 2 is the preferred approach, but what are the “far left” issues the Dems should reassess?

The border, trans in women's sports issues etc...

I'm saying perception is reality and the Dems gave a perception problem. They have to realize the common person doesn't like where they believe the Dems stand on those issues.

 

[ButtersHawk]

No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

About 50% of my department at work is Latino and as of this morning they are thrilled Trump won. Some of them came here legally and acquired citizenship and consider coming across the border and saying "base" is a slap in their face.
Also I've posted this on this board before with little reaction but a lot Latinos are Catholic and the woke policies that Dems are attached to don't jive with them.

I'm shocked Trump won but I'm not shocked one bit that he did well with Latinos

 

[TNHAWK79]

It appears you are the one who needs to take a deep breath.

You are the picture of what happened in this election, and why the MAGA movement exists. You are angry that our nation's culture is no longer driven by white, rural folks who in your mind still represent the "real" America. Our culture is driven by the "coastal elites" and liberal intellectuals, and it makes you feel marginalized. Voting for Trump is your way of flipping the bird at those people who make you feel small and irrelevant. And so even in victory you are angry and hostile; insisting that YOU own this country.

The good news for people like me is that our country is still driven primarily by things outside of government. Business, industry, entertainment, etc. drive this country and its culture. And while the MAGAs stand behind cursing the wave of progress, clinging to their guns, their religion, and their orange icon, the rest of us are riding that wave into the future. Yes, it's discouraging how backwards much of our country remains. But the wheels keep on turning and we keep moving forward, shaking our heads at you.

Your 34k posts in 10 years tell me otherwise. I’ve heard your bullshit over the last year. Stop bitching and go find a safe space to enjoy this wonderful, beautiful sunrise!

 

[SB_SB]

I don't believe the issue is that Republicans won't vote for a female; it's that too many traditional Democratic voters won't turn out for a female candidate. That is the hard lesson we have to learn from this.

And you're right, but by running a women, the democrats also lose crossover votes. If the democrats won't come out and vote for a female, then why would an left leaning republican (or independent) vote for a female.

 

[gohawks50]

saying "base" is a slap in their face.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The border, trans in women's sports issues etc...

I'm saying perception is reality and the Dems gave a perception problem. They have to realize the common person doesn't like where they believe the Dems stand on those issues.

I don’t disagree and have said the same on here before. Too many whistling past the graveyard on issues like the border and gas/grocery prices.

I don’t think the next D candidate should “become” Trump or reject the core D values, just try to appeal to more folks with some common-sense positions.

 

[TNHAWK79]

You sure are worked up!

Kamala got curb stomped and a red wave took over every single swing state and you think I’m worked up? Enjoy the sunrise!