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Wednesday copium

Great. Create an even smaller echo chamber of people who agree with you, so you can be even more distraught the next time an election doesn’t go your way. Sounds like a winning plan to me. 🙄🙄🙄

Twitter is not a healthy environment to be part of no matter which side you're on. If you're using twitter to validate your thoughts and ideas, you really should do some self reflection.
 
Are you suggesting Trump won on the back of illegal immigrant latino males? That would be…something, I guess.
If you think any legal immigrants aren't going to be shipped out I've got a bridge to sell ya
 
If you think any legal immigrants aren't going to be shipped out I've got a bridge to sell ya

I hope trump ships them all out, but he won't. This is just another "build the wall" joke that does nothing but feed the anger of people. I have no skin in the game when it comes to immigrants so ship em out, I don't really care.
 
Deleted my Twitter already and having an HBOT ignore party today.

Best advice I can think of for handling what happened is to worry about controlling what you can control. For those of us in this nation who can see Trump for the awful awful human being that he is and the grave threat to our democracy, which he stands for now, we really can only stand back and watch.

So the only thing to do is try to control what you can control and begin self reflecting on what needs to be done and what went wrong so that just doesn’t happen again. The truth is the Democrats have made a lot of mistakes these last eight years.

First and foremost to me is they have learned nothing about what is going on and how Trump got it in 2016. They have no answer for the disinformation machine and the ability to try to combat that despite knowing this has been going on for nine years now.

Joe Biden well forever, have his legacy diminished by trying to seek a second term when he was so clearly unable to lead the country for another 5 1/2 years. The result was, we had a rushed replacement candidate that was weaker at stopping MAGA even than Hillary Clinton.

It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump. It’s just a fact and sad. She was the only choice due to timing. Any hope she had would have had would have been dependent on Shapiro pushing her to a slim victory in blue wall so that was a catastrophic mistake we can all see now. Walz did nothing.

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president in this new entertainment politics era. Substance matters little. Charisma and looks and TV time matter a lot. And they have to figure out how to combat disinformation or perhaps fight back the same way, sadly.
Do yourself a favor and never redownload twitter either.

Getting rid of all social media besides this if you count it is one of the best decisions I've made
 
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It was very foolish to think in these times to think that a black woman could beat Trump….

The Democrats are going to have to figure out how to run better candidates for president…
Sorry, confused: So was it Harris’ race and gender that was the problem, or that she was not a better candidate?
 
The Harris campaign made plenty of mistakes but overall she just isn't a good politician with a weak message. They had all the money and the media in their pocket and still lost. It was the message.
People want to blame misogyny and racism. They just don’t want to admit that she comes across as unlikable and, uh, not smart.

Bad message and bad messenger = double whammy.
 
Sorry, confused: So was it Harris’ race and gender that was the problem, or that she was not a better candidate?
Both?

I think she was a better candidate than Trump but clearly I’m outvoted there.

She is definitely not the best candidate the Dems could’ve put up but I don’t know if anyone else was a realistic option under the circumstances.
 
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No, but I would think Latino males would be insulted by all the accusations leveled at Latino immigrants crossing the southern border.

It's not that hard to understand, unless you refuse to understand. Those who dismiss the border/illegal crisis live in towns and communities that they don't deal with any of the community and economic and crime fallout of illegal immigrants. That is, unless Desantis buses them in.

Guess who DOES live in communities that are being strained, having hardships, and experiencing economic and quality of life fallout from illegal Latino immigrants? Latino voters.

The Martha's Vineyard crowd lecturing Latino Americans in border towns about the borders is one of the big reasons the Democrats are here today.
 
Sorry, confused: So was it Harris’ race and gender that was the problem, or that she was not a better candidate?
Her race and gender are part of what makes her a candidate, so it's not an "or" situation.
 
I don’t disagree and have said the same on here before. Too many whistling past the graveyard on issues like the border and gas/grocery prices.

I don’t think the next D candidate should “become” Trump or reject the core D values, just try to appeal to more folks with some common-sense positions.
Nothing to do with any of this. A majority of Americans stopped thinking and put an authoritarian strongman in power to fix everything. Even though his "fixes" don't make any sense.

Republicans are always going to find more bullshit "issues" like the trans to flim flam people. The border will now disappear as an issue until it becomes convenient to raise the rascist flag again.

If it really is about inflation (gas/grocery prices), Trump's declared agenda is just gonna make that issue much worse.

Democrats have been trying to appeal to the population with "common sense" positions for decades now and it's gotten them nowhere, they have a messaging problem, not an issues problem.
 
It's not that hard to understand, unless you refuse to understand. Those who dismiss the border/illegal crisis live in towns and communities that they don't deal with any of the community and economic and crime fallout of illegal immigrants. That is, unless Desantis buses them in.

Guess who DOES live in communities that are being strained, having hardships, and experiencing economic and quality of life fallout from illegal Latino immigrants? Latino voters.

The Martha's Vineyard crowd lecturing Latino Americans in border towns about the borders is one of the big reasons the Democrats are here today.
Don’t disagree.
What’s also eye opening is clearly many Latino voters are fine closing the door behind them once they’re here.

I guess the practical message is Dems can no longer count on automatic votes.
 
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It's not that hard to understand, unless you refuse to understand. Those who dismiss the border/illegal crisis live in towns and communities that they don't deal with any of the community and economic and crime fallout of illegal immigrants. That is, unless Desantis buses them in.

Guess who DOES live in communities that are being strained, having hardships, and experiencing economic and quality of life fallout from illegal Latino immigrants? Latino voters.

The Martha's Vineyard crowd lecturing Latino Americans in border towns about the borders is one of the big reasons the Democrats are here today.
I don't think Latino voters in PA live in communities that are struggling with hardships due to illegal Latino immigrants.
 
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It's not that hard to understand, unless you refuse to understand. Those who dismiss the border/illegal crisis live in towns and communities that they don't deal with any of the community and economic and crime fallout of illegal immigrants. That is, unless Desantis buses them in.

Guess who DOES live in communities that are being strained, having hardships, and experiencing economic and quality of life fallout from illegal Latino immigrants? Latino voters.

The Martha's Vineyard crowd lecturing Latino Americans in border towns about the borders is one of the big reasons the Democrats are here today.

I get a good laugh when people blindly group people together with a label like Latino. You're including multiple groups in your Latino label and many of them don't like the people coming over the boarder and certainly don't want to be under the same label. It doesn't have to be illegals causing hardship, there are going to be groups (from your Latino label) that don't like and even hate what coming over the boards because it reflects poorly on them.
 
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Sorry, confused: So was it Harris’ race and gender that was the problem, or that she was not a better candidate?
She was a bad candidate simply because her race and gender made it too easy for MAGA to reduce crossover despite Trumps’s insanity coupled with Latino and African American male votes increasing for Trump. Such a feat would have required a celebrity like status with massive charisma like an Oprah or Michele Obama or say a Beyoncé. And I know that sounds sad and crazy but it’s true. Country is not ready for a female minority president unless they have star power. We are on a path of both sides running unqualified celebrities for senate and president soon. It’s all entertainment now.
 
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It’s unconscionable to me that you think the fear came from Trump campaign. I can’t recall when Kamala was shot?
The only fear mongering and anger came from dems and how the sun wouldn’t rise if Trump was elected. No one bought the fear, Kamala’s hate speech every time she spoke, her non commitment answers, and her far left agenda. You stole democracy, ran on hate, and if failed. Your 60 posts a day are filled with anger and divisiveness. America doesn’t share your opinion! Take a break, spend time with your non-binary partner, and enjoy this beautiful sunrise!!
The MAGA Republicans play guys like this like a violin. It's all about the emotions and the resentments. As if ten point programs and "issues" have anything at all to do with how this guy votes.

Even when they win elections guys like this are spewing bile the next day.
 
Both?

I think she was a better candidate than Trump but clearly I’m outvoted there.

She is definitely not the best candidate the Dems could’ve put up but I don’t know if anyone else was a realistic option under the circumstances.
I don't think this election had anything to do with the candidate the Dems were going to put up against Trump. Didn't matter.

A majority of Americans chose the authoritarian strongman who's gonna fix everything easily and with no pain or complication.

Good luck to America with that.
 
The Harris campaign made plenty of mistakes but overall she just isn't a good politician with a weak message. They had all the money and the media in their pocket and still lost. It was the message.
Yeah, I totally 'get' why she became the nominee. The D's really didn't have any other practical choice. But the thing is, people seem to forget that she was like the first one out in the 2020 primary, was a less-than-one-term senator from a state that was essentially an echo chamber for its party, and didn't have to run in a primary. Like it or not, that's not exactly a scenario that gives confidence in an "iron sharpens iron" kind of way that you do in fact need in a presidential campaign. But I totally get why it worked that way, and I said, I really think she played the strategy fairly well.
 
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I don't think this election had anything to do with the candidate the Dems were going to put up against Trump. Didn't matter.

A majority of Americans chose the authoritarian strongman who's gonna fix everything easily and with no pain or complication.

Good luck to America with that.
You might be right.
 
The whole election is astounding and counterintuitive to me. Women, minorities, and immigrants were courted and included in the Democratic platform, but ultimately many chose to vote for the party that disparages many like them. I guess they believe Trump wasn't talking about them personally just bad actors within their community.
yeah, i haven't seen the 'full' cross tabs on this, but at one point last night somebody said that one of the "most important issues" in exit polls was "danger to democracy." Now I'd think almost anybody would think that's a d-friendly group of voters, but I could have sworn that last night i heard some commentator say that for some jurisdiction, that broke R. Again, maybe i misheard, but if that's correct, I guess it would mean that 'lawfare' was perceived to be real.

Beyond that, from what i heard, economy was #1/2, and abortion and immigration were materially behind the economy and democracy. That is a little stunning to me too. At a higher philosophical level, it raises future questions about strategies based on teh aggregate effects of microtargeting, versus strategies based on macrotargeting.
 
The democrats have to realize that Latino men are not going to vote for a black women. Even black men won't vote for a black women.
that's a possibility i suppose. perhaps next year's VA gubernatorial race will test that a bit.
 
Yeah, I totally 'get' why she became the nominee. The D's really didn't have any other practical choice. But the thing is, people seem to forget that she was like the first one out in the 2020 primary, was a less-than-one-term senator from a state that was essentially an echo chamber for its party, and didn't have to run in a primary. Like it or not, that's not exactly a scenario that gives confidence in an "iron sharpens iron" kind of way that you do in fact need in a presidential campaign. But I totally get why it worked that way, and I said, I really think she played the strategy fairly well.
Agree generally. They put out a back up QB that had never really won a big game.

I do however disagree that the party couldn't have done more to find a different option. That would have required them and the media to be honest about Biden's condition. They weren't going to do that until it became too late / obvious.
 
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yeah, i haven't seen the 'full' cross tabs on this, but at one point last night somebody said that one of the "most important issues" in exit polls was "danger to democracy." Now I'd think almost anybody would think that's a d-friendly group of voters, but I could have sworn that last night i heard some commentator say that for some jurisdiction, that broke R. Again, maybe i misheard, but if that's correct, I guess it would mean that 'lawfare' was perceived to be real.

Beyond that, from what i heard, economy was #1/2, and abortion and immigration were materially behind the economy and democracy. That is a little stunning to me too. At a higher philosophical level, it raises future questions about strategies based on teh aggregate effects of microtargeting, versus strategies based on macrotargeting.
The abortion thing is interesting. I was looking at Arizona, and their abortion amendment passed overwhelmingly but Trump was leading last I looked. Which suggests that people split their vote there and that abortion wasn’t the huge driver for Harris that the campaign was counting on.
 
that's a possibility i suppose. perhaps next year's VA gubernatorial race will test that a bit.

I'm going to take it further, very religious people won't vote for a women. And that can be any religion, Catholics, Jews, etc.
 
Most of the country does not share your view, you are in the minority. Even after an ass whoopin, which I told you would happen, you still double down with your stupid ass post. How do you plan on winning people over when you call them idiots, morons, cults, POS? You are the problem, your party is the problem and America has voted! Red Wave baby!!!!
Yes yes. If only we could be as nice and kind and gentle and calm and tolerant as Trump and the MAGA party, we would not be here.

Forgot that number 2 on the list for being a MAGA cult member, after playing the victim card, is complete lack of self awareness and hypocrisy.
 
Yeah, I totally 'get' why she became the nominee. The D's really didn't have any other practical choice. But the thing is, people seem to forget that she was like the first one out in the 2020 primary, was a less-than-one-term senator from a state that was essentially an echo chamber for its party, and didn't have to run in a primary. Like it or not, that's not exactly a scenario that gives confidence in an "iron sharpens iron" kind of way that you do in fact need in a presidential campaign. But I totally get why it worked that way, and I said, I really think she played the strategy fairly well.
I can't think of anything other that maybe a different VP that Harris could have handled better as a candidate. Maybe Sapiro would have delivered PA, but given the results of the election I don't think it would have won her the Presidency. Voters seem to want the "miracle" fixes Trump promises.
 
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My take....Covid response in 2020 was the reason Trump lost.

Then four years later, that shitty Covid response led to product shortages and the ensuing price gouging that flamed inflation and voters blamed the Party in the WH.

Two elections affected by Covid.
Voters rewarded the original culprit.
Ain't Merica great?
 
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I don't believe the issue is that Republicans won't vote for a female; it's that too many traditional Democratic voters won't turn out for a female candidate. That is the hard lesson we have to learn from this.
Didn't Hilary do pretty well though? Won't the popular vote by a good margin. As I've said since I first saw her in the 2020 primaries, Kamala is a lousy POTUS candidate. Boring, mediocre speaker, struggles to cultivate any sort of identity candidate. (granted, not a lot of time in 2024)
 
Didn't Hilary do pretty well though? Won't the popular vote by a good margin. As I've said since I first saw her in the 2020 primaries, Kamala is a lousy POTUS candidate. Boring, mediocre speaker, struggles to cultivate any sort of identity candidate. (granted, not a lot of time in 2024)
Which Dem do you think could have beaten Trump this time?
 
Yes yes. If only we could be as nice and kind and gentle and calm and tolerant as Trump and the MAGA party, we would not be here.

Forgot that number 2 on the list for being a MAGA cult member, after playing the victim card, is complete lack of self awareness and hypocrisy.
FSU football > Kamala
Think on it. Enjoy this beautiful day!
 
The threat Trump poses is way too abstract a notion for most Americans and can't easily be distilled down into a 30 second ad.
The average voter isn't engaged at all. They are mostly just voting based on a general feeling or concept, but a lot of the issues that drive engaged voters. The kind of people that post on HBOT don't even register for large segment of people entering the voting booth. That is why Trump's fifth grade communication approach is effective electorally. There are engaged voters who want nuance and policy but they are the minority.
 
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