Well, my hopes of breaking the 15 year drought are diminishing.

[ff141]

Let's agree to disagree before the name calling escalates.

Let's agree to disagree before the name calling escalates.

Listen. My issue with your take is your trying to equate their careers with percentages when Z got fired because things were getting worse. How would it look if he went 9 more years. It makes the stats not as relevant. I was questioning why this is the comparison hence the dropped on your head comment. Which was a joke. 👊🏽. You’re a respected poster. I didn’t even call u a name. But if I did….moran for sure.😉

My original post was to point out the differences between the twos careers as to why I don’t think the AD s going to call Brands onto the carpet. At the end Z had dual losses of 4,4,3,4,5. Last two big tens 4,6. NCAA. 4,8,2,7,4. They felt it wasn’t getting better and there were options to improve.
In my opinion the current staff hasn’t had these lows. Recruiting is on the uptick. Carver is packed. Donor money flowing in. There is no clear option that gets Iowa over the top right now and they’re under contract for what till 2029? Not to say I don’t hope for changes!

If you disagree. Fair enough.

 

[Ladell-hawk]

only my opinion…i think CS would of had similar success at ISU. When it comes down to it with recruiting, from a parent and as a young recruit, compare recruiting process between TT and CS. You can just see it in the difference between character and personality in interviews, bench/corner persona, professionalism…etc when sitting infront of a parent and athlete. Also CS builds a positive no drama culture. Dont think tt is on same level.

I know here in hawkland we love the intensity of tt. They certainly care and have a passion to develop the program at its highest level and grow the sport, but I think nationwide outside of Iowa the image that they perceive themselves in front of the media and in the corners is not a good look. I think athletes and parents and high school coaches. See a big difference there. I think that’s the biggest reasonCS captures top talent.

I’ll give you the fact that he’s in the middle of the hot bed of wrestling in this era. But I would also argue that one TNT got started the hot bed of Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Oklahoma. We’re very close.

He’s built a machine out there because of his wrestling expertise his coaching staff that he alone has developed and hired along with attracting top talent.

I just don’t see how we dig out of that advantage that they have now without TNT completely changing there personalities and training, structure or new leadership and start from scratch.

I was an athlete that was recruited. And I’ve also had children highly recruited so I’m coming from the perspective of an athlete and a parent that is sat in all those meetings.

Highly unlikely.

 

[CMMG Banshee]

PSU is a red herring. Take out PSU and Tom only wins 2 more titles, giving him 6 in 18 years, for the same 0.33 percentage as JZ.

The other stats stay the same.

You can't win titles scoring 70 and 80 points.

Unless you're implying that without Cael, PSU's best recruits would've gone to Iowa instead, thereby boosting Tom's stats? Okay, it's a theory, and not a bad one (e.g., Nolf). If you like, put asterisks next to Tom's stats, noting *These stats would be better if Nolf and Brooks and Retherford had wrestled for Iowa. I agree.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the stats are the stats.

I honestly think that if Sanderson was at Iowa State he would get some of the same recruits that he did get however I would get many of those people also. So I think brands would have a better coaching record and what we would see in general they wouldn't be that one big dominant team.

I think Sanderson needed Penn State and Pennsylvania as a location to succeed. When Gable went to Iowa which was if I'm not mistaken in 1975, that was hot on the heels of his gold medal run and he was an Iowa State wrestler. Demographics were a little bit different back then because Penn State wasn't as high of a level of some of those other Midwestern schools. And until gable really cornered the market if I'm not mistaken the recruits were spread around a little bit more .

And honestly when Gable was coach everybody else was a notch or two down. He was an extreme difference maker.

 

[CMMG Banshee]

Yes, easy to be impressed with Caliendo's adjustments from the dual. Now it will be interesting to see if TnT and Caliendo can make more adjustments to pull off the upset. Or will Cael and Mitchell adjust and win more comfortably?

I think Mesenbrink is just at a different level and if he wasn't wrestling this year Caliendo would be the champ at 165 rather easily. It's like Kerklivet and Stevenson. It wasn't as bad as it could've been, but I believe Stevenson went a little easy on him. There's just that gap.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

I'll say this, every other team in the country hopes we keep M#, Big Bob and Dennis. Not to mention 2 mid 50's coaches that are the same size that run all the studs off after they are done wrestling. We won't get dramatically better until Tom upgrades our assistants and the HWC.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I think Mesenbrink is just at a different level and if he wasn't wrestling this year Caliendo would be the champ at 165 rather easily. It's like Kerklivet and Stevenson. It wasn't as bad as it could've been, but I believe Stevenson went a little easy on him. There's just that gap.

Gable absolutely went easy on Kerk

 

[Pennstate1985]

Yes, easy to be impressed with Caliendo's adjustments from the dual. Now it will be interesting to see if TnT and Caliendo can make more adjustments to pull off the upset. Or will Cael and Mitchell adjust and win more comfortably?

Caliendo needs to make adjustments because you know Cael and MM will.

 

[Sandor45]

Let’s not forget that “this PSU” was developed entirely during Tom’s watch. He lost the recruiting game, lost the RTC game, and others. 100% on his watch.

This

 

[Sandor45]

Everybody remembers the story were Brands made the overnight trip to PA to get Kemerer.
That was pivotal.
But my question now is how did it come to needing to do that to a guy that dreamed of going to Iowa since he was a kid.
What other recruiting mishap cost us that we don’t know about?

I think the point of no return happened when we lost Nolf and Zain to psu.
Spencer alone was never going to get us fully back. At that point Cael has fortified his wrestling club too much.
Now kids have posters of Bryce Jordan center and Aaron brooks on their walls.
It will take a monumental shift to turn the tides and I don’t see that happening u til Cael retires.

 

[johnyt9]

Gable absolutely went easy on Kerk

I mean he didn't pick him up and toss him out of bounds if that what you mean

 

[CMMG Banshee]

Gable absolutely went easy on Kerk

Definitely. I'm not saying Messenbrink did on caliendo of course. I just think there's a gap. I heard some pundit suggest he should wrestle that type of match to have a shot.

And the guy was right. IMO if messenbrink was in a different class caliendo would easily win the whole thing.

 

[CMMG Banshee]

That’s irrelevant. Everybody then had the same rules and everybody now does also. Both Groups had equal footing. If the tranfer portal wasn’t here now they would have recruited differently.

It's very relevant. PSU is now coached by an all time great right up there with gable. PSU is in the best recruiting area in the country and the flagship university in the best state for recruiting in the country,

The only difference is an all time great coach.

 

[CMMG Banshee]

Zalesky also didn't have the current transfer rules to work with. It goes both ways.

And NIL. That would've been huge for him back then. Imagine if you're a title winning coach at an iconic wrestling university, just what could you do with booster money or you could bring in a few stop gaps. Or even get a guy for 2 to 3 more years?

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Without Covid, I think TNT's numbers, titles, etc. would look a bit better.

That skewed things a bit.

 

[texas twister]

15 years without an upper weight champion and TB hasn't realized that there is a problem with his upper weight coaching staff yet? This is like Captain Kirk not realizing that Boy Wonder sucked at OC.

 

[TarpHawk]

Without Covid, I think TNT's numbers, titles, etc. would look a bit better.

That skewed things a bit.

Yes. We'd have another title. And it would boost the other averages slightly as well.

 

[AFHawk86]

Yes. We'd have another title. And it would boost the other averages slightly as well.

…but not enough to satisfy the cesspool.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

…but not enough to satisfy the cesspool.

Never enough.

 

[LIV4GOD]

The drought is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!