What if?
- Thread starter amahawk
- Start date
You made my point...this staff has a backup OLineman that was a lightly recruited defensive lineman.
Finally people will be forced to acknowledge that KF is the common thread to our offensive incompetence and tell him it's time to move on. Firing BF was just a step to getting rid of KF, which is needed.
The offense might not be good this year. I think that the OL will be okay. There was nothing about the scheme last season that could punish an opposing defense for stacking the box. So opposing defenses did, and the OL was always losing the numbers game. I think that TE and RB are good for next year. To me it comes down to WR and QB, but especially WR. I don't know how much of the issue was lack of talent and how much was scheme. The offense will be bad if the WR can't get open and catch the ball. At QB, Lainez has to surpass Deacon Hill on the depth chart. McNamara and Lainez will work at QB. If we have enough creativity to prevent opponents from stacking the box without any consequences, I will take that for 2024.
That's because you don't read everyone's posts...........Hope that helps you going forward. 🫠
Then little doubt will be left on who the common denominator is.
In all seriousness, I don't think anyone is expecting a huge turnaround in the offense in the next year or two. I think what fans would like is to be at least above national embarrassment level, which is where Iowa has been on offense for 3 seasons now, and which might actually result in a win against a high quality team for the first time since '19.
So let me ask you a question. Fran has made the tournament 4 years in a row, maybe 5, had a couple of 1st team all american's in Luka and Keegan ( or at least 2nd) and overall been pretty darn successful. But he's at the point where basically everyone has given up on him and the team. And I'm not saying that's right or wrong but that's just how it is. Fran has won w/outstanding offense and basically no defense. Kirk is now winning ( the West) w/a great defense and no offense. And I mean bottom of the entire country offense. Is it that football is more popular in general that Kirk gets a pass for this? Because honestly the last few years have been embarrassing on one side of the ball. Clearly Fran is at the point of apathy from the fans. I think football people just love the 7-8 Saturdays, tailgating, game day atmosphere in general. This season was honestly awful. Did we win some games? Sure. But in the 3 legitimate games we played, Penn ST. Michigan and a pretty mediocre Tennessee team we got absolutely boat raced.
A few reasons for this, some of which you touched on.
1) Football is the more popular sport at Iowa, and the game experience is just as important (if not more) to some people than game results, so they're less likely to criticize the football coach, period.
2) KF has a much better body of work over a longer period of time than FM, and although he has disillusioned a lot of fans with the BF fiasco, he has enough clout that he still has a heck of a lot of support, which he has earned.
3) Regular season is more important in FB than BB, and the postseason is where all the focus is on in BB. KF has had a heck of a lot of good regular seasons, and FM has been an abject failure when it comes to the postseason.
If you think this season was awful then you are either 10 years old, or entirely myopic. I am not advocating for a continuation, but Iowa playing for the big ten championship is not a common event. There have been many worse seasons under Kirk's campaign. 2007 is a prime example of dropping a game to Western Michigan as the finale with a highly touted Christensen at the helm.
Iowa has 2 key positions hires coming up, if they are ever filled, and need to drastically improve the line, and have already made strides in that category by adding a bookend LT. It would be nice to garner a QB, but I'll wait to withhold judgement on that until after the spring portal has ended.
With all of this said, the defense that Iowa is returning should make them competitive in every game this year. The skill positions on the offensive side of the ball are as deep as they have been in recent memory.
Kirk has been given no passes. For one, his OC got fired. And the negativity in the fan base is far more deafening for football than basketball; although it's getting louder in basketball.
What people value comes into play. Obviously you value offense in football. No, this team was not awful or embarrassing. But if you're going to say that it was, wouldn't Fran's lack of defense be just as embarrassing? To me it's worse than the lack of O in football. Fran is completely negligent when it comes to defense. Not the case with Kirk on offense; he's just run into a couple of bad years.
You cite Fran's successful record but you minimize Kirk's. You cite Fran's all-Americans but do not mention Kirk's. Clearly offense in football is what's on your mind and your entire perspective is built around that.
It should also be mentioned that there are times in football when being conservative on offense and deferring to your defense is something that's done to affect winning. That's why teams have punted the ball on 4th down for 150 years. This dynamic does not exist in basketball. Having bad defense never can help you win. This is one way in which the bad offense in football has been blown completely out of proportion by fans and media
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Both programs are following the same routine and path to me.
They do just enough to keep you interested (tho bball program is dropping interest faster than football), only to find the most frustrating manner to tear your heart out.
Fran has had loads of talent on his teams and nothing to show for it in terms of team success in the tourney. Because he can’t teach defense and seems to struggle with basic substitutions and coaching. The team can be a little more exciting to watch when they’re shooting is on. It’s the other team shoots lights out too
Kirk’s team is the opposite of this. His teams have also wasted talent and elite defenses because the offense has been the worst in college football history. His teams will struggle against the worst in the conference yet somehow pull out the W. Then get completely embarrassed when faced with a team that has a pulse. Frans defense coaching is lacking, but it’s no where near the laughingstock that Kirk/Brians offense has become.
Both programs are stale. Football gets a pass i think because it’s not played in the heart of winter and easier for tailgating and making the games an event. Basketball is kinda get in and out with your ice cream cone
I would be perfectly happy to see both coaches leave.
Well that's hilarious. Graduated in the 80's by the way. Was a kid during the bleak years, so honestly while bad that was a whole different era. If you can't see that playing for the Big Ten championship on the West side vs from the East side I don't know what to tell you. The top 3 in the East were so much better than the West it wasn't funny. Kudos to us for making it but I think anyone not an Iowa fan realized we had absolutely zero chance of winning that game. Your last sentence of us being as deep at the skill positions have me really puzzled. As far as I can see we have 2 wide receivers returning who actually caught a pass last year. 2. We've had the worst receiving corps in the Big Ten and probably Power 5 schools for 2 years now. And yes, our defense is outstanding. But it is one side of the ball. 2 sides are needed to play football nowadays.
this is a straw man argument, but has zero to do with the topic at hand in the 2024 season. We are still waiting on an OC/QB/WR coach. I will withhold judgement until I see the first few games on the offensive side of the ball.
With regards to the offensive positional talent: Iowa will have one of, if not the best TE core yet again. Depth at the RB position has been a consistent issue with Ferentz, that is not a problem. Brown absolutely showed flashes under Brian's offense, so I'd say he's more than capable. Wetjen has the potential, and Anderson in the right offense is the deep threat.
I will absolutely state that a transfer at WR would be more than beneficial, and I would really like another QB transfer. However, there is currently only one team on the schedule that appears like an L. Call me crazy, but OSU's offensive line was nothing to be impressed by last year.
Kirk's offense is worst in nation and was often mentoned by national pundits as a subject of ridicule. If it wasn't getting embarrassing to Kirk and the program then I have to question how that was the case. I know if I were the subject of that, it would bother me to no end and keep me up nights searching out ways to fix it.
To suggest that running the worst offense in all of football over the last three years while making no staffing changes on that side of the ball doesn't illustrate at a minimum incompetence if not negligence is to ignore reality.
With respect to Fran's defense, it is frustratingly bad. It is nowhere near worst in nation by any metric I can find. He obviously is an offensive guy who finds players that fit the mold of what he wants to do. He is not able to regularly recruit players that fit that mold and are quick and athletic enough to play sound man to man defense. Fran has been unable to consistently land players that are effective on both ends of the court or to coach them into being a good or even average P5 defensive unit. That's pretty much a given.
The difference between basketball and football is that basketball players have to play both ways. Football players do not. They are completely separate units with no tradeoffs necessary with respect to attributes or practice emphasis. Kirk's offensive staff doesn't have that restriction of time and talent. They own those players outright. No consideration needs to be given to whether a recruit is effective on the other side of the ball. No practice time needs to be allocated towards defensive skills. People arguing that an improved football offense would necessitate a downturn in the defense make little or no sense. In fact, the opposite is true. The only positive impact that the offense has on the defense is the ability to complement the defense by consuming time and moving the ball downfield, which the Iowa offense has failed miserably at over the last several years.
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Brian’s impact on the offense will be felt for a couple of seasons. Improvement will be seen on paper, not additional wins imo. Phil will carry Kirk again, and again
I would also add, people don't have unlimited income and a lot of them are puttying their money toward watching Caitlin Clark and the women's team instead. Some of that could be the apathy toward Fran but also think it's just people realizing this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to watch her play right now. A lot of people gave up their men's tickets to get women's instead, which I think a lot will go back to the men's game when she goes to the WNBA.
I am all for Biden but I took what he said more likely as a joke because we always blame the incumbent, whatever incumbent, even if in Biden's case he is doing a really good job and has eliminated the chaos.
There is a lot of KirkF apathy and wanting a tough look at him as head coach in this next two seasons. Personnally, naw aint going to say it as I have been saying in for awhile abouit the offense.
Not the wide receiver skill position group. We have a couple of slightly proven good athletes in Kaleb and Seth. Bostick hasnt been healthy. Maybe Wick and Wetjen can turn into a pro-like slot receiver like an Amendola etc
Im just asking it to crack the top 100 this next year which shouldn't be much to ask for.
Build on that for year two and try to get it up to 80th or so.
Build on that for year two and try to get it up to 80th or so.
Wetjen in the slot is mission 1 for new oc. Still cant believe he wasnt used this year.
I hope they bring in a legitimate WR coach. I also hope we don't have to rely on Wick for anything at this point. Wetjen is going to be a beast in the return game.
@littlez comment about the West Div winners, Iowa too, getting throttled by the East is not a straw man argument as you might see it totally play out this coming fall. with 18 teams and no divisions I project OSU, Mich, PSU, Ore, probably as a top 4 and maybe Wisky starts to play better along with USC. It will be super hard for Iowa to crack the top 4.
Yes we have really good TEnds. I agree Brown showed some flashes but he also has a tendency to have bad hand positioning catching balls which will lead to more drops. I think SethA can be a very good receiver and have been excited about him since I saw his video from his previous school. But you can say we have a strong WR group when Wetjen, Wick and Bostick have almost no catches.
the topic at hand was if the offense this year, bringing up last years season is exactly that, a straw man argument (no one here is making that argument). Iowa will have a new OC, likely a different QB, a 5* LT. To make the statement that the offense will look the same is laughable. Also take a look again at next years schedule.
Wetjen's speed should put him ahead of Wick but in 2022 Wick did a good job or running some short, sort of skinny posts for a few good grabs. He is the kind of receiver you might need at some time, just a good route running guy with good hands
I guess I don't see those "good hands." He is young, and he put on a show when he was in high school especially in the state championship game, but I'm not sold on Wick as a playmaker at Iowa.
I agree with you and yeah, football is definitely the bread and butter here and gets treated differently. I think Iowa used to have fervor with basketball but that's long since dissipated when compared to the mid 90's and earlier. Truthfully, I don't know the answer but I feel basketball has less leeway than football at Iowa. Could be any reason why there's a difference. I think a lot of football fans are afraid of Iowa football following suite of the basketball program by incorporating change. We went through some bad years in basketball and it still hasn't really recovered. That might be why Iowa fans have trepidation for change in football. Just a guess and it varies from fan to fan obviously.
I also feel like college basketball teams can be upgraded far quicker or instantaneously when compared to football and the fact it doesn't happen in basketball for us might be turning off fans too. One star transfer player changes a lot more than one star football player. Fran doesn't completely deserve the scrutiny he gets in my opinion but he has hit a very obvious ceiling whereas KF is performing better than ever over a five year span despite the offensive woes (and yes, we all know why). Who knows though, I would love for Iowa basketball to return to it's former glory but I don't see it happening with Fran. KF is closer than Fran is to winning at a high level based on history as weird as that is to say because KF is absolutely limited too.
I’m not sold on anyone being a playmaker after the last 3 years. Until it happens on the actual field we have nothing that says we have any receivers or honestly a quarterback that can make plays for an entire season. We’re 1 play away from having Deacon back there again, the worst QB in D1 football. Being hopeful is great but results matter at some point. Which is why Brian got fired.
Luke Lachey will be a playmaker, if you would like to argue that, then go for it. It is quite the reach to state that Deacon will be the back up at this point, and if Cade were ever healthy again, 2021 will tell you that he is a more than capable qb. With the defense Iowa has coming back this year, there isn't a giant need to be "hopefull" this will be a successful campaign, it is just yet to be determined if it will be a special type of season.
That is an interesting way to phrase "I've been eviscerated."
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