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What if

HWKEYZ23 said:
Why? Just because you have a good offense doesnt mean your defense has to suck. It doesnt have to be an either/or situation. That being said, dont want a spread offense but do want to open things up quite bit and stop being so conservative
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This... Hayden opened it up when he had the players. What's the difference if you go 3 & out with a passing offense v. running it up the gut 3 times? Yes, possible INT's, but if eliminate the TO's you still punt it away on 4th down.
 
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eyesofhawk said:
Iowa has very little margin for error everywhere. They have a formula that works for the defense. Any type of change to the formula at a program level, will almost certainly at least marginally compromise the D. I don't think Iowa can afford that.

Iowa suffered from less emphasis on the D this season. Emphasis had to be put on installing a new offense. I guarantee the D had to make some concessions along the way, most likely in practice structure, to try to make that happen. Even in team whole team settings, I'm sure the defense got the least attention/emphasis it's gotten in years.

Bama/OSU. Both with a history of dominant to stingy defenses. Both D's went to trash the moment they switched to spread offense and adopted an offensive identity. The defenses have now recovered some at both programs. But not back to their previous dominance. How in the heck does that happen at programs with the best players, coaches, resources? Spread.

And Iowa's D is supposed to somehow be able to survive a switch to spread? 100% the D would be compromised. Iowa has a good D because that's how the program is built. If Iowa had to change their recruiting strategies/allotment of resources, it would compromise the D. For example, rather than having to fight to recruit a bunch of WR's, Iowa can get a less sought after TE to develop, and commit resources recruiting higher end defensive players.

Also, the spread would compromise the building of Iowa's D on a daily basis in practice. Iowa reps a lot of 1's vs 1's. The D would lose way too many reps needed to build its base defense by having to defend the spread every day. That's why a program's offensive and defensive philosophies and schemes should be married.

For example, that's part of why Iowa basketball hasn't been great at defending the pick-and-roll over the years. They run it on offense more now with Harding, especially given his chemistry with Freeman. But over the years Iowa's motion offense has used very little pick-and-roll, so it never got defended in live action at practice.

Really, the repercussions of spread would be endless. That's because football has to not only be complimentary on the field but in every aspect of the program. Especially at a place like Iowa, that has no margin for error as a program, does the formula all have to fit together. I just don't see any way a change that drastic to the offense wouldn't in some way take away from the D.

Not to mention the in-game effect and the fact that KF has said throwing the ball around makes it harder on the defense and harder to win
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I think Phil Parker would disagree.
 
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eyesofhawk said:
1. I said a spread offense would hurt the D and you asked why. So my response is completely relevant to your question.

2. The margin for error I was referring to was on a program level. If you have little.margin for error, and an already functional formula, it's clearly risky to mess with the formula.

As far as margin for error on the field, I don't see how scoring more points and giving up more points helps anything. Iowa plays close games, but they are able to control them and impose themselves. That's what gives you the best and most consistent chance of winning. It doesn't matter if it's only by a few points, that's the nature of lower scoring games.

The game is a little different now at the NFL level. You don't really see the dominant defenses anymore. But there's a reason why across many sports you've always heard that defense wins championships. It's easier to be consistent at and impose your will with than a bunch of high degree of difficulty pass plays where the ball is constantly hitting the ground.

3. If you didn't notice a huge difference in the Bama/OSU defenses when they went spread, I don't know what to tell you. Literally lost their dominance over night, although I do think both were running more no-huddle as well, initially
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Iowa had almost all the same players in 2024 as they did in 2023 minus DeJean. And PP emphasis D the same every year. Sometimes teams offenses scheme better. DeJean took away half the field on passing downs. Iowa didn't have that guy this year. That was a big difference. Nothing to do with "emphasizing" defense and more or any less.
 
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HWKEYZ23 said:
I think you are discounting Logan Lee and Joe Evans. Those two were great. And CDJ3 covered for many issues cause you could eliminate one side of the field. Thats fine for a game or two but not a season.

Dont know if true but at one point I had read that Wallace had taken over more of the defensive responsibility from PP and if that is true then maybe that partly has some blame
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Cooper was clearly a rare level.

Lee and Evans were damn good, no doubt. But Iowa has been reloading from that level of loss for decades.

Sure Cooper could cover for a few issues with his ability to own his side. I'm not sure those issues existed though. Yes, DeShaun only filled in for a few games. But the defense never missed a beat until Tennessee, and I think that scenario went way beyond Lee. Michigan won the Gnat and wasn't able to exploit the loss of Coop. I believe Iowa held Michigan to their least yardage in 5 years in that game.

If true about Wallace, then totally a legitimate point. Continuity in football is infinitely underrated
 
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eyesofhawk said:
Cooper was clearly a rare level.

Lee and Evans were damn good, no doubt. But Iowa has been reloading from that level of loss for decades.

Sure Cooper could cover for a few issues with his ability to own his side. I'm not sure those issues existed though. Yes, DeShaun only filled in for a few games. But the defense never missed a beat until Tennessee, and I think that scenario went way beyond Lee. Michigan won the Gnat and wasn't able to exploit the loss of Coop. I believe Iowa held Michigan to their least yardage in 5 years in that game.

If true about Wallace, then totally a legitimate point. Continuity in football is infinitely underrated
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Well, I will concede we closed the gap on our differences a bit so thats fair. I dont think our current DL is at the same level as it was with Lee/Evans and Coop covered up a lot of issues and that showed in the speed of Tenn. We have some good pieces but a few small gaps I’d love to shore up.

Again, not sure if the Wallace rumors are true but did hear about that earlier in the yr
 
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HWKEYZ23 said:
If you are talking in terms of PPG they give up, sure but not by overall rank and championships. They won with and without the spread offense. Even Saban has said that his D’s were comparable but that they had to play more snaps so stats wise it made a difference but he knew the game was moving in that direction so he had to adapt. We dont and therefore we dont compete at the highest levels
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This is not true.

Bama went spread in 2018 and their D dropped to 16th after being ranked 1st, 1st, and 2nd the previous 3 seasons. Again, that's hard to do with the best players, coaches, facilities, and resources in the country. But not when you switch to spread.

Since that switch, Bama won 1 Gnat in 6 years under Saban, and that was the COVID season. Before the switch, 5 Gnats in 9 years.

Sure, Bama has remained an elite program. But their level of dominance as a program and certainly as a D has dropped.

Even if the gain in offense made up for the drop in D at Bama, which it didn't, that's not the point. A change in offense that drastic at Iowa would undeniably compromise the defense. Can Iowa afford that? To me, there is much suggesting, including this season, that Iowa cannot afford a dip to its defense
 
eyesofhawk said:
This is not true.

Bama went spread in 2018 and their D dropped to 16th after being ranked 1st, 1st, and 2nd the previous 3 seasons. Again, that's hard to do with the best players, coaches, facilities, and resources in the country. But not when you switch to spread.

Since that switch, Bama won 1 Gnat in 6 years under Saban, and that was the COVID season. Before the switch, 5 Gnats in 9 years.

Sure, Bama has remained an elite program. But their level of dominance as a program and certainly as a D has dropped.

Even if the gain in offense made up for the drop in D at Bama, which it didn't, that's not the point. A change in offense that drastic at Iowa would undeniably compromise the defense. Can Iowa afford that? To me, there is much suggesting, including this season, that Iowa cannot afford a dip to its defense
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They didnt switch in 2018….
 
eyesofhawk said:
This is not true.

Bama went spread in 2018 and their D dropped to 16th after being ranked 1st, 1st, and 2nd the previous 3 seasons. Again, that's hard to do with the best players, coaches, facilities, and resources in the country. But not when you switch to spread.

Since that switch, Bama won 1 Gnat in 6 years under Saban, and that was the COVID season. Before the switch, 5 Gnats in 9 years.

Sure, Bama has remained an elite program. But their level of dominance as a program and certainly as a D has dropped.

Even if the gain in offense made up for the drop in D at Bama, which it didn't, that's not the point. A change in offense that drastic at Iowa would undeniably compromise the defense. Can Iowa afford that? To me, there is much suggesting, including this season, that Iowa cannot afford a dip to its defense
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Also, they didnt drop any lower than 18th which was still 20ppg and pretty dominate. In that time, their O increased.
 
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grayhair81 said:
I can explain the dropoff in defense pretty easily.

1) they were not able to put a second corner on the field that was capable of playing at a high level. The myth of Phil being able to coach anyone into an NFL player got exploded.

2) safety play was subpar. Schulte was a liability most of the season. He was always a marginal D1 player and teams have five years of film on him to plan with. That is a recurring theme across the defense.

3) no ability to create any pressure on the QB from the front four, especially from the interior players. I thought Graves would be a monster. That has not happened. Black is a space eater-nothing more. Maybe an UFA.

4) Higgins has had a great career because he is a great student of the game and a great competitor. He lacks elite athletic ability and again, teams have a lot of film to plan for him.

And the biggest reason is the 23 defense wasn't elite. PSU and Tennessee toyed with them. They were very good but not elite. This year they were good at best.
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1. Again, DeShaun Lee never really got exploited last season and the D was still fabulous with him until the Tennessee game, which went way beyond him.

I will give you that it took a while for PP to settle on DLee this season. Given that PP knows more than we do, it's possible that DLee was a bit of a weak link.

2. No, it doesn't take coaches 5 years to figure out how to exploit what's on film. And everything that's within the past couple years of film on Quinn was on film his first year playing. As a matter of fact, his film has gradually looked better, as he has improved as a player, over each year. This one made me laugh out loud a little bit.

3. Yes, less pressure on the QB this season. Less depth there this season perhaps a contributor. Although Iowa rushes to contain the QB in the pocket far more than people realize, it's a valid point you make.

Also, Iowa blitzed very little this season. That's typical for Iowa. But Iowa did blitz much more last season, and those are the two defenses being compared. Perhaps PP not as confident blitzing without Coop back there. I also think the overall complimentary approach Iowa employs could have played a roll. For example, with an expectation that the offense will put up more points, the staff may not have been willing to take the risk of blitzing as often. Last season they had to take that risk, and were money with their blitzes. The return to more conservative D this season may not have panned out quite as planned.

4. More laughable than #2. Again, coaches have had plenty of tape on Jay for a long time. And didn't he end up an All-american this season?

5. So the biggest reason this season's D wasn't as good as last year's is because last year's wasn't as good as most have made it out to be? First, that's a really weak point, if one at all.

Second, Iowa's D was elite last season. They gave up 4.1 yards/play. They held the national champions to their least yardage in 5 years.

PSU wasn't a good game, but there was also the rest of the season to judge the D by.

And Tennessee, although the D clearly got beat badly that day, it almost felt like a throwaway day, due to a few unique factors. The main one being that Iowa hadn't faced the no-huddle all season. The no-huddle is something that's thrown Iowa off a bit in the past. But after seeing it a little bit, was something that Iowa has been able to get a better handle on in the past. Again, Iowa never had the chance to adjust to having already seen it last season. Tennessee's tempo clearly got the best of the Iowa D. Iowa also had no tape on a very talented opposing QB. The deceptive speed on his 6'6" stride was something Iowa was never able to get a feel for. How often to your see Iowa ever give up the edge on its D? Almost never. It happened multiple times that game. Throw in a potential lack of rhythm from not having played in a few weeks, and I think you have a few factors that contributed to some timing issues for the D.

Iowa is a D that tries to get their teeth into you. Once they do that, and are able to feel you, they know how to take certain things away, and basically squeeze the air out of you. Iowa's D was just never able to get a bead on Tennessee to be able to feel and get their teeth into them.

Anyway, I would guess less team emphasis on the D, and less blitzing were what contributed to the dropoff in D this year. And I would have to guess the situation at corner, too Even though losing Coop didn't necessarily surface as a problem last season, he was clearly a difference-maker level player, and there were clearly struggles at the position this season
 
HWKEYZ23 said:
So we are worried about wording semantics now?? Jesus….it’s cool. We’ll agree to disagree cause we’ll never see eye to eye. You are ok with status quo and I’m not
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What are you not ok with?

To expect any higher level of consistent success from the program would put Iowa in blue blood territory. It's great to keep your standards high. But if you have that high of expectations everywhere in your life, you're probably disappointed quite often.

Iowa is consistently good, with a chance to do something special every handful of years. I don't know what else you can expect. The only reason higher expectations are even somewhat realistic is because of the level of success that KF has established at the program.

It should also be mentioned that people have often assumed me to be ok with things that I can at least see reason to be questioned. No, I don't have a problem with the clip Iowa wins at. But my main point is usually that the level of negativity expressed about these things is not warranted. Even if there's validity to your concerns, those concerns don't even get tabled until Iowa's had a couple seasons of 6 or 7 wins
 
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HWKEYZ23 said:
Why? Just because you have a good offense doesnt mean your defense has to suck. It doesnt have to be an either/or situation. That being said, dont want a spread offense but do want to open things up quite bit and stop being so conservative
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Play good defense AND good offense? Crazy, I can’t believe more programs aren’t trying to do that?

We’ve seen a number of teams play their own offense pretty conservatively because they know the only way they’d give up points to us is to give up a short field. The defense has been solid for a long time but some of the credit has to go to the opposition playing not to gift us the ball.
 
HWKEYZ23 said:
They didnt switch in 2018….
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Yes, it was more of a gradual thing over a few years.

I think '18 took on full concepts and commitment and most notably no-huddle.

There's just no way for defense to be who you are when you're running no-huddle.

And there's no way to be as good at defense when is isn't who you are
 
BeepBeepInMyJeep said:
Play good defense AND good offense? Crazy, I can’t believe more programs aren’t trying to do that?

We’ve seen a number of teams play their own offense pretty conservatively because they know the only way they’d give up points to us is to give up a short field. The defense has been solid for a long time but some of the credit has to go to the opposition playing not to gift us the ball.
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Over the past 5 yrs, we certainly havent looked like we are trying to play good offense and we definitely havent
 
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eyesofhawk said:
What are you not ok with?

To expect any higher level of consistent success from the program would put Iowa in blue blood territory. It's great to keep your standards high. But if you have that high of expectations everywhere in your life, you're probably disappointed quite often.

Iowa is consistently good, with a chance to do something special every handful of years. I don't know what else you can expect. The only reason higher expectations are even somewhat realistic is because of the level of success that KF has established at the program.

It should also be mentioned that people have often assumed me to be ok with things that I can at least see reason to be questioned. No, I don't have a problem with the clip Iowa wins at. But my main point is usually that the level of negativity expressed about these things is not warranted. Even if there's validity to your concerns, those concerns don't even get tabled until Iowa's had a couple seasons of 6 or 7 wins
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Luckily for KF we were in one of if not the worst divisions in college football. That has masked a lot of the issues the program has had.
 
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Hawqize said:
Watching Washington State play in Holiday Bowl. I’ve been a part time fan for 25 years. WHAT IF when KF retires we got a coach that wanted to play this wide open, fast pace offense? Would the Iowa fans embrace it (assuming we had a passable defense and didn’t lose games 45-42)? I know it’s not traditional B1G offense, but it would be a refreshing experiment, even if it failed.
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Ray Nagel.
 
HWKEYZ23 said:
Over the past 5 yrs, we certainly havent looked like we are trying to play good offense and we definitely havent
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How is 28 points per game not trying to play good offense?

Beat #2 PSU in '21. Don't think Iowa was trying to play good offense then?
 
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eyesofhawk said:
Yes, it was more of a gradual thing over a few years.

I think '18 took on full concepts and commitment and most notably no-huddle.

There's just no way for defense to be who you are when you're running no-huddle.

And there's no way to be as good at defense when is isn't who you are
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It was before 2018
 
eyesofhawk said:
How is 28 points per game not trying to play good offense?

Beat #2 PSU in '21. Don't think Iowa was trying to play good offense then?
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It was ok this yr but still not great. Thankfully KJ was a beast this yr. Had it not been for him, it would have been ugly. We were 1 of 3 programs in the top 100 scoring offenses that averaged less than 1 passing TD per game.

You realize that PSU team was garbage right? They went 7-6. They were stupidly overrated
 
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eyesofhawk said:
This is not true.

Bama went spread in 2018 and their D dropped to 16th after being ranked 1st, 1st, and 2nd the previous 3 seasons. Again, that's hard to do with the best players, coaches, facilities, and resources in the country. But not when you switch to spread.

Since that switch, Bama won 1 Gnat in 6 years under Saban, and that was the COVID season. Before the switch, 5 Gnats in 9 years.

Sure, Bama has remained an elite program. But their level of dominance as a program and certainly as a D has dropped.

Even if the gain in offense made up for the drop in D at Bama, which it didn't, that's not the point. A change in offense that drastic at Iowa would undeniably compromise the defense. Can Iowa afford that? To me, there is much suggesting, including this season, that Iowa cannot afford a dip to its defense
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how could it impact the D any more than the last 2 yrs of BF offense--we were only running like 30-35 plays agame against good teams meaning the D was on the field a lot--look at the difference in time of possession in a lot of those games.
Just amazing Phil and KF could overcome such bad complementary fball..
 
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HWKEYZ23 said:
It was ok this yr but still not great. Thankfully KJ was a beast this yr. Had it not been for him, it would have been ugly. We were 1 of 3 programs in the top 100 scoring offenses that averaged less than 1 passing TD per game.

You realize that PSU team was garbage right? They went 7-6. They were stupidly overrated
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or you could say that our game took a lot of starch out of them and impacted their remaining season--like the loss at Mich in 97 did to that Iowa team and the loss to Wisky did to the 2010 team.
PSU has talent no matter the year........
 
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eyesofhawk said:
How is 28 points per game not trying to play good offense?

Beat #2 PSU in '21. Don't think Iowa was trying to play good offense then?
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That PSU team finished 7-6. And the offense didn't win that game. They knocked Clifford out of the game and PSU's backup was incapable of doing anything. Taylor kept pinning them inside the 10 yard line and the crowd and defense destroyed their offense. Yes. That formula worked great against a team with a backup QB that wasn't ready to play. How did that same matchup work two years later?
 
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HWKEYZ23 said:
Luckily for KF we were in one of if not the worst divisions in college football. That has masked a lot of the issues the program has had.
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I think that's a complete load of crap.

Again, you said you aren't ok with the status quo. How so?

A football program should be judged by its record, which I pointed out.

You seem to understand this, and realize that your dissatisfaction with the status quo isn't really justifiable. So your only move has been to devalue Iowa's success, by the competition they've played, which is silly
 
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