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What Was the Hawks Biggest Disappointment This Season?

iowalaw

iowalaw

All-Conference
Jan 20, 2015
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1. The killer losing streak after coming so close to a title?
2. Uthoff's disappearance at times during the losing streak?
3. Woody's lack of developing more of an offensive game?
4. Our point two headed point guards' lack of development of offensive game?
5. Uhl's progress?
6. Fran's coaching/lack of calling time outs/predictable game planning?

I can't really be disappointed in the losing streak given that we didn't lose to anyone terrible, other than PSU, and were in every game. I didn't expect Uthoff to finish 2nd in the Big 10 in scoring, so it's hard to fault him for a few 9-12 point games. I had hoped Uhl would become more of a force this year, and he was off to a great start. Maybe he hit a wall. To me, it was the point guard play. That was our missing link this year. When those guys were on, they were on! But more often than not, their 3s were not falling, they were missing a ton of clutch free throws, and they weren't driving like they are capable of.
 
iowalaw said:
1. The killer losing streak after coming so close to a title?
2. Uthoff's disappearance at times during the losing streak?
3. Woody's lack of developing more of an offensive game?
4. Our point two headed point guards' lack of development of offensive game?
5. Uhl's progress?
6. Fran's coaching/lack of calling time outs/predictable game planning?

I can't really be disappointed in the losing streak given that we didn't lose to anyone terrible, other than PSU, and were in every game. I didn't expect Uthoff to finish 2nd in the Big 10 in scoring, so it's hard to fault him for a few 9-12 point games. I had hoped Uhl would become more of a force this year, and he was off to a great start. Maybe he hit a wall. To me, it was the point guard play. That was our missing link this year. When those guys were on, they were on! But more often than not, their 3s were not falling, they were missing a ton of clutch free throws, and they weren't driving like they are capable of.
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Losing streak will be the only thing remembered, as it was two years ago. So I'm going to go with the losing streak.
 
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Mike G.

I really thought he'd have a big year, maybe even a 2nd team big ten kinda year.

He had a few great games but overall he wasn't as strong as a forth year PG should be IMO.
 
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3. Woodys rebounding and presence as a teammate are fine. But...I'm not as disappointed with his offense as I am with his defense. I don't remember an Iowa center with as little presence as him as a shot blocker/alterer. It isn't always fair to compare, but This is a different defense with an Acie Earl or even an Eric Hansen.

The biggest disappojntment for me is a general one...that a team with this many seniors and that gets along this well, seems to consistently come up short in the clutch or when the pressure is on, regardless of Fran's coaching in those situations.
 
hawksense said:
Can't be disappointed. Sorry.

They did more than I thought they would before the season began. Something happened along the way that derailed them. Just like 2 years ago, we'll never know why. But, 12-6 is truly impressive to me, especially with the big victories.
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Hard to disagree when we were predicted to finish 9th by the talking heads. Tom Tom Club picked us 5th so they were pretty spot on.
 
Mike Gesell had no 3 point shot that was dependable.
Too many times he went for a layup and got stuffed or
blocked. Mike got engaged to his sweetheart this
season and that was his primary focus.
 
I noticed the change at the Minnesota game. During that game they stopped playing as a team and became a group of individual players. Prior to that game there was lots of press on several of the players, Uttoff, Jok and Sapp. Not sure if that was root cause, but suddenly it was like every man wants to be a hero and get some recognition too.

If they had just continued to play as a team, they would have garnered tons of positive press.

Anyway that is when I noticed the change, even though we won the game, it was not pretty.
 
HIWB said:
3. Woodys rebounding and presence as a teammate are fine. But...I'm not as disappointed with his offense as I am with his defense. I don't remember an Iowa center with as little presence as him as a shot blocker/alterer.
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Woodbury was the most important defensive player Iowa had this year. He does not need to block shots to be an effective low post defender. I agree that Woodbury would be better if he had a longer wingspan and better jumping ability so that he could block more shots. However, his defensive rotations, positioning, and communication more than make up for any athletic deficiencies. He has been a very good defender throughout his career, and this year was no different.

It is very noticeable that our post defense experiences a large drop off when Woodbury is not on the floor - especially in our 2-3 zone defense.
 
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icantfindausernamethatisntused said:
It is very noticeable that our post defense experiences a large drop off when Woodbury is not on the floor - especially in our 2-3 zone defense.
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And I'd counter that His importance is a consequence of the Lack of big man talent on this team, not because he's a great defender in a league that is generally dominated by guard play anyway. Regarding blocked shots, being a good post defender is not dictated solely by how well you guard the man you're assigned to, and that's evidenced by the number of blocks other centers have against players they're not manned up on. How many off the ball rotations did he make to block or alter a shot this year on all those teams that drove to the hoop in any of Iowa's defensive sets? How many times did he commit a lazy foul because he was caught in the no mans land of thinking about taking a charge vs being an intimidating shot blocker like so many other 7-footers in basketball? I'd argue that if he were that well positioned or that good at rotating as you say he is, he'd have more blocks or certainly alter more shots even with the lack of athletic ability he has, and there are zero teams that are apprehensive to drive to the hoop against Iowas defense to show for it.
Listen, this team would not be where it is without Woodbury. That doesn't mean we can't wonder about the lack of improvement in 4 years at Iowa, especially if we're going to acquiesce that he's never going to be more than average on the offensive end.
Of course, he'll pull down 18 rebounds with 3 blocks in the elite 8 game this year to prove that I'm full of **** (crosses fingers).
 
Im not too upset with the season considering where everyone though they would be before the season started. The harder part is they played like a top 5 team for a lot of the season and then melted away a chance at something really special.

With that said, all of that will be forgotten with a long NCAA run. Looking at the field this year, there is no clear cut favorite so anything can happen.
 
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HIWB said:
And I'd counter that His importance is a consequence of the Lack of big man talent on this team, not because he's a great defender in a league that is generally dominated by guard play anyway. Regarding blocked shots, being a good post defender is not dictated solely by how well you guard the man you're assigned to, and that's evidenced by the number of blocks other centers have against players they're not manned up on. How many off the ball rotations did he make to block or alter a shot this year on all those teams that drove to the hoop in any of Iowa's defensive sets? How many times did he commit a lazy foul because he was caught in the no mans land of thinking about taking a charge vs being an intimidating shot blocker like so many other 7-footers in basketball? I'd argue that if he were that well positioned or that good at rotating as you say he is, he'd have more blocks or certainly alter more shots even with the lack of athletic ability he has, and there are zero teams that are apprehensive to drive to the hoop against Iowas defense to show for it.
Listen, this team would not be where it is without Woodbury. That doesn't mean we can't wonder about the lack of improvement in 4 years at Iowa, especially if we're going to acquiesce that he's never going to be more than average on the offensive end.
Of course, he'll pull down 18 rebounds with 3 blocks in the elite 8 game this year to prove that I'm full of **** (crosses fingers).
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A few points:

(1) Woodbury was never going to be a big-time shot blocker because he does not have long arms and he does not have great leaping ability. Therefore, my point is that you cannot judge his defense just by his amount of blocked shots. Unless I am misunderstanding your position, I believe what you're saying is that since Woodbury does not have many blocked shots this year, that means he is not properly rotating to provide help defense.

(2) Woodbury has committed very few lazy fouls this year. Despite playing a career high in minutes, his fouls per game match his career low.

(3) You argue that Woodbury is often not well-positioned on defense. I argue the opposite. This is tough to evaluate as there is no quantifiable metric for being in proper defensive position. However, statements from his teammates and Fran support the position that he is consistently in good defensive position. For example, here are some excerpts from an AP article:
  • [Woodbury's] biggest contribution to the Hawkeyes has been on defense.
  • Woodbury's teammates, most notably guards like Gesell and Peter Jok, give credit for their much-improved defense to Woodbury's ability to direct them from the post.
  • "His role is obviously much more critical than it's ever been," McCaffery said. "The way he anchors the defense and the communication that he provides and the rebounding ... he doesn't make mistakes, he's scoring the ball and he provides an element of toughness that I think every team needs."
You do have a valid criticism that Woodbury is often not able to cover up the mistakes of his teammates by blocking shots at the rim. However, given his physical limitations, it was never reasonable to expect Woodbury to be a big time shot blocker, and thus I don't believe one should be disappointed about his amount of blocked shots. Woodbury understands his role on this team and he knows his limitations. He does not attempt to block many shots because he knows that he needs to stay out of foul trouble given our lack of depth at the 5 position. I don't think you could find anyone on Iowa's coaching staff or roster that would criticize Woodbury's defensive contribution this year.
​
 
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My personal opinion was the showing in Orlando early in the season. I thought with a veteran ball club, that they would go down there and at least compete for the championship. Nope they got beat by Dayton, then by ND, and then smoked WSU in the consolation final.

I seriously thought that was a major let down early in the season.
 
icantfindausernamethatisntused said:
A few points:

(1) Woodbury was never going to be a big-time shot blocker because he does not have long arms and he does not have great leaping ability. Therefore, my point is that you cannot judge his defense just by his amount of blocked shots. Unless I am misunderstanding your position, I believe what you're saying is that since Woodbury does not have many blocked shots this year, that means he is not properly rotating to provide help defense.

(2) Woodbury has committed very few lazy fouls this year. Despite playing a career high in minutes, his fouls per game match his career low.

(3) You argue that Woodbury is often not well-positioned on defense. I argue the opposite. This is tough to evaluate as there is no quantifiable metric for being in proper defensive position. However, statements from his teammates and Fran support the position that he is consistently in good defensive position. For example, here are some excerpts from an AP article:
  • [Woodbury's] biggest contribution to the Hawkeyes has been on defense.
  • Woodbury's teammates, most notably guards like Gesell and Peter Jok, give credit for their much-improved defense to Woodbury's ability to direct them from the post.
  • "His role is obviously much more critical than it's ever been," McCaffery said. "The way he anchors the defense and the communication that he provides and the rebounding ... he doesn't make mistakes, he's scoring the ball and he provides an element of toughness that I think every team needs."
You do have a valid criticism that Woodbury is often not able to cover up the mistakes of his teammates by blocking shots at the rim. However, given his physical limitations, it was never reasonable to expect Woodbury to be a big time shot blocker, and thus I don't believe one should be disappointed about his amount of blocked shots. Woodbury understands his role on this team and he knows his limitations. He does not attempt to block many shots because he knows that he needs to stay out of foul trouble given our lack of depth at the 5 position. I don't think you could find anyone on Iowa's coaching staff or roster that would criticize Woodbury's defensive contribution this year.
​
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My argument isn't all about blocked shots on the stat sheet. I just don't consider his presence as a center on the defense to be intimidating enough to make a difference on anyone but his manned up responsibility, and that's an important part of being a center. No, you can't measure "presence" or "intimidation" on the stat sheet, but it sounds like you agree that his lack of physical ability would preclude him from ever being able to be that sort of defensive player (thus my point).
I can see where you're coming from, but did we really all sit back 4 years ago before he ever played a game in college and say to ourselves that our new, highly recruited 7 footer would never be athletic enough to be a shot blocker (or even a strong finisher at the rim) much less an intimidating presence on the defensive end, so let's never expect that from him? Especially considering he also never developed an above average offensive game? If yes, then What did we expect from him after 4 years of development?
That's really where I'm coming from.
Regardless, as mentioned in my OP, this is far less disappointing than the overall lack of guts at the end of close games for me.
 
The presence of this thread toward the top of the board on a day like today gives this thread the potential to blow up into the biggest thread on HR ever. I do hope it falls off the first page in the next five hours.

Yes, I realize that me posting this message perpetuates its inclusion at the top of the board...
 
My biggest disappointment would have to be Dale Jones getting injured early. I really think he could have been the consistent 3rd scoring option this team has been looking for.
 
The loss to Penn State and the loss to Wisconsin. Neither were necessary. Had they played with mental toughness they would have won. The other losses during the losing streak were understandable.
 
HIWB said:
My argument isn't all about blocked shots on the stat sheet. I just don't consider his presence as a center on the defense to be intimidating enough to make a difference on anyone but his manned up responsibility, and that's an important part of being a center. No, you can't measure "presence" or "intimidation" on the stat sheet, but it sounds like you agree that his lack of physical ability would preclude him from ever being able to be that sort of defensive player (thus my point).
I can see where you're coming from, but did we really all sit back 4 years ago before he ever played a game in college and say to ourselves that our new, highly recruited 7 footer would never be athletic enough to be a shot blocker (or even a strong finisher at the rim) much less an intimidating presence on the defensive end, so let's never expect that from him? Especially considering he also never developed an above average offensive game? If yes, then What did we expect from him after 4 years of development?
That's really where I'm coming from.
Regardless, as mentioned in my OP, this is far less disappointing than the overall lack of guts at the end of close games for me.
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There were many people that saw Woodbury would not be a shot-blocker when he was a recruit. Here is an excerpt from a BHGP article:
  • Defensively, he's a solid rebounder, though the jury is out on his abilities as a post defender and shot-blocker (ESPN's scouts say his defensive abilities are his best qualities, Scout says he doesn't alter too many shots)
We both agree that he is not the type of player that Acie Earl and Eric Hansen were, as they were great shot blockers and rim protectors. Woodbury just isn't as athletic or lanky as they were. However, where we disagree is that you seem to think this precludes him from being a very good defensive player. However, Fran has referred to him as a terrific anchor defensively. I also think you underestimate the value of Woodbury being able to shut down the man he is guarding. For example, I would say that Woodbury is a big reason why we beat Purdue twice this season. In our two games against Purdue, Woodbury held Hammons and Haas to half of their combined averages. That was tremendously valuable because those two are perhaps the most important pieces in Purdue's offense.
 
icantfindausernamethatisntused said:
There were many people that saw Woodbury would not be a shot-blocker when he was a recruit. Here is an excerpt from a BHGP article:
  • Defensively, he's a solid rebounder, though the jury is out on his abilities as a post defender and shot-blocker (ESPN's scouts say his defensive abilities are his best qualities, Scout says he doesn't alter too many shots)
We both agree that he is not the type of player that Acie Earl and Eric Hansen were, as they were great shot blockers and rim protectors. Woodbury just isn't as athletic or lanky as they were. However, where we disagree is that you seem to think this precludes him from being a very good defensive player. However, Fran has referred to him as a terrific anchor defensively. I also think you underestimate the value of Woodbury being able to shut down the man he is guarding. For example, I would say that Woodbury is a big reason why we beat Purdue twice this season. In our two games against Purdue, Woodbury held Hammons and Haas to half of their combined averages. That was tremendously valuable because those two are perhaps the most important pieces in Purdue's offense.
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I don't think it precludes him from being a very good defensive player at all. I think it precludes him from being a very good center. And while Fran has more bball IQ in his little finger than I'll ever have, I don't expect him to say anything negative about one of his players.
While BHGP tempered the 2012 expectations, I find it interesting that you chose to reference an article with quotes from others that he'd be a program changer, via program reputation as well as ability. I don't agree that AW has been the snowball that has created the Avalanche of recruits and program success. If it makes you feel better that your article was correct in its prediction, albeit 3 years beyond the 2012 tempered expectations, then you and I don't share the same sentiment when it comes to player development and recruitment.
Your Purdue example is exactly what I'm talking about. He does fine on his man. Fantastic. That played right into our hands vs Purdue. What happens when he's needed for weak side help against Penn State, Wisconsin, or Indiana?
 
Losing the first round of the B1G tourney. Especially when all season it looked like we wouldn't even play on 3/10.
 
HIWB said:
I don't think it precludes him from being a very good defensive player at all. I think it precludes him from being a very good center. And while Fran has more bball IQ in his little finger than I'll ever have, I don't expect him to say anything negative about one of his players.
While BHGP tempered the 2012 expectations, I find it interesting that you chose to reference an article with quotes from others that he'd be a program changer, via program reputation as well as ability. I don't agree that AW has been the snowball that has created the Avalanche of recruits and program success. If it makes you feel better that your article was correct in its prediction, albeit 3 years beyond the 2012 tempered expectations, then you and I don't share the same sentiment when it comes to player development and recruitment.
Your Purdue example is exactly what I'm talking about. He does fine on his man. Fantastic. That played right into our hands vs Purdue. What happens when he's needed for weak side help against Penn State, Wisconsin, or Indiana?
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I won't argue that Woodbury hasn't exactly lived up to the hype of his blue chip status. However, I don't think it's because of his defense. We knew that he was not a great athlete and did not have long arms, and therefore he would not be a big time shot blocker in college. However, he was said to have had excellent footwork and a soft touch around the rim for a post player. He was ranked very high because it was thought that he could be a true back-to-the-basket player that could provide scoring down low as well as be a good passer. His role on offense has been underwhelming at best.

I simply have to question anyone that expected him to be much better than he currently is defensively. His physical limitations are highly visible. To expect him to be an elite shot blocker would have been foolish.
 
icantfindausernamethatisntused said:
I simply have to question anyone that expected him to be much better than he currently is defensively. His physical limitations are highly visible. To expect him to be an elite shot blocker would have been foolish.
Click to expand...

Then I'm not sure why you're responding to me. I'm not asking for elite shot blocking center play. I'm asking for average.
 
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