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When Will the Good People With Guns Save Us?

What Would Jesus Do? said:
Am I the only person wondering about this?

What are they waiting for?
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Yeah, when is Obama show us he is our President? It is his responsibility to keep us safe and his gun control and PC agenda is making most people (but I guess not you) very nervous. People are arming themselves because Obama shows -O- leadership...no intention of protecting them. But you throw your smarta__ post out here chiding/insulting people that are fearful for their safety? What is that?
 
The Tradition said:
Texas and California are comparable in terms of many variables. Large, populous states with urban centers as well as vast rural areas; racially diverse with large Hispanic populations; etc. It's not like comparing Texas and Vermont.
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Let me try again, would you expect them to be the same, in the absence of gun regs?
 
Hawk in SEC Country said:
NO...we are not. According to FBI criteria...we are at exactly............ 4

The BS Number reported last week was 355....now it's 381? Did we all miss 26 news stories in the last week?
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The link provides documentation of each event. It defines a "mass shooting" as one where 4 or more people are shot. How is that "BS" What number of people do you feel need to be shot before it has to be qualified as a "mass shooting"? You all were giving high-fives to Kiting and his link had events that weren't even shootings.

I'm just wondering where all you cowboys are. You're buying more and more guns, getting more concealed carry permits, but it seems that despite what looks to be ~400 mass shootings a year the defenders with guns are stopping about one every other year at best. Why aren't we seeing stories every day about you all trading rounds and taking out the bad guys? You've got them vastly outnumbered if your propaganda is true. Where are the results?
 
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You guys realize that most of these mass shooting are happening where people aren't allowed to carry guns, right? If this is the case, how would you expect a gun owner to stop one of these shootings? I swear to Christ, some of you people have no deductive reasoning, although it is pretty awesome for the entertainment value, as long as you can get over the wholesale ridiculousness.
 
I keep seeing that said, but what proof is there? College campus last month? Guns allowed. PP office? Movie theaters? Guns. Churches? Guns. Sure, some secondary schools but where else? And even in the places that are "gun free" you all claim you carry anyways. Weak excuse.
 
BelemNole said:
I keep seeing that said, but what proof is there? College campus last month? Guns allowed. PP office? Movie theaters? Guns. Churches? Guns. Sure, some secondary schools but where else? And even in the places that are "gun free" you all claim you carry anyways. Weak excuse.
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WTF are you talking about? You can't carry on college campuses, in the post office, or in movie theaters. And who on here says that they carry where they're not supposed to? You are a f***ing idiot, and I LOVE it! LOL!
 
NoleSoup4U said:
WTF are you talking about? You can't carry on college campuses, in the post office, or in movie theaters. And who on here says that they carry where they're not supposed to? You are a f***ing idiot, and I LOVE it! LOL!
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Educate yourself. The Umpqua Community College was not a gun free zone. I didn't say anything about post offices. Most movie theaters have no restrictions on guns. "f***ing idiot", huh? Try a little research and a little less frothing at the mouth.
 
BelemNole said:
Educate yourself. The Umpqua Community College was not a gun free zone. I didn't say anything about post offices. Most movie theaters have no restrictions on guns. "f***ing idiot", huh? Try a little research and a little less frothing at the mouth.
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I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure it's against the law to go anywhere and just start randomly shooting people.
 
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BelemNole said:
The link provides documentation of each event. It defines a "mass shooting" as one where 4 or more people are shot. How is that "BS" What number of people do you feel need to be shot before it has to be qualified as a "mass shooting"? You all were giving high-fives to Kiting and his link had events that weren't even shootings.

I'm just wondering where all you cowboys are. You're buying more and more guns, getting more concealed carry permits, but it seems that despite what looks to be ~400 mass shootings a year the defenders with guns are stopping about one every other year at best. Why aren't we seeing stories every day about you all trading rounds and taking out the bad guys? You've got them vastly outnumbered if your propaganda is true. Where are the results?
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Your really going to double down on that?

First off if there weren't shootings, most people would consider that a successful defense. Do you need 5 people to die before the citizen stops the killer for it to count?

Second off, you want to complain that some didn't fit a strict definition of mass shooting when prevented, but then want to use the lowest common denominator to claim a large number of "mass shootings". Pick a side of your mouth to talk out of rather than both. 57% of those shootings you claim are domestic disputes. The vast majority of the rest are gang or robbery related. Only 4 are terroristic violent acts such as the recent shooting. If you want to know about robberies and other crimes stopped by citizens with guns, the number is in the thousands of documented cases and millions of undocumented ones that didn't get reported, but have been studied via polling.

No one smart is buying your attempt at slight of hand here. Pick one standard and stick to it. Better yet, just admit you were beaten, cause we all know it already. Your looking like a Monty Python skit here.
 
KitingHigh said:
Your really going to double down on that?

First off if there weren't shootings, most people would consider that a successful defense. Do you need 5 people to die before the citizen stops the killer for it to count?

Second off, you want to complain that some didn't fit a strict definition of mass shooting when prevented, but then want to use the lowest common denominator to claim a large number of "mass shootings". Pick a side of your mouth to talk out of rather than both. 57% of those shootings you claim are domestic disputes. The vast majority of the rest are gang or robbery related. Only 4 are terroristic violent acts such as the recent shooting. If you want to know about robberies and other crimes stopped by citizens with guns, the number is in the thousands of documented cases and millions of undocumented ones that didn't get reported, but have been studied via polling.

No one smart is buying your attempt at slight of hand here. Pick one standard and stick to it. Better yet, just admit you were beaten, cause we all know it already. Your looking like a Monty Python skit here.
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"Pick a side of your mouth to talk out of rather than both" Wasn't I just pointing out the hypocrisy of those congratulating you on your like while dismissing mine? I think a little turnabout is fair play.

Is your position now that good guys with guns are only available to help out in "terroristic violent acts"? That they see the other events, recognize them as domestic disputes or gang activity and move on?
 
BelemNole said:
Educate yourself. The Umpqua Community College was not a gun free zone. I didn't say anything about post offices. Most movie theaters have no restrictions on guns. "f***ing idiot", huh? Try a little research and a little less frothing at the mouth.
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Might I suggest you plan out your posts a little better?

Anyways, what was your point then? That people in gun free zones can't defend themselves from guns?

Belem cries about needing gun control. Belem gets his wish. Armed gunmen target gun free zones because they aren't as stupid as Belem. Belem wonders aloud why conceal carry citizens didn't save these people. Belem forgets that these are gun free zones as per the wishes of him and his kind. Belem is a f***ing retard.

And trust me, I'm not frothing at the mouth unless it's a byproduct of me LMFAO at your stupidity.
 
lol, just going to ignore that you were completely wrong about the community college shooting huh?
 
Huey Grey said:
This is kind of my point. How are Cali and Texas comparable? They aren't even in the sides of the country.
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They're both large states with urban centers and vast rural areas. They both border Mexico. They both have diverse populations with many Hispanics. They both have a great deal of agriculture. They both have ports. They both have many military installations. The only difference is, conservatives are in the majority in Texas, and the liberals are in the majority in California.
 
NoleSoup4U said:
You guys realize that most of these mass shooting are happening where people aren't allowed to carry guns, right? If this is the case, how would you expect a gun owner to stop one of these shootings? I swear to Christ, some of you people have no deductive reasoning, although it is pretty awesome for the entertainment value, as long as you can get over the wholesale ridiculousness.
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No one on the left wants to hear this - they pretend it is Charlie Brown's teacher talking. I have yet to see a Terrorist stop at the doors that say "no guns allowed".

original.jpg
 
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NoleSoup4U said:
Do you have anything on that college being gun free? We aren't even allowed to smoke on campus, let alone carry a gun. This is all I could find on the subject. The article says that they aren't allowed to conceal carry on campus.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/oregon-gun-laws-allow-concealedcarry-on-campuses/35692156
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http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2015/10/umpqua_community_college_not_a.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...-umpqua-community-college-is-a-gun-free-zone/
 
NoleSoup4U said:
Do you have anything on that college being gun free? We aren't even allowed to smoke on campus, let alone carry a gun. This is all I could find on the subject. The article says that they aren't allowed to conceal carry on campus.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/oregon-gun-laws-allow-concealedcarry-on-campuses/35692156
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Umpqua Community College does have policies prohibiting guns on campus, but they “would not apply to those with valid concealed weapon permits pursuant to Oregon law,” a college official told us.

George P. Pernsteiner, who was chancellor of the university system and author of the weapons policy, told us in an email how the policy works.

“Basically, by registering to be a student, by being an employee, or by using a ticket to an event, the person had to agree not to bring a weapon — even if they had a concealed weapons permit,” Pernsteiner wrote. “Buildings were posted as not permitting weapons as a condition of entry into the building. But, as you note, a person with no relationship to the university but with a concealed weapons permit could have such a weapon while walking on and across campus grounds (university open spaces).”

However, Pernsteiner also told us that the board’s policy “applied to the seven universities that were within the university system and did not apply to any of Oregon’s 17 community colleges,” including Umpqua Community College.

So we asked UCC if it had adopted a policy similar to the one at the universities that are part of the Oregon University System. Understandably, school officials did not immediately respond to our questions. On Oct. 19, we received a response from Rebecca Redell, UCC’s vice president and chief financial officer, who said the school’s weapon policies do not apply to those who have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Redell, Oct. 19: The student misconduct policy regarding firearms does not apply to students with a valid concealed weapons permit. There is a general prohibition against the possession of weapons on campus that would apply to College patrons, but this, similarly would not apply to those with valid concealed weapon permits pursuant to Oregon law (ORS 166.170).

From UCC's student handbook

  1. Possession or use, without written authorization, of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, substances, or any other weapons or destructive devices that are designed to or readily capable of causing physical injury, on College premises, at College-sponsored or supervised functions or at functions sponsored or participated in by the College.

So unless the students abide by the "gun free zone" sticker and mindset of the campus they could carry. I doubt that many of them even know where the student handbook was prior to this incident (I am also betting that most students of every school in the country have now educated themselves of their schools policy regarding CC).

Here is KCC for example:

Weapons of any kind, whether carried open or concealed, shall not be allowed on any Kirkwood Community College property or at any Kirkwood sponsored event. This is regardless of the individual having a weapon permit issued by the State of Iowa or by any other state.

The term weapon includes, but is not limited to the following:

  • pistol, revolver, or handgun
  • shotguns or rifles
  • any weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind (includes air gun, paint ball, BB or pellet guns, potato guns or other homemade devices
  • bow and arrows
  • knives having a blade of 3” or more
  • straight edge razor or razor blade
  • brass knuckles, blackjacks, saps, or sap gloves
  • bat, club or other bludgeon type weapon
  • stun gun or taser
  • mace or pepper spray
  • also not permitted are potentially hazardous items such as ammunition, explosives, fireworks including firecrackers.
Campus Security will be notified if an individual is suspected or found to have a weapon or hazardous item.
 
BelemNole said:
"Pick a side of your mouth to talk out of rather than both" Wasn't I just pointing out the hypocrisy of those congratulating you on your like while dismissing mine? I think a little turnabout is fair play.

Is your position now that good guys with guns are only available to help out in "terroristic violent acts"? That they see the other events, recognize them as domestic disputes or gang activity and move on?
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Except you introduced the other events. You criticized my link, which again took no time at all, by saying the events didn't meet a strict definition of a "mass shooting", you specifically pointed out "Most even admit that it was a "family feud" or some such event and not a random mass shooting," (you're exact words). Then you went on to claim an obscene number of mass shootings of which the majority fit the exact definition you wish for me to exclude.

Now, I'll readily admit that maybe some of those events that did look like random mass shootings would not have been. We will never know because in all cases the shooter was stopped. Even most gun prohibitionists will admit making all guns illegal won't stop mass shootings, but want to do something to curb it. I showed that citizens with guns does in fact curb it.

Now, if you would like me to give examples of citizens stopping robberies and rapes by using guns, I can easily find hundreds. By their very nature, I think it's obvious that domestic disputes don't tend to happen in public places near people who are armed willing and ready to stop them.


Who did you learn to debate from? Jeff Bowden?
 
NoleSoup4U said:
Sounds like it's legal to CC, but the colleges were telling the kids that it wasn't.
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My guess is if a kid asks about carrying, that they are told "we are a gun free campus" and to refer to the student handbook (which no student looks at anyway). Challenging the college (with a CC law) to most students will put them in the mindset of being on the shit list. Not right, but the majority of citizens just accept what is said.
 
Vroom_C14 said:
My guess is if a kid asks about carrying, that they are told "we are a gun free campus" and to refer to the student handbook (which no student looks at anyway). Challenging the college (with a CC law) to most students will put them in the mindset of being on the shit list. Not right, but the majority of citizens just accept what is said.
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I wonder if you'll see a lawsuit crop up because of this? It's pretty crazy that a college put its students in harms way by intentionally lying to them.
 
If you bothered to read the links you would see that an Army vet WAS carrying that day. He didn't seem confused by the rules. He knew it wasn't a gun free zone.
 
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KitingHigh said:
Except you introduced the other events. You criticized my link, which again took no time at all, by saying the events didn't meet a strict definition of a "mass shooting", you specifically pointed out "Most even admit that it was a "family feud" or some such event and not a random mass shooting," (you're exact words). Then you went on to claim an obscene number of mass shootings of which the majority fit the exact definition you wish for me to exclude.

Now, I'll readily admit that maybe some of those events that did look like random mass shootings would not have been. We will never know because in all cases the shooter was stopped. Even most gun prohibitionists will admit making all guns illegal won't stop mass shootings, but want to do something to curb it. I showed that citizens with guns does in fact curb it.

Now, if you would like me to give examples of citizens stopping robberies and rapes by using guns, I can easily find hundreds. By their very nature, I think it's obvious that domestic disputes don't tend to happen in public places near people who are armed willing and ready to stop them.


Who did you learn to debate from? Jeff Bowden?
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I laughed at your link, but I accepted your 10 occurrences over 20 years in several replies. I just compared them to the hundreds of mass shootings per year and wondered why there were so few. You seem to want to attack the messenger instead of answer this question.
 
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BelemNole said:
I laughed at your link, but I accepted your 10 occurrences over 20 years in several replies. I just compared them to the hundreds of mass shootings per year and wondered why there were so few. You seem to want to attack the messenger instead of answer this question.
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I can spam this thread with recent gun self-defense stories if you like.

I tend to have to do it to these threads when they pop up about every six weeks or, so.
 
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22*43*51 said:
I can spam this thread with recent gun self-defense stories if you like.

I tend to have to do it to these threads when they pop up about every six weeks or, so.
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What the hell. I won't wait for an invitation.

Within the last 30 days. Quick search.

http://www.fox8live.com/story/30680533/uptown-homeowner-shoots-man-trying-to-break-into-vehicle

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/crime/2015/12/06/armed-intruder-shot-in-vale-home/76896414/

http://fox21news.com/2015/11/30/man...ing-as-hotel-employee-entering-soldiers-room/

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regio...e-owner-fires-shot-at-wouldbe-robber/36716698

http://bearingarms.com/thug-targets-woman-earns-bullet-georgia-home-invasion/

http://www.newson6.com/story/306255...-shoots-attempted-robber-at-tulsa-burger-king

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/deputies-woman-shoots-and-kills-would-be-craigslist-robber/

http://krqe.com/2015/11/20/elderly-...ar-holds-him-at-gunpoint-until-police-arrive/

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...pect-met-with-gunfire-from-employee/76136820/

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ff1fbec1-fcd8-5d16-8fb7-2cf81779f75a.html

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regio...hat-left-2-suspects-resident-wounded/36520850

http://www.ksat.com/news/1-teen-killed-1-injured-in-home-invasion

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article45169377.html

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/30498720/police-looking-for-4-home-invasion-suspects

http://www.ktva.com/apd-home-invasion-thwarted-by-armed-homeowner-320/

http://bringmethenews.com/2015/11/13/superior-wisc-coin-store-clerk-shoots-wounds-robbery-suspect/

http://www.11alive.com/videos/news/local/2015/11/12/road-rage-ends-in-deadly-shooting/75636430/

http://www.cbs46.com/story/30508463/teen-robbery-suspects-shot-by-victim

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...09/macomb-man-beaten-leaves-blowing/75449778/

http://www.wsvn.com/story/30492691/elderly-miami-woman-shoots-at-attempted-burglars

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/loca...ar-old-kills-man-breaking-into-home/75538040/

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/loca...-shoots-kills-suspect-lake-carolina/75511170/

http://abc3340.com/news/local/man-a...-fatally-shot-by-alleged-victim-in-forestdale
 
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I read about half of them. Most aren't self-defense but brandishing a gun to defend property (car, etc) Call to the police would work in that case.

Regardless, it doesn't answer the question asked by the OP.
 
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