Why Do You Trust Your Government with the Death Penalty?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If I had to guess, I would guess that there's a higher-than-accidental overlap between people who routinely complain about government overreach - the gun defenders being a particularly obvious example - and those who favor the death penalty.

Is that perception wrong? Why would anyone who is worried that the government is coming for their guns (and stealing their property; and denying their rights...) be gung ho for capital punishment?

 

[22*43*51]

If you're suggesting that they just turn the criminals over to the victim's families to do the deed, then I'm with you.

 

[naturalmwa]

If you're suggesting that they just turn the criminals over to the victim's families to do the deed, then I'm with you.

Really? That's pretty interesting. So do they become the slaves of the family?

 

[KitingHigh]

No

 

[22*43*51]

Really? That's pretty interesting. So do they become the slaves of the family?

I just figure the family could find a cheaper way to dispatch them than what the government offers.

 

[86Hawkeye]

If you're suggesting that they just turn the criminals over to the victim's families to do the deed, then I'm with you.

Exactly. "Power to the People!"

 

[naturalmwa]

I just figure the family could find a cheaper way to dispatch them than what the government offers.

If I got a free human, I'd do a lot more than toss him into a trash compactor.

 

[22*43*51]

If I got a free human, I'd do a lot more than toss him into a trash compactor.

 

[naturalmwa]

He would make a good gimp.

 

[fredjr82]

If I got a free human, I'd do a lot more than toss him into a trash compactor.

What if it was a chick?

 

[naturalmwa]

What if it was a chick?

I could find all kinds of things to do with a human of any sort. I might just auction them off on ebay. A legal slave must be worth millions to someone. Especially one with zero protections that you could legally kill or torture. That's bank.

 

[theiacowtipper]

What if the family is Amish or Quaker and believe in forgiveness? What if they immediately want the murderer set free? Should we always allow victims families to set the punishment?

 

[Nat Algren]

What if the family is Amish or Quaker and believe in forgiveness? What if they immediately want the murderer set free? Should we always allow victims families to set the punishment?

The state sets guidelines for punishment. I don't think anyone is suggesting they be turned loose on society to take more lives. The issue as I see it is this. The state should not be the one seeking the DP, as they have not been wronged. Attorney Generals, prosecutors and others in law frequently seek higher office and love to pad their resumes as being 'tough on crime'. It's boob bait for the Bubbas. The victim's families should seek retribution through legal channels within the parameters set before them.

 

[joelbc1]

Personally, I oppose the idea of capital punishment. Killing a person is killing a person. One of God's 10 Suggestions is that "thou shalt not kill", ain't it?

 

[Nat Algren]

Personally, I oppose the idea of capital punishment. Killing a person is killing a person. One of God's 10 Suggestions is that "thou shalt not kill", ain't it?

Yet, many who feel the same way as you, vote for the Republicrat machine that wantonly murders around the globe with impunity. I don't get it.

My apologies if that comes off as an attack on you. It was just in general.

 

[Chewback]

When people are being executed on a fairly regular basis I feel safe.

 

[HallofFame]

It's good enough for Obama to kill Americans via drone with no trial.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

For the sake of public safety, stability and fairness, we give up the right to take the law into our own hands. I'm surprised at the people suggesting we should put it back in the victims' hands. Which is not to say that I'm opposed to some forms of victim restitution.

We could certainly handle many aspects of our "corrections" system better, but I don't see that as any improvement at all.

 

[22*43*51]

I'm surprised at the people suggesting we should put it back in the victims' hands. Which is not to say that I'm opposed to some forms of victim restitution.

I was straight trolling in this thread Homie.

 

[naturalmwa]

I was straight trolling in this thread Homie.

I thought we all knew that? (I miss my shrugs emoticon).

 

[jpphawk]

To the OP, I don't. No proof the death penalty has done anything to improve the safety of America. It is more expensive to execute and has been proven that our judicial system is not even close to full proof. I wonder how many innocent people have been executed.

 

[22*43*51]

To the OP, I don't. No proof the death penalty has done anything to improve the safety of America. It is more expensive to execute and has been proven that our judicial system is not even close to full proof. I wonder how many innocent people have been executed.

WOB?

 

[naturalmwa]

WOB?

Here is a fun discussion on that.

http://grammarist.com/usage/foolproof/

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I thought we all knew that? (I miss my shrugs emoticon).

No, I'm too old fashioned for that. And too gullible. Which I don't really consider a bad thing. I'd rather give people the benefit of doubt and be disappointed than assume they are being asses or lying. The world is rough enough without looking at it that way.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me 3 times, shame on you.

Yes, I should eventually figure it out, but it's ALWAYS shame on you. The blame for dishonesty never shifts to the person who isn't being dishonest.

My problem with emoticon-free trolling from some people is that what they (apparently) think is obviously not serious sounds too much like what I'd expect them to say.

 

[22*43*51]

No, I'm too old fashioned for that. And too gullible. Which I don't really consider a bad thing. I'd rather give people the benefit of doubt and be disappointed than assume they are being asses or lying. The world is rough enough without looking at it that way.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me 3 times, shame on you.

Yes, I should eventually figure it out, but it's ALWAYS shame on you. The blame for dishonesty never shifts to the person who isn't being dishonest.

My problem with emoticon-free trolling from some people is that what they (apparently) think is obviously not serious sounds too much like what I'd expect them to say.

Sorry. I thought it was a troll thread.

So, I took the opposite, emotion charged stance that you were.

Some dichotomy was required to balance the slanted topic.

 

[Nat Algren]

When people are being executed on a fairly regular basis I feel safe.

Unless that person is you.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Sorry. I thought it was a troll thread.

So, I took the opposite, emotion charged stance that you were.

Some dichotomy was required to balance the slanted topic.

It's a serious question. Why do you trust a government that you hardly trust with anything else with the power of life and death over you and other citizens?

 

[22*43*51]

It's a serious question. Why do you trust a government that you hardly trust with anything else with the power of life and death over you and other citizens?

You deal in absolutes.

I trust local government to take trash off the curb and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

I trust the State/Federal Government to take the trash off of the streets and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

You deal in absolutes.

I trust local government to take trash off the curb and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

I trust the State/Federal Government to take the trash off of the streets and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

Yeah, but the thing is, death is pretty absolute.

If the collection agency screws up a trash pickup, that's a mild annoyance. It can and will be corrected no later than the next scheduled pickup. Death can't.

Even if the trash guys do a worse job of collecting trash from blacks or women or gays - which seems unlikely within the same neighborhood - that's still not as big a deal as killing more blacks or women or gays.

 

[22*43*51]

Yeah, but the thing is, death is pretty absolute.

If the collection agency screws up a trash pickup, that's a mild annoyance. It can and will be corrected no later than the next scheduled pickup. Death can't.

Even if the trash guys do a worse job of collecting trash from blacks or women or gays - which seems unlikely within the same neighborhood - that's still not as big a deal as killing more blacks or women or gays.

Just a broad example.

You're very trusting of the government having their fingers in most things.

Where do you draw the line on their competency?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Just a broad example.

You're very trusting of the government having their fingers in most things.

Where do you draw the line on their competency?

I'm a huge advocate of government oversight, transparency, sunset provisions in all laws, a strong free press, audits, ombudsmen, and more.

Not a fan of unchecked, under-scrutinized authority.

Most of the time when I favor government action it's for 2 reasons: action is needed, and the alternatives aren't getting the job done or pose worse dangers than having government do it.

 

[Nat Algren]

I'm a huge advocate of government oversight, transparency, sunset provisions in all laws, a strong free press, audits, ombudsmen, and more.

Not a fan of unchecked, under-scrutinized authority.

Most of the time when I favor government action it's for 2 reasons: action is needed, and the alternatives aren't getting the job done or pose worse dangers than having government do it.

I think history is pretty clear, in that those with the money will buy off those in political office. The Federal Reserve has never been audited. The press has been under the control of Elites for over 100 years.

 

[Nat Algren]

You deal in absolutes.

I trust local government to take trash off the curb and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

I trust the State/Federal Government to take the trash off of the streets and dispose of it. With great, but not perfect accuracy.

Our government incarcerates over 2 million people. Human error suggests 10% of those in jail are innocent. Simple Math tells me a lot of lives have been needlessly ruined. Some by aggressive Prosecutors looking to build a track record for higher office and the public be damned.

 

[naturalmwa]

Our government incarcerates over 2 million people. Human error suggests 10% of those in jail are innocent. Simple Math tells me a lot of lives have been needlessly ruined. Some by aggressive Prosecutors looking to build a track record for higher office and the public be damned.

Where do you get your 10% figure? Is that offered as a real number or just a place holder better understood as x%?

 

[Nat Algren]

Where do you get your 10% figure? Is that offered as a real number or just a place holder better understood as x%?

Just plucked it...honestly. Could be higher.

 

[22*43*51]

Just plucked it...honestly. Could be higher.

Or, much, much lower.

"Americans love the underdog. Thousands of law students aspire to be Atticus Finch, the famous fictional lawyer from "To Kill A Mockingbird." But this can go too far: one of the jurors who acquitted the actor Robert Blake of murder last year cited the TV program "CSI" as the basis of her knowledge of what good police work should be. And if we take a deep breath and examine the state of American justice, a very different picture will emerge.

To start, only 14 Americans who were once on death row have been exonerated by DNA evidence alone. The hordes of Americans wrongfully convicted exist primarily on Planet Hollywood. In the Winter 2005 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, a group led by Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, published an exhaustive study of exonerations around the country from 1989 to 2003 in cases ranging from robbery to capital murder. They were able to document only 340 inmates who were eventually freed. (They counted cases where defendants were retried after an initial conviction and subsequently found not guilty as "exonerations.") Yet, despite the relatively small number his research came up with, Mr. Gross says he is certain that far more innocents languish undiscovered in prison.

So, let's give the professor the benefit of the doubt: let's assume that he understated the number of innocents by roughly a factor of 10, that instead of 340 there were 4,000 people in prison who weren't involved in the crime in any way. During that same 15 years, there were more than 15 million felony convictions across the country. That would make the error rate .027 percent — or, to put it another way, a success rate of 99.973 percent. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/26/opinion/26marquis.html?_r=1&