Why does our men’s US soccer team always suck ass?!??

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Remember when we were a top 8 team in the world and outplayed an eventual finalist in a World Cup quarterfinal, while having a guy named “Best Young Player”. I miss this relentless attacking style:

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Remember 7 years later when we beat one of the best national teams of all time 2-0 in a major FIFA men’s tournament semifinal? Then we put up 2 more and almost beat Brazil in the final. Imagine these teams’ offense with our defenders today. Gives me some hope:

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Brian Mcbride would have torn his own leg off and attached the hurt leg Balogun went off with to finish 45 more minutes last night.

Not to piss in your cheerios but whatever you think we gained in the back for we last at #1. Kasey Keller could show and decide he just wasn't in the mood to get scored on that day and we would be in games we had no buisness being in. You are not getting a 20 save shutout out of this young guy.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Messi's issue in the US would've been his size. I think Hugo Perez said that the federation did not rate Pulisic because he was too small. It took Dortmund to get them to realize that they needed to consider him.

Yes probably. But if you played at all in our systems guys wouldn't play because of dumb shit left footed touches. Messi is arguably the goat and his right foot is a peg.

 

[QChawks]

We do not like soccer as a culture regardless of how much the elites try to ram it down everyone's throat.

so annoying

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

so annoying

You could argue that has hurt the appeal.of that sport also.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

so annoying

Fortunately basketball doesn’t do 4 vs 5. A couple free throw attempts in a game with 200 points scored isn’t nearly as significant as a point blank shot or a man advantage in a game where 2 goals is considered awesome offensive production.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

We struggle against shit teams and beat Mexico and Columbus. Keep blaming the manager at some point these players are what they are. Just ok. That’s it. Klinsmann tried getting them to Euro clubs. Well we don’t have good players.

So this was the big push at the end of my generation.

"MLS is a substandard league we need our guys playing in the best leagues".

I think we missed a couple things with that.

1. Playing, and the confidence that comes with it. Sending our best over to sit on the bench of a great league isn't as beneficial as in game touches.

Think about this. If we were going to choose our players for a 3 point shooting contest would you want an NAIA all American, mid season, on pace to break every NAIA record, or a D1 bench player that gets 3 minutes and .5 shots a game? Clearly the D1 player has a higher top end but if I need to beat you in a contest right now, give me the guy in form.



2. Though they have some form.of American linage, we are not represented by "Americans". When the Panama players go home, they will be surrounded by Panamanians discussing success or failure for the rest of thier lives. When our players go home, they speak other languages and wish they could have won one for Merica.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

But we have over 300 million people. Uruguay beat us and they only have a population of only 3 million. No excuses to be shit all the time.

Population has little to do with it. Uruguay is a top team. Belgium is a top team. China and India are terrible.

The biggest problem was Tim Weah lost his temper and we blew it against Panama.

That is unfortunately the way it often goes with soccer. One mistake could cost your team the game and the tournament.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

This. 100% this

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I posted on this last night in another thread. It's because over half of those dudes don't get regular playing time at their mega clubs. While great they are there for training, they don't get PT except for the defenders.

1. Pulisic is a star at AC Milan.
2. McKinnie earned his spot at Juve but is STILL looking to ship him off.
3. Tillman starts at PSV but are they really in a great league?

That's it for top leagues. The rest ride the pine, play spotty minites, or out of positons for the US as I detailed.

Sargent starts and plays a lot for Norwich in the Championship (2nd division) in England if you count that as well.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

Population has little to do with it. Uruguay is a top team. Belgium is a top team. China and India are terrible.

The biggest problem was Tim Weah lost his temper and we blew it against Panama.

That is unfortunately the way it often goes with soccer. One mistake could cost your team the game and the tournament.

While this is a huge problem, there was no adjustment to what we did. We scored first and then instead of trying to keep the ball, we bunkered defensively. That's unacceptable. That's also the second player to get a red in a really bad spot. I'm still going after both the sporting director and Gregg.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

So this was the big push at the end of my generation.

"MLS is a substandard league we need our guys playing in the best leagues".

I think we missed a couple things with that.

1. Playing, and the confidence that comes with it. Sending our best over to sit on the bench of a great league isn't as beneficial as in game touches.

Think about this. If we were going to choose our players for a 3 point shooting contest would you want an NAIA all American, mid season, on pace to break every NAIA record, or a D1 bench player that gets 3 minutes and .5 shots a game? Clearly the D1 player has a higher top end but if I need to beat you in a contest right now, give me the guy in form.



2. Though they have some form.of American linage, we are not represented by "Americans". When the Panama players go home, they will be surrounded by Panamanians discussing success or failure for the rest of thier lives. When our players go home, they speak other languages and wish they could have won one for Merica.

I disagree, we have a better team than previous generations and it shows. Berhalter for as much as everyone hates him has the best W/L record of any coach in USMNT history. We are dominating our region which used to be a 50/50 with Mexico in the last generation and the generation before that was always behind Mexico.

However there is also the worthwhile criticism that Berhalter does not have a signature win. He beats the teams he's suppose to beat usually, but he hasn't managed to pull off an upset win.

Panamanian players may go back to Panama but the top teams, the ones that consistently win, their players go back to Europe.

Biggest problem IMO is we don't have the quality of academies in the US. Our best player is our best player in heavy part because his family was wealthy enough and had the right connections to get him into an academy in Germany when he was a teenager.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

I disagree, we have a better team than previous generations and it shows. Berhalter for as much as everyone hates him has the best W/L record of any coach in USMNT history. We are dominating our region which used to be a 50/50 with Mexico in the last generation and the generation before that was always behind Mexico.

However there is also the worthwhile criticism that Berhalter does not have a signature win. He beats the teams he's suppose to beat usually, but he hasn't managed to pull off an upset win.

Panamanian players may go back to Panama but the top teams, the ones that consistently win, their players go back to Europe.

Biggest problem IMO is we don't have the quality of academies in the US. Our best player is our best player in heavy part because his family was wealthy enough and had the right connections to get him into an academy in Germany when he was a teenager.

What shows?


The goal is to.win games and advance in tournaments.

Yeah we are talented but there is more to winning than talent.


Those top teams have players that start in Europe. Not 2nd leagues and pine riders.

I agree our youth system leaves alot to be desired.

 

[Ferentz_Fan]

But we have over 300 million people. Uruguay beat us and they only have a population of only 3 million. No excuses to be shit all the time.

US soccer has had it's moments but they are late to a global sport.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

What shows?


The goal is to.win games and advance in tournaments.

Yeah we are talented but there is more to winning than talent.


Those top teams have players that start in Europe. Not 2nd leagues and pine riders.

I agree our youth system leaves alot to be desired.

Our improvement as a team has shown in our domination of CONCACAF which never happened until now.

The issue is that in order to get players that start in Europe they first have to take the risk of going to Europe in the first place and being willing to fight for a spot.

And lets not forget we don't have a great deal of control of this. MLS salaries pale in comparison to salaries from Europe and players are going to go where they can earn the most money.

Also I feel like there is a bit of a negative skew to our view on the USMNT. These posts always come up after a disappointing loss. We rarely make entire threads about how we are now the unquestioned dominate team in CONCACAF and the only team that has ever won the Nations League.

We're just not able to compete on the level of the top teams in South America or Europe. Few teams are. Only 8 teams have ever won the World Cup.

 

[Ferentz_Fan]

You could argue that has hurt the appeal.of that sport also.

Yes, it is part of the game and strategy. Those players are running hard at eachother in cleats, you get a better perspective when you see replays in slow motion, but yes can be annoying.

 

[BlIIlken2]

 

[Ferentz_Fan]

Tell Uruguay to suit up and play real football and they will F around and find out.

Futbol is a global sport, kids grow up kicking a soccer ball in most countries instead of playing baseball and football.

 

[bhawk24bob]

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The problem isn’t isolated to Berhalter as a coach. It just bubbles up to where we see it on the international stage

It all starts with the youth system and how we develop talent (and who gets developed). It’s not getting fixed in our lifetimes, so losing is a big nothingburger. We’re not even trying to address it.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

I posted on this last night in another thread. It's because over half of those dudes don't get regular playing time at their mega clubs. While great they are there for training, they don't get PT except for the defenders.

1. Pulisic is a star at AC Milan.
2. McKinnie earned his spot at Juve but is STILL looking to ship him off.
3. Tillman starts at PSV but are they really in a great league?

That's it for top leagues. The rest ride the pine, play spotty minites, or out of positons for the US as I detailed.

Sargent starts and plays a lot for Norwich in the Championship (2nd division) in England if you count that as well.

Josh Sargent........ man......

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

So this was the big push at the end of my generation.

"MLS is a substandard league we need our guys playing in the best leagues".

I think we missed a couple things with that.

1. Playing, and the confidence that comes with it. Sending our best over to sit on the bench of a great league isn't as beneficial as in game touches.

Think about this. If we were going to choose our players for a 3 point shooting contest would you want an NAIA all American, mid season, on pace to break every NAIA record, or a D1 bench player that gets 3 minutes and .5 shots a game? Clearly the D1 player has a higher top end but if I need to beat you in a contest right now, give me the guy in form.



2. Though they have some form.of American linage, we are not represented by "Americans". When the Panama players go home, they will be surrounded by Panamanians discussing success or failure for the rest of thier lives. When our players go home, they speak other languages and wish they could have won one for Merica.

Never thought of it that way. Thanks for that insight. Pulisic (as a Chelsea supporter) didn’t get enough time and was out of favor or constantly injured. Playing well in Serie A but he is not what he’s been made out to be. Dest getting out of Barca to your point is good he was never going to be a guy there.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Kids play youth soccer, because it's fun and fairly easy to play for beginners. But kids generally don't dream of being a professional soccer player or hang posters of their favorite players in their room. For 99.9% of kids playing soccer, high school varsity is the ceiling. In other countries, kids are given soccer balls at birth.

All 3 of my boys played soccer. The most talented one quit after age 14 because none of his friends were playing. Th other two went on to play varsity soccer in HS. When we went to the games, there were maybe 100 fans watching - mostly family. If you went to a HS football or basketball game there were thousands of fans.

In every other sport, the US mops the floor with Uruguay. Football, basketball, golf, tennis, wrestling, baseball, etc. But not soccer. You only need 10 guys in a country that dreams about being a soccer player.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Our improvement as a team has shown in our domination of CONCACAF which never happened until now.

The issue is that in order to get players that start in Europe they first have to take the risk of going to Europe in the first place and being willing to fight for a spot.

And lets not forget we don't have a great deal of control of this. MLS salaries pale in comparison to salaries from Europe and players are going to go where they can earn the most money.

Also I feel like there is a bit of a negative skew to our view on the USMNT. These posts always come up after a disappointing loss. We rarely make entire threads about how we are now the unquestioned dominate team in CONCACAF and the only team that has ever won the Nations League.

We're just not able to compete on the level of the top teams in South America or Europe. Few teams are. Only 8 teams have ever won the World Cup.

As someone who got sent to South America as a 15 year old. We have been doing that for years.


Here is the back end of the problem you bring up:


If you go somewhere, and you are good enough they want to pay you, you have to make the decision on if you want to ever play in the NCAA at that moment. I was able to go to Brazil, I was able to be hosted, I got some small gifts, I went to training. I could drink all the Guarana i wanted. If I would have received 100 bucks for spending cash, because you can't have a job while training 24/7. I couldn't have played in the NCAA.


That stops people.

 

[BioHawk]

I find it difficult to believe coaching is what is holding back US soccer after this many decades.

It is now. We are producing athletic soccer players that are as good as we find in other countries. We just get outcoached almost every time we are equal or superior athletically.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

As someone who got sent to South America as a 15 year old. We have been doing that for years.


Here is the back end of the problem you bring up:


If you go somewhere, and you are good enough they want to pay you, you have to make the decision on if you want to ever play in the NCAA at that moment. I was able to go to Brazil, I was able to be hosted, I got some small gifts, I went to training. I could drink all the Guarana i wanted. If I would have received 100 bucks for spending cash, because you can't have a job while training 24/7. I couldn't have played in the NCAA.


That stops people.

Is that still true in soccer, because I'm under the impression that even in the US, while some people make it out of the NCAA to the pros, a more reliable way to the pros is the academy route.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It is now. We are producing athletic soccer players that are as good as we find in other countries. We just get outcoached almost every time we are equal or superior athletically.

It's not just athleticism and coaching. It's skill on the ball. . . touch.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Is that still true in soccer, because I'm under the impression that even in the US, while some people make it out of the NCAA to the pros, a more reliable way to the pros is the academy route.

I believe that is true. To be fair, im.also the peak of the "you have to get a 4 year degree to be anything in this world" generation.



There were many routes someone could consider. Stay here, I have to believe a "FC Dallas" is every bit as capable as anything in our hemisphere, in my day it was the Vardars, and Scott ghallengers, and Busch, and Madisen 56ers, and windy city pride and Chicago fire, I don't know today's world.


Say F school, go play, make it as far as you can and get a degree without playing if it really means that to you.


Move to a small country, declare citizenship, make peanuts playing in the league but play soccer and live on an island. Try for the national team of "st lucia".

 

[sober_teacher]

Kids play youth soccer, because it's fun and fairly easy to play for beginners. But kids generally don't dream of being a professional soccer player or hang posters of their favorite players in their room. For 99.9% of kids playing soccer, high school varsity is the ceiling. In other countries, kids are given soccer balls at birth.

All 3 of my boys played soccer. The most talented one quit after age 14 because none of his friends were playing. Th other two went on to play varsity soccer in HS. When we went to the games, there were maybe 100 fans watching - mostly family. If you went to a HS football or basketball game there were thousands of fans.

In every other sport, the US mops the floor with Uruguay. Football, basketball, golf, tennis, wrestling, baseball, etc. But not soccer. You only need 10 guys in a country that dreams about being a soccer player.

As much as anything, a HUGE part of this imo is that we sucked for so long in soccer…we went from 1950-1990 without qualifying for a World Cup! Multiple attempts at domestic leagues that failed, US Soccer was atrocious as an organization, etc. for all the many deserved gripes about MLS, it also bears reminding that it’s only 30 years old. So while we’ve been attempting to create a soccer culture here, it’s been an uphill struggle against our more established and successful pro leagues for attention.

So much of how youth sports is organized here simply doesn’t work for soccer - those are ultimately feeder programs for college and then the pro leagues…and in soccer, we’ve seen too many times where clubs don’t want our college grads typically because they just haven’t developed well enough, and they don’t want to spend that kind of time when they’ve got academy programs filled with teenagers.

Part of why we look at this current squad as a “golden generation” is that it’s really the first generation of players who have started to come up thru academy programs either here (flawed tho they are, still better than they used to be) or abroad. Several saw playing time drop this past season for a variety of reasons, but we still have more players, at major clubs, than we ever have before…and most are 25 and under. Robinson for example is rapidly climbing the list of best fullbacks in the premier league. Pulisic made a club change after stalling out at chelsea and had a career year.

There’s lots to get excited about, but games like last night also show we’ve still got lots to work on.

 

[TonyTheTiger.1865]

Imagine Tyrek hill and Cooper DeJean if they had been focused on soccer from the time they could walk.

 

[Dr. Phil Seuss]

I’m sure it has already been said, but the problem with American soccer is that we have turned it into an upper middle class sport where it costs significant amounts of money to play at high levels. There are no fields in the ghettos, there are no AAU teams recruiting penniless talents to put them on a global stage.

If the best athletes here grew up playing soccer, the United States would impose one of the greatest dynasties in the history of sport on the rest of the world.

 

[Flie]

Where are all of the 5'6" 150 lb premier athletes to lightly jog around a field for 3 hours?

 

[Hawkfan_08]

We do not like soccer as a culture regardless of how much the elites try to ram it down everyone's throat.

Out of genuine curiosity, who is ramming it down your throat?

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

I’m sure it has already been said, but the problem with American soccer is that we have turned it into an upper middle class sport where it costs significant amounts of money to play at high levels. There are no fields in the ghettos, there are no AAU teams recruiting penniless talents to put them on a global stage.

If the best athletes here grew up playing soccer, the United States would impose one of the greatest dynasties in the history of sport on the rest of the world.

You should check out what Benny Brackett is doing with "Kick it forward" here in Iowa. Sounds like something you might support.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

My entirely superficial take is Berhalter dresses like a locker room attendant. Looks like a slob slacker. I don’t know the team dynamic but he doesn’t look like coach material.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

Where are all of the 5'6" 150 lb premier athletes to lightly jog around a field for 3 hours?

Man, I'm really tired of this type of message about soccer. It's just not true.

If I said in baseball you have guys that sit down or do nothing for 1/2 game even when engaged in play. You have guys out of shape that are able to play because they don't play defense anyway. Pitchers who can't stand and throw for more than 6 innings before their arms get tired and don't play for 4 or 5 more days. Then when we get excited on offense we watch a guy stand in a box swinging a stick at a ball.

There is only about 20 minutes of actual action in a 3 hour baseball game? Better get the top notch athletes to scratch their jocks, eat seeds and get mentally engaged to go make sure nobody overthrows 1st base after you haven't touched the ball in 3 innings.

It's dumb to play these games. Just don't post. I don't get why all non-soccer fans have to rip the sport every chance they get. It makes people seem so petty.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Man, I'm really tired of this type of message about soccer. It's just not true.

If I said in baseball you have guys that sit down or do nothing for 1/2 game even when engaged in play. You have guys out of shape that are able to play because they don't play defense anyway. Pitchers who can't stand and throw for more than 6 innings before their arms get tired and don't play for 4 or 5 more days. Then when we get excited on offense we watch a guy stand in a box swinging a stick at a ball.

There is only about 20 minutes of actual action in a 3 hour baseball game? Better get the top notch athletes to scratch their jocks, eat seeds and get mentally engaged to go make sure nobody overthrows 1st base after you haven't touched the ball in 3 innings.

It's dumb to play these games. Just don't post. I don't get why all non-soccer fans have to rip the sport every chance they get. It makes people seem so petty.

That guy couldn't measure the 18 if you gave him a tape measure to do it. Don't let it get you.

 

[SolarHawk]

Because Communist Kickball itself sucks ass!

Lol, says the guy who is clearly a racing fan.

 

[SolarHawk]

I’m a casual European football fan(Go Man U!). It’s fun to get together with the boys and watch a match on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Even if the US national team kicked ass, it would still pale in comparison to the popularity and talent in the Premier league.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

That guy couldn't measure the 18 if you gave him a tape measure to do it. Don't let it get you.

It's not him, specifically. I try not to attack any people, just ideas. I don't get the absolute jealousy, pettiness or hatred for any coverage that soccer rightly gets... especially USA soccer.

I don't think it's much of an argument that the two Untied States teams that garner the most attention are the men's and women's soccer teams on a year round basis. Sure, everyone gets amped for the Olympics but that's once every four years. Nobody could tell us who played in the FIBA world cup, we don't win in baseball or know who is on the team, NHL restricted hockey players and the other athletes we all fall in love with in these games we don't pay attention to them the other 3 years and 350 days between.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

I’m a casual European football fan(Go Man U!). It’s fun to get together with the boys and watch a match on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Even if the US national team kicked ass, it would still pale in comparison to the popularity and talent in the Premier league.

True but that's also why English fans are die hard. Iron sharpens iron.

 

[SolarHawk]

True but that's also why English fans are die hard. Iron sharpens iron.

It’s their NFL.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

It’s their NFL.

As it should be.

Yet our U23 American football team can't even medal.