Worst tradition in wrestling!

[artradley]

I graduated highschool in 2007..not new to the sport bud...ive heard everything there is about wearing singlets, like how gay they are and such..like i said, never heard a wrestler cry about them

Lots of wrestlers don’t like them, your anecdote notwithstanding.

When they don’t have to wear singlets, such as at Who’s Number One, they don’t. So that should tell you something.

More importantly, other kids make fun of the singlets. Just the other day I heard Howie Mandale recount his HS wrestling days as “wearing a girls swimsuit.” It’s not good for the sport, nor is the common attitude that we don’t need to worry about what outsiders think. Because we shouldn’t consider non-wrestlers to be outsiders.

 

[Seth_Olson]

Last thing im gonna say on this topic....I've seen enough horses beaten to death on this board....I'm well aware of lack in numbers in wrestling, that said, kids are held to no accountability by parents, can't be punished by coaches, eat soap, snort rubbers, don't know if they are boy or girl these days..I just have a real hard time grasping that singlets are the problem

 

[wasdt21]

cael getting pick of the litter every year

 

[bawlmerhawk]

Where do you live, Krasnoyarsk?

Yes. Could you tell by my accent?

 

[Inthecircle]

Jesk

Yes. Could you tell by my accent?

 

[Grip220]

Bring back the robes badass.
For what it’s worth the new style shorts can be a bit slippery , I can see that causing slight issues/advantage in certain positions. So it’s either all or none IMO...

 

[crablegs1]

Last thing im gonna say on this topic....I've seen enough horses beaten to death on this board....I'm well aware of lack in numbers in wrestling, that said, kids are held to no accountability by parents, can't be punished by coaches, eat soap, snort rubbers, don't know if they are boy or girl these days..I just have a real hard time grasping that singlets are the problem

 

[Twoooooooo]

I wrestled under the spotlight for every homedual at my highschool. It was a pretty cool experience and never heard anyone bitch about it, including fans. I'm with @Grip220 bring the robes back! I remember we wrestled every year at Marshalltown in a dual tourney. The hosts wore robes and was always envious of those!

 

[artradley]

Bring back the robes badass.
For what it’s worth the new style shorts can be a bit slippery , I can see that causing slight issues/advantage in certain positions. So it’s either all or none IMO...

Agree with the robes, but the slippery shorts comment doesn’t make sense.

One thing that should be banned is spandex leggings that some kids wear. Those are slippery and make all leg attacks difficult. I’m surprised the entire OSU team doesn’t wear them...

 

[Grip220]

Agree with the robes, but the slippery shorts comment doesn’t make sense.

One thing that should be banned is spandex leggings that some kids wear. Those are slippery and make all leg attacks difficult. I’m surprised the entire OSU team doesn’t wear them...

Art , Im sorry It does not make sense to you because you disagree. That does not mean its not true and as I said IMO you have yours I have mine. I have my own reasons if you want to get into a debate about it I will just make one statement. We wrestlers have all experienced a loose pair of shorts/tshirt get caught up in our fingers during practice/live goes. A singlet has less tendancy to do that and there is no debate. As I said I have no problem if both wrestlers are wearing the same thing.

 

[artradley]

Art , Im sorry It does not make sense to you because you disagree. That does not mean its not true and as I said IMO you have yours I have mine. I have my own reasons if you want to get into a debate about it I will just make one statement. We wrestlers have all experienced a loose pair of shorts/tshirt get caught up in our fingers during practice/live goes. A singlet has less tendancy to do that and there is no debate. As I said I have no problem if both wrestlers are wearing the same thing.

I think I just don't understand what you're saying. Currently, from the waist down they have very slick material that's tight on the skin. With shorts the material is generally less slick, and less tight. I don't follow how you think that the new style shorts would be "slippery."

To make sure we’re talking about the same thing, here’s a new NJ uni:

 

[russelscout]

Last thing im gonna say on this topic....I've seen enough horses beaten to death on this board....I'm well aware of lack in numbers in wrestling, that said, kids are held to no accountability by parents, can't be punished by coaches, eat soap, snort rubbers, don't know if they are boy or girl these days..I just have a real hard time grasping that singlets are the problem

You have a hard time grasping that a young kid or a slightly overweight kid may not want to wear skin tight clothing? What world do you live in where kids, especially junior high kids, don't feel insecure about almost everything? That has nothing to do with parents and accountability. Absolutely nothing. You sound pretty pompous suggesting it is.

The whole idea is about getting kids to be willing to give our sport a shot or stay with our sport. If there is something, like the singlet, that makes it uncomfortable for them, don't blame a kid for giving it up. It is supposed to be fun. Lets not hurt ourselves here. Kids quit because of the singlet or never give it a chance. It doesn't help us to pretend we are superior because we blindly accepted the singlet in the past.

 

[Grip220]

I think I just don't understand what you're saying. Currently, from the waist down they have very slick material that's tight on the skin. With shorts the material is generally less slick, and less tight. I don't follow how you think that the new style shorts would be "slippery."

To make sure we’re talking about the same thing, here’s a new NJ uni:

Art did your hand ever get caught up in another guy’s shorts at practice?… As I said I am fine with the uniform change all or none IMO. I can tell you this internationally I dont see the singlets going anywhere...

 

[russelscout]

Art did your hand ever get caught up in another guy’s shorts at practice?… As I said I am fine with the uniform change all or none IMO. I can tell you this internationally I dont see the singlets going anywhere...

I think most of the time the guys on the international level are going to stick with the sport... just saying.

 

[artradley]

Art did your hand ever get caught up in another guy’s shorts at practice?… As I said I am fine with the uniform change all or none IMO. I can tell you this internationally I dont see the singlets going anywhere...

Okay, well that’s a different concern. I specifically was referring to your “slippery” comment. I didn’t wrestle, but my son wrestled for ten years and I ran our local youth program for eight.

I will say the club rules at the time were to avoid loose fitting clothes for the reason you mentioned regarding safety. But styles at that time caused all the boys to wear baggy shirts and long, baggy, basketball shorts.

I thought the concerns made sense, but several years into it, it occurred to me that while for every minute of competition on the mat, boys spend between two to four hours live wrestling in practice - wearing baggy clothes - yet I never encountered a single clothing related injury.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that the concerns are overblown. Now that two piece unis are legal in HS, I think it will soon become the norm.

 

[Inthecircle]

[

Lots of wrestlers don’t like them, your anecdote notwithstanding.

When they don’t have to wear singlets, such as at Who’s Number One, they don’t. So that should tell you something.

More importantly, other kids make fun of the singlets. Just the other day I heard Howie Mandale recount his HS wrestling days as “wearing a girls swimsuit.” It’s not good for the sport, nor is the common attitude that we don’t need to worry about what outsiders think. Because we shouldn’t consider non-wrestlers to be outsiders.

QUOTE="Twoooooooo, post: 6300351, member: 89844"]I wrestled under the spotlight for every homedual at my highschool. It was a pretty cool experience and never heard anyone bitch about it, including fans. I'm with @Grip220 bring the robes back! I remember we wrestled every year at Marshalltown in a dual tourney. The hosts wore robes and was always envious of those![/QUOTE]
Ah yes, Marshalltown. Blue with a red belt.
I am ok with no singlets in Jr. High, however, this could only be implemented through each school.
The individual state athletics department could inforce, I guess?
How likely is this going to happen?
There are a couple of colleges at Nationals where the two piece uniform is wore. However, the NCAA is not going to inforce it.
The international community would not mandate the change or even consider it because of all the countries involved. The IOC, no.
Then you have all of the little kids K-6.
I don’t even know where to began?
As far as outsiders who hurt the feelings of our kids, poke fun and make jokes about singlets, perhaps, they should embrace the culture of wrestling?
My personal opinion is that our society has made the minority a majority and our kids, for the most part, embrace this. So let’s strive to
have the community outside of wrestling accept the way we dress.
How do you quantify a lot of wrestlers don’t like them? This statement is extremely arbitrary. As far as the supporting statement, “such as at Who’s Number One.” Those uniforms are provided by ASICS to the competitors. Therefore, the participants are not making this choice.
IMO the the inferences stated to support your argument,
are not strong enough.

 

[artradley]

Ah yes, Marshalltown. Blue with a red belt.
I am ok with no singlets in Jr. High, however, this could only be implemented through each school.
The individual state athletics department could inforce, I guess?
How likely is this going to happen?
There are a couple of colleges at Nationals where the two piece uniform is wore. However, the NCAA is not going to inforce it.
The international community would not mandate the change or even consider it because of all the countries involved. The IOC, no.
Then you have all of the little kids K-6.
I don’t even know where to began?
As far as outsiders who hurt the feelings of our kids, poke fun and make jokes about singlets, perhaps, they should embrace the culture of wrestling?
My personal opinion is that our society has made the minority a majority and our kids, for the most part, embrace this. So let’s strive to
have the community outside of wrestling accept the way we dress.
How do you quantify a lot of wrestlers don’t like them? This statement is extremely arbitrary. As far as the supporting statement, “such as at Who’s Number One.” Those uniforms are provided by ASICS to the competitors. Therefore, the participants are not making this choice.
IMO the the inferences stated to support your argument,
are not strong enough.

I’m just advocating what has already happened in HS - give them a choice. I suspect if youth clubs start giving them a choice, eventually it will take over. Maybe I’m wrong, which is fine. But we can’t find out who’s right until the singlet is no longer forced on them.

 

[Grip220]

I think most of the time the guys on the international level are going to stick with the sport... just saying.

Im not sure what your saying.

 

[russelscout]

[

QUOTE="Twoooooooo, post: 6300351, member: 89844"]
As far as outsiders who hurt the feelings of our kids, poke fun and make jokes about singlets, perhaps, they should embrace the culture of wrestling?
My personal opinion is that our society has made the minority a majority and our kids, for the most part, embrace this. So let’s strive to
have the community outside of wrestling accept the way we dress.
How do you quantify a lot of wrestlers don’t like them? This statement is extremely arbitrary. As far as the supporting statement,

Wouldn't it make sense to go the path of least resistance here? Kids quit because of the singlet. Doesn't matter if it is 1 million or 100. This is true. How many kids would quit because we didn't have the singlet anymore? I can't see why someone would. Wouldn't the most logical thing be to go the route where we don't lose kids? So why are you insisting that the wrestling community marries itself to the singlet? I don't get that.

 

[russelscout]

Im not sure what your saying.

I was saying it really doesn't matter at that point. Those guys are the very peak and probably care more about efficiency than anything else.

 

[Grip220]

I was saying it really doesn't matter at that point. Those guys are the very peak and probably care more about efficiency than anything else.

I was not referring to the senior level guys I was talking about all International age groups. They embrace the sport the way it is and all that goes with it, including a traditional none envasive uniform and that includes the kids.

 

[russelscout]

I was not referring to the senior level guys I was talking about all International age groups. They embrace the sport the way it is and all that goes with it, including a traditional none envasive uniform and that includes the kids.

Well and thats fine. No one needs to convince Gable Stevenson to wear a singlet at cadet and junior worlds. However, if I have a kid who is overweight and never wrestled in his life, its going to be a hard sell. In scholastic wrestling we should be trying to increase participation as much as possible.

Look around at Iowa. There are Junior High and High School coaches that are struggling to get numbers. We should be making it easier on them to get kids out, not harder.

Also I truly believe in the lessons and skills you gain from wrestling. There are many heavy kids who need wrestling much more than wrestling needs them. As someone who has been around Jr high, and high school quite a bit, I think this is a major barrier for us to keep those kids out. And who knows? Maybe those heavy kids could go on to be a champ or placer at state. Why miss out on that possibility because we insist on the singlet when there is an alternative?

 

[Herkuleez5]

I like the singlet but I am also not completely against the two piece uniform if it grows numbers. The one thing I do believe however is kids use this as an excuse because they are lazy or afraid of hard work. Even with the two piece uniforms the top/shirt is still or should be fairly tight so I don't see how this helps with body issues.

 

[russelscout]

I like the singlet but I am also not completely against the two piece uniform if it grows numbers. The one thing I do believe however is kids use this as an excuse because they are lazy or afraid of hard work. Even with the two piece uniforms the top/shirt is still or should be fairly tight so I don't see how this helps with body issues.

Ever seen a heavyweight have to wear a t-shirt under his singlet to hold his man boobs in? I have. I have seen it more than once. Rash guard helps with that.

 

[Herkuleez5]

Ever seen a heavyweight have to wear a t-shirt under his singlet to hold his man boobs in? I have. I have seen it more than once. Rash guard helps with that.

Is this an argument? I'm just saying it is still a tight fitting shirt that does not hide that you are fat or have man tits so to me most of those kids will still not wrestle because of that. I am not against you as I stated I am fine with it if it gets numbers up.

 

[Grip220]

Again Im fine with the two piece also and Im an advocate for almost anything that grows the sport.

 

[russelscout]

Is this an argument? I'm just saying it is still a tight fitting shirt that does not hide that you are fat or have man tits so to me most of those kids will still not wrestle because of that. I am not against you as I stated I am fine with it if it gets numbers up.

Well if its not embarrassing to them why do they wear a shirt Herkuleez? fashion statement? You think a kid likes wearing that when everyone else on his team does not. No it doesn't hide the fact that a kid is over weight. Neither does wearing a t-shirt in a swimming pool but it does provide enough comfort to kids that they would rather do that than show their bare chest.

 

[merr6267]

Here is what I wrote to our coaches last year when we were buying new uniforms. The topic of 2 piece came up and here was my response to the rest of our coaching staff:

I agree that the 2 piece uniforms are not my favorite, BUT, I see a lot of potential upside for the sport overall if the trend of the wrestling uniform goes that way. The 2 piece is now becoming mainstream and the kids of the next generation now have one less excuse to try wrestling.


We all know that kids will come up with any excuse to not try something if they think it’s uncool. The oldest joke about wrestling is that you wear silly looking tights and you roll around with sweaty guys. This move potentially removes some of that stigma and might just sway one or two kids to give it a try. If we get one additional kid each year, I see it as a win. If the sport over USA gets one more kid per school to try it out because it doesn’t look ridiculous, that’s a huge win overall. There are 10,597 scholastic wrestling teams nationwide. One more kid on each team is a big deal.


Having lived in Iowa for a while (I live in Michigan, for context) I saw the different look that wresting has there vs. here. While we have a decent wrestling culture here, the general population has very little exposure to it. In Iowa, everyone has had some exposure. Wrestling in Iowa is looked at much more like baseball is around here. Most everyone in America has played baseball on some level, and little league baseball is about as mainstream to kids as anything else. In Iowa, not everyone wrestled in high school, and not everyone follows high school or college wrestling, but most people have either tried it in little league, middle school, HS or have a close family member that has or does.


This silly little uniform thing could go a long way toward the public perception of wrestling over a generation. It may not happen overnight, but if a few more kids try it in school this year (whether they stick with it or not) they might be more apt to get their kids into it in 15 years.


Sorry for the dissertation, but I’ve been hearing and reading these discussions by some high level wrestling people for a few years now.

Phill

 

[russelscout]

Here is what I wrote to our coaches last year when we were buying new uniforms. The topic of 2 piece came up and here was my response to the rest of our coaching staff:

I agree that the 2 piece uniforms are not my favorite, BUT, I see a lot of potential upside for the sport overall if the trend of the wrestling uniform goes that way. The 2 piece is now becoming mainstream and the kids of the next generation now have one less excuse to try wrestling.


We all know that kids will come up with any excuse to not try something if they think it’s uncool. The oldest joke about wrestling is that you wear silly looking tights and you roll around with sweaty guys. This move potentially removes some of that stigma and might just sway one or two kids to give it a try. If we get one additional kid each year, I see it as a win. If the sport over USA gets one more kid per school to try it out because it doesn’t look ridiculous, that’s a huge win overall. There are 10,597 scholastic wrestling teams nationwide. One more kid on each team is a big deal.


Having lived in Iowa for a while (I live in Michigan, for context) I saw the different look that wresting has there vs. here. While we have a decent wrestling culture here, the general population has very little exposure to it. In Iowa, everyone has had some exposure. Wrestling in Iowa is looked at much more like baseball is around here. Most everyone in America has played baseball on some level, and little league baseball is about as mainstream to kids as anything else. In Iowa, not everyone wrestled in high school, and not everyone follows high school or college wrestling, but most people have either tried it in little league, middle school, HS or have a close family member that has or does.


This silly little uniform thing could go a long way toward the public perception of wrestling over a generation. It may not happen overnight, but if a few more kids try it in school this year (whether they stick with it or not) they might be more apt to get their kids into it in 15 years.


Sorry for the dissertation, but I’ve been hearing and reading these discussions by some high level wrestling people for a few years now.

Phill

This is really it. Like you, I don't really care for the two piece uniform in look and function. However, I have seen too many kids who understandably see it as social suicide. Each school around here seems to have their one, two or even a handful of kids who were born and raised with a singlet on. They don't need convincing. Unfortunately we don't have enough of those kids to fill a lineup or even dream of having depth at most 2A and 1A schools. Anything that is going to make the slightest difference in getting kids out is worth it to me.

 

[Inthecircle]

Ok the old guy is way out of touch. When I was a kid I wore shorts and a tee shirt. We couldn’t afford a singlet. Who is forcing singlets on kids? They have a choice.
When in JR high we had the full leggings singlet top. It was this way until my Jr year of high school when we got singlets and everyone was over the top happy. As a matter of fact to get those singlets, new warmups and a new mat our coach contracted 150 Acres of corn to de-tassel. The whole team joined and we earned it all. We had the coolest mat within a 100 miles.
I was ignorant to the whole topic I guess. I still like singlets and think the should be used. If you don’t want to put on a pair of gym shorts and a tee-shirt. Call me insensitive.

 

[artradley]

Who is forcing singlets on kids? They have a choice.

Seriously? If your team uniform is a singlet, that’s what you have to wear. If the league rules are a singlet, that’s what you wear. Where in the world do you get the idea that kids can wear whatever they want?

And why do you think that your choice when you were a child is the only logical choice for kids today?

 

[russelscout]

Ok the old guy is way out of touch. When I was a kid I wore shorts and a tee shirt. We couldn’t afford a singlet. Who is forcing singlets on kids? They have a choice.
When in JR high we had the full leggings singlet top. It was this way until my Jr year of high school when we got singlets and everyone was over the top happy. As a matter of fact to get those singlets, new warmups and a new mat our coach contracted 150 Acres of corn to de-tassel. The whole team joined and we earned it all. We had the coolest mat within a 100 miles.
I was ignorant to the whole topic I guess. I still like singlets and think the should be used. If you don’t want to put on a pair of gym shorts and a tee-shirt. Call me insensitive.

As @artradley just said I don't know of any scholastic teams that have a choice. If they want to wrestle they have to wear the established uniform.

It sounds like you were happy and accepted those changes your junior year. Progress is good. Why should there be no further progress then? We now have better tech to allow a fabrics that don't get tangled. That is a good thing. You are glorifying the "good ole days" but you also accepted and wanted change back then. Hell, you even de-tasseled to get it.

I am surprised peoples need to associate wrestling with the singlet, when it is one thing that we are continually lampooned for by the rest of the world.

Take a look at basketball. They have continually and willingly made changes to keep up with cultural standards. Why can't wrestling?

 

[texas twister]

Taking a different direction - worst tradition (rule) in wrestling is international one and done rule. Loss your first match - go home (basically).

 

[IAChief32]

Taking a different direction - worst tradition (rule) in wrestling is international one and done rule. Loss your first match - go home (basically).

And when someone says something like this is not cool, we always see at least one tough guy comment “We’ll that’s easy, just don’t lose. If Gable could keep everybody from scoring on him, others can at least win all their matches.”

 

[bluroptimo]

Problem with two piece:
How long before someone’s shorts get pulled down or shirt pulled up? That’s going to be embarrassing.

Not to mention fingers getting tangled twisted and mangled in loose fabric shorts.

Upside to singlet:
Can wear a tight T-shirt under if uncomfortable about back hair, body image, etc.

Attracts kids to the sport who are physical specimens. Kid may not know enough to win all the time but gets to show off bowling ball shoulders.

As far as keeping up with basketball trends...what’s basketball?

 

[russelscout]

Problem with two piece:
How long before someone’s shorts get pulled down or shirt pulled up? That’s going to be embarrassing.

Not to mention fingers getting tangled twisted and mangled in loose fabric shorts.

Upside to singlet:
Can wear a tight T-shirt under if uncomfortable about back hair, body image, etc.

Attracts kids to the sport who are physical specimens. Kid may not know enough to win all the time but gets to show off bowling ball shoulders.

How does Jiu Jitsu get by with it without such horrible events. The shorts used don't get tangled as well as the older kinds of fabric.

I don't see being able to wear a t-shirt under a singlet as an upside considering the alternative is to actually have a shirt with sleaves on it.

How about we try to attract all kids, not just fit ones. Most kids don't reach that kind of maturity in 7th grade. I was a short tub in 7th grade. It wouldn't be until my junior year that I had muscles I actually could show off.

 

[bluroptimo]

I think there’s a wrestling fashion angle here that needs to get built into the next Zoolander. I don’t see any other way of settling this.

 

[artradley]

Problem with two piece:
How long before someone’s shorts get pulled down or shirt pulled up? That’s going to be embarrassing.

Not to mention fingers getting tangled twisted and mangled in loose fabric shorts.

Upside to singlet:
Can wear a tight T-shirt under if uncomfortable about back hair, body image, etc.

Attracts kids to the sport who are physical specimens. Kid may not know enough to win all the time but gets to show off bowling ball shoulders.

As far as keeping up with basketball trends...what’s basketball?

As I mentioned earlier, kids wrestle several hours live in practice for each minute they're in a match, usually with shorts and t -shirts, without this problem. And they've been doing it for years. The theory has been tested and disproven.

 

[bluroptimo]

As I mentioned earlier, kids wrestle several hours live in practice for each minute they're in a match, usually with shorts and t -shirts, without this problem. And they've been doing it for years. The theory has been tested and disproven.

Bull.

I've seen hands and fingers tangled in regular shirts and shorts in practice more than once this season. I had ligaments torn in a finger because it got tangled; I still can't pinch that finger all the way to my palm so it's hard to make a tight fist with that hand.

And I've seen shorts come down, just this week I saw a kids butt crack plain as day and I'd rather him not have that happen while competing in front of peers.

But like I said Derek Zoolander is the only one who can lay this one to rest.

 

[Herkuleez5]

Well if its not embarrassing to them why do they wear a shirt Herkuleez? fashion statement? You think a kid likes wearing that when everyone else on his team does not. No it doesn't hide the fact that a kid is over weight. Neither does wearing a t-shirt in a swimming pool but it does provide enough comfort to kids that they would rather do that than show their bare chest.

Sorry I did not describe it good enough in my response. I meant that the top of the two piece uniform is tight fitting and therefore kids would still be afraid to wear it because it would not hide their physique. My opinion and nothing else, as stated earlier I am all for anything that gets kids in the sport.