WWII movie thread in honor of Memorial Day

[Lone Clone]

Update on "The Great Escape"......after I ordered it, I decided to check and see if we stil had it, since I knew we had once had the paperback. There is was, exactly on the shelf where it should have been. So I'm going to end up with two copies.

Anybody want the extra? I'll give it to whoever pays the postage.

Meanwhile, I started re-reading it. Right away, one of my questions was resolved. Somebody posted that the Americans had been moved from the camp before the escape took place, but that was not reflected in the movie because it was aimed at American audiences. I thought I remembered reading about the actual escape in the book. Well, it's no mystery: Paul Brickhill, the author, was an Australian fighter pilot, not an American.

He says in the forward that he was in charge of the elaborate warning system that let the tunnelers know when the ferrets were coming, but "Big X" barred him from the escape itself because he was claustrophobic. That interests me, too. I would think that the incredibly tight confines of a Spitfire cockpit might be a problem for a claustrophobic.

 

[h-hawk]

(In summation) Americans had helped with the early tunneling but had been moved before the escape was attempted. No Americans were involved in the actual escape because they had been moved before the tunnel was completed. Americans were in movie to sell the film because American audiences would not be expected to support film about WWII featuring foreign actors. The nationality of the author has nothing to do with it if that is what LC was inferring.

Brickhill also wrote the excellent The Dam Busters which I recommend highly. This book is about the British heavy bomber squadron which carried the dam buster devices and other special bomb loads.

Brickhill was probably OK in fighter planes due to glass canopy overhead as opposed to the dark recesses of a small tunnel lit by candles and/or homemade lighting system. (My theory.)

 

[Lone Clone]

(In summation) Americans had helped with the early tunneling but had been moved before the escape was attempted. No Americans were involved in the actual escape because they had been moved before the tunnel was completed. Americans were in movie to sell the film because American audiences would not be expected to support film about WWII featuring foreign actors. The nationality of the author has nothing to do with it if that is what LC was inferring.

Brickhill also wrote the excellent The Dam Busters which I recommend highly. This book is about the British heavy bomber squadron which carried the dam buster devices and other special bomb loads.

Brickhill was probably OK in fighter planes due to glass canopy overhead as opposed to the dark recesses of a small tunnel lit by candles and/or homemade lighting system. (My theory.)

I think you misunderstood me. The nationality of the author actually has everything to do with the point I was making. I said I had read the book many decades ago and was surprised when you wrote that the Americans had been relocated before the actual escape, because that wasn't the way I remembered the book. My confusion was because I was under the incorrect impression that Brickhill was an American. When I discovered he was an Aussie, that resolved the apparent conflict between my memory and your comment.

"The Dam Busters" is indeed a good book, and it was a pretty good movie, too.

The claustrophobia thing is just a case of different degrees, I think. Obviously, being where you can see the sky is a hell of a lot different situation than being buried alive. However, one aspect of the affliction for a lot of people is a fear of being constrained, which would certainly be the case in a cramped airplane cockpit.

 

[downtown hawk redux]

The Pacific was decent. If I'd never seen Band of Brothers I'd probably say good. It's just that Band of Brothers was so good there was no way The Pacific could follow it up.

I think they're really different presentations. BOB focuses on a unit largely and where they went from D-Day to the Bulge and throughout Northwestern Europe. There's no question about it being the gold standard for a WWII min-series or whatever you want to call it.

That said, I rewatched the Pacific and I agree, judged on its own, it is much better than it gets credit for. I think it's about something different than BOB though. Attrition and the horrible conditions and the complete slaughterhouse nature of the Pacific War against a fanatical foe. The Pel

As far as mini series goes-"The Pacific" was pretty good, in my opinion..

Fan of quite a few other movies already mentioned..Would like to add "Midway" to the impressive lists.

eliu three-episode arc and Okinawa are very good and as gripping as anything in BOB. The scene of Sledge in Okinawa caring for the mortally wounded civilian women who wanted him to shoot her is haunting. So is Sledge coming home and collapsing on a hunting trip with his father who understood what war does to someone. The Basilone story is good too. Admittedly there were a couple of episodes (Australia comes to mind) that maybe weren't necessary, but I've come to appreciate that series in maybe a different way than BOB.

I did have one quibble, I guess watching Basilone get shot on Iwo Jima was more dramatic, but he was actually killed by a mortar shell at the edge of the first airfield taken.

Update on "The Great Escape"......after I ordered it, I decided to check and see if we stil had it, since I knew we had once had the paperback. There is was, exactly on the shelf where it should have been. So I'm going to end up with two copies.

Anybody want the extra? I'll give it to whoever pays the postage.

Meanwhile, I started re-reading it. Right away, one of my questions was resolved. Somebody posted that the Americans had been moved from the camp before the escape took place, but that was not reflected in the movie because it was aimed at American audiences. I thought I remembered reading about the actual escape in the book. Well, it's no mystery: Paul Brickhill, the author, was an Australian fighter pilot, not an American.

He says in the forward that he was in charge of the elaborate warning system that let the tunnelers know when the ferrets were coming, but "Big X" barred him from the escape itself because he was claustrophobic. That interests me, too. I would think that the incredibly tight confines of a Spitfire cockpit might be a problem for a claustrophobic.

 

[downtown hawk redux]

I think you misunderstood me. The nationality of the author actually has everything to do with the point I was making. I said I had read the book many decades ago and was surprised when you wrote that the Americans had been relocated before the actual escape, because that wasn't the way I remembered the book. My confusion was because I was under the incorrect impression that Brickhill was an American. When I discovered he was an Aussie, that resolved the apparent conflict between my memory and your comment.

"The Dam Busters" is indeed a good book, and it was a pretty good movie, too.

The claustrophobia thing is just a case of different degrees, I think. Obviously, being where you can see the sky is a hell of a lot different situation than being buried alive. However, one aspect of the affliction for a lot of people is a fear of being constrained, which would certainly be the case in a cramped airplane cockpit.

No, flying in a cockpit would not be a problem for most claustrophobic cases, save for someone who was severely afflicted. The basis for the fear is being trapped with no way to get out or being helpless and having no power to get out. A canopy could be slid back and you can see the sky around you and most importantly, you are in control of that situation, so flying a fighter plane would make that condition minimal or non-existent for most

Now, in the course of a dogfight, a canopy could jam I suppose, creating that situation, but that wouldn't be good for someone who wasn't claustrophobic either. As long as a claustrophobic has a way to get out, control in other words, then it's not an impediment for most. A tunnel, yeah, I think that would be a huge problem by comparison because it brings the whole buried alive stigma into play, perhaps a claustrophobic's greatest fear. I'm not really claustrophobic, but I'm not sure I could do that. In fact, was Danny, (can't remember the names -- been a while since I read it -- Charles Bronson in the movie) one of the Tunnel Kings, claustrophobic?

 

[h-hawk]

LC -

 

[rchawk]

LC -

 

[rchawk]

"The Gallant Hours" from 1960, James Cagney in one of his later appearances. He plays Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey" in a movie about the terrible naval combat around Guadalcanal. Halsey takes over when the US Navy is getting it's butt kicked by the Imperial Japanese Navy. That was the same campaign the Sullivan brothers were killed in.

The movie is late enough that is has heroes and still a tough edge to it. Plus it has Cagney.

"Operation Burma" has been mentioned. Made late in the war it is gritty and I think a step up from the usual propaganda movies. "Twelve O'Clock High" is a great dramatic performance and according to veterans of the Eighth Air Force, pretty accurate.

 

[Lone Clone]

"The Gallant Hours" from 1960, James Cagney in one of his later appearances. He plays Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey" in a movie about the terrible naval combat around Guadalcanal. Halsey takes over when the US Navy is getting it's butt kicked by the Imperial Japanese Navy. That was the same campaign the Sullivan brothers were killed in.

The movie is late enough that is has heroes and still a tough edge to it. Plus it has Cagney.

"Operation Burma" has been mentioned. Made late in the war it is gritty and I think a step up from the usual propaganda movies. "Twelve O'Clock High" is a great dramatic performance and according to veterans of the Eighth Air Force, pretty accurate.

Best line from "Operation Burma": "And...my name ain't Joe."

For an Errol Flynn movie, it's really pretty good. Not that I don't like Errol Flynn movies. I love them. One of my absolute favorite war movies, in fact, is "Desperate Journey" with Flynn, Ronald Reagan, Alan Hale, Arthur Kennedy and Raymond Massey as an evil Nazi. Totally unbelievable but great fun to watch.

"And now for the Pacific and a crack at those Japs!"

As for "12 O'Clock High," I've said here before that it might be the best war movie ever made. There is maybe 30 seconds of combat in the whole damned movie. The rest is basically people talking. And it keeps you riveted from start to finish. Two other things are unusual. There is no love interest or anything remotely resembling a love interest; there is only one female in the cast, a nurse who makes a single brief appearance. (This is different from the book, where Savage was dating a local woman). And while the musical score is powerful, it is played only in the opening and closing moments of the film.

Much of the movie is true, or close to true. Some of the names are barely changed. Of course, the authors combine qualities of various real people, that kind of thing. But the basis of the story and what happened is true, as are some of the incidents that occur. One of the co-authors was the public information officer for the 8th Air Force in England at the time, saw it all happen.

 

[bagdropper]

The Longest Day...it hasn't aged well for me, especially after Saving Private Ryan came out. Pretty difficult to put that large a book into a single 3 hour movie I'd think. But...still a good watch, even with Rommel disappearing in his opening scene halfway through it...I cannot for the life of me figure out how that shot made the final cut of the movie. And hey, it has Irina Demick in it with a classic oops upskirt moment while riding her bicycle.

Battleground still holds up as a very good movie. Marshall Thompson's (Jim Leyton) line to Douglas Fowley (Kipp) about his mother making him brush his teeth every day to make sure they didn't get all ripped out still cracks me up to this day. Great screenwriting...Abner's "beats anything I ever stuck my finger in before"...I use that line myself.

Twelve O'clock High definitely is a great movie. They used composite characters from the book, but it's pretty easy to figure out who Ira Eaker and Frank Armstrong are...Col. Davenport's character was also based on a real group commander, name escapes me right now. Book co-writer Bernie Lay was on Eaker's staff I believe.

They Were Expendable always has been one of my favorites. Also loosely based on real wartime commanders etc. The Brickley/Ryan characters were based on real PT boat officers in the Philippines campaign.

There's dozens of others out there I like. Sink The Bismarck, The Dam Busters, The Bridge at Remagen, Das Boot (fantastic), The Americanization of Emily, Battle of Britain - all are some of my favorites. What I'd really like to find is a full length copy of Midway where they 45 or so minutes of the Coral Sea prelude are included.

Big WWII movie fan here, love reading books about it too. Reading The Two-Ocean War by Samuel Elliot Morison right now and just finished off Decision Over Schweinfurt last week.

 

[linkshero]

Came across Defiance on Netflix and watched it with the wife. I was surprised that I had never seen it before. 2008 movie about the Bielski brothers saving Jews in the forests of Belarus. I thought It was pretty good. They did a nice job with weapons portrayal. It was kind of similar to Enemy at the Gates in that it was Soviets vs Germany, and the interpretation of socialization during the war. I think the job those two movies did adding in the 'love interests' was decent because it shows how dehumanizing war can be. The same aspect that made Pearl Harbor almost unwatchable.

Wife also watched SPR with me yesterday. She had never been able to make it through the beach landing. She was pretty upset about the Mellish scene even though I warned her it was going to be bad, when Upham froze. She was shocked by how many famous people were in that movie. I'm not sure too many movies have gone as graphic as that movie did.

 

[cndyman]

I was watching Saving Private Ryan yesterday on AMC......my favorite line of the movie was right before they took out what was left of a radar site.....the one guy say "Cap....I don't feel good about this one"......camera pans to Hanks and moves in on him and he says "when was the last time you felt good about anything" Just the way it was said, and the resolve that followed to take out the site so they didn't ambush anyone after them. In fact that scene had several moments that stand out in the movie. The beginning scene and the last battle...along with Ryan in present day at the grave site get all the props, but the radar site is one of my favorites.

 

[hooper56]

Anyone watch "The Raid" ? A fairly recent movie about the rescue of over 600 American POWs in the Philippines who survived the Bataan Death March. I had never heard of this movie before but I thought it was really good. Good script, compelling story, based on real events, and fine acting.

 

[linkshero]

I was watching Saving Private Ryan yesterday on AMC......my favorite line of the movie was right before they took out what was left of a radar site.....the one guy say "Cap....I don't feel good about this one"......camera pans to Hanks and moves in on him and he says "when was the last time you felt good about anything" Just the way it was said, and the resolve that followed to take out the site so they didn't ambush anyone after them. In fact that scene had several moments that stand out in the movie. The beginning scene and the last battle...along with Ryan in present day at the grave site get all the props, but the radar site is one of my favorites.

That part of the movie was very strong, but subtle. The struggle between Reiben and Miller (Burns and Hanks) built from when he picked him for BAR on his mission, but the assumption is there was history before that even. There was a father son like relationship. Clearly, Hanks respected Reiben, because he chose him by name to be part of the mission, but Reiben was mouthy, and not always willing to follow. Miller and Horvath (Sizemore) were like brothers, and Reiben didn't exactly listen to him either. The scene also showed how much they cared for Wade (Ribisi). There was also foreshadowing of Uphams future performance.

The dichotomy of how Reiben behaved at the antenna, and how he ultimately behaved at the battle in Ramelle was interesting. Especially considering he was a dissident the entire movie, but basically volunteered to be bait on the rabbit. I'm only guessing they showed that to emphasize the willingness of Miller's men to follow him. Even Upham, although ironically, the german that passed Upham on the stairs was ultimately the shooter who took out Miller.

 

[Lone Clone]

Anyone watch "The Raid" ? A fairly recent movie about the rescue of over 600 American POWs in the Philippines who survived the Bataan Death March. I had never heard of this movie before but I thought it was really good. Good script, compelling story, based on real events, and fine acting.

I have not seen the movie, but I've read the book on which it is based, I think.

I mean, I know I've read the book; I think it's the basis for that movie.

"Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides.

Whether it's the basis for the movie or not, it's definitely a book worth reading.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

I also happened to catch SPR again on AMC yesterday (imagine that, they only repeated it all day long).

Holy Cow! I FINALLY got the ending sequence. I had thought Captain Miller for lack of breath was trying to say, "James ... you earned this" when he uttered instead "James ... earn it." NO! He was talking future tense, the rest of Private Ryan's life.

What an incredible message and charge he left the young Private with.

Inspiring really, especially when you consider the same message is applicable to you and I, everyone who has enjoyed freedom through the ultimate sacrifice made by others.

Just a shame freedom is sometimes wasted on clucks like me who don't always get the message straight the first few times! Oh, well ... I'm trying!!!

 

[bagdropper]

That part of the movie was very strong, but subtle. The struggle between Reiben and Miller (Burns and Hanks) built from when he picked him for BAR on his mission, but the assumption is there was history before that even. There was a father son like relationship. Clearly, Hanks respected Reiben, because he chose him by name to be part of the mission, but Reiben was mouthy, and not always willing to follow. Miller and Horvath (Sizemore) were like brothers, and Reiben didn't exactly listen to him either. The scene also showed how much they cared for Wade (Ribisi). There was also foreshadowing of Uphams future performance.

The dichotomy of how Reiben behaved at the antenna, and how he ultimately behaved at the battle in Rommel was interesting. Especially considering he was a dissident the entire movie, but basically volunteered to be bait on the rabbit. I'm only guessing they showed that to emphasize the willingness of Miller's men to follow him. Even Upham, although ironically, the german that passed Upham on the stairs was ultimately the shooter who took out Miller.

Fairly certain that was the guy at the antenna they let go...

 

[h-hawk]

Fairly certain that was the guy at the antenna they let go...

Yeah and it is also the German that Upham executes before letting the others go. That is his attempt to make up for his mistake of urging the release of the Kraut at the radar antenna.

 

[INXS83]

As combat films go, Saving Private Ryan was probably the best ever made -veterans have said the only thing missing was the stench of death.
Two other very good combat films are Battleground and Pork Chop Hill.
I think Band of Brothers is a national treasure. I bet even the creators were surprised at how well it turned out.

A friend of my Dad's survived Omaha beach on D-Day and survived the war, often in allied field hospitals. He was intrigued by the trailers for "Saving Private Ryan" and went to see it with his sons and older grandsons when it came out. The women stayed home.

The minute he heard the bullets pinging off the LST's and then seeing countless GI's getting butchered as the hopper door was lowered caused him to relive that horrible day. He left a trail of puke from his seat out into the aisle leading to the nearest men's room. Cinema staff and his oldest son cleaned him up and calmed him down about 20 minutes later. He eventually was able to return to the screen and watched the rest of the movie. Tears flowing the entire time. He later said the beach landing scene filled his nostrils with the smoke and the stench from that day. He thought about the buddies he lost that day and others. He couldn't decide whether Spielberg was an angel or the devil for bringing this event to life.

 

[linkshero]

It's also amazing how much of the movie the illustrators for Medal of Honor (Frontline and Vanguard) took from this movie (SPR).

 

[INXS83]

Anyone watch "The Raid" ? A fairly recent movie about the rescue of over 600 American POWs in the Philippines who survived the Bataan Death March. I had never heard of this movie before but I thought it was really good. Good script, compelling story, based on real events, and fine acting.

Very good film. Ben Bratt starred. Could have been a huge hit if had been done back in the 50's with some of the stars and directors they had back then. Audiences back then would have ate that story up.

 

[B1GDeal]

I watched most of BoB... love that. The part where the "real" Maj. Dick Winters recalls his grandson asking if he was a war hero and him getting choked up as he replied that he wasn't a hero, but served among hero's... very emotional and powerful.

 

[linkshero]

I watched most of BoB... love that. The part where the "real" Maj. Dick Winters recalls his grandson asking if he was a war hero and him getting choked up as he replied that he wasn't a hero, but served among hero's... very emotional and powerful.

He passed about 4 years ago.

Last spring, Guarnere passed
Heffron and Perconte in 2013
Compton in 2012

I believe as of now, Malarkey is still alive.