I disagree that taking Iowa to the final 4 is equivalent to a championship won at another school. But life is full of opinions, variety is the spice of life, all that crap.
You have to win a championship to be considered the goat?
- Thread starter longliveCS40
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I disagree that taking Iowa to the final 4 is equivalent to a championship won at another school. But life is full of opinions, variety is the spice of life, all that crap.
What’s not really brought up in all this GOAT and championship talk is…what if Iowa’s game vs South Carolina last year was in the championship vs the Final 4 semi-final? Caitlin and Iowa are the only team to beat SC in the last 2 years, so just because Iowa’s victory over SC was one game b4 the championship, doesn’t diminish CC from being the GOAT of college women’s b-ball.
The entire “goat” argument is stupid in my opinion.
I don't know, I think it is a metric, but not THE metric. How that player performs in the greatest of high-pressure situations is the most important factor when it comes to championships. Are they able to carry a team on their back and will that team to a championship? Even if they aren't successful, because even the best players need other players on the team to perform, do they come up big in huge games? Up until now, the brighter the light, the better Clark's performance has been. It doesn't matter that she didn't win, she was great in those games. So, I don't think you can say the number of championships matters as much as how they performed in those games.
they still get the metric counted even for championships they didn't win with a play they made or because of their play in that game.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here but I'm just thinking I can't discount championships completely because it is one of the reasons I think Jordan would have beaten Lebron in every series they might have played against each other. Sure, they both have championships but Jordan never lost. He needed help to win them, but he made it a personal mission to will his team to every championship they won. There is no doubt in my mind that if he didn't take a two year sabbatical the Bulls would have won 8 championships in a row in the 90's. And maybe it's not the championships themselves, but how he managed to win them that matters.
I’m not really following what you’re saying here Hans. Can you clarify knowing that you are trying to explain it to an idiot.
One thing I can guarantee. If Iowa finds a way to win the whole thing, guys like Jay Williams will find a way to move the goal post again.
Win Shares Women's Career Leaders and Records Since 1987-88
| Rank | Player | WS | From | To | Last School |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Maya Moore | 56.56 | 2008 | 2011 | Connecticut |
| 2 | Sylvia Fowles | 49.79 | 2005 | 2008 | Louisiana State |
| 3 | Brittney Griner | 49.28 | 2010 | 2013 | Baylor |
| 4 | Breanna Stewart | 47.86 | 2013 | 2016 | Connecticut |
| 5 | Elena Delle Donne | 47.08 | 2010 | 2013 | Delaware |
| 6 | Tina Charles | 43.86 | 2007 | 2010 | Connecticut |
| 7 | Alysha Clark | 42.73 | 2006 | 2010 | Middle Tennessee |
| 8 | Jessica Davenport | 42.69 | 2004 | 2007 | Ohio State |
| 9 | Chiney Ogwumike | 42.17 | 2011 | 2014 | Stanford |
| 10 | Napheesa Collier | 41.77 | 2016 | 2019 | Connecticut |
| 11 | Courtney Paris | 41.43 | 2006 | 2009 | Oklahoma |
| 12 | Caitlin Clark | 40.91 | 2021 | 2024 | Iowa |
Offensive Win Shares Women's Career Leaders and Records
Since 1987-88
| Rank | Player | OWS | From | To | Last School |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Elena Delle Donne | 39.19 | 2010 | 2013 | Delaware |
| 2 | Caitlin Clark | 36.52 | 2021 | 2024 | Iowa |
| 3 | Brittney Griner | 35.30 | 2010 | 2013 | Baylor |
| 4 | Maya Moore | 34.43 | 2008 | 2011 | Connecticut |
| 5 | Sabrina Ionescu | 33.50 | 2017 | 2020 | Oregon |
| 6 | Megan Herbert | 31.60 | 2010 | 2013 | Central Arkansas |
| 7 | Alysha Clark | 31.31 | 2006 | 2010 | Middle Tennessee |
| 8 | Kelsey Plum | 31.21 | 2014 | 2017 | Washington |
| 9 | Crystal Kelly | 30.94 | 2005 | 2008 | Western Kentucky |
| 10 | Chiney Ogwumike | 30.87 | 2011 | 2014 | Stanford |
| 11 | Breanna Stewart | 30.76 | 2013 | 2016 | Connecticut |
Iowa’s recruits are on average better than I would have guessed. The point still stands though. From an article I read today:
UConn may be down to six or seven players, but it’s a team full of five-stars vs. a team with one in Clark.
Bueckers was the No. 1 overall prospect by ESPN in 2020, Clark was No. 4. Edwards was the No. 23 prospect in 2020. Brady was No. 5 in 2022. In the Class of 2023, Arnold was No. 5 and Shade No. 15.
Affolter, Marshall and Kate Martin were not top-100 prospects. Stuelke was No. 45 in the Class of 2022.
Leistikow's 5 thoughts ahead of Iowa women's basketball vs UConn matchup in Final Four
What emerged from Thursday's media interviews at Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse leading up to this game that's more than Caitlin Clark vs. Paige Bueckers.
www.hawkcentral.com
You can’t be considered the GOAT in boxing, wrestling, or MMA if you don’t win it all, but those are not team sports. To me it is stupid that it is even argued.
Welp, I think today's game is a perfect example of why winning championships, particularly playing well in championship games, goes a long ways toward someone qualifying as a "GOAT." Yeah, CC wasn't on a loaded team, and this was a team loss for sure, but still, she had a chance to play a super outstanding game on the biggest stage to carry her team to a championship, but couldn't. No doubt she's transcended the sport more than anyone else, though, AINEC.
She had 30 points, 8 rebounds, and 5 assists in a national championship game against a team that's lost once in two years.
That's a super outstanding game. No other player, past or present, would put up those numbers against that team while playing with CC's supporting cast.
She's the GOAT and it isn't even close.
Russell is basketball’s greatest WINNER ever. There is no doubt about that.
Using “the current” logic expressed here he would get the greatest basketballer ever… Russell was not that… abs I am a huge Celtic/Russell apologist. Russell was an early “transitionist” of the game of basketball as he placed a premium on defensive skills (shot blocking and rebounds) and he is one of the greatest to ever play the game… he never lost a Game#7 or championship game in his career…but wasn’t the greatest player ever. But no one won more than Bill!
The thing is if she did go to UCONN or something and even led them to like 3 or 4 titles... she's not putting up the numbers she did and guess what there are several uconn players who won that many titles. That's nothing new. No one has done what Caitlin has done. The fact she doesn't have a title is really stupid if you are talking about one player. What's hilarious is the UCONN players from the past who played with 9 other 5 stars who are just jealous and say she can't be the GOAT without a title. Let's see what Taurasi does with this iowa team? I'm pretty confident in saying she wouldn't have done what Caitlin did
I would honestly struggle to come up with a player from throughout women's CBB history who could do what Clark helped Iowa do.
Certainly not Stewart, Bird or Taurasi.
