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Biggest mistakes of Fran era

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Bearhawk0505

HR All-American
Mar 13, 2010
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I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
 
Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:
I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
These points have merit (recognizing that hindsight is 20/20). Fran has done a lot for this program and he's brought this program a long way but he's had a few misses along the way. That being said, we all have along the way.
 
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Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:
I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
2.) Not red-shirting Oleseni? seriously? How many people out of 100 would have been OK with bringing Gabe in the fold in the first place. I'd love to have the guy for a 5th year, but Jebus Christ, 4 years ago everyone would have tripped out over extending his career in lieu of someone else that could have been a recruit THIS year.... Look at Brady Ellingson. There's no reason to believe he doesn't have 4 progressively great years, but the kid is already under the wheels of the bus to a lot of people. If Gabe red-shirted, don't tell me this board wouldn't have lit up about killing a year of eligibility. Brady did it, and he was hammered on around here. I'm not saying I have a bold prediction about Ellingson, but use some perspective here people.

Show me someone who claims they think Oleseni should have been red-shirted WHEN he was a freshman, and I'll show you a liar.

3. ) Who do you have? I've got McCabe, and Oglesby, but every team has one. In the Franimal era there hasn't been an abundance of excess players. I think that argument is best reserved for our favorite local football coach. Maybe I forgot about someone, but I don't think Fran has played the upperclassman incumbency card a whole lot.

Sorry if I got aggressive, but NO ONE said let's red-shirt this kid (and that I'm certain of), and I don't think Fran has played favorites to a fault. However the latter is actually arguable.
 
Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:
I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
So your first two statements were facts???
Who did you complain about it to???
What did Fran say when you complained about it to him? What did Fran tell the Marble family when he chose not to recruit him?
Did Fran not 'recruit' him or not 'offer' him? Big difference....
Man, you know so much, you need to tell us more oh great one!!!
You know so much, why are you talking to us about it! Get with Fran ASAP so he'll quit making these mistakes!!!
You let Fran make these mistakes when you knew about it 2-3 years ago??? Well, then I blame you for our lose today!!!
 
Originally posted by MattFoleyHawk:
Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:
I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
So your first two statements were facts???
Who did you complain about it to???
What did Fran say when you complained about it to him? What did Fran tell the Marble family when he chose not to recruit him?
Did Fran not 'recruit' him or not 'offer' him? Big difference....
Man, you know so much, you need to tell us more oh great one!!!
You know so much, why are you talking to us about it! Get with Fran ASAP so he'll quit making these mistakes!!!
You let Fran make these mistakes when you knew about it 2-3 years ago??? Well, then I blame you for our lose today!!!
Click to expand...
Foley, you got too much free time on your hands to argue semantics of free message board while never actually posting anything about the team/contributing any thoughts. Humility and tolerance are virtues you lack while hypocrisy is a strong suit for you (as we all wish you had kept your word).

As for the OP, hindsight is always 20/20. Morris would have been good but it's under-the-radar players that most teams will say they wish they had recruited. I would imagine Ohio State or really any other B1G team had attempted to recruit White so it can't really be seen as a fault. I would agree with the assessment that Fran plays a few guys too much (Woody and Sapp yesterday but Oglesby over the season this past year). However, it does show he is loyal to his players that put in the work at practice. This will likely continue to improve as I thought Oglesby did not play in nearly as many key situations as McCabe did last year.
 
Morris probably wouldn't have taken an Iowa offer, anyway. He had offers from Michigan, ISU and other P5 teams. I realize there was a Marble factor, but I think it's been pretty vastly overstated here.

Fran offered Niang and Hogue.
 
I opened this thread anticipating different mistakes. To me it's:

1) Fran's use of timeouts especially in late game situations. I know he doesn't like to do it but just look at Fran's overall record in close games. It's not good. There's a reason most coaches call timeouts to group their team.
2) Controlling his temper. Not only does it reflect poorly on Iowa it has given Fran a poor reputation with the refs. Now we are on the bad end of calls more times than not. Plus, the player's mentality falls apart. They get nervous, make mistakes, and shoot poorly. His job is to go out there and put his team in the best position to win the game regardless of how the refs call the game. Teach the players worry less about the refs.
3) This one I'll probably get ribbed a little and it's purely an opinion but with the nature of B1G reffing, Fran should have taught the players to be more physical when the refs aren't calling anything. Hand check, body the players, block out by any means necessary, and generally disrupt the offensive flow. The refs will stop calling fouls eventually. When Fran had a deep bench we should have been out there playing Mich. St. ball on defense. We need an extra "physical" gear. Again, that's purely an opinion.
 
Controlling his temper? How many times has Fran lost it this year, been t'd up, thrown out, then blasted by commentators? He's really toned it down a lot this year in light of what happened with his son. People are only saying that because of his T yesterday, but it was pretty weak.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Morris probably wouldn't have taken an Iowa offer, anyway. He had offers from Michigan, ISU and other P5 teams. I realize there was a Marble factor, but I think it's been pretty vastly overstated here.

Fran offered Niang and Hogue.
Click to expand...

I thought MSU did not offer. Michigan did, but dropped Morris after Walton committed. So maybe there was very little Hoiberg factor involved in getting Morris and just good luck.

The fact is, we have Gesell and Clemmons and neither one is as good as Morris. It showed up yesterday losing to PSU. We also saw our shooting guards weren't that great.

If Fran did not offer, that is a mistake by Fran. Not the 1st one, not the last one. It is easy to see in retrospect, not so easy to see at the time. Fran is paid more money than fans to be right, so I agree with OP that in retrospect, it was a mistake not to go after Morris full guns.
 
Mepo,

Totally agree, Fran has done a much better job controlling it this year. FWIW, I like seeing him get fired up. Lick and Pretty Boy Alford let the Ref's and other coaches run rough shod over us.

That missed called by the zebras yesterday was huge. Hawks should have gotten two on the goal tending and then a technical which gave them another two. (Four point swing). Sometimes wonder what goes through their minds. "Let see, I F'ed up so I'll call a T on their coach to rub salt in the wound because I'm perfect". That four points means we would have been running the clock down and them fouling instead of Uthoff taking a quick jumper before they got the 3 point play to ice it.

Should not have been that close but our shooting was horrific and we did not value the basketball again yesterday. You only get so many possessions so poor passing, not coming to the ball to catch it, big men bringing the ball down instead of keeping it up in traffic -critical mistakes I saw yesterday. Too many turnovers!
 
Originally posted by HawkLogic:
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Morris probably wouldn't have taken an Iowa offer, anyway. He had offers from Michigan, ISU and other P5 teams. I realize there was a Marble factor, but I think it's been pretty vastly overstated here.

Fran offered Niang and Hogue.
Click to expand...

I thought MSU did not offer. Michigan did, but dropped Morris after Walton committed. So maybe there was very little Hoiberg factor involved in getting Morris and just good luck.

The fact is, we have Gesell and Clemmons and neither one is as good as Morris. It showed up yesterday losing to PSU. We also saw our shooting guards weren't that great.

If Fran did not offer, that is a mistake by Fran. Not the 1st one, not the last one. It is easy to see in retrospect, not so easy to see at the time. Fran is paid more money than fans to be right, so I agree with OP that in retrospect, it was a mistake not to go after Morris full guns.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's my understanding. ISU and Michigan both offered both Walton and Morris. When Walton declared for Michigan, the Wolves pulled their offer to Monte and he went to ISU -- might have done, anyway, but when he actually opted for ISU, the Michigan offer was no longer on the table.

Hoiberg offered Gesell, although not Woodbury. ISU was after Jok, but had to back off when it was revealed that Lefty Moore had violated NCAA rules (not suggesting Jok would have gone to Ames rather than Iowa City; I have no idea).

So there are a number of players offered by both schools, and some went one place and some went the other.
 
LOL at the idea of not recruiting a player being a mistake. Is he supposed to follow through on every high school kid in a four state radius?
 
I'm fully supportive of Fran, but...

IMO his biggest mistake was that bizarre first team/second team substitution pattern last year. That bench group really didn't work well together. Thankfully he got away from that.
 
using hindsight to blame the coach for mistakes is a piss poor way to judge a coach, then when he does offer a Elite player, he his put down for even trying, by poster saying " he has slim to none" for a chance at that player, then someone blasts him on a player that has success at the next level.

as for Gabe I was in favor of as RS for GO, he had only 2 maybe 3 years of playing BB when he got here, but Fran only had the Brom/Arch to play the center position and Brommer hurt his knee before the season began and Fran needed Gabe as a backup "limited" at best

there were posters on here who would have screamed bloody murder if Fran had RS'd Gabe, most on here and on other boards didn't even like the Idea of Fran even signing Gabe in the 1st place as most were of the opinion all he ever would get is garbage minutes at best his entire career.
 
Gabe only played 90 minutes his freshman year. He was a raw and athletic big. I don't think anyone would have had an issue with a redshirt if he was barely going to play.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Morris probably wouldn't have taken an Iowa offer, anyway. He had offers from Michigan, ISU and other P5 teams. I realize there was a Marble factor, but I think it's been pretty vastly overstated here.

Fran offered Niang and Hogue.
Click to expand...
Lone, Roy Marble helped recruit him to Ames as he knew Fran was not going to offer him. We would have had a great shot at him.
 
I wouldn't ever object to red shirting someone that wasn't going to play many minutes his first year. It would never be a waste because after his fourth year and he wasn't contributing his scholarship could end. No kid could argue about not getting over four years of free education. This is done by the football team all the time.
 
Originally posted by MoneyintheBanks:
Didn't we only have the one scholarship for Monte Morris' class? And it went to Jok right?


That is correct.
Click to expand...
 
Recruiting misses will happen.

The bigger mistakes are not bringing in a good recruiting assistant because you view yourself as the lead recruiter and not running off recruiting mistakes.
 
Originally posted by packerHawk76:
It wasnt just Iowa that didn't recruit Morris. Michigan and MSU didnt either. Plenty of teams missed
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
So was Beilein just lying for no reason when he said he offered Morris a scholly?
 
Morris had a Michigan offer and TRIED to commit. Walton beat him to it.

the idea that Frans temper affects anything is completely absurd.
 
Originally posted by MattFoleyHawk:
Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:

I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;

1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and
I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.

2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.

3.)
This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
So your first two statements were facts???

Who did you complain about it to???

What did Fran say when you complained about it to him? What did Fran tell the Marble family when he chose not to recruit him?

Did Fran not 'recruit' him or not 'offer' him? Big difference....

Man, you know so much, you need to tell us more oh great one!!!

You know so much, why are you talking to us about it! Get with Fran ASAP so he'll quit making these mistakes!!!

You let Fran make these mistakes when you knew about it 2-3 years ago??? Well, then I blame you for our lose today!!!
Click to expand...

You use way too many question marks & exclamation points, then you spell "loss" incorrectly. If you're going to troll, do it properly. Don't half-ass it. I realize you never bring any substance to this place, especially the bball board, but at least do your job Kilroy Jr.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
The "refs not calling anything" is not Fran's mistake. Those games usually involve "the refs not calling anything" on Iowa's opponent, at least in conference games. That's not a coaching mistake.

This might be a good week to cut the coaches some slack. With all the problems we are having the best season in 18 years (97). I've been massively pessimistic this year but, in the end, we have 12 conference wins, 21 reg season wins and are headed to an invite to the round of 64, for the first time in 9 seasons. That's worth a "job well done" for this year.
 
Originally posted by The Sleeping Dog:
The "refs not calling anything" is not Fran's mistake. Those games usually involve "the refs not calling anything" on Iowa's opponent, at least in conference games. That's not a coaching mistake.

This might be a good week to cut the coaches some slack. With all the problems we are having the best season in 18 years (97). I've been massively pessimistic this year but, in the end, we have 12 conference wins, 21 reg season wins and are headed to an invite to the round of 64, for the first time in 9 seasons. That's worth a "job well done" for this year.
Click to expand...
Uh.....no. The 2005-2006 team had a better season.
 
Originally posted by Bearhawk0505:
I am appreciative of Fran getting Iowa back to an NCAA level. However, there have been a few mistakes made along the way that have limited and will limit the level the program has and will reach that should be open for discussion. They are;
1.) Not recruiting Monte Morris. This has baffled me and I have complained about it for the past few seasons. The Marble family tried to get Fran to recruit him and he chose not to. I know we were after Ulis, but how do you pass on the opening of a player like Morris? You have to try to sign both if you can.
2.) Not redshirting Oleseni. This was amplified by the fact he barely played his freshman season(wasted year). He would have been a monster next year.
3.) This is more of an opinion, but playing too many players and sticking with players undeserving of minutes far to long.

Now that we have a while to wait until we play, this should make for good conversation. At least we will be fresh for the NCAA and hopefully make a run.
Click to expand...
These pale compared to the mistake of you being born.
 
The biggest mistake I would say was probably underestimating how difficult it was to recruit at Iowa after the Lick disaster.

He may have designed his staff a little differently with a major recruiter, and added more Jucos in the first 2 years.

I do believe it would have been much better to Redshirt Gabe, as I have frequently said.

But Fran has done it the right way.

He just had too many kids lost during final decision time to impede some of the progress.
 
You know what I love about this board over the football board? I completely disagree with the foundation of your post, but appreciate the argument. It's line a different world over here..

Evaluating recruiting errors is always hindsight. If you indeed wanted him at the time all the power to you. Of course now it's a mistake, but it's going to happen. I think we agree it was a miss, but not an idiotic mistake - nature of the beast

But the redshirt thing is so much more complicated. Having Gabe for another year would be awesome, but what I take issue with is any suggestion his 1st year was a waste. Can you imagine sitting out for 12 months? How do we know the player we see today is the same as a guy that had redshirted? Didn't he learn things and confidence while his playing time picked up?

I just think too often fans under think red shirts. If a guy is going to play any minutes I would never red shirt him. What he could gain is so much more valuable to me than the potential of even getting to that 5th year.
 
It won't affect the level that the program will reach, but the dumbest thing he has done (or ever will do) was get involved with Anthony Hubbard.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Morris probably wouldn't have taken an Iowa offer, anyway. He had offers from Michigan, ISU and other P5 teams. I realize there was a Marble factor, but I think it's been pretty vastly overstated here.

Fran offered Niang and Hogue.
Click to expand...
No one cares what your opinion is on wether or not he would have committed is. Totally beside the point.

This is not a topic about ISU, go discus that team on the appropriate forum and stop trying trying to steer discussions in the direction of ISU.
 
Originally posted by wyohawk:
LOL at the idea of not recruiting a player being a mistake. Is he supposed to follow through on every high school kid in a four state radius?
Click to expand...
Every one with potential D1 talent yes, absolutely.

Especially one you have an in with.
 
His biggest mistake was not recruiting a PG in the 2015 recruiting class. Baffling. He should have been able to make a decent evaluation of Dickerson early on. Still, even if Dickerson was solid he still needed a PG in the class. Now, Iowa is going to struggle next year (sorry, but they lose one of the better players to put on an Iowa uniform and the best center on the team). The following year they will being playing 2 freshman PG's. Wonderful. That's a recipe for success in the B1G.
 
Originally posted by PhantomFlyer:
His biggest mistake was not recruiting a PG in the 2015 recruiting class. Baffling. He should have been able to make a decent evaluation of Dickerson early on. Still, even if Dickerson was solid he still needed a PG in the class. Now, Iowa is going to struggle next year (sorry, but they lose one of the better players to put on an Iowa uniform and the best center on the team). The following year they will being playing 2 freshman PG's. Wonderful. That's a recipe for success in the B1G.
Click to expand...
Fran did a pretty good job considering Ulis was his target and that fell through last minute. He moved on to lachance, but was late to the party. His third option was still the #1 Juco PG. Things didn't work out but it wasn't "Baffling". As to your prediction I'm feeling good because we all know you're terrible at predicting and don't watch or know anything about the rest of the conference to put anything in perspective.
 
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