Gambling news: ISU attorneys file motion to suppress

[OldKohawk]

Read some of my responses more closely. I absolutely said those that perpetrated the illegal searches should be punished. I said they should lose their jobs and I would hope criminal charges happen as well. I also said steps should be taken and procedures changed, so that it never happens again.

Honestly, my only issue here is the wrestlers actually benefitting from it financially. To me, the fact that the ISU kids actually did break the law, they are benefiting more than enough by having their charges dropped…

You do not think wrestlers (or any athlete who got suspended for the year) should be compensated financially? Maybe if this was the old days and NIL wasn't a thing I would agree, but can't here. I assume those suspended lost thousands of dollars in not getting their NIL package that was promised before the year started? I don't know that for sure, but that would be my guess.
What about football player Noah Shannon? Who's to say he wasn't about to have a monster year and vault his draft stock up to the first round this year? I think he has a case to sue for millions

 

[MSU158]

You do not think wrestlers (or any athlete who got suspended for the year) should be compensated financially? Maybe if this was the old days and NIL wasn't a thing I would agree, but can't here. I assume those suspended lost thousands of dollars in not getting their NIL package that was promised before the year started? I don't know that for sure, but that would be my guess.
What about football player Noah Shannon? Who's to say he wasn't about to have a monster year and vault his draft stock up to the first round this year? I think he has a case to sue for millions

No, I don’t think they deserve money for breaking rules. Because, THAT is why they lost a season and NOT a direct result of the illegal search. If the search itself and not the resulting findings, cost them time and money THEN I would be fine with compensation.

My issue with the law suit stems from them actually benefiting from wrongdoing, of which they openly admit. I do not think they deserve to benefit from that…

As I keep saying, that doesn’t mean that all the people that were a part of the illegal acts shouldn’t be punished. They absolutely should be. Nor do I think the wrestlers deserved such a severe punishment. But, that is more of an issue with the NCAA…

 

[OldKohawk]

No, I don’t think they deserve money for breaking rules. Because, THAT is why they lost a season and NOT a direct result of the illegal search. If the search itself and not the resulting findings, cost them time and money THEN I would be fine with compensation.

My issue with the law suit stems from them actually benefiting from wrongdoing, of which they openly admit. I do not think they deserve to benefit from that…

As I keep saying, that doesn’t mean that all the people that were a part of the illegal acts shouldn’t be punished. They absolutely should be. Nor do I think the wrestlers deserved such a severe punishment. But, that is more of an issue with the NCAA…

Right, got it. If the illegal search didn't happen, we could assume they never would have been caught though, and then they would have been paid.
We could go back and forth on this point and I don't think either would be wrong, it's just where we share a difference in opinion.

 

[el dub]

Right, got it. If the illegal search didn't happen, we could assume they never would have been caught though, and then they would have been paid.
We could go back and forth on this point and I don't think either would be wrong, it's just where we share a difference in opinion.

An illegal search precipitated their loss of eligibility. And they were specifically targeted by the state officials in question.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I never once said they don’t have the “right” to sue. I simply said I do NOT see the damages necessary to deserve significant monies for what happened.

They weren’t wrongly indicted for a crime they didn’t commit. They weren’t wrongly incarcerated. All the government did was turn over information showing they broke rules, of which the athletes did not deny.

So, the only way they were wronged by the government was HOW they acquired that information. I have already said that the actual people that were responsible should lose their jobs and the offices involved add steps and procedures so it doesn’t happen again.

Finally, what we are actually only arguing is one simple thing. Who thinks anyone and everyone deserves money from the government for the way they broke that privacy? Anything and everything that happened to them after that violation was because of what the athletes actually did.

Our fundamental difference appears to be over who is actually responsible for the “damages” that resulted after the illegal search. To me those damages are the athletes’ fault and then inevitably the NCAA’s for using an archaic rule to levy such an over the top ridiculous penalty…

I wonder if you would feel differently if it was you. It’s always funny how some people think violating one’s rights isn’t a big deal unless it’s their rights being violated…

 

[tigerguy_]

No, I don’t think they deserve money for breaking rules. Because, THAT is why they lost a season and NOT a direct result of the illegal search. If the search itself and not the resulting findings, cost them time and money THEN I would be fine with compensation.

My issue with the law suit stems from them actually benefiting from wrongdoing, of which they openly admit. I do not think they deserve to benefit from that…

As I keep saying, that doesn’t mean that all the people that were a part of the illegal acts shouldn’t be punished. They absolutely should be. Nor do I think the wrestlers deserved such a severe punishment. But, that is more of an issue with the NCAA…

You pick the strangest hills to die on

 

[bourbon n blues]

These weren’t private detectives. They were public servants. And the laws they broke are more serious than the subsequent gambling charges brought forth by their illegal search.

Once that information was publicly available NCAA can act. So the university self reported from my understanding. Like I said, try that angle with your wife when they illegally leak you want to the local local brothel. She's not going to care.

 

[Fan In Black]

fruit from a poisonous tree

 

[MSU158]

I wonder if you would feel differently if it was you. It’s always funny how some people think violating one’s rights isn’t a big deal unless it’s their rights being violated…

You pick the strangest hills to die on

I promise you there is no hypocrisy on my end. I am simply not a proponent of law suits for financial gain. To me the damages need to be 100% clearly defined and quantifiable. After that, they need to be a clear and direct result of an egregious act.

Finally, just because someone does something illegal to you doesn’t mean you should get money for it. That is what the criminal system is for, to punish those that break the law.

 

[el dub]

I promise you there is no hypocrisy on my end. I am simply not a proponent of law suits for financial gain. To me the damages need to be 100% clearly defined and quantifiable. After that, they need to be a clear and direct result of an egregious act.

Finally, just because someone does something illegal to you doesn’t mean you should get money for it. That is what the criminal system is for, to punish those that break the law.

There is criminal law and civil. And I’m guessing this will be headed to civil court for damage reclamation.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

I promise you there is no hypocrisy on my end. I am simply not a proponent of law suits for financial gain. To me the damages need to be 100% clearly defined and quantifiable. After that, they need to be a clear and direct result of an egregious act.

Finally, just because someone does something illegal to you doesn’t mean you should get money for it. That is what the criminal system is for, to punish those that break the law.

People want to see justice. Simply dropping the criminal charges against the athletes isn't justice.

Justice ideally, would be criminal charges against the investigators who violated the 4th amendment. However, that would require the Iowa DoJ to charge their own employees and we all doubt that will happen (wrongfully). Vote accordingly.

If the investigators aren't charged with crimes, then an alternative form of justice (but probably less appropriate as you've argued) would be a civil lawsuit and punitive financial penalty against the state.

Simply dropping the charges isn't a form of accountability against the bad actors. And lack of accountability does nothing to prevent it from happening again.

 

[MSU158]

People want to see justice. Simply dropping the criminal charges against the athletes isn't justice.

Justice ideally, would be criminal charges against the investigators who violated the 4th amendment. However, that would require the Iowa DoJ to charge their own employees and we all doubt that will happen (wrongfully). Vote accordingly.

If the investigators aren't charged with crimes, then an alternative form of justice (but probably less appropriate as you've argued) would be a civil lawsuit and punitive financial penalty against the state.

Simply dropping the charges isn't a form of accountability against the bad actors. And lack of accountability does nothing to prevent it from happening again.

I do not disagree with anything you said. They absolutely need to be held accountable and punished accordingly. If they don’t get charged let alone even lose their jobs I am not against a civil suit to at least make them answer for what they did.

 

[tigerguy_]

 

[Randy Marsh]

when we will see terminations?

 

[iaHki]

I do not disagree with anything you said. They absolutely need to be held accountable and punished accordingly. If they don’t get charged let alone even lose their jobs I am not against a civil suit to at least make them answer for what they did.

I think there’s a good distinction to be made here that might close the gap between you guys.

It is possible in a civil suit to not “reward” the athlete who was found to have broken a rule, while still “punishing” the bad act from the state. Instead of creating some NIL math for what they lost, determine how much penalty is necessary to prevent future conduct.

So, not “you get $100k because your medical bills were $100k,” it’s “you pay $100k to learn a lesson.


But, on top of that, I think some of you are holding out WAYYYYYYYY too much hope that the Iowa courts, including our current Supreme Court will actually think geofencing software is a violation of the constitution. Those lawyers might as well try, but it’s being used in other investigations as well, and I don’t see them outlawing it any time soon.

I’m glad to see in this context we are unhappy with it. It’ll be interesting to see how many of you disagree with it in a murder case.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

But, on top of that, I think some of you are holding out WAYYYYYYYY too much hope that the Iowa courts, including our current Supreme Court will actually think geofencing software is a violation of the constitution. Those lawyers might as well try, but it’s being used in other investigations as well, and I don’t see them outlawing it any time soon.

I’m glad to see in this context we are unhappy with it. It’ll be interesting to see how many of you disagree with it in a murder case.

I'd imagine that In a murder case, the investigators could easily get a warrant to use the software to help them prosecute the suspect.

That's a lot different than saying "we think someone might be gambling illegally, let's illegally search the accounts and internet traffic of every single person who lives in a certain location to try to find potential criminals".

 

[MitchLL]

From sources, these attorneys for the ISU guys are pitbulls.

And if I was a betting man(no pun intended), they are not going to take the 40% attorney fees which is somewhat typical in lawsuits.

The State will eagerly settle out of court to bury this...and we'll never know details or who is scapegoated.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

That's all true, but still the rules were broken and this won't change the NCAA suspensions. The government can be wrong in how they obtained information but once it's in public you re not immune from any penalties such as civil penalties.

A Madam has her client list illegally leaked due to an illegal search warrant. Maybe you won't be found guilty of solicitation but your wife will still divorce your ass.

Well said, Bourbon! I know my wife would definitely divorce my ass! LOL!

 

[el dub]

Well said, Bourbon! I know my wife would definitely divorce my ass! LOL!

But will your future ex get half of your settlement?

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

But will your future ex get half of your settlement?

I don't know Dub, it'd be pretty bad. My beautiful wife (no pictures) is incredibly wonderful, loving and so on. However, if my number was on Madame Butterfly’s rolodex or frequent caller list, little sister who is an RN would call on her lawyer buddies she’s been seeing for Botox injections the past 15 years, and if I was lucky I would walk away with three or four items: a fork, knife, plate and perhaps an ice tray. At the same time, if given the opportunity she would probably go one step further like Lorena Bobbitt did back in the day, thus resulting in me walking away with four or five items: a fork, knife, plate, and perhaps an ice tray…and my penis on the plate with the knife still attached to it. LOL!

 

[bunsen82]

From sources, these attorneys for the ISU guys are pitbulls.

And if I was a betting man(no pun intended), they are not going to take the 40% attorney fees which is somewhat typical in lawsuits.

The State will eagerly settle out of court to bury this...and we'll never know details or who is scapegoated.

Why will the state settle? Iowa Supreme Court ruled last year no public official or state entity can be held liable for violating constitutional rights.

 

[ILHawksFan]

I never once said they don’t have the “right” to sue. I simply said I do NOT see the damages necessary to deserve significant monies for what happened.

They weren’t wrongly indicted for a crime they didn’t commit. They weren’t wrongly incarcerated. All the government did was turn over information showing they broke rules, of which the athletes did not deny.

So, the only way they were wronged by the government was HOW they acquired that information. I have already said that the actual people that were responsible should lose their jobs and the offices involved add steps and procedures so it doesn’t happen again.

Finally, what we are actually only arguing is one simple thing. Who thinks anyone and everyone deserves money from the government for the way they broke that privacy? Anything and everything that happened to them after that violation was because of what the athletes actually did.

Our fundamental difference appears to be over who is actually responsible for the “damages” that resulted after the illegal search. To me those damages are the athletes’ fault and then inevitably the NCAA’s for using an archaic rule to levy such an over the top ridiculous penalty…

The rights I was referring to was not the right to file a lawsuit. Again go back and learn what our basic fundamental rights are as a citizen of the United States.

 

[iaHki]

I'd imagine that In a murder case, the investigators could easily get a warrant to use the software to help them prosecute the suspect.

That's a lot different than saying "we think someone might be gambling illegally, let's illegally search the accounts and internet traffic of every single person who lives in a certain location to try to find potential criminals".

I certainly agree that the reason for wanting to geofence makes far more sense when a known crime has occurred, like murder. But, say a small Iowa town, the scenario would be geofencing Casey’s, or the local Elk’s club, obtaining all cell data, then working backwards through publicly available advertising data, such as web searches.

Also, just adding the word “illegally” to your prompt doesn’t actually change whether it is in fact illegal or not. There simply is no laws in Iowa preventing geofencing. The question of whether it specifically violates rights has not been made by any court. That’s what these lawyers are trying to do, get that question answered.

That’s why it’s important to consider it to the extreme, like murder, to see what lines can be drawn. I don’t expect the Iowa legislature to give a shit. They haven’t so far, and now is the exact time they could pounce on it. Clearly the governor doesn’t care, the AG is essentially approving it. The fingers crossing that the Supreme Court of Iowa appointed by this government will care is just holding breath.

Now, to their credit, they did recently say can’t just rip open people’s garbages set out on the street, that it’s trespass, so there might be some hope to protect internet liberty.

 

[iaHki]

I'd imagine that In a murder case, the investigators could easily get a warrant to use the software to help them prosecute the suspect.

That's a lot different than saying "we think someone might be gambling illegally, let's illegally search the accounts and internet traffic of every single person who lives in a certain location to try to find potential criminals".

Wanted to address a different point you made separately. I can’t imagine it would be hard for an investigator to actually obtain some information about college kids gambling. Similar to public intox, it’s rampant if anyone cared.

Would any of us feel better about this had some undercover 21 Jump Street style asshole had started this process and then obtained a warrant? I sure wouldn’t. Or if some pissed off Husker sent screenshots of Iowa players betting and that led to warrants? Maybe some of you are actually pissed off about the lack of rubber-stamped warrant, but I’d guess most are pissed off about enforcing this period, or enforcing it through geofencing app data.

Ask it this way, if some asshole kid had just narced on everyone, and all players got charged/suspended the exact same process, would we still not be pissed off?

 

[MSU158]

The rights I was referring to was not the right to file a lawsuit. Again go back and learn what our basic fundamental rights are as a citizen of the United States.

Dude, the only thing I am arguing against is their deserving money for what was done. Please cite the part in the Bill of Rights that clearly states they deserve money. I will wait patiently…

 

[MitchLL]

Why will the state settle? Iowa Supreme Court ruled last year no public official or state entity can be held liable for violating constitutional rights.

That's disturbing.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Wanted to address a different point you made separately. I can’t imagine it would be hard for an investigator to actually obtain some information about college kids gambling. Similar to public intox, it’s rampant if anyone cared.

Would any of us feel better about this had some undercover 21 Jump Street style asshole had started this process and then obtained a warrant? I sure wouldn’t. Or if some pissed off Husker sent screenshots of Iowa players betting and that led to warrants? Maybe some of you are actually pissed off about the lack of rubber-stamped warrant, but I’d guess most are pissed off about enforcing this period, or enforcing it through geofencing app data.

Ask it this way, if some asshole kid had just narced on everyone, and all players got charged/suspended the exact same process, would we still not be pissed off?

Great point. I agree completely.

 

[MitchLL]

Why will the state settle? Iowa Supreme Court ruled last year no public official or state entity can be held liable for violating constitutional rights.

Just wondering..has that been on the books for awhile and if it wasn't the statute when the gambling investigation took place, it shouldn't pertain.

 

[acuhawk]

I do not disagree with anything you said. They absolutely need to be held accountable and punished accordingly. If they don’t get charged let alone even lose their jobs I am not against a civil suit to at least make them answer for what they did.

I agree the athletes really don't deserve a big settlement. I think every officer aware of what was going on should spend time in prison though. Consequences need to be severe for those employed to uphold the law. We also need the names of the panel members that rejected the NCAA's recommendations to lessen the penalties.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Well said, Bourbon! I know my wife would definitely divorce my ass! LOL!

First, I do not like or approve of government snooping and abusing searches, at all. But prior to that, come on guys, we know these apps use geo location. I'm no sport better except for the Super Bowl. It's allowed in Pa. I put in $100 and pick the dumbest $1 bets, maybe 30-40 of them. I think I walked away with 120 or so dollars this year lol. If this geezer knows about geo location, these kids should. We used cash for stuff back in the day for things.

Weed ( not me), booze, me, or a football card. Me maybe 1-2 times a year. I hated losing my beer/pizza cash.

So I only am so sympathetic to them. Ask you non athlete friend to place the bet and give him 10 bucks or something, just like we asked the 21 yo to buy us beer. And the government still does suck.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Wanted to address a different point you made separately. I can’t imagine it would be hard for an investigator to actually obtain some information about college kids gambling. Similar to public intox, it’s rampant if anyone cared.

Would any of us feel better about this had some undercover 21 Jump Street style asshole had started this process and then obtained a warrant? I sure wouldn’t. Or if some pissed off Husker sent screenshots of Iowa players betting and that led to warrants? Maybe some of you are actually pissed off about the lack of rubber-stamped warrant, but I’d guess most are pissed off about enforcing this period, or enforcing it through geofencing app data.

Ask it this way, if some asshole kid had just narced on everyone, and all players got charged/suspended the exact same process, would we still not be pissed off?

Good points, remember the show Baretta and the themr song by Sammy Davis Jr?

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Why will the state settle? Iowa Supreme Court ruled last year no public official or state entity can be held liable for violating constitutional rights.

My friend, I'm no attorney and I'm certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but your 20-word response way over simplified what the Supreme Court ruled...and when you read the ruling it doesn't say that they can't be held liable for violating constitutional rights. They do however imply that it's not as simple as before as I understood this article. Also, the case in question that went to the Supreme Court was much different than this situation with the wrestlers. Again, I'm not a legal mastermind but that's my take.

StackPath

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

fruit from a poisonous tree

CJ 101...

 

[ILHawksFan]

Dude, the only thing I am arguing against is their deserving money for what was done. Please cite the part in the Bill of Rights that clearly states they deserve money. I will wait patiently…

Never said anything about them deserving money either. However, the Iowa DOJ is not going to prosecute these state law enforcement officers who violated the constitutional rights of numerous athletes.

Filing a civil suit for violating their civil rights is the next best thing that can be done to obtain some level of justice. Even if they only received a $1, it would be a court finding the LEO’s wrong in their actions.

 

[ozzie8]

Paperwork has been filed with intent to sue the state. 12 kids involved in the civil suit I know about. There’s a lot more crap to come out

 

[MSU158]

Never said anything about them deserving money either. However, the Iowa DOJ is not going to prosecute these state law enforcement officers who violated the constitutional rights of numerous athletes.

Filing a civil suit for violating their civil rights is the next best thing that can be done to obtain some level of justice. Even if they only received a $1, it would be a court finding the LEO’s wrong in their actions.

None of that has anything to do with my needing to “learn” the Bill of Rights based on my stance.

Hell, on much of this we actually agree. The perpetrators deserve to be punished and should be held accountable. However, the Bill of Rights in no way says civil is the only recourse against them. In fact, it clearly delineates between criminal and civil actions.

What should happen is criminal, but if those in power let them off the hook, THEN I did say the suit should be brought as a last resort. Even then, I still hold firm that the wrestlers deserve little to no compensation for breaking rules regardless of how they were found…

 

[Iron Doc]

Paperwork has been filed with intent to sue the state. 12 kids involved in the civil suit I know about. There’s a lot more crap to come out

Good! Sue the hell out of the state! Maybe people in positions of authority will think twice in the future.

 

[eb05]

another interesting thing to come out regarding the AG and their efforts to cover up their violations of constitutional rights

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

another interesting thing to come out regarding the AG and their efforts to cover up their violations of constitutional rights

View embedded media

The guy in that video from Potawattamie doesnt seem unhinged our anything. The louder I yell is going to change the fact that DCI agents broke the law.

 

[eb05]