Where did KF's recruiting turn for the worse?
- Thread starter HoustonHawkeye
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cocoem, I don't understand your's and some other's attitude when it comes to Iowa football. You think that this is it. Once Kirk is gone, Iowa football is over forever. Nonsense. A proper hire, an infusion of energy with a progressive program and the atmosphere in IC will change overnight. But, if Barta, or whomever plays it safe and brings in another crawl ball outfit, things will just creep along.
Spectators want action. TV wants scoring, long plays. This it requires skilled players which Iowa either can't or doesn't try to draw. This program is not recruiting at a level necessary to compete for championships. And if you consider this to be outstanding, I respect your loyalty as a fan.
Honest question, when has KF's recruiting been good? It seems as if it's been more about player development and scouting than recruiting. It's not like most of the notable players from the early 2000's were kids who had a ton of big offers. Are the recruits Iowa is getting now really rated any less than your Sanders, Clark, Gallery or Greenways? I don't believe so. It's not hard to recruit these kids when you are one of the few Power 5 conference programs offering. Ferentz is still doing a decent job of taking those diamonds in the rough and developing them. Weren't Hitchens, Davis, Sherff, Hyde, Reiff and Kirksey all 2 or 3 stars? But you can't sustain a programs success playing in a Power 5 conference by relying on these types of players. More times than not, they aren't going to develop into great players, usually solid contributors.
Now if you are asking why he isn't finding as many diamonds in the rough as he was in the early years of his career, that's pretty simple. Recruiting has changed 10 fold since than. There are more camps, recruiting services, highlight videos and access to kids now than there was then. The emphasis and focus on recruiting has also increased since then. Programs have huge staffs whose only responsibility is recruiting and looking at tape. Recruiting budgets have increased and it's not as regionalized as it once was either.
Now if you are asking why he isn't finding as many diamonds in the rough as he was in the early years of his career, that's pretty simple. Recruiting has changed 10 fold since than. There are more camps, recruiting services, highlight videos and access to kids now than there was then. The emphasis and focus on recruiting has also increased since then. Programs have huge staffs whose only responsibility is recruiting and looking at tape. Recruiting budgets have increased and it's not as regionalized as it once was either.
I am not a Barta lover but this 'serious accusation' is total non sense. So the AD should blow off player mistreatment claims now instead? He backed the student-athlete not the coach. Now he is in 'serious' trouble for that?
This is field hockey we are talking about. ZERO money made, net money loss sport and not played by any Iowans. A sport funded on the back of a sport like football. The coach of any non money making sport should especially know better that they can be canned at any time.
Let's see how this plays out with the Feds. A ruling in her favor could set precedent across all of athletics. This means no female coach can be let go now by a male AD. Think about that.
Not saying it is over. Been there for Cummings, Fry, and KF. If you take the Fry and KF eras...they mirror themselves. Understanding the landscape of college football...Iowa has achieved some great things under KF. You are right you are not going to get the 60 passes a game to 10 different receivers. It isn't built that way and if a fan thinks Iowa gets rid of KF and a new guy is going to wave a wand..they are confused.
For what most think they want it Iowa will go so far backwards before it sees any light. I for one couldn't care if Iowa runs it, throws it, crawls it into the end zone as long as they do it more than the other team.
I marvel at people like you that have a simple philosophy: Let's stay mediocre and live with the results from the past 5 years because that's better than potentially falling into further oblivion. What a great attitude to have.
You and fans like you live on your dreams of yesteryear. You have flashbacks of 2002-2004 under Ferentz or you think back to 2009 and you just figure those days will return again...or you cling to false hope. At some point, reality will set in but for you and others maybe not. At some point fans need to realize there's a stronger likelihood the "old times" are not returning than will return under Ferentz. Some of us, actually many of us based on season ticket sales, have just decided it's time.
I agree. It's also the attitude that kept Iowa losing for so long before Fry came.
It's well documented that when Fry came, he had to change the attitude of the program. I, as well as others, fear that the program is slipping back in to that same attitude prior to Fry.
Instead of fans just being happy being in the game, it's evolved in to fans being happy with mediocrity.
I assure you the staff and players do not have an apathetic attitude towards winning and losing. Whether KF can get things turned around or not remains to be seen, but it won't be because the team has accepted losing.
Keep dreaming big boy. After interacting with you I truly believe you are a true Hawk fan. It will be great with a new coach. Things will change...Iowa will be back up in the upper echelon like they always have been. You remember the good ole days right?
Iowa football is something I invest in for entertainment. It has been that for many years. Unlike yourself I don't find fault in eveything and everybody because of their play on the football field. I am sure they are out their worried about disappointing you Fry. You mean so much to them Fry. I would love to know about these "old times" you speak of. Was it the couple of years here and there that Iowa had great seasons? Was it you, the unrealistic fan,who thinks BCS games are a given? Keep on keeping on.
I am one who got two more season tickets this year. Thanks for dropping yours...that is if you ever had any. One thing is true Fry...the bandwagon will probably come by again, just remeber don't get on because it would be horrible for you to be so disappointed again.
Haha. I have been a season ticket holder since 1995 with 4 season tickets and have missed two home games in that time.
I have missed 4 road games in the past 11 years. Can you say either of these things?
I love the Hawks more than you do--which is why I care enough to be objective and realize it's time for a change. Just because I have made most every game in person for the past several years doesn't mean I like the product that many times is being put on the field. I root for the Hawks louder to win than you likely do--but I also don't glory worship the staff like you are compelled to.
Fans like you are what are the problem. You are entitled to settle for "ho hum" if you like. I am one who doesn't. Apparently many others feel the same way as I do--actually, at a growing and growing number.
My hunch is you are likely "ho hum" at your work as well--that's why you find the last 5 years and find no reason for change perfectly fine--it's right in your own wheelhouse.
This is so annoying. According to you, there are only two attitudes that exist in the Iowa fans base - 1. Outrage because we are not better, and 2. Satisfied with mediocrity.
The truth is that most of us are just fans. We watch the Hawks and hope they win. When they don't win we hope they win the next one. We hope. We always think the glass is half full because we enjoy watching the Hawks for entertainment. We realize we have no actual control.
Of course, some believe they can actually influence the course of future events by rejecting the status quo and demanding that improvements be made. They will chastise fans that remain optimistic by charging them with the crime of being satisfied with mediocrity.
Well, I hope the Hawks are good in 2015. If they are not (or even if they are) I hope they will be good in 2016. I'm am also hoping to not be miserable if I don't get what I want. But, I don't think I am satisfied with mediocrity. I have stopped buying season tickets and cut way back on my donation. But I am still going to root for the Hawks and hope for the best.
You 'love' the hawks...lol. A little creepy. I think you are confusing love with obsession.
1. You can't make such assurances.
2. If you would have comprehended my post, you would have known I said fans. I said nothing about the players and coaches. I'm sure the players and coaches in the 60's and 70's didn't accept losing either. I'm sure they wanted to win badly.
No. That's not according to me. I said no such thing. Nice try at putting words in my mouth though.
You think the fans that demand more don't want the Hawks to win too? You don't think they don't root for the Hawks? According to you they don't. See what I did there?
I truly believe that KF came to Iowa with a formula. It was pretty simple - blue collar, hard work, "break the rock", "bullies of the B10". The first time he said, "Iowa isn't sexy", he said it with pride. Recruit the best Iowa kids, kids that will play their hearts out for Iowa. Win with defense and an offense that doesn't make mistakes. Solid running game. Put former TE's in the O-Line, but former QB's at TE. Great special teams. It worked.
Then, $hit happened. Too many players with bad behavior - don't recruit higher risk kids. Too many injuries - change the strength & conditioning. The 2010 team loses 5 games in Q4 - ramp up the strength & conditioning. Rhabdo - back off on strength & conditioning. KOK leaves and the offense needs a boost- hire GD from Texas. Norm retires - we fear change so hire from within.
Greg Davis may be a fine coach, but he is miles away from the KF formula. We might as well have hired a basketball coach. PP may be a fine coach, but is he a Top 25 D Coordinator? Can we win with defense?
So, when a kid from Florida or TX looks at Iowa, what does he see? Bullies of the B10? Nope. Great defense? Nope. Great running game? Nope. If a skill position player - does he see a path to the NFL? Nope.
KF didn't stop wanting to win. He's not sitting on his bags of money coasting along. His formula for success stopped working.
So, change the formula, right? Re-invent the program. Well, that is way easier said than done.
The program needs a new leader, a new formula and a fresh start. I sure hope KF retires before everyone forgets the good things he has done for Iowa football.
Then, $hit happened. Too many players with bad behavior - don't recruit higher risk kids. Too many injuries - change the strength & conditioning. The 2010 team loses 5 games in Q4 - ramp up the strength & conditioning. Rhabdo - back off on strength & conditioning. KOK leaves and the offense needs a boost- hire GD from Texas. Norm retires - we fear change so hire from within.
Greg Davis may be a fine coach, but he is miles away from the KF formula. We might as well have hired a basketball coach. PP may be a fine coach, but is he a Top 25 D Coordinator? Can we win with defense?
So, when a kid from Florida or TX looks at Iowa, what does he see? Bullies of the B10? Nope. Great defense? Nope. Great running game? Nope. If a skill position player - does he see a path to the NFL? Nope.
KF didn't stop wanting to win. He's not sitting on his bags of money coasting along. His formula for success stopped working.
So, change the formula, right? Re-invent the program. Well, that is way easier said than done.
The program needs a new leader, a new formula and a fresh start. I sure hope KF retires before everyone forgets the good things he has done for Iowa football.
1. Well, I know quite a few players on the team (I've sat in the family section for a couple of years, if you catch my meaning)....so whatever verbiage you feel ok with is fine. The players have not copped an attitude of acceptance of losing. 2. As to the actual game....the only attitude that ultimately counts is that of the players. Fans attitude is reflected in multiple ways obviously, but right now is basically of the gnashing of teeth variety. And when you referenced Fry needing to change the attitude of the "program" that was indeed speaking to the players and coaches. Here's your exact quote: It's well documented that when Fry came, he had to change the attitude of the program. I, as well as others, fear that the program is slipping back in to that same attitude prior to Fry. Hayden's famous tirade about threatening to smack the next player that smiles after a loss is iconic in that regard. So....my point stands....the team does not have this attitude.
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You may think it's nonsense but the federal government and the University of Iowa disagree.
A lot of them have. I never said there were two types of fans. Again, nice try.
Is that supposed to make you more credible? Like I said, you can make no such assurances.
In your world, only the players and coaches make up a program. How simple of you.
Again, I said nothing about the players and coaches. You keep going back to it though like I did. It almost as if you think that by saying it enough timesn, it will eventually become truth.
My point still stands. There's a significant portion of the fanbase that has the same attitude as the fanbase in the 60's and 70's. It's just evolved.
Anyone can file a complaint. You have no idea if this will go anywhere or not. Are you taking the side of possible player mistreatment?
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Ok you threw a TD on this post. KF off to a good start, shit happened and now can't seem to recover. KF tries to rebound with GD hire to amp up the offense but has clamps on it to keep his style. Norm was a master and has not been replaced with the same knowledge. So now the have to play the type offense for the players they can get to Iowa.
Lol. You DID refer to the program, and for your convenience I even included the quote. And yes, to most people - including Hayden in your quote - the "program" is the actual....."program". Hayden certainly wasn't referring to changing the attitude of the fans. You're just being argumentative.
I get a kick out of people like you. Rather than just say "good....glad to hear the team's working hard", you have to make a smart assed remark about credibility. So....yes, as regards this particular issue, I do have a measure of credibility. I actually know players on the team, what they say, and how they feel about certain things. I know some interesting things about some of the players views of the Rudock vs Beathard issue, for example....but because of people like you I've kept them to myself. So if you want to project your attitude towards the team, fine....but to everyone else I'll just say that the team is pissed and motivated.
Out of curiosity what was said by players with rudock vs beathard. Could care less if you name the actual player who said it but interested to know the take by some players stand point.
This is about 8 players, all in the 2 deeps last year (most were starters) on both sides of the ball....so it can obviously be argued whether they represent the majority. So with that disclaimer out of the way.....they all felt Beathard was the better QB. And that he showed it in practice, as well. They felt pretty strongly about it too. Interestingly, when they were interviewed they all said the right things. Now for my personal opinion (and suspicion)..... I think there were some locker room problems, and Beathard starting will cure that. Actually, this gives me a measure of hope.
There it is again. You saying I spoke about players and coaches.
People like me? Just what have I been like?
Guess what? You aren't revealing any top secret information. All coaches and players want to win! So to say these coaches and players want to win doesn't mean anything. It's assumed by everyone.
The team is pissed and motivated? So are you saying the players actually dislike the fans? The same fans that root for them every Saturday in the fall?
We've been hearing about the team being pissed and motivated for a few years now. What else is new? They still haven't met expectations. So maybe they should try something other than being pissed at the fans if that's what you are saying. Because a lot of NCAA teams actually appreciate the fans.
Wow....slow down a bit sparky. The team is pissed about their performance. Don't be so defensive.
Who cares about your expectations? They don't. They don't play for you. They play to represent this great institution, they play to pay for a quality education, they play for each other...
Get over yourself and maybe expect more from yourself. You'll be better off and hopefully not so miserably disappointed.
I'm glad you responded....
I didn't say they were my expectations did I? Do you have a reading problem? These are rhetorical questions. You don't need to answer them.
The team hasn't met their own expectations for a few years now. If you had paid any kind of attention to Iowa football, you would know that. Truth be told, they haven't really met anyone's expectations for a while now.
From what I've gathered about your posting, there are a lot of things you do not know about the Hawkeye football team. So I have serious doubts about you being an actual fan of the team. Your posts are pointing me in that direction.
All your posts are about yourself and fans, "...fans are happy about mediocrity'...etc. So why would anyone think you were referring to anyones expectations except your own and these so called fans? You are just a negative, argumentative person. If it was about the kids not living up to their own expectations, why would you constantly be on here making negative comments about the 'program' and fans who don't agree with your miserable outlook? You are good at back peddling, so I have no doubt you will again. What kind of fan you think I am is of no concern to me. Nor is your opinion on what I know about the Iowa football team. You don't matter and the sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.
Thank you. That's actually great to hear.
Listen, we all want the Hawkeyes to win. But you can't just expect us all to have blind trust in that the coaches know how to do it when the results over the last few years have been leading a lot of people to believe that they can't.
Kirk has done some great things for the university and fans, but sometimes the game just passes coaches by. College football has evolved very quickly over the past decade. You can either stay ahead of the game, keep up with the the game, or you fall behind. If you can't do either of the first two, then you need to think about stepping down.
We all see Kirk trying. But trying and being able to get it done are two different things. To be honest, I like a lot of the changes made the past couple of years. I like the aggressive recruiting, casting a wider net. I think getting players from the southeast will pay dividends in the future. I agree with announcing CJB as the starter in January. It was the right thing to do for JR.
The meat of recruiting is being able to sell the university and the program. Recruits see the same things we do. If you're telling a recruit one thing, then he goes on the internet and T.V. and sees the, "We are just Iowa," or, "that's football," it hurts your chances with recruits. Yes, the new facilities are great and they help. But you still have to sell the program.
I get it. Kirk's not a salesman, but he can't say things that hurt his recruiter's chances at landing a player. Believe it or not, recruits do see these things. They see the blah offense. They see the defense giving up a first down on 3rd and long. Right now, this isn't a team that a difference maker wants to play for unless there are serious changes in philosophy.
Kids want to make big plays. It's a coaches job to put them in the position to do so, and to let them go out there and make a big play. The pro-style offense is great. I can still be exciting to watch, not the blah we've seen the past few years.
I, for one, don't believe that Greg Davis has been the problem. He's made some great play calls. I don't just see the WR the QB has been throwing to. I see all of the routes being ran. Despite what some believe on here, we don't have all of our receivers run routes short of the sticks. There are plenty of players running down field and past the first down marker. Some of those players are open too.
For what it's worth, I believe this team is going to be more fun to watch this year with CJB taking the snaps. If we see a lot of the same as last year, then I say it's time for KF to step down.
A smart person understands that stating something as unspecific as just "expectations" is all encompassing or in general. But I'm not dealing with someone who is intellegent, am I?
What you exhibit is a person with blind trust. Blind trust in that the coaches know everything and are doing what needs to be done to turn everything around. You question nothing at all, and you constantly criticize those that question your "Deity", KF. That's just not smart at all, and it's further proof that you are... well... you.
I am really concerned if we have a single player that thought Ferentz played the right qb last year. One of many failures for Ferentz.
It's good to be me
I actually talk to the coaches occasionally, and I question them (I don't care what a bunch of anonymous morons on a free site think) so I have a pretty good idea what they are doing, thanks.I don't criticize people who question KF, I attack idiots who blindly bash coaches and kids without having a clue what they are talking about. I am a very untrusting person, so I follow no one or thing blindly. I educate myself about things. You should try it some time
It's good to be me
I don't criticize people who question KF, I attack idiots who blindly bash coaches and kids without having a clue what they are talking about. I am a very untrusting person, so I follow no one or thing blindly. I educate myself about things. You should try it some time
Sure... Whatever helps you sleep at night. Isn't it funny that it seems everyone who staunchly defends the coaches speaks to them or knows them personally? For some reason, I highly doubt you know them or anything about the situation for that matter.
You're full of it and a lot of people know it. Because if the coaches are talking to you about things or letting you anywhere near the program, then Iowa football is in a lot more trouble than I thought.
R u for serious?It's good to be me
I don't criticize people who question KF, I attack idiots who blindly bash coaches and kids without having a clue what they are talking about. I am a very untrusting person, so I follow no one or thing blindly. I educate myself about things. You should try it some time
I'm taking the approach that those two entities believe it is a serious accusation and are conducting a formal investigation. If there is an ounce of truth to this Barta will be let go.
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