2 hostages vs dozens of citizens....

[The-Dude-Abides]

Nearly 3,000,000 Germans have paid the price due to Nazis and Churchill.

Why wouldn’t Churchill accept Hitler’s offers for ceasefire in 1940?

I have to say, you have some interesting retrospective views on major events in world history. Why not capitulate to an unhinged fascist dictator who was en route to conquer most of the continent with genocidal intent? No reason not to trust Hitler's word after repeated escalation and deceit. And that 20 miles of the Channel would be more than enough protection when things went south. And why not abandon your allies to whom you've made solemn commitments of mutual defense against tyranny? That little island nation wouldn't need any help against a continent-wide empire with almost unlimited resources.

There was no compromise with that depraved regime if one ever hoped for peace in Europe, and elsewhere around the world. Seriously, are you the ghost of Neville Chamberlain?

 

[Jan Itor]

I’m at the “pox on both of their houses” stage.

Trying to pick the “good” side in this mess is beyond a fool’s errand.

In the days immediately following October 7, it was widely predicted people would say what you are saying now.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I read NBCNews and ABCNews everyday. Both have reported numerous times that the vast majority of deaths are women and children.

Maybe Hamas shouldn’t use them as human shields and house them adjacent to their operations centers? Just a thought.

It doesn’t help that almost half of their entire population is < 18 yrs old. Some of these “children” are (teenage boys) are not innocent.

 

[seminole97]

I have to say, you have some interesting retrospective views on major events in world history. Why not capitulate to an unhinged fascist dictator who was en route to conquer most of the continent with genocidal intent? No reason not to trust Hitler's word after repeated escalation and deceit. And that 20 miles of the Channel would be more than enough protection when things went south. And why not abandon your allies to whom you've made solemn commitments of mutual defense against tyranny? That little island nation wouldn't need any help against a continent-wide empire with almost unlimited resources.

There was no compromise with that depraved regime if one ever hoped for peace in Europe, and elsewhere around the world. Seriously, are you the ghost of Neville Chamberlain?

Imagine not being able to recognize sarcasm. As if that's even possible.

Unfortunately, losing the ability to detect the subtle social clues that help you know when you’re being doused with sarcasm or even dissed with a big fat lie may actually be an early warning sign of dementia, according to a new study by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I'm torn as well. But I don't want one dollar going to Israel if they are going to be indiscriminately killing civilians. Our servicemembers are held to a higher code than that. What I am seeing are war crimes.

Bibi needs to go.

The IDF takes this seriously and wants to target Hamas fighters.

But in super cramped quarters where the enemy is known to not just use, but rely on vast amounts of human shields, the IDF’s efforts are hampered.

Hamas wants a high number of Palestinian civilian casualties (or martyrs to them). They rely on international sympathy as their lifeline. They don’t care, they could just move their military operations to the north (and not hospital adjacent). Seriously, think about that. It’s sick as fugg. That’s what they’re fighting. It needs to be erased.

 

[seminole97]

Hamas needs to somehow be eradicated. But not like this. Thousands of innocent kids being slaughtered simply cannot be the answer.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Disagree wholeheartedly. You really believe the Israelis don’t have the moral high ground in all this? Really?

Nope... they've all done horrible things to the other side

 

[Huey Grey]

Maybe Hamas shouldn’t use them as human shields and house them adjacent to their operations centers? Just a thought.

It doesn’t help that almost half of their entire population is < 18 yrs old. Some of these “children” are (teenage boys) are not innocent.

Hamas absolutely shouldn't. It's sickening that they are.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

The IDF takes this seriously and wants to target Hamas fighters.

But in super cramped quarters where the enemy is known to not just use, but rely on vast amounts of human shields, the IDF’s efforts are hampered.

Hamas wants a high number of Palestinian civilian casualties (or martyrs to them). They rely on international sympathy as their lifeline. They don’t care, they could just move their military operations to the north (and not hospital adjacent). Seriously, think about that. It’s sick as fugg. That’s what they’re fighting. It needs to be erased.

Again, you are not describing anything I didn't see in Iraq. There are rules of engagement. You don't kill women and children instrumentally.

Bibi is ironically waging a holocaust on innocent civilians

 

[Jimmy McGill]

And I guarantee the next generation will be more anti-Israel because of Bibi's actions

 

[The-Dude-Abides]

Imagine not being able to recognize sarcasm. As if that's even possible.

Unfortunately, losing the ability to detect the subtle social clues that help you know when you’re being doused with sarcasm or even dissed with a big fat lie may actually be an early warning sign of dementia, according to a new study by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco.

Ah yes, the many subtle social clues that are readily apparent from plain text on the internet. From a poster who paints JFK as a warmonger for taking issue with the placement of nukes by the Soviets 90 miles from our border and seems to take issue with any involvement of US troops abroad as though we aren't affected by events elsewhere. Forgive me for inferring an isolationist and appeasement bent from your many posts on the subject.

Thank you though for the concern about my cognitive status. I will be sure to regularly submit to the rigors of the person/woman/man/camera/TV test to ensure that I don't slip any further.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Again, you are not describing anything I didn't see in Iraq. There are rules of engagement. You don't kill women and children instrumentally.

Bibi is ironically waging a holocaust on innocent civilians

If you have evidence of the IDF targeting women & children specifically, I suggest you post it here.

How exactly is Hamas wrapping themselves around human shields fit the “rules of engagement???” It’s the sympathy of people like you that is keeping Hamas alive.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

If you have evidence of the IDF targeting women & children specifically, I suggest you post it here.

How exactly is Hamas wrapping themselves around human shieldsfit the “rules of engagement???” It’s the sympathy of people like you that is keeping Hamas alive.

I have no sympathy for Hamas. I'm sorry you see this as a black and white issue,.

Hamas is evil. What Bibi is doing is evil.

Satisfied?

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

In the days immediately following October 7, it was widely predicted people would say what you are saying now.

Yep. The only question was how many days it would take.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

If you have evidence of the IDF targeting women & children specifically, I suggest you post it here.

How exactly is Hamas wrapping themselves around human shields fit the “rules of engagement???” It’s the sympathy of people like you that is keeping Hamas alive.

Who is the Hamas fighter here? Is it the 5 year old boy or the elderly woman?

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

I have no sympathy for Hamas. I'm sorry you see this as a black and white issue,.

Hamas is evil. What Bibi is doing is evil.

Satisfied?

You've had two chances now to provide evidence.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

The Iraq war — by the numbers

Approximately 200,000: The number of Iraqi civilians killed in the war.

The Iraq war — by the numbers

Some key statistics on this 20th anniversary of the war’s beginning.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Who is the Hamas fighter here? Is it the 5 year old boy or the elderly woman?

View embedded media

Understood. Now find 1,137 more examples of the same and then we can talk.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I have no sympathy for Hamas. I'm sorry you see this as a black and white issue,.

Hamas is evil. What Bibi is doing is evil.

Satisfied?

You made a claim that the IDF (as directed by Bibi) specifically targets women & children.

I’ll be satisfied when you support that claim with evidence.

October 7th made things extremely black & white. We all watched our own 9/11 on TV. What stuck me is that many in Israel’s own Knesset could not watch the footage of Oct 7th because it was so horrifying.

 

[Franisdaman]

As our Secretary of State has stated several times, the war would end if Hamas would simply surrender and lay down their arms. Until they do so, I can understand why Israel wants to destroy Hamas and their tunnel network.

I find it interesting that some people are demanding a ceasefire from Israel but why not demand a surrender from Hamas? Israel has made it clear that they will not only destroy Hamas but their entire tunnel network. Israel started in the north and is working their way south. Hamas is going to be defeated eventually. Hamas might as well surrender now and end this thing. The world should demand it.

Hamas started this whole mess and they made a serious miscalculation in how Israel was going to respond.

 

[arrrrrghhhh!]

It's like watching a 90s movie where the bad guy grabs two kids to use as shields and says, "What are you going to do now?" And the good guy shoots the kids and says, "That problem is solved."

In this scenario, did the kids go to the Kill the Jews summer camp sponsored by UNRWA?

 

[seminole97]

Ah yes, the many subtle social clues that are readily apparent from plain text on the internet.

You know, I thought the absurdity of it would make the point, but you help emphasize it.

Everyone agrees there is nothing redeemable about the Nazis, and they summoned their own doom.
The idea that they [Nazis or Hamas] should have been granted a ceasefire, and allowed to retain control, boggles my mind.
I haven’t seen anyone even try to justify keeping the murderers in power, even as they acknowledge they’ve undemocratically usurped power and hold the civilians of Gaza essentially as hostages.

From a poster who paints JFK as a warmonger for taking issue with the placement of nukes by the Soviets 90 miles from our border

I said that attacking Cuba for entering a military alliance is immoral, but I think JFK was in no small part trapped by politics in his decision.
Remember, he kind of ran to the right of Nixon on defense, and then had the Bay of Pigs dropped in his lap by the CIA out of the gate. Does he survive re-election if the Soviets put bases minutes from Florida? I doubt it.

I believe overall Kennedy was moving in a very different direction than his predecessors.

But you don't have to see Soviet bases as a existential threat to JFK politically to agree they were viewed as an existential threat to the U.S. strategically.

and seems to take issue with any involvement of US troops abroad as though we aren't affected by events elsewhere.

It’s because I usually measure the efforts net negative for us, and usually the region of the globe we’re trying to save from itself too.

What’s been the net benefit from GHWB thru Biden committing us to wage wars in the Middle East? To show for it we have trillions in debt, 10s, if not 100s of thousands of physically and mentally injured, to go with thousands of our dead, and 100s of thousands of dead people in the Middle East.
What did we gain for that exactly?
To me there has been no net benefit, so I don’t want to spend the next three decades doing the same stupid wars, especially to keep a bunch of foreign kings on their thrones.
That shit is madness to me.
We absolutely don’t have to.

Forgive me for inferring an isolationist and appeasement bent from your many posts on the subject.

Not isolationist whatsoever.
I want trade and travel with the world.
What I don’t want is to try and nation build. Whether it’s Vietnam or Iraq, or Syria, or Libya, or Yemen, or Somalia, or… well, I hope you get the idea.

 

[Jan Itor]

Again, you are not describing anything I didn't see in Iraq. There are rules of engagement. You don't kill women and children instrumentally.

Bibi is ironically waging a holocaust on innocent civilians

How many women and children did the US kill in Iraq and Afghanistan all those years?

 

[Huey Grey]

In this scenario, did the kids go to the Kill the Jews summer camp sponsored by UNRWA?

In this scenario the kids are just kids. While both adults try killing them.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Who is the Hamas fighter here? Is it the 5 year old boy or the elderly woman?

View embedded media

lol, you’ve used the same incident twice now in some shitty attempt to indicate IDF is broadly targeting civilians on purpose. They must really suck at it if all they managed to do was kill this one person and let the rest of the group go without incident.

It’s almost like they weren’t indiscriminately targeting civilians at all. One might ask the question of why all the others in the group dispersed to the right after being instructed to while she proceeded to walk towards IDF forces.

Not sure why Israelis would think a woman walking towards a checkpoint against instructions could be dangerous. Hamas certainly hasn’t ever pulled a suicide vest stunt before…

 

[Jimmy McGill]

How many women and children did the US kill in Iraq and Afghanistan all those years?

Well...in your mind, not enough.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

lol, you’ve used the same incident twice now in some shitty attempt to indicate IDF is broadly targeting civilians on purpose. They must really suck at it if all they managed to do was kill this one person and let the rest of the group go without incident.

It’s almost like they weren’t indiscriminately targeting civilians at all. One might ask the question of why all the others in the group dispersed to the right after being instructed to while she proceeded to walk towards IDF forces.

Not sure why Israelis would think a woman walking towards a checkpoint against instructions could be dangerous. Hamas certainly hasn’t ever pulled a suicide vest stunt before…

Saying that the IDF only killed ONE of the unarmed women and children in the video is certainly a weird way to argue they are showing restraint.

It's also pretty clear that Granny was turning back towards the group before she got shot in the video, but you're right her geriatric ass had it coming. How dare she take more than 2 seconds to follow an order.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Again, you are not describing anything I didn't see in Iraq. There are rules of engagement. You don't kill women and children instrumentally.

Bibi is ironically waging a holocaust on innocent civilians

You know, I get that, I really do.....but a lot of innocent people were killed because we were there to begin with. You're morally clean, but the US is not

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Saying that the IDF only killed ONE of the unarmed women and children in the video is certainly a weird way to argue they are showing restraint.

It's also pretty clear that Granny was turning back towards the group before she got shot in the video, but you're right her geriatric ass had it coming. How dare she take more than 2 seconds to follow an order.

Nice backtrack. So now it’s just that the IDF isn’t showing restraint, not purposely targeting civilians by order.

That’s progress with you, I guess…

 

[RonaldMexico]

The humane world is what you should have said.

I could have shot up a bunch of kids and women if I wanted to in Iraq. My weapon fired 200 rounds per minute. Did I? Hell no. Because I'm human

Do tell. When and where were you stationed in Iraq? What type of weapon were you manning that “fired 200 rounds a minute” around Iraqi civilians? Were you patrolling civilian areas? Operating from an FOS?

 

[The-Dude-Abides]

You know, I thought the absurdity of it would make the point, but you help emphasize it.

Everyone agrees there is nothing redeemable about the Nazis, and they summoned their own doom.
The idea that they [Nazis or Hamas] should have been granted a ceasefire, and allowed to retain control, boggles my mind.
I haven’t seen anyone even try to justify keeping the murderers in power, even as they acknowledge they’ve undemocratically usurped power and hold the civilians of Gaza essentially as hostages.




I said that attacking Cuba for entering a military alliance is immoral, but I think JFK was in no small part trapped by politics in his decision.
Remember, he kind of ran to the right of Nixon on defense, and then had the Bay of Pigs dropped in his lap by the CIA out of the gate. Does he survive re-election if the Soviets put bases minutes from Florida? I doubt it.

I believe overall Kennedy was moving in a very different direction than his predecessors.

But you don't have to see Soviet bases as a existential threat to JFK politically to agree they were viewed as an existential threat to the U.S. strategically.



It’s because I usually measure the efforts net negative for us, and usually the region of the globe we’re trying to save from itself too.

What’s been the net benefit from GHWB thru Biden committing us to wage wars in the Middle East? To show for it we have trillions in debt, 10s, if not 100s of thousands of physically and mentally injured, to go with thousands of our dead, and 100s of thousands of dead people in the Middle East.
What did we gain for that exactly?
To me there has been no net benefit, so I don’t want to spend the next three decades doing the same stupid wars, especially to keep a bunch of foreign kings on their thrones.
That shit is madness to me.
We absolutely don’t have to.



Not isolationist whatsoever.
I want trade and travel with the world.
What I don’t want is to try and nation build. Whether it’s Vietnam or Iraq, or Syria, or Libya, or Yemen, or Somalia, or… well, I hope you get the idea.

Fair enough, I appreciate your thoughtful response here. I shouldn't have thrown that snark your way. There are surely some things we would agree upon, and some we would disagree upon. Few things are as complicated as foreign policy matters, and there are almost never clear right answers.

 

[swagsurfer02]

It’s amazing to me that people wish the Israelis would show restraint when they had a rather sizable chunk of their population taken out on October 7th. In relative terms it would’ve been like the US losing 25,000 citizens on 9/11.

Israel hasn’t targeted civilians, it’s been shown time and time again that Hamas is using schools and hospitals as shields because they are playing on the civility of Israel. Some of you dopes are actually choosing to believe both sides are evil.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Should they have quit hunting Nazis after 1955?

You just can't stop yourself can you? Are you seriously trying to equate what amounted to an international police operation to track down and bring to justice escaped Nazis with a "kill anything that moves" invasion that is taking the lives of thousands of children and even captured Israelis trying to be rescued?

Try thinking for even a minute before you post something this abjectly stupid.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

Nice backtrack. So now it’s just that the IDF isn’t showing restraint, not purposely targeting civilians by order.

That’s progress with you, I guess…

Didn't back track at all. It's pretty clear to anyone that has eyes that the IDF is indifferent at best when it comes to civilian casualties. I just pointed out that people who believe that every dead civilian is due to Hamas using "human shields" is simply living in a fantasy world.

 

[SA_Hawk]

Tell me Bibi isn't trying to eradicate Palestinians.

Nearly 30,000 Palestinians have paid the price due to Hamas and Bibi

Maybe the Palestinians should fight Hamas and clean up their own house. This is the find out phase.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

It's like watching a 90s movie where the bad guy grabs two kids to use as shields and says, "What are you going to do now?" And the good guy shoots the kids and says, "That problem is solved."

Reminds me of a piece of shit thinking he can get away with anything if he gets the opinion of dumbasses on their side.

In a long enough time line. Killing all of Hamas saves lives.

 

[Aardvark86]

Tell me Bibi isn't trying to eradicate Palestinians.

Nearly 30,000 Palestinians have paid the price due to Hamas and Bibi

If 30k is the number, Bibi’s not doing a very good job of eradicating.

 

[Aardvark86]

It's like watching a 90s movie where the bad guy grabs two kids to use as shields and says, "What are you going to do now?" And the good guy shoots the kids and says, "That problem is solved."

Uh, what movie was that?

 

[seminole97]

You just can't stop yourself can you? Are you seriously trying to equate what amounted to an international police operation to track down and bring to justice escaped Nazis with a "kill anything that moves" invasion that is taking the lives of thousands of children and even captured Israelis trying to be rescued?

Try thinking for even a minute before you post something this abjectly stupid.

If the Israelis were operating under a ‘kill anything that moves’ order they would have finished months ago with zero loss of life on their side.

Try thinking for even a minute before you post something this abjectly stupid.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If the Israelis were operating under a ‘kill anything that moves’ order they would have finished months ago with zero loss of life on their side.

Try thinking for even a minute before you post something this abjectly stupid.

Oh...sure...they would have cleared hundreds of miles of tunnels filled with armed insurgents without losing a single life. Well, except for the Israelis they killed accidently, of course.

Abject stupidity back in your court. Seriously, it seems like you're doing it on purpose.