75% of Democratic Voters don't want Joe to run again

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,064
10,708
113
I disagree with almost all of this. This isn’t reality. It started with a guy who has been in politics for over 40 years is bad at politics. Then it was rabble rabble nonsense that isn’t really true. Manchin has blocked every major legislation Biden wanted passed.
The gun bill? Jesus that thing is the bare minimum. Sorry, but this didn’t sway me in the least.

Obviously, that's why I said it wasn't a serious question.

Some people would rather have a failed presidency based on chasing their most progressive views than a successful presidency based on a more middle of the road.

Again, Manchin and Sinema support Biden 90%+ of the time. It's he (and you) who insist on living in the 10%. It's an "Either its everything, or nothing" philosophy. That's a perfectly fine position to take as an activist or a message board warrior.

But it's also a recipe for an utterly failed presidency. You still have to do politics. Blaming it on everyone else doesn't change that.

And yes, there's plenty of evidence that someone that's been in politics for 40 years isn't as good at it as you need to be to be president. After all, he's been trying for decades, and needed Trump to get over the hump. But even if you grant that there was a time he might have been a good president (few agreed then), you would have to pretend his faculties today are the same as they were 20 years ago. Which, you probably do.
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
20,488
23,949
113
I'm going to answer this question seriously, even though its not a serious question.

Joe Biden is very bad at messaging, and very bad at politics.

A more politically savvy would not expend all his political capital on fights he can't win. Manchin votes with Biden 90% of the time, Sinema even more so. The only thing they are keeping him from passing are the most extreme of his (someone's) agenda.

He got 19 GOP Senate votes for his infrastructure bill. He got three GOP votes for his SC justice. 25 GOP Senators voted to confirm more of his cabinet members than voted against. Mitch McConnell himself voted yes on 75% of Biden's cabinet nominees. He's had overwhelming support from Republicans on Ukraine aid.

Biden's problem is expending all his political capital on issues at the progressive extreme that he can't even whip his entire party behind. Massive BBB plan. Federalizing elections. And they're issues that motivate the extreme side, but poll as extremely low priority among voters. What is the point, he just ends up with failure and everyone disappointed in him. And it's been utterly, completely predictable.

Meanwhile, a bipartisan gun control got passed. A bipartisan gay marriage protection bill passed the house, and might pass the Senate if the Democrats would bother to bring it forward - but they're deathly afraid it would take away an wedge issue. Biden is nowhere on issues where something could be advanced.

A savvy or even competent politician would have followed up on an extremely divisive and chaotic four years by passing what could be passed merely by having all of his party on board, and taking credit for it. Running simply a competent center or even center-left administration. Instead he has picked fight after fight he couldn't win.

Add to that the fact that his messaging has been a mix of gaslighting (Afghanistan pull out a great success, your 4th of July bbq costs are down, we're not in a recession, border is secure), divisive rhetoric (GA election law is Jim Crow on steroids, border agents whipping immigrants), and bizarre incoherence. That's not Mitch McConnell's fault, and there no reason why any other Democrat would have to be that way.

It's just a mess all around, and a lot of it is within his control. It's possible that high inflation and economic issues would eventually doom his reelection, but the difference between a difficult or uphill battle to reelection, and HISTORICALLY low approval ratings...that's on him.

The Joe Biden of 20 years ago was still in command of all his faculties. He had built a consistent reputation as a compromise vote and a fairly centrist deal maker despite being also known as a bit of a blowhard. Obama agreed to have him on the ticket because he was considered more of an experienced moderate and thus he helped offset fears and trepidation about uncharted waters as a first time African American seeking the Presidency.
When he was elected I was very hopeful that his longtime Senate relationships would help him govern somewhat moderately. It hasn’t happened and his (former) friend in the Senate Joe Manchin has **saved** the country.
Unfortunately his mental and physical decline means that his advisers (handlers) are basically running things and they’re more aligned with the Progressive Democrats - some very poor choices as to agendas and legislation have done Biden NO favors.

It really is time for two new candidates and yes - it’s a great shame that Klobuchar was not the VP pick. Had she been the Presidential nominee I could have voted for her.
 

alaskanseminole

HR Legend
Oct 20, 2002
12,025
14,042
113
...and 100% of Republicans. That's 175% of Americans don't want Joe back. Derp.


giphy.gif
 

Tom Paris

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 1, 2001
45,079
51,387
113
Obviously, that's why I said it wasn't a serious question.

Some people would rather have a failed presidency based on chasing their most progressive views than a successful presidency based on a more middle of the road.

Again, Manchin and Sinema support Biden 90%+ of the time. It's he (and you) who insist on living in the 10%. It's an "Either its everything, or nothing" philosophy. That's a perfectly fine position to take as an activist or a message board warrior.

But it's also a recipe for an utterly failed presidency. You still have to do politics. Blaming it on everyone else doesn't change that.

And yes, there's plenty of evidence that someone that's been in politics for 40 years isn't as good at it as you need to be to be president. After all, he's been trying for decades, and needed Trump to get over the hump. But even if you grant that there was a time he might have been a good president (few agreed then), you would have to pretend his faculties today are the same as they were 20 years ago. Which, you probably do.
It was a serious question answered with a lot of horsecrap. That 10% is HUGE!! Plus, that isn’t counting the refusal to allow filibuster reform…which blocks voting rights. Infrastructure. Codifying Roe. These are things the majority of the country wants, Biden is right, and Manchin blocks. If the Republicans gain the House, voting rights continue to be attacked - like even in this new electoral college bill, which would give governors the sole right to certify the votes - again, we won’t be a democratic republic. Manchin could protect that and refuses.
Should we do his thoughts on lowering prescription drug costs next? Because he blocks that too. How about getting us away from oil dependence? Joe blocks that as well…because his big oil donors say so.
 

jasonrann

HR Legend
Gold Member
Apr 11, 2007
20,669
28,735
113
Just like the last two elections, I will not vote for either major party candidate unless there is a new name on the ballot. No Hillary, no Biden, no Trump, no Romney, no Harris.
The first party to find viable new blood will win in a landslide. Until then, I’ll throw my vote away on a third party candidate.
Is Harris even alive?!
 

Bearhawk0505

HR MVP
Mar 13, 2010
2,300
2,536
113
Biden was the perfect bridge president. With the mess after Drumpf and the pandemic, whomever the president was would be pulling poorly. He is a high character person, which is exactly what the nation needed. Democrats are not blindly stupid, they recognize when it is time to turn the page to new candidates, which is why you see the %75 figure.
 

BubsFinn

HR Legend
Nov 20, 2004
28,769
23,175
113
Biden was the perfect bridge president. With the mess after Drumpf and the pandemic, whomever the president was would be pulling poorly. He is a high character person, which is exactly what the nation needed. Democrats are not blindly stupid, they recognize when it is time to turn the page to new candidates, which is why you see the %75 figure.
Then why did the rank and file Democrat voter not want him in 2020? If I recall, he finished a distant 3rd in Iowa. He was installed as nominee by the party insiders and superdelegates. If the selection had been left up to the voters, it would not have been Biden. The nation did not need a feeble old man suffering from dementia who screwed up our exit from Afghanistan, screwed up the southern border, caused double digit inflation, doubled gas prices, helped start a proxy war in Ukraine, caused the crime rate to spike in every major city, and crippled our energy production. The reason 75% of Democrats do not want him to run is they would like to win in 2024 and Biden has been such an utter disaster that even the media can see that any Republican, even one as terrible as Trump, would wipe the floor with him in 2024.
He is not a "high character" person. He's been a liar, cheat, and plagiarist his entire career. In fact, I don't think he even knows when he's lying anymore.
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
20,488
23,949
113
Biden was the perfect bridge president. With the mess after Drumpf and the pandemic, whomever the president was would be pulling poorly. He is a high character person, which is exactly what the nation needed. Democrats are not blindly stupid, they recognize when it is time to turn the page to new candidates, which is why you see the %75 figure.
Classic.
 

83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
21,297
15,928
113
Then why did the rank and file Democrat voter not want him in 2020? If I recall, he finished a distant 3rd in Iowa. He was installed as nominee by the party insiders and superdelegates. If the selection had been left up to the voters, it would not have been Biden. The nation did not need a feeble old man suffering from dementia who screwed up our exit from Afghanistan, screwed up the southern border, caused double digit inflation, doubled gas prices, helped start a proxy war in Ukraine, caused the crime rate to spike in every major city, and crippled our energy production. The reason 75% of Democrats do not want him to run is they would like to win in 2024 and Biden has been such an utter disaster that even the media can see that any Republican, even one as terrible as Trump, would wipe the floor with him in 2024.
He is not a "high character" person. He's been a liar, cheat, and plagiarist his entire career. In fact, I don't think he even knows when he's lying anymore.
This!

I sat out the 2016 presidential election because both candidates were horrible. 2020 was even worse. I was never going to vote for Trump. I knew Biden would be a horrible president (and I was right) but voted for him because I didn’t want to sit out another presidential election.

I wanted Amy. We got Joe because The Party didn’t want Bernie as the nominee. Joe has been a disaster. I hope and pray we get neither Trump or Joe in ‘24.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom

Bearhawk0505

HR MVP
Mar 13, 2010
2,300
2,536
113
Then why did the rank and file Democrat voter not want him in 2020? If I recall, he finished a distant 3rd in Iowa. He was installed as nominee by the party insiders and superdelegates. If the selection had been left up to the voters, it would not have been Biden. The nation did not need a feeble old man suffering from dementia who screwed up our exit from Afghanistan, screwed up the southern border, caused double digit inflation, doubled gas prices, helped start a proxy war in Ukraine, caused the crime rate to spike in every major city, and crippled our energy production. The reason 75% of Democrats do not want him to run is they would like to win in 2024 and Biden has been such an utter disaster that even the media can see that any Republican, even one as terrible as Trump, would wipe the floor with him in 2024.
He is not a "high character" person. He's been a liar, cheat, and plagiarist his entire career. In fact, I don't think he even knows when he's lying anymore.
Lol! He had to be the candidate as he drew a certain demographic away from Trump and was the candidate most likely to beat him.(Trump knew this and is why he did NOT want to go against Biden)
 

littlez

HR Heisman
Jan 29, 2003
7,782
6,739
113
(CNN)A new CNN poll finds 75% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters want the party to nominate someone other than President Joe Biden in the 2024 election, a sharp increase from earlier this year.


That's an insane number....


I’d like to have you not post as much Mr moderate Republican.
 

INXS83

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 5, 2003
18,451
6,546
113
biden should do the right thing and step aside after this term. there is still a lot of time between now and 2024 but i don’t see public opinion changing. he did his job and was a stabilizer but he’s just too old and everyone knows it.
Shirley you joust. The only thing he has stabilized was Americans disbelief in its leaders.
 

INXS83

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 5, 2003
18,451
6,546
113
Yes but Carter probably had no chance at re-election regardless. I’m getting a similar feeling about Biden.
Carter was actually still ahead in the polls in October 1980, then people really started to think about the prospect another 4 years of shit and said "Nope!!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom

Urohawk

HR Heisman
Sep 30, 2001
7,136
8,730
113
It also makes it incredibly gross that Democrats are pumping money into Republican primaries trying to elevate the worst, most MAGA, most January 6 candidates. They've dumped money into primaries trying to defeat every reasonable, non-MAGA, non-Trump aligned Republican they can so as not to face them in the general.

It's unsavory in normal times, but we're headed for an election where it might be possible for any candidate, no matter how heinous, to be elected if they don't have a D next to their name. They're trying to tell you that Democracy is at state while pumping millions into campaigns of election truthers to advance them out of the primary. And some of them, maybe a lot of them, are going to beat the Democrats anyway.
Terrible tactic but since the conservatives haven't been statesmen for 25+ years what are you going to do? BTW I'm a registered republican so I can sabotage their primaries. Tired of my team always taking the high road. It has not won us a lot:

Multiple republicant presidents that didn't win the popular vote
Republicans that don't legislate, they just stone wall
Merrick Garland not getting a vote.
When we thought Garland rules were in play ACB gets pushed through
Roe v Wade with 50 years of settled case law gets overturned.

Looks like the democrats are finally getting in the mud to play with the pigs.
 

Tom Paris

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 1, 2001
45,079
51,387
113
Terrible tactic but since the conservatives haven't been statesmen for 25+ years what are you going to do? BTW I'm a registered republican so I can sabotage their primaries. Tired of my team always taking the high road. It has not won us a lot:

Multiple republicant presidents that didn't win the popular vote
Republicans that don't legislate, they just stone wall
Merrick Garland not getting a vote.
When we thought Garland rules were in play ACB gets pushed through
Roe v Wade with 50 years of settled case law gets overturned.

Looks like the democrats are finally getting in the mud to play with the pigs.
I hope so. I’m tired of Republicans kicking their asses. Michelle Obama’s “we go high” doesn’t work.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: jamesvanderwulf

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
12,411
13,777
113
@BrunoMars420. I need your amazing thoughts and input here to refute FACTS over a laugh
I just find it funny that you white knight the shit out of Biden when the majority here is in agreement that he was the bridge and the anybody but trump moderate democrat. He did his duty but If you truly think he is your guy in 2024 then #godspeed. If you look at literally any poll or on HORT, no one wants 2 old queefs going at it in 2024
 

Chishawk1425

HR Legend
Nov 27, 2019
47,942
81,831
113
I just find it funny that you white knight the shit out of Biden when the majority here is in agreement that he was the bridge and the anybody but trump moderate democrat. He did his duty but If you truly think he is your guy in 2024 then #godspeed. If you look at literally any poll or on HORT, no one wants 2 old queefs going at it in 2024
He's had more bipartisan accomplishments than anyone as President in DECADES. How the **** do you not see this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: littlez

Finance85

HR Legend
Oct 22, 2003
18,156
19,536
113
Biden was the perfect bridge president. With the mess after Drumpf and the pandemic, whomever the president was would be pulling poorly. He is a high character person, which is exactly what the nation needed. Democrats are not blindly stupid, they recognize when it is time to turn the page to new candidates, which is why you see the %75 figure.
Perfect bridge? Have you looked at energy prices or inflation or stock prices lately?

High character? I might have thought that, too, at election time, but he blatantly lies about all manner of things on a daily basis. These aren't small lies either. And of course more information is coming out about his dealings with Hunter's businesses, and how they potentially compromise Joe's foreign policy with Ukraine and China.

You are right. At least 75% of Dems aren't blindly stupid. You will find a few of the 25% posting in this thread however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamesvanderwulf

BubsFinn

HR Legend
Nov 20, 2004
28,769
23,175
113
Lol! He had to be the candidate as he drew a certain demographic away from Trump and was the candidate most likely to beat him.(Trump knew this and is why he did NOT want to go against Biden)
But that decision was not left up to the voters. It was taken away from them by the DNC powerbrokers. The RNC didn't want Trump in 2016. They tried to sell the country on freaking Jeb Bush but the voters didn't want any part of him. Granted, Trump was aided by Hillary's Pied Piper Strategy, but at least the RNC left the vote up to the general public and not to party insiders. Had the Democrats done that in 2020, Biden would not be in office today, which was my point when I disagreed with your earlier post. Democrat voters very well may not be blindly stupid, but until the party does away with superdelegates, their vote does not matter. The insiders will select the candidate and come November, the general public will "vote Blue no matter who." Which is why it is so difficult to get anyone under 65 years of age on a national ticket.
 

Nole Lou

HR Heisman
Apr 5, 2002
5,064
10,708
113
Terrible tactic but since the conservatives haven't been statesmen for 25+ years what are you going to do? BTW I'm a registered republican so I can sabotage their primaries. Tired of my team always taking the high road. It has not won us a lot:

Multiple republicant presidents that didn't win the popular vote
Republicans that don't legislate, they just stone wall
Merrick Garland not getting a vote.
When we thought Garland rules were in play ACB gets pushed through
Roe v Wade with 50 years of settled case law gets overturned.

Looks like the democrats are finally getting in the mud to play with the pigs.

Just to be clear, my argument is not that it's a dirty tactic. It's that with a potential wave election coming, it's likely to result in the election of the worst kind of MAGA Republicans while they decry the threat to democracy.

It's not unlike the Senate refusing to pass protection for gay marriage while they can, because they would rather have the issue. Meanwhile, there's a substantial chance that the opportunity will pass after the midterms.

It's not dirty politics, nor the hypocricy, that I find appalling. It's acting in ways that do specific real damage to causes that they supposedly care about for marginal, purely political advantage.