A little research: Frans close game record

[Bulldogs1974]

I chose games that were decided by +/- 5 points (close games) and OT games; yes I understand that doesn't mean they were close but they should average out over time.

record in close games no OT:
Wins: 13 Loses: 26

Overtime
wins: 5 Loses: 9

Overall close game record:
Wins 18 Loses: 35

In the 2015-16 season (probably the most experienced team)
record:
wins: 1 Loses: 5

Record in OT:
wins: 2 Loses: 0

Overall:
wins: 3 Loses: 5

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

Yeah it's not good and it's a theme of Fran

 

[Bulldogs1974]

It should at least make you reevaluate how you are doing things. Logic would tell you to change things up.

 

[Fan In Black]

Thanks for the research.

 

[K OKeefe]

I chose games that were decided by +/- 5 points (close games) and OT games; yes I understand that doesn't mean they were close but they should average out over time.

record in close games no OT:
Wins: 13 Loses: 26

Overtime
wins: 5 Loses: 9

Overall close game record:
Wins 18 Loses: 35

In the 2015-16 season (probably the most experienced team)
record:
wins: 1 Loses: 5

Record in OT:
wins: 2 Loses: 0

Overall:
wins: 3 Loses: 5

It would be better but Coach Fran inherited a dumpster fire of a program from the Lickliter days. He has to rebuild all of the winning neurons in the program so he gets a pass because he is really only in about year one of the rebuilding process. After all, his first recruiting class just graduated last season.

 

[MepoDawg#]

It would be better but Coach Fran inherited a dumpster fire of a program from the Lickliter days. He has to rebuild all of the winning neurons in the program so he gets a pass because he is really only in about year one of the rebuilding process. After all, his first recruiting class just graduated last season.

Huh? This is year 7. End of game play has nothing to do with recruiting and everything to do with his gameplan.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I believe his best years were with Marble: Licklieters recruit.......
Also a guy that was more capable of breaking a defender down. Fran is the head man, he has not landed a player capable of breaking somone down one on one. So it is his fault...

 

[K OKeefe]

Huh? This is year 7. End of game play has nothing to do with recruiting and everything to do with his gameplan.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.

 

[hawk-i bob]

it still comes down to execution...by both teams. We can place blame on the coach...we can even blame it on our players but to not include the ability & talent on the other team would be ignoring that aspect.

Did the better team win last night? maybe not...although they did beat 2 pretty good teams on the road no less...maybe they are better than some of us think.

 

[K OKeefe]

it still comes down to execution...by both teams. We can place blame on the coach...we can even blame it on our players but to not include the ability & talent on the other team would be ignoring that aspect.

Did the better team win last night? maybe not...although they did beat 2 pretty good teams on the road no less...maybe they are better than some of us think.

http://theundefeated.com/features/furious-flames-inside-the-george-karl-and-kenyon-martin-feud/

Kenyon Martin blamed George Karl for the lack of working on end of game situations.
"Martin blames Karl for the Nuggets not advancing to their first NBA Finals appearance in 2009.

“He never worked on end-of-game situations,” Martin said. “Time. Score. Up three, down three. Those kind of situations. Out-of-bounds plays. Side out. We lost in the Western Conference Finals to the Lakers.

“We threw the ball away twice. A.C. [Anthony Carter] threw it away and I threw it away. You know why? We didn’t have any out-of-bounds plays. We beat the Lakers if we have out-of-bounds.”"

 

[hawk-i bob]

http://theundefeated.com/features/furious-flames-inside-the-george-karl-and-kenyon-martin-feud/

Kenyon Martin blamed George Karl for the lack of working on end of game situations.
"Martin blames Karl for the Nuggets not advancing to their first NBA Finals appearance in 2009.

“He never worked on end-of-game situations,” Martin said. “Time. Score. Up three, down three. Those kind of situations. Out-of-bounds plays. Side out. We lost in the Western Conference Finals to the Lakers.

“We threw the ball away twice. A.C. [Anthony Carter] threw it away and I threw it away. You know why? We didn’t have any out-of-bounds plays. We beat the Lakers if we have out-of-bounds.”"

Kenyon Martin blamed a lot of things on others...have you been to an Iowa practice to see first hand if they work on end of game situations, time, score, etc?

so Martin & his teammate throw the ball away & he blames it on his coach. That a way..take responsibility.

it still comes down to player execution vs. the other team.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

it still comes down to execution...by both teams. We can place blame on the coach...we can even blame it on our players but to not include the ability & talent on the other team would be ignoring that aspect.

Did the better team win last night? maybe not...although they did beat 2 pretty good teams on the road no less...maybe they are better than some of us think.

Good God. When you try to execute the same flawed play every time you decrease your odds of winning. When you put the ball in the hands of someone incapable of breaking down the guy defending him, you have a flawed plan. Execution is a pi$$ poor excuse. It's like saying if we just made the shot every time we would win more.
Oglesby made like 5 shots coming off screens his entire career but fran refused to stop running the same stupid set to get him that shot. Even if the play had been executed there was little to no chance he was going to make the shot. That pretty much sums up frans strategy at the end of games.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Kenyon Martin blamed a lot of things on others...have you been to an Iowa practice to see first hand if they work on end of game situations, time, score, etc?

so Martin & his teammate throw the ball away & he blames it on his coach. That a way..take responsibility.

it still comes down to player execution vs. the other team.

I don't need to be at practice to see what they do when it comes to this. Fran has run the same baseline screen set for 7 years. I have watched teams year after year beat us in the final 4 minutes because we do not sub offense for defense, play our favorites, pull guys that play the entire game to put in subs that play little to finish the game, pull our bigs and give up offensive rebound after offensive rebound, and not be able to stop a team at the end because we play our high % free throw shooters vs our best players.

Time and time again fran plays guys that have high % free throw numbers but fails to understand they rarely get to the line. So we give up easy points and can't score at the end of games. At least he could put in our best offense or best defense.

 

[K OKeefe]

Kenyon Martin blamed a lot of things on others...have you been to an Iowa practice to see first hand if they work on end of game situations, time, score, etc?

so Martin & his teammate throw the ball away & he blames it on his coach. That a way..take responsibility.

it still comes down to player execution vs. the other team.

I have never been to an Iowa practice. Of course, you will forgive me for living 26 hours away from Iowa City and not making it to a practice. I was merely offering up a possible explanation for the obvious failings in closing out close games. Just as you were offering up "Lack of execution" as a possible explanation.

 

[hawk-i bob]

Good God. When you try to execute the same flawed play every time you decrease your odds of winning. When you put the ball in the hands of someone incapable of breaking down the guy defending him, you have a flawed plan. Execution is a pi$$ poor excuse. It's like saying if we just made the shot every time we would win more.
Oglesby made like 5 shots coming off screens his entire career but fran refused to stop running the same stupid set to get him that shot. Even if the play had been executed there was little to no chance he was going to make the shot. That pretty much sums up frans strategy at the end of games.

so who would you prefer to put the ball in the hands of? If the strategy is so flawed..what suggestions do you have?

and yes if we made the shot every time we would win more...if we also didn't have unforced turnovers we probably wouldn't lose as many close games. I don't think it was Fran's idea or strategy to have Pemsl pass the ball while falling out of bounds ...that led to Watson's 3 pointer. That wasn't a failure in strategy...it was a failure in executing in getting the best shot possible. In that case..we didn't even get a shot at all.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

I believe his best years were with Marble: Licklieters recruit.......
Also a guy that was more capable of breaking a defender down. Fran is the head man, he has not landed a player capable of breaking somone down one on one. So it is his fault...

Marble never hit a game winning shot and was in fact a big part of the losing close games era of Fran.

One would know this if they had a clue what they were talking about.

 

[hawk-i bob]

I have never been to an Iowa practice. Of course, you will forgive me for living 26 hours away from Iowa City and not making it to a practice. I was merely offering up a possible explanation for the obvious failings in closing out close games. Just as you were offering up "Lack of execution" as a possible explanation.

I can agree with that...in Martins case he blamed his ill advised passes on his coach..that a boy Kenyon don't take any responsibility...blame it on someone else.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Seriously someone is still pointing back to Lickliter as an excuse for 2017? You can't use logic or facts with the kool-aid crowd. Fran needs 5 more years to get a PG. Uhl will be awesome next year, be patient. No other PG's want to come here because we are "just Iowa". Fran plays positionless basketball, so we don't need a PG because we have so many ball handlers. We have two guards who can dunk!!

I now see why participation trophies are given out in youth sports.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I would prefer to not see that 1-4 low set that has 4 people standing and one moving. Run a few high ball screens with the ball in joks hands. We started that way but jok gave it up to jbo at one point because he was too f'ing tired and fran didn't use a to. Get the other team to do a few switches so we have mismatches. WE DO NOT CREATE MISMATCHES..... Make it an option for more than one person to shoot.

Frans problems:
The thing is last play of the game situations the opposing team puts their best on ball defender on the the guard with the ball and we don't force a switch. We have only have a few games with marble that we were the superior player in this regards problem 1. We have a hard time even getting the ball to the baseline runner, problem 2.
Problem 3 we rarely if ever have our best offensive unit in the game for the final play.

 

[K OKeefe]

It would be better but Coach Fran inherited a dumpster fire of a program from the Lickliter days. He has to rebuild all of the winning neurons in the program so he gets a pass because he is really only in about year one of the rebuilding process. After all, his first recruiting class just graduated last season.

The guy that posted this is either delusional or his just being sarcastic!

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Marble never hit a game winning shot and was in fact a big part of the losing close games era of Fran.

One would know this if they had a clue what they were talking about.

well seeing as i went back through the seasons...

 

[hawk-i bob]

[

I would prefer to not see that 1-4 low set that has 4 people standing and one moving. Run a few high ball screens with the ball in joks hands. We started that way but jok gave it up to jbo at one point because he was too f'ing tired and fran didn't use a to. Get the other team to do a few switches so we have mismatches. WE DO NOT CREATE MISMATCHES..... Make it an option for more than one person to shoot.

Frans problems:
The thing is last play of the game situations the opposing team puts their best on ball defender on the the guard with the ball and we don't force a switch. We have only have a few games with marble that we were the superior player in this regards problem 1. We have a hard time even getting the ball to the baseline runner, problem 2.
Problem 3 we rarely if ever have our best offensive unit in the game for the final play.

well thought ...now if Fran would just learn a thing or two...
final play? I assume you mean the 2OT when Neb missed both free throws..who would you have had in other than the 5 that were in?
you didn't answer who you would put the ball in the hands of.

I'm not a basketball coach..don't pretend to be..so I will defer to your expertise...but even if Fran changed his strategy to your preferences...the players still need to execute "your" strategies & have the ability (maybe experience) to do so.

What cost us this game last night (other than the other team) were mistakes...made at critical times of which I have pointed out. Would a timeout had eliminated those mistakes ...maybe so.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

That does appear to be a very poor record in tight games.

For comparison, any numbers for other coaches over a similar time period?

 

[Mohawkeye]

I chose games that were decided by +/- 5 points (close games) and OT games; yes I understand that doesn't mean they were close but they should average out over time.

record in close games no OT:
Wins: 13 Loses: 26

Overtime
wins: 5 Loses: 9

Overall close game record:
Wins 18 Loses: 35

In the 2015-16 season (probably the most experienced team)
record:
wins: 1 Loses: 5

Record in OT:
wins: 2 Loses: 0

Overall:
wins: 3 Loses: 5

I get the analysis but the skeptic in me thinks it only tells a part of the story. How many of those games were away and how many home? Why 5 points? does it change when you go up to 6 or down to 2? How many times were his teams the underdog? I just think its a little too simplistic.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

a game winning shot is also not the only definition of being successful at the end of games. winning is.....

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I get the analysis but the skeptic in me thinks it only tells a part of the story. How many of those games were away and how many home? Why 5 points? does it change when you go up to 6 or down to 2? How many times were his teams the underdog? I just think its a little too simplistic.

you're right but at some point you have to be. By the way it gets worse when you go to 6 and 7 I believe.
I would think that over fran's tenure we have been at least or better than average, so one would think that all of your points about underdog etc would even out.

 

[hawk-i bob]

I get the analysis but the skeptic in me thinks it only tells a part of the story. How many of those games were away and how many home? Why 5 points? does it change when you go up to 6 or down to 2? How many times were his teams the underdog? I just think its a little too simplistic.

Ive sat thru many of meaningful close losses in Carver & the fieldhouse for that matter..
the loss against Michigan in 68 that cost us the outright title.
the multiple OT loss against Minnesota which was suppose to be the last game in the FH..and that loss cost us a better than 2nd place finish.
the opening game in Carver against MSU,,when Bob Hansen stepped on the line
etc etc etc etc..
remember the MSU game when Dev Marble was out..injured sick whatever it was..we played a highly ranked opponent and without one of our best players..had the game just to lose the game on a single mistake..

the one common thread was the team we played in most cases was not some worthless piece of crap...I know its not popular & its a lot easier to find fault in our coach & our players..but sometimes you have to hand it to your opponent. We don't like it....but its the truth.

OH I might add I don't remember very many close losses during the Lick'''era.

This is just me...I don't think there is some magical formula how to close games..it comes down to limiting mistakes, making shots & getting stops. I actually get more upset when we have played a great 1st half with solid leads (if there is such a thing) or are sitting pretty good in the 2nd half ..just to see our leads evaporate down to making it a close game.

Last night was a true college BB game...maybe a better Fran strategy would have made a difference..maybe it wouldn't of..we will never know.

I'll admit (call it kool aid if you want) I don't get any enjoyment in rehashing & trying to figure out why our coach cant win more close games. I look at the over all picture..which is total win-loss. Last night was a disappointment..2-1 is better than 1-2...Sunday is another day..2-2 is better than 1-3...I'm sure Rutgers will be wanting to get that 1st B1G win at our expense.

I've been around Iowa players over the years enough to know..they are the only ones that have any meaning in this thing called Iowa BB. Fans will never have the degree disappointment as the players do. If we expect them to move on from a close loss...then I'm willing to as a simple kool-aid drinking fan.

OK...you can attack if you want.

 

[2432Hawk]

I have no problem with not calling timeouts, did think however Bohannon should have used one when he picked up his dribble and was pinned on the baseline.

Also, remember the side line inbounds play from Baer to Bohannon vs. Michigan that got picked off?

That's one reason a lot of coaches don't want to use the timeout. You now have to inbounds the ball against pressure/set defense, and then get into your offense against a set defense. There are more advantages to not calling the timeout in my book as well and now that bench can't call live ball timeouts it is even more likley he won't.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I have no problem with not calling timeouts, did think however Bohannon should have used one when he picked up his dribble and was pinned on the baseline.

Also, remember the side line inbounds play from Baer to Bohannon vs. Michigan that got picked off?

That's one reason a lot of coaches don't want to use the timeout. You now have to inbounds the ball against pressure/set defense, and then get into your offense against a set defense. There are more advantages to not calling the timeout in my book as well and now that bench can't call live ball timeouts it is even more likley he won't.

agreed, , but
There was an occasion last night and multiple times last year, an actual streak if I recall correctly: where not only did we not get a good shot (or any shot for that matter) with the shot clock turned off but we actually allowed the other team to get a good look or score.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Yeah it's not good and it's a theme of Fran

He's just unlucky.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Seriously someone is still pointing back to Lickliter as an excuse for 2017? You can't use logic or facts with the kool-aid crowd. Fran needs 5 more years to get a PG. Uhl will be awesome next year, be patient. No other PG's want to come here because we are "just Iowa". Fran plays positionless basketball, so we don't need a PG because we have so many ball handlers. We have two guards who can dunk!!

I now see why participation trophies are given out in youth sports.

Everyone should pay attention to this rant. IM NOT THE ONLY HERE THAT UNDERSTANDS THIS PROBLEM!
Thank you.