According to Twitter it's going to be a long year

[SigMaintHawk]

Until the Illinois State game, its pointless to asses. Defense is always ahead of offense at this point. I am not saying its all rainbows and unicorns, but nothing surprises me. We knew the young tackles would struggle at times. Its good experience for them playing against Ott in practice. They wont face many better guys during the season if any.

The Ot's are being singled out because of how poor they have looked since spring, but what is the reason the rest of the O-line is looking pretty weak? Cj literally had around 2 seconds to chuck the ball away on quite a few plays. The running game wasn't that impressive either. The O- line was a concern after last seasons up and down performance. Has there been any improvement amongst the Guards? I didn't expect much from the Ot's, but I did think the guards would be improved.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Second, how could KF have not seen this coming last year? You knew you were going to have to replace 2 OT's. We were struggling last year at the guards. Would it have not made sense to get Myers and Boettger into the playing rotation with Welsh and Walsh last year so they would come back at least with some experience instead of moving Blythe to guard and bringing in Gual who adds no value for this season? How about recruitung a JUCO tackle? It's just things like these that leave you shaking your head. Zero foresight or there is no sense of urgency to produce.

Firstly, the ability for 2nd string guys to see action is typically predicated upon seeing clean-up action OR seeing action because the guy ahead of you is injured. Some factors that also impacted how things transpired:

1. A few years ago, Ward was the #2 RT. He's subsequently been passed on the depth chart by MULTIPLE guys. Why Ward hasn't been able to nail down a starting job? ... I don't know, although I have some guesses. Anyhow, had he been able to nail down a starting gig - that would have done wonders for the transition at OT this year.
2. Keppy is a guy who had the frame to play more on the outside. For whatever reason, he got pegged more as an interior guy than an exterior guy.
3. Last year Sean Welsh was seeing a good bit of practice at OT. Our depth on the interior line is far better than it is on the outside. Had Welsh not missed the spring ... then he potentially could have been in the mix to help push things on the outside. At the very least, we'd be a bit more prepared on the interior.
4. Donnal was a just a first year starter at RT in '14 - he played on the interior before that. It would have immensely helped the transition if somebody else had been able to beat him out for the RT spot. We had bodies on the roster - but nobody else seized the opportunity.

I'm not going to fault the coaches for opting to play Scherff and Donnal more last year. Firstly, they were opting to to "win now" rather than to preparing to "win tomorrow." Besides, Scherff and Donnal won their spots. To the victors go the spoils. By being able to get all those starting reps ... it helped the draft stock of those guys. I'm an educator - and I have absolutely no problem with another educator helping their top students to excel.

As for Tommy Gaul earning playing time last year ... he earned it. Did you watch those games? When he came in - the OL played BETTER! That is a credit to him for making the most of his opportunity. It's an important lesson for guys that age to learn ... they need to EARN everything they get. Nothing should just get handed to them!

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Has there been any improvement amongst the Guards? I didn't expect much from the Ot's, but I did think the guards would be improved.

We should certainly hope for there to be such improvement. However, with that said, the circumstances of the scrimmage did not provide the OGs with any favors. Firstly, Welsh missed the whole spring ... so he's already a bit behind compared to the other guys. Secondly, Walsh was absent ... he's a SR who's nearly a 2-year starter ... his absence SHOULD be felt. Lastly, play of the OGs is also dependent on communication with the other guys on the OL. Thus, missteps or missed assignments by the OTs directly impact the OGs.

For a bit of perspective, the ONLY regular starter (seeing action during the scrimmage) on the OL from the end of last season was Blythe ... and he was playing at OG back then!

 

[SigMaintHawk]

I know the situations concerning Welsh and Walsh. Iowa has signed plenty of Guards recently and have moved people like Keppy and LeGrand to the interior as well. They did not look good in the spring nor yesterday. They were mediocre at best last year. They will need to improve a hell of alot if this team is going to be better than last year. Right now, they look very slow/discombobulated/confused, and not physical at all. I understand it was just a scrimmage, but these issues plagued them last year. With all of the guards they have, you would think they could find a few that could play well together. Quality teams can survive injuries at the Guard position. We will see if Iowa is one of those quality teams or not.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Also, I understand they are still 'tinkering' with the O-line as they attempt to find players that can play. They were calling the most basic of plays early on yesterday- mostly short routes/dumpoffs/quick developing stuff. Cj was still getting a ton of pressure on him. The bottom line at this early juncture is the O-line is a major concern. Alot of improvement needs to be made and made quickly. Sidenote question? Who are the players on the current roster capable of playing Ot if either of the starters continue to struggle badly or sustains an injury?

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

That team had J Lewis and F Russell at rb. Gallery at LT, Sanders at Safety and Kaeding at Kicker. Kaeding was a big weapon for the team that year. Notice the difference in that team vs this current team? That staff also included Carl Jackson.,Ron Aiken,Norm Parker, etc.. and didn't include GD. That is a huge difference between then and now.

Jermelle Lewis was dinged almost the entire 2003 season. He was a shadow of what we saw back in 2002. Freddie carried the offense on Gallery's back ... almost quite literally.

Say what you will - but neither Razor or Cal Davis were as good as Tevaun. Frankly, were were rather snake-bit at WR that year. Solomon was lost for the year due to academics, Hinkel was loast for the season due to injury, and Brown was dinged for much of the season and didn't become much of factor for the O. We lost Dallas Clark - so '03 marked one of the few years where the TE wasn't really a big strength for the Hawks.

The 2003 OL wasn't a thing of beauty. The only real winning formula was - run left behind Gallery ... or inside-zone right, then follow part of the cutback lane formed by Gallery.

As for QB, Nathan Chandler was a huge ... so it was funny seeing him knock over LBs trying to tackle him. However, he wasn't the best of passers. He was a game-manager at best ... and that was good enough given the quality of our D.

I agree about the comment concerning Bob Sanders ... even though he was oft injured during the '03 season ... he was one of the few flashy ego/skill guys for the Hawks (on either side of the ball) to really be a strong, vocal leader. Typically Iowa's most vocal leaders are "pluggers" ... and their rallying cries don't inspire the skill guys the same way. Sanders was arguably worth his weight in gold for that D.

However, while Sanders and Considine were an exceptional duo at safety ... Iowa's group of CBs that year weren't as good as our current group. Jovon was certainly good ... but his height (or lack, thereof) still got exploited more than a few times.

I'll be curious how the comparison on the DL ends up playing itself out. The '03 DL obviously featured Roth in his first year as a regular starter - and he was opposite a veteran in Howard Hodges. At DT, Babs and Clauss were slated as starters ... but Babs got injured at around the half-way mark of the season and was lost of the season. As for Clauss, he was dinged off and on through the season and missed a few games and wasn't nearly as productive as he was the prior season. Due to injuries, Robinson, Neubauer, and Luebke rotated in and out at DT ... with Luebke eventually winning a regular job next to Clauss. I really like Iowa's 2015 DTs ... I think that those guys will develop into a really good group once they get used to getting that many reps.

Also, while the staff was certainly had the impressive guys you listed - Iowa had just lost Philbin to the Packers. That departure was "felt" on the squad ... at least for a time. Furthermore, I honestly believe that Kennedy is a better WR coach than Erb, Coach Reid is a fantastic LB coach, Brian Ferentz is a rapidly improving offensive line coach, and I'd take Reece Morgan in his 4th year coaching the DL over a Reece Morgan in his 1st year coaching the OL. As absurd as it may sound to some - I've always been one who contended that O'Keefe was perfect fit at Iowa given the constraints set by the head honcho's philosophy. It was a mistake when the fishbowl eventually squeezed him out of Iowa City.

 

[RocknRollface]

The last few of you still making excuses need to accept reality.

The longer Ferentz stays the worse off the program will be.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Also, I understand they are still 'tinkering' with the O-line as they attempt to find players that can play. They were calling the most basic of plays early on yesterday- mostly short routes/dumpoffs/quick developing stuff. Cj was still getting a ton of pressure on him. The bottom line at this early juncture is the O-line is a major concern. Alot of improvement needs to be made and made quickly. Sidenote question? Who are the players on the current roster capable of playing Ot if either of the starters continue to struggle badly or sustains an injury?

If Welsh hadn't missed the spring - I wouldn't have been surprised if he got the nod as the #3 OT. He saw action there last year in practice. Otherwise, my guess is that Croston is the #3 OT. The coaches clearly like him .... it's just that it has taken time for him to physically develop into the position.

What I'm perhaps most curious about is about the progression of Brian Ferentz as an OL coach. Once Reece Morgan got used to coaching the OL ... we ended up getting spoiled and having very few "misses" on the OL. Almost every OL recruit we had ended up developing into either a starter or a strong contributor (McMillan being one of the very few who was a "miss"). Since Brian Ferentz took over, we've seemingly had an uptick in the number of "misses."

 

[Eburghawk]

James Daniels is already playing part time with the first team O-Line. Because he has raw talent. One of the few players we've signed in the past couple classes that could play for most upper tier programs. Other programs bring in full recruiting classes with players of that caliber.

Our talent level is closer to 1999 levels than many want to admit and it's really going to come home to roost this season.

Watching the PGA championship while typing this so a golf analogy seems appropriate. If Kirk Ferentz was competing in match play with the rest of the Big 10 rosters based on talent, we'd be getting several strokes from most teams, and a couple would let us tee it up from the ladies tee's as well.

 

[And1Hawk]

Firstly, the ability for 2nd string guys to see action is typically predicated upon seeing clean-up action OR seeing action because the guy ahead of you is injured. Some factors that also impacted how things transpired:

1. A few years ago, Ward was the #2 RT. He's subsequently been passed on the depth chart by MULTIPLE guys. Why Ward hasn't been able to nail down a starting job? ... I don't know, although I have some guesses. Anyhow, had he been able to nail down a starting gig - that would have done wonders for the transition at OT this year.
2. Keppy is a guy who had the frame to play more on the outside. For whatever reason, he got pegged more as an interior guy than an exterior guy.
3. Last year Sean Welsh was seeing a good bit of practice at OT. Our depth on the interior line is far better than it is on the outside. Had Welsh not missed the spring ... then he potentially could have been in the mix to help push things on the outside. At the very least, we'd be a bit more prepared on the interior.
4. Donnal was a just a first year starter at RT in '14 - he played on the interior before that. It would have immensely helped the transition if somebody else had been able to beat him out for the RT spot. We had bodies on the roster - but nobody else seized the opportunity.

I'm not going to fault the coaches for opting to play Scherff and Donnal more last year. Firstly, they were opting to to "win now" rather than to preparing to "win tomorrow." Besides, Scherff and Donnal won their spots. To the victors go the spoils. By being able to get all those starting reps ... it helped the draft stock of those guys. I'm an educator - and I have absolutely no problem with another educator helping their top students to excel.

As for Tommy Gaul earning playing time last year ... he earned it. Did you watch those games? When he came in - the OL played BETTER! That is a credit to him for making the most of his opportunity. It's an important lesson for guys that age to learn ... they need to EARN everything they get. Nothing should just get handed to them!

Points 1 & 2 are understandable.

Point 3 if true is almost laughable that Welsh would play a tackle spot. Do you go to games. If so look at the huddle if you want to get a good idea of height and overall size of our OL. It's pretty revealing. Welsh is a guard based on size.

Point 4 is Donnal was a tackle from day 1 but to get onto the field he had the athleticism to play guard and ended up rotating with Walsh. VanSloten & Scherff were established tackles the prior 2 years. Great idea to get him on the field for some live game experience. He was an NFL draft pick.

So we played Gaul and moved our natural center to guard forgoing this opportunity to get Myers and Boettger the opportunity for some meaningful game experience that may have helped their transition this year. Some may forget Scherff played some spot duty at guard his RS freshman season before going to tackle the next season. The questiom still remains was the value of rewarding a 5th year guy more important than getting the future guys some meaningful experience?

 

[nu2u]

You do realize that a number of the heights are inflated, especially when a guy is undrsized,

Do you have evidence of this or is this something you made up?

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Point 3 if true is almost laughable that Welsh would play a tackle spot. Do you go to games. If so look at the huddle if you want to get a good idea of height and overall size of our OL. It's pretty revealing. Welsh is a guard based on size.

I agree that Welsh is far from having the ideal height for a tackle ... and yet he's practiced there in the past. I'm not saying it would be a favorable option ... but, at least it's one that could have permitted some flexibility.

After all, Yanda played both OT and OG for us ... and folks would say that he doesn't have OT height either.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

The question still remains was the value of rewarding a 5th year guy more important than getting the future guys some meaningful experience?

That is the question! However, given how Ferentz built the Hawks from the outset ... with a "next man in" mentality ... it's valuable to reward the hard work, dedication, and team-mentality that a lot of those guys have.

 

[And1Hawk]

Do you have evidence of this or is this something you made up?

Let's do this. Blythe is listed at 6'3" and my guess is he will be an NFL combine invite. Let's see what he measures there. I know that is a ways out but I would bet you can keep this post in your mind for that long I assume. What I like is the NFL does an exact measurement.

Do you attend games or not?

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Unofficial stats- I've read varied reports, this is info from the Gazette-14 overall sacks by the defense. Ott and Meier combined for 8, with Ott having 6. Mabin had 1 on a corner blitz against the first team O-line. The "team" is credited with 4 sacks due to so many players actually being in on the sack/kneel downs by the QB.

Rushing stats- 44 for 118 yards.
Daniels-3 attempts for zero yards
Canzeri- 2 attempt for minus 1 yards
Mitchell-9 attempts for 23 yards with the first team Offense, 13-51 overall
Wadley 13-34

others carrying the ball were Weigers,Beathard,Joly, and Graham. Most avg around 2 yards a carry at best.

Stats are prolly useless in a scrimmage type setting, but this is what is being put out there by the Gazette.

 

[nu2u]

Do you attend games or not?

You stated that heights were inflated as a matter of fact. They may or may not be true I don't know (I'm skeptical) but you claimed this was a fact. Facts can be verified. What is your evidence? So far, your proof seems to be your estimation of player heights while watching games from the stands. Is that it?

 

[Vroom_C14]

I know a couple of the heights and weights are pretty spot on for a current OG, K, LB. Also they were for a few previous players as well. I don't think they are messed with.

 

[JRHawk2003]

What programs get classes of guys like Daniels besides OSU and a few others? When have we ever? We have never had great classes. We depend on player development, especially with linemen.

It will never be good enough for some people.

Im not throwing in the towel because of a scrimmage.

Bielma isnt coming, Stoops isnt coming and the next coach may or may not do better than KF.Ole Joe Tiller is looking pretty good to the Purdue people now I bet.

 

[studed]

4-8. The nightmare ends after this year.

That's what it took for Michigan 5-7 hoke gone. If he would have went 7-5 he would have come back. Sometimes the best thing that can happen is to have a season that is so bad it forces change

 

[SigMaintHawk]

What programs get classes of guys like Daniels besides OSU and a few others? When have we ever? We have never had great classes. We depend on player development, especially with linemen.

It will never be good enough for some people.

Im not throwing in the towel because of a scrimmage.

Bielma isnt coming, Stoops isnt coming and the next coach may or may not do better than KF.Ole Joe Tiller is looking pretty good to the Purdue people now I bet.

I'd settle for a Zusevics or Scherff right now. Guys that other programs thought were good enough for scholarships. You currently have 2 of the top 3 OT's as walk ons...another 1 that was recruited as a TE by ISU. Iowa has gotten good OT prospects in the past... Guys like Scherff,Dace Richardson, and Bulaaga to name a few. the problem now is they have whiffed on so many(Piersbacher,Campos,Wallace,Okorafor, etc...,etc...., etc,.. the list is around 20 prospects long in the past 3-4 years) and not been capable of finding anything resembling a decent replacement. You can't tell me that KF's plan heading into his 17th year was to have walk ons filling up the depth chart at OT. How in the hell can that be looked at as a recipe to get this team back to a form of relevance?

 

[JRHawk2003]

Two of our biggest prospects...Larson and Doering barely every played. Gallery and Steinbach were both TE's and Reiff was a DE-LB. I think he looks for guys that fit a mold. Yeah, getting the CF kid would have been great, but there is no guarantee he would be all that. Larson wasn't, Doering wasn't. Boetger has a chance to be a good one. KF has sent enough guys to the NFL. I think he has an eye for it.

I have concerns too that they won't be ready, but I am not throwing in the towel. Ive watched 40 seasons of the good, bad and ugly.

 

[MitchL]

Holy crap... am I depressed. Haven't read the football forum for a week or so and seeing these comments is downright scary. With this schedule, a 3-4 win season will put even the most loyal of fans on suicide watch.

 

[And1Hawk]

You stated that heights were inflated as a matter of fact. They may or may not be true I don't know (I'm skeptical) but you claimed this was a fact. Facts can be verified. What is your evidence? So far, your proof seems to be your estimation of player heights while watching games from the stands. Is that it?

So you do not attend games? This means you have not seen these guys lined up side by side or on the field after a game in person?

Someone in this thread mentioned Marshal Yanda, arguably the best guard in the NFL. If you go and look him up at Iowa he is listed at 6'4".... Now with the Ravens, 6'3". There's one of many examples you can chew on.

Like I said let's see where Blythe measures out at this year's combine. Will it be 6'3" or will it be less?

 

[And1Hawk]

You stated that heights were inflated as a matter of fact. They may or may not be true I don't know (I'm skeptical) but you claimed this was a fact. Facts can be verified. What is your evidence? So far, your proof seems to be your estimation of player heights while watching games from the stands. Is that it?

Here is another one to look at from last year;

Andrew Donnal
Listed at 6'7" while at Iowa, NFL now lists him a 6'6". There's an inch difference between college and pro's in a couple of months.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Do you have evidence of this or is this something you made up?

It is made up. Go look at the heights from their recruiting, they are all the same with, Boettger being 1" higher now. I suppose the weights could be off(Ike was 220, now 300). But the size is there, regardless.

As per OP , playing experience would not have hurt last year. That said, the OTs Boone & Ike are going up against Ott & Meier DAILY (At least for the next week or so). They will be improving daily. That is experience worth noting. There will be much more 1s vs 2s, OL vs DL, in the last couple weeks of camp to improve the offensive efficiency.

There is no cause for concern with the OL vs DL just yet. Now if there isn't any improvement shown in the scrimmage in 2 weeks, and then the 1st game, then there will be some nail-biting. But i would think that there will be steady growth with this group.

 

[GarryO37]

Two of our biggest prospects...Larson and Doering barely every played. Gallery and Steinbach were both TE's and Reiff was a DE-LB. I think he looks for guys that fit a mold. Yeah, getting the CF kid would have been great, but there is no guarantee he would be all that. Larson wasn't, Doering wasn't. Boetger has a chance to be a good one. KF has sent enough guys to the NFL. I think he has an eye for it.

I have concerns too that they won't be ready, but I am not throwing in the towel. Ive watched 40 seasons of the good, bad and ugly.

Ross Pierschbacher is starting at LG for Alabama as a RS Freshman this season. He is starting over Juniors and Seniors on the Bama roster. I think it's safe to say that he is the real deal and losing out on him sucks.

 

[trippnschmidt]

That's what it took for Michigan 5-7 hoke gone. If he would have went 7-5 he would have come back. Sometimes the best thing that can happen is to have a season that is so bad it forces change

I will never understand this line of thinking. I don't think it's possible for me to root against the Hawks regardless of how I feel about the coach.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Ross Pierschbacher is starting at LG for Alabama as a RS Freshman this season. He is starting over Juniors and Seniors on the Bama roster. I think it's safe to say that he is the real deal and losing out on him sucks.

It happens, but its not the end of the world.

 

[bouma1415]

It is made up. Go look at the heights from their recruiting, they are all the same with, Boettger being 1" higher now. I suppose the weights could be off(Ike was 220, now 300). But the size is there, regardless.

As per OP , playing experience would not have hurt last year. That said, the OTs Boone & Ike are going up against Ott & Meier DAILY (At least for the next week or so). They will be improving daily. That is experience worth noting. There will be much more 1s vs 2s, OL vs DL, in the last couple weeks of camp to improve the offensive efficiency.

There is no cause for concern with the OL vs DL just yet. Now if there isn't any improvement shown in the scrimmage in 2 weeks, and then the 1st game, then there will be some nail-biting. But i would think that there will be steady growth with this group.

Yeah, let's wait 2 weeks. If the offense starts clicking, then all of the doomsdayers will say that the defense sucks, and the Hawks are in deep doo doo. Or you could wait until after the first 2 games to put on your doomsday faces.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

Doomsdayers just want Ferentz gone. I'm sick of seeing crappy offensive play - however, I'm not certain that is on Ferentz as much as it's on Greg Davis.

I'm not certain how good or bad the Hawks will be this year - I think that the D could be definitely quite good. However, I sadly surmise that the O will probably remain an enigma for at least one more year. I'll be curious how the O looks next year ... however, that may be too late if the team doesn't win enough games. If Ferentz stays for '16 - then I think that the O has potential to be pretty darn good. If he doesn't, then the O will be learning a new system (as will the D) and who knows how we'll fare.