Alec Baldwin and prop lady to be charged with 2 counts of involuntary manslaughter.

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I have a hard time seeing how he would be convicted unless he did break a rule about handling guns on set.

That said I think the rules should be updated so that every person in the chain of handling the fire arm confirms for themselves that it is in fact not loaded.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

I understand your general sentiment (as a person who's a huge believer in mercy), but that is precisely the reason that the lesser charge (and reduced penalties) of involuntary manslaughter exists. A person has died, perhaps as a result of serious (not just ordinary) negligence, and society should demand some responsibility for that rather than it being a simple civil matter between private parties.

I understand the charge. And I'm OK with it. I just hope he's found not guilty.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I have a hard time seeing how he would be convicted unless he did break a rule about handling guns on set.

That said I think the rules should be updated so that every person in the chain of handling the fire arm confirms for themselves that it is in fact not loaded.

You can’t put that on actors.

 

[ericram]

Exactly, and I have not once said he should go to jail if he did nothing wrong. I simply said if it proves he was negligent with his handling of the weapon, he should. I dont think any person here knows the evidence the state has against him, yet everyone is saying he shouldn't go to jail. What evidence do you have that says he is not guilty? What if the weapons expert and armory manager told him that particular weapon was hot? Do you know for sure that didn't happen?

Good questions.

What evidence do you or they have to prove he is guilty? That's the question for the jury. If they can prove he had some intent that caused the death of a person then he will be convinced.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You can’t put that on actors.

Why not? Someone hands me a gun I want to visually confirm for myself that it is not loaded.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Why not? Someone hands me a gun I want to visually confirm for myself that it is not loaded.

It was a revolver with dummy rounds.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It was a revolver with dummy rounds.

Still doesn't take much time to confirm that for yourself.

 

[NoleinATL]

It was a revolver with dummy rounds.

My question from reading about this when it happened, and now after charges were filed, is why live rounds would be anywhere near the set in that scenario. I am sure live rounds may be used for "action" shots or something but in a very controlled manner. There should be zero reasons to have a live round near the set with all those people in harm's way.
Criminality lies with the person in charge of the gun, I disagree with the DA stating an actor should be the final arbiter on if the gun is safe, that is why they hire an armorer.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Still doesn't take much time to confirm that for yourself.

Inexperienced actors are going to confirm which rounds are blanks? I suppose you could put that responsibility on them. I wouldn’t.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

My question from reading about this when it happened, and now after charges were filed, is why live rounds would be anywhere near the set in that scenario. I am sure live rounds may be used for "action" shots or something but in a very controlled manner. There should be zero reasons to have a live round near the set with all those people in harm's way.
Criminality lies with the person in charge of the gun, I disagree with the DA stating an actor should be the final arbiter on if the gun is safe, that is why they hire an armorer.

Totally agree.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

I’m not super familiar with all the legal details…but I’m not sure how you can charge him for this…seems like a slippery slope…if I’m driving my car and the steering goes out due to a manufacturing defect and it runs onto a crowded sidewalk….am I suddenly on the hook for manslaughter?

 

[Aardvark86]

I’m not super familiar with all the legal details…but I’m not sure how you can charge him for this…seems like a slippery slope…if I’m driving my car and the steering goes out due to a manufacturing defect and it runs onto a crowded sidewalk….am I suddenly on the hook for manslaughter?

No, not at all. On the other hand, if you're a mechanic acting as your own wrench, and you know the steering is dangerously shot but just blow it off and drive around in it on crowded streets anyway, you might be. And maybe even if you're not your own wrench, but your actual mechanic lets you know about it, pleads with you not to drive it, and you do anyway.

 

[Derekd3408]

Good questions.

What evidence do you or they have to prove he is guilty? That's the question for the jury. If they can prove he had some intent that caused the death of a person then he will be convinced.

None. Which is why I simply stated IF there is evidence of negligence on his part he should go to jail. If not, he shouldn't.

 

[GOHOX69]

this

I cannot see how a jury would give him jailtime without knowingly shooting a hot gun. of course, unless there is evidence to disprove that of course.

You don't need specific intent for involuntary manslaughter. Gross negligence resulting in death or dismemberment is good enough in most jurisdictions.

 

[ericram]

You don't need specific intent for involuntary manslaughter. Gross negligence resulting in death or dismemberment is good enough in most jurisdictions.

Exactly. Gross negligence is going to the challenge to prove.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Inexperienced actors are going to confirm which rounds are blanks? I suppose you could put that responsibility on them. I wouldn’t.

I would have the armorer show them the difference between the two and then have everyone in the chain confirm that it is in fact loaded with blanks.

Remember they are not the only people confirming this, I am saying anyone who touches the gun checks it.

 

[GOHOX69]

Exactly. Gross negligence is going to the challenge to prove.

True. But manslaughter cases usually aren't hard swallows for the jury unlike say 2nd degree murder.

 

[Derekd3408]

True. But manslaughter cases usually aren't hard swallows for the jury unlike say 2nd degree murder.

Be careful, I think we are amongst some pretty high end lawyers here. I'm surprised Alec hasn't contacted a few posters for legal advice.

 

[GOHOX69]

Be careful, I think we are amongst some pretty high end lawyers here. I'm surprised Alec hasn't contacted a few posters for legal advice.

I'm an extremely low end lawyer. My crim law professor though is now an actual big time judge

 

[Bro D]

I've actually worked on many Hollywood movie sets, but I won't pretend to know all the weapons protocols in place. You do know they have those, right? Doesn't take joe Hollywood to know that you stupid fvck.

 

[MitchLL]

I'm willing to bet some posters that agree with these charges being filed are people that didn't like Baldwin mocking their favorite Republican President on SNL for four years.

 

[Derekd3408]

I'm willing to bet some posters that agree with these charges being filed are people that didn't like Baldwin mocking their favorite Republican President on SNL for four years.

There it is. Surprised it took so long, not surprising you are the culprit though.

 

[Aardvark86]

I'm an extremely low end lawyer. My crim law professor though is now an actual big time judge

...and for the record, I am self-aware enough to know that I do not belong anywhere near a courtroom, let alone in a criminal case. My best friend though...he's your man.

 

[Rifler]

Someone is eventually going to have to explain why there were any live rounds on this set...

 

[ericram]

Someone is eventually going to have to explain why there were any live rounds on this set...

IIRC there was a lot of union issues during the filming. One has to has ask if it was done on purpose.

 

[Rifler]

IIRC there was a lot of union issues during the filming. One has to has ask if it was done on purpose.

I thought I heard talk of some occasional off camera target shooting going on for fun,... If true, very bad deal.

 

[BelemNole]

If found guilty I can see this fundamentally changing the movie industry. Which might not be a bad thing.

 

[Rifler]

If found guilty I can see this fundamentally changing the movie industry. Which might not be a bad thing.

I think the industry as a whole has a pretty good record in this area,.. This particular set however appeared to have some problems.

 

[BelemNole]

I think the industry as a whole has a pretty good record in this area,.. This particular set however appeared to have some problems.

True enough, but if he's found guilty for firing the weapon and not for some responsibility in producing then all movies with guns will change.

 

[Derekd3408]

If found guilty I can see this fundamentally changing the movie industry. Which might not be a bad thing.

I'm surprised live rounds were allowed on a movie set. Seems like future situations could easily be avoided with a live round ban.

 

[Madman_1]

It was a revolver with dummy rounds.

... and at least one live round.

 

[beanerhawk]

Still doesn't take much time to confirm that for yourself.

Does a dummy round look a lot different then a live round? I'm seriously asking I don't know what they look like.

 

[Rifler]

Does a dummy round look a lot different then a live round? I'm seriously asking I don't know what they look like.

Yes,.. but you would have to extract the rounds to visually confirm they were all blanks.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Does a dummy round look a lot different then a live round? I'm seriously asking I don't know what they look like.

Generally, yes. But my point to Hoosier is if you’re relying on an actor to check live rounds vs blanks your processes are already screwed up.

 

[beanerhawk]

Generally, yes. But my point to Hoosier is if you’re relying on an actor to check live rounds vs blanks your processes are already screwed up.

Good point, if your doing that why wouldn't you just make them load their own guns for the movies? Might be the way to go about it anyway I guess.

 

[Derekd3408]

Does a dummy round look a lot different then a live round? I'm seriously asking I don't know what they look like.

 

[ericram]

Yes,.. but you would have to extract the rounds to visually confirm they were all blanks.

I looked this up. It's not that easy to tell the difference. Someone has to know what to look for or someone had to tell a person what to look for to tell the difference.

 

[Rifler]

Generally, yes. But my point to Hoosier is if you’re relying on an actor to check live rounds vs blanks your processes are already screwed up.

I think Hoosier's point was more along the lines that anybody touching that gun had some level of responsibility in knowing what it carried,... I agree with that.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I think Hoosier's point was more along the lines of anybody touching that gun had some level of responsibility in knowing what it carried,... I agree with that.

I agree with it 99%
Not an actor on a film set.

 

[Rifler]

I looked this up. It's not that easy to tell the difference. Someone has to know what to look for or someone had to tell a person what to look for to tell the difference.

Yeah, that's how most things in life work.