"I think I'll play my kids ahead of NBA talent."
Amarion Nimmers Practice Highlights are IMPRESSIVE. On Aug 3, enters Transfer Portal
- Thread starter Franisdaman
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BrewHawk...."I know more than the coach because I was at every practice. I know exactly when those NBA players made the jump needed to put themselves in that position by executing on the floor what the team was doing."
I think my argument holds more water, especially when post-season results are considered with the relative talent we've had.
Also yes, I think I would be a better college basketball coach then McCaffery had I chosen that profession.
It doesn't take much to coach better defense than he does, that's for sure.
Also, Connor obviously didn't have the ability to make any sort of jump. When does Patrick make his jump to be an NBA prospect? He chose to play them over the #4 pick in the draft who is about to break the all-time rookie record for 3 pointers in a season and his brother who is also a projected first round pick. The blatant nepotism is hard to ignore.
Yeah, I think my argument is better.
A bit full of yourself? And no way to prove it or support it? Geez
No. There are a lot of people out there who would be more successful in a given profession had they chosen a different path. I consider Fran to be an average coach. There are likely a lot of high school coaches who are better coaches, they just chose to not pursue college basketball.
Also, I'm sure there would be people who chose not to do what I'm doing who would probably be better at it if they had gone a different direction.
So you're saying you could have taken three different colleges, all in one bid leagues, to The Dance, and taken Iowa to 8 of the last 10. And you're saying that's average. OK
I don't think that you are in touch with reality when it comes to the coaching profession. I don't pretend to be an expert, I'm certainly not, but to achieve the level of success that Fran has....it's just absolute looney tunes to think he is an average coach.
As fans we see in game coaching and results, player recruiting and development, and maybe a little bit more of what is involved....all on a surface level. I obviously have no idea what you do for a living, how old you are, how successful you are......but, you have to be a serious stand out in whatever you do if you are capable of being a better coach than Fran. Let me make sure of this.....I don't think Fran is perfect, I don't like the defensive results and I wish we recruited better.....but it takes major ability as a coach to achieve what he has done.
Big picture, yes, I think he's an average coach. I think the Big Ten gets more in the tourney than they deserve, with the results bearing this out over time.
I think a coach who has the results he does with the relative talent that has been on the roster is average. I think a coach that ignores a glaring hole in his philosophy (defense) and doesn't do anything about it is average. I think a coach who doesn't hold his players accountable with playing time and effort given (again, mainly with defense and rebounding) is average. A coach who has to stick to a hard and fast two foul rule that limits the defensive effort is average.
He would make a great offensive coordinator (if that labeled position existed), but as a head coach, he has significant deficiencies and benefits from a fan base and athletic director who are happy with the status quo, which includes zero runs into the Sweet Sixteen in the NCAA tourney over his entire career. How many high level programs have done that in that time period again?
Objectively, his record is 259-171 while at Iowa over 13 years. When you look at games you should win vs games you should lose, according to any level of favorite vs underdog, he has won 77 games as an underdog and lost 109 games as the favorite. So, there is a 32 game swing there that puts his "true" record at 243-187. I would also argue that more of the games are guaranteed wins vs guaranteed losses (due to playing soft non-conference teams vs elite teams). His Big Ten career record puts him at 7th out of the 14 teams at just above .500. Very average.
I'm going to throw this at you perryhawk, if you were the head coach, would you give this kid a scholarship over the guards that Iowa has on it's roster right now?
Even though it's a "best of" video, you've got to admit that the eye test is more then enough to warrant a review of roster status...
Iowa hasn't had a player that athletic and skilled since early 2000's.
You must have a lot of time on your hands. But I forgot for a moment that you'd be better at this than the guy who rebuilt four universities' men's BB programs, all of which had been in the toilet. (But I imagine you think nearly anyone could do that.) When the Iowa job does eventually open up, I hope you apply. No doubt you'd turn us into a consistent Sweet 16 team and occasional national champion. Piece of cake.
So instead of saying “cool, he has an impressive highlights video” it’s turned into Another shit all over Fran and the men’s basketball program thread. How refreshing. Do you ****s ever stop?
Let me start by saying I have found the Nimmers recruitment and his ongoing development to be one of the most interesting elements of Iowa basketball in a long time. I LOVE Hawkeye basketball and can't get enough recruiting updates and off season player development updates.. And holy crap, Nimmers athleticism combined with the fact that he clearly has some decent level of skill is REALLY intriguing....I would absolutely be out of my mind happy if I could watch some practices and see how he performs in scrimmages, etc.....Can't wait to see what he turns in to....kind of reminds me of Daryl Moore back in the day...very athletic, was a great player in the Prime Time League and eventually earned a scholarship and contributed during games. Love those stories.
All that said the answer to your question is, I don't know.....why, because I haven't seen him in practices and seen who he is. I don't know why he didn't have high major offers, hell why didn't he have Mo Valley offers coming out of HS? I would like to know the answer to that. He certainly appears to me to be a high level athlete with some skills, had a very good HS career, and if I remember right he was a team captain so I think academics and character are not issues.....but something is holding him back-SO FAR.
My question back to you would be, don't you think Fran wants to win at the highest levels? That answer is, of course he does....so the real question is, if Fran wants to win and he had a guard on the roster that was ready to play, why wouldn't he play him?
I guess I'm not getting it. I'm frustrated with the Hawks lack of tourney success, too, but on the other hand I'm happy with the consistent NCAA participation and upper division Big 10 finish. I'm tend to be an optimist, and I believe people and coaches can change their approach. Hoping that happens with our defense. I don't think the tourney disappointment warrants posters on this forum saying things like FM being the worst coach, being an average coach, not wanting to win, etc. While I'd love to see improved defense and deeper tourney runs, I don't get the constant complaining about a coach who resurrected the program and has had a lot of regular season success.
If you were implying I'm ignorant about what a good coach is, I was national coach of the year for junior/community college for guiding the team to the national tournament in the school's first year of competition, with all freshmen, and then making the Elite Eight in our 2nd year. Prior to starting that program, I was inducted into another college's athletic HOF as a coach. Granted, that was in a different sport, but I typically can distinguish good coaching from bad. I know the hard work that goes into it even before the season starts, the excitement along with the disappointment that goes with recruiting (such as getting rejections over the phone from the top 6 recruits on my list all on the same night one year). Based on the accounts I read and hear, I think Fran works his tail off recruiting. And he does it ethically and recruits young men who have yet to embarrass the university and its fans.
I'm happy I coached before the days of social media. I'm smart enough to get that.
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That's the twenty-four thousand dollar question, I know Dix played a lot this year, I thought his shot release was slow but he had a few games that he looked really good, there were others games that I just shook my head and said to my self that he just wasn't ready for prime time. Conversely, Bowen looked good early in the minimal game minutes that he played in and then nothing from him the rest of the year.
I just didn't get Fran's playing his starters so many minutes at the end of the year as I could see that physically they were getting worn down. Anyway, I guess I'm dumb enough that giving him a scholarship would be a no brainer if I had the say so. Hope that no matter what transpires over the next 7 months we get to see him show his athleticism and skill set in a Hawkeye uniform instead of sitting on the bench as a glorified cheerleader. That's my wish for next year...
The point I don't think you're getting is there are a lot of talented people who choose to go into other walks of life who could have been successful in something else.
Congratulations on your coaching career! You have made great accomplishments and hopefully been a very positive influence on your players.
Things that would make me tolerate Fran more even if he won less would be better bench decorum, not chasing a referee down after a game to berate him, being able to inspire better mental toughness and effort in his players and the hardest one is the ability to realize his sons' limitations. Also be able to fill out a full roster of scholarship players rather than leaving it two short.
I'm a big believer in the team reflecting the coaches personality when adversity occurs. In Fran's case I don't see that as a positive.
Not if it effects his boys court time
What’s crazy is people are bitching about a kid Fran discovered and got to walk on because he’s not playing or on scholarship already (which for all we know he may be).
We agree regarding Fran's bench decorum. As a former coach who on occasion wasn't on my best behavior toward refs, I empathize with him. But I do wish he'd work harder to control his emotions. It took me years to finally figure out that refs had feelings, too, and were probably better influenced thru respectful comments and humor than with anger. Deep down, I think Fran is a good person who thinks he's doing right in standing up for his players. His players, by all accounts I've heard, love him.
And we agree regarding the players reflecting the coach's personality. If the coach overreacts to bad officiating calls and dwells on them, the players often follow his lead. Gotta be able to roll with it and forget about it.
And I do agree that many talented people could succeed in a variety of paths. Where I guess I don't get it is the constant complaining from many posters here and the unfair assessment IMO that he's an average coach. An average coach doesn't lead 4 different programs to the dance and doesn't finish in the top half of a power conference year in and year out.
I should probably spend more time reading, writing, playing with our granddaughter, and getting ready to garden than following this forum. But I'm like a few others here who hold out hope that next year will be the year. Believe me, when Lick was coaching, this hope was gone.
Yeah, it can get a bit toxic here.
At this point, college basketball success is largely defined by tourney performance, right or wrong.
I was raised on effort-based, defensive basketball and Iowa just doesn't play that way which really turns me off.
The reason for lack of tourney success is because defense travels and we don't play any. I see an above average coach being able to recognize this and adjust, which we haven't seen yet from Fran. You can't argue with his success at multiple programs, but that level of success, although repeatable, has been relatively modest in the big scheme of things.
Ironic, when in last year's post-season failure, one pair of brothers was 0-8 from 3 and the other pair was 4-9. Or, one-to-one, Kris was 0-5 and Patrick 4-7.
Richmond 67-63 Iowa (Mar 17, 2022) Box Score - ESPN
Box score for the Richmond Spiders vs. Iowa Hawkeyes NCAAM game from March 17, 2022 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.
Ironic, when in last year's post-season failure, one pair of brothers was 0-8 from 3 and the other pair was 4-9. Or, one-to-one, Kris was 0-5 and Patrick 4-7.
Richmond 67-63 Iowa (Mar 17, 2022) Box Score - ESPN
Box score for the Richmond Spiders vs. Iowa Hawkeyes NCAAM game from March 17, 2022 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.www.espn.com
You can tell where the opponent's emphasis was and who they thought could beat us.
They were right, it wasn't Patrick.
I agree Perry. The whole Nimmers thing is a bit odd to say the least. Super athletic, clearly. In this day and age, however, how did he not at least get offers from Drake, or some other pretty solid mid majors? I mean wouldn't it be great to have an athletic 2 guard that can get his own shot and such? Until I actually see him contributing on the court I'm not going to hold my breath honestly. Now if Fran turns that into a scholly soon and he goes out and kicks ass on the overseas trip this Summer than maybe I will change my mind.
Its one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in basketball.
He shot over %40 from 3 in High-school too.
Obviously we're missing something because no one offered but what could it possibly be? Dude looks like an NBA talent in every highlight video and that is not the case with most college recruits.
Only thing I can figure is he doesn't really know how to the play the game and forces shots every time he touches the ball. I have seen guys like that occasionally.
Otherwise if he was just average in other areas he'd have had offers.
I would have thought that an above average coach, would have sometime in the last 10 years or so, would have made a couple or a few coaching changes to try and upgrade the defense. Just a thought.
This logic is the dumbest sh** I've ever read on here. This is worse than the KC guy claiming Ogundele is really good. How do we have fans this absolutley irrational.
"Objectively, his record is 259-171 while at Iowa over 13 years. When you look at games you should win vs games you should lose, according to any level of favorite vs underdog, he has won 77 games as an underdog and lost 109 games as the favorite. So, there is a 32 game swing there that puts his "true" record at 243-187. I would also argue that more of the games are guaranteed wins vs guaranteed losses (due to playing soft non-conference teams vs elite teams). " Swayed logic, that has no point whatsoever. None, it's amazing you took the time to try to have this actually make sense. Just say you don't like Fran's record in the tourney, and his sideline behavior. It's at least justifiable, and this comes from someone who wouldn't mind seeing Fran gone.
Wouldn't you rather have a coach who wins more games where he's supposed to lose than lose more games when he's supposed to win?
This really isn't that hard to follow.
I just want a coach to win games. I'm trying hard to not be a d***, but what the hell does whether he's supposed to win or lose have to do with anything?
Let me say again, I don't care if we fire him at this point, I really don't, but......
Here's the logic for Fran:
Get rid of his first two seasons at least, because he walked into an absolute sh** show. We were as pathetic of a program at that point that existed in this country. Lickliter can eat the biggest D*** ever. There was no transfer portal to rescue him right away, like there is now. If you aren't willing to cut him slack on those first two years, you have a bias or an agenda. So let's move on to his last 11 years at Iowa.
He's made the top 6 in the Big Ten in 10 of those 11 years. That's not easy to do, no matter how any troll tries to spin it. That's really fricking hard. In that same time frame, Painter has finished in the top 6 eight total times. Tom Izzo, nine times.
He's made the NCAA tournament eight of the last 11 years. Eight!! We have the 5th longest streak of making the tournament in the entire country.
He has taken little known players and turned them into Players of the year. He's had four players drafted in the last three years(including Kris). That's really good.
Despite our idiotic fans saying things like "Well if Luka didn't have a dad to develop him", or "well the Murrays were from Iowa". Well, no sh**. That's how it works. That's why other programs have had more success, because they have mass amounts of awesome players from their home state. We use the dumbest logic on this board to justify being overly negative about the situation.
These are all really really good things.
So yes, if the end all be all in your argument is how he performs in the tourney, then I get it, but just say that. Don't spin stupid sh** like you did above.
I admit that I'm developing a slight case of McCaffery fatigue, but I think about all the coaches that have been hired and eventually fired in the 13 years McCaffery has been here mainly because they couldn't match the success he's had.
Some people want to justify his existence as the Iowa coach because of his tourney appearances and regular season success. I don't see that as success when the Big Ten is an over-selected, over-rated league. This bears out in how the league does from one year to the next. Wisconsin being the biggest exception because they actually play defense.
In the end, the tourney success is the measuring stick and he's failing dramatically (always has). We should have had at least one Sweet Sixteen run in the past 13 years. I'm not going to let the argument that he's done "above average" (actually 7/14) in the Big Ten be appropriate justification for keeping him around.
I'd trade half those NCAA berths if we made it out of the first weekend a time or two.
So using that logic.....coming out of high school the MAC's were fairly highly rated recruits....the Murray's not so much (Eastern Illinois the only offer)....so LOGIC says that maybe the MAC's were more prepared early and therefore played more....where as the Murray's exceptional talent really came about as they matured, first in prep school, and then after a year or two at Iowa.....when the MAC's haven't improved as rapidly as the Murray's because they didn't have the level of undeveloped potential that the Murray's had......that could explain the playing time as well.......vs just looking for the negative.
Jesus. What an absolute ass-kicking. Well done sir.
Also, if we are going to analyze the frequency with which Fran's teams make the NCAA tournament, it's fair to include the 2019-2020 team in that calculation because they were 100% guaranteed locks to make the tournament that year. Obviously, I make no guarantees on how they would have performed in the tournament, but they would have made the tournament without a doubt.
NCAA tournament success is a stupid way to evaluate teams and coaches. It's really fun and entertaining. But it's a single elimination tournament with a colossal amount of luck involved (i.e. some days the three pointers just don't fall and some days 60+% of them are falling).
It also reveals holes in your philosophy. Defense in this case, not that it needs any more exposure.
The Big Ten is not an over-rated, over-selected league. Rather, it is a deep league that is not as good at the top as the other strong basketball leagues. That is, in any given year, there are a lot of Big Ten teams ranked between 20-40 (via whichever objective ranking system you choose) but the Big Ten champion is weaker than the champion of the other strong leagues. So you see a bunch of B10 teams making the tournament but not making deep runs.
In terms of how it affects my perception of Fran, I'd say that playing in a deep league like this makes it harder to consistently be above 500, as he's done. If he were a truly great coach he'd be able to win this league from time to time due to the lack of a true blue blood in the league. He's not a great coach. But he is a good coach, in my view, because it's not easy to consistently beat 500 in this league and especially not at Iowa. It'd be stupid to fire a good coach.
What are you talking about? I have news for you: sometimes good defensive teams get beat in the NCAA tournament.
