Americans who locked in a job, a home, and stocks are thriving. Everyone else missed out on their ticket to wealth.

[SoDakHawk]

Again, you're discrediting certain degrees. Is any degree worth coming out of college 100K in debt? Even some lawyers I know in their 40's are still paying off college loans because they got married and had kids and bought a house. The facts are still that kids w/college degrees earn way more money over a lifetime than non college degree students. Trades are great, and you can make a nice living, but it's super hard work and also big wear and tear on the body. In general the owner gets rich, no different than most companies. If someone wants to get a degree in history and get into academia what's wrong w/that? Or go into teaching? For some reason people love to discredit our teachers which makes absolutely zero sense to me.

It's all relative. My first job out of school in 1995 paid me about $16k, which I rapidly moved up to make about $25k in a couple years. Then $30k a few years later. If a person graduated with only $16k in debt back then, that wasn't horrible.

Today an engineering graduate, dependent upon field, can expect a starting salary in the $76k range. $100k in debt for a $76k starting salary. That's not too unmanageable.

 

[SoProudNole]

Such bullshit. I see people going from floor nurses to highly-paid managers in only a few years in my industry.

If you're smart, work hard, and aren't a Karen, you can go as far as you want to go.

But are any of them any better at their job than you are at yours?*
























* Assumption is that your job is shit posting in this place 8-10 hours a day.

 

[littlez]

It's all relative. My first job out of school in 1995 paid me about $16k, which I rapidly moved up to make about $25k in a couple years. Then $30k a few years later. If a person graduated with only $16k in debt back then, that wasn't horrible.

Today an engineering graduate, dependent upon field, can expect a starting salary in the $76k range. $100k in debt for a $76k starting salary. That's not too unmanageable.

So I was lucky enough to go to school 40 years ago when college was nothing. And also had some money from my dad passed down for college for my 3 kids so they have no debt either. I know you're saying 100K in debt is not a lot but what's the normal interest rate on that? I'm with you, you need that degree, especially an engineering degree, but 100K of debt at 5-6% interest is a lot of money. The rising costs of college continues to make no sense to me.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Retired CPA here. I had clients that wanted to know the "big tax saving tricks" that the wealthy guys used to get rich. But, of course, they weren't even maxing out their 401k. Some weren't even participating.

For 99% of us, it comes down to simple blocking and tackling. Spend less than you make, maximize your 401k, buy houses and cars that you can afford - not just what you want.

And maybe the most important - if you want to get ahead you still have to work hard, despite all the "life balance" stuff. Or don't - but don't complain about not getting promoted or pay increases.

 

[Tenacious E]

$50k. LOL. I have a kid in college. That's half of what it takes these days.

I've socked away what I thought would be a good sum for college, enough to pay about half and get him started in life. Now I know that I will probably work for a couple years longer than I thought and help him out more than I expected I would need to. I'm fine with that, one or two more years will fly by for me.

The way I see it, if a kid racks up $100k in education debt that it should be treated as an investment in their future. People have no problem plunking down $50k+ on a vehicle, a depreciating asset. So, it stands to reason that dropping $100k, two vehicles, on something that will provide you a career and earnings potential for the rest of your life, that is not a terrible investment.

All that said, the state should be doing a whole lot more to fund education at state schools to bring down the costs. It should not cost $30k per year (total cost of attendance) to attend a state school.

As for field of study, he's going to engineering school.

I agree with a lot of this. My parents are huge believers in education and paid for my undergrad and in return, only asked that I do the same for my kids. I cannot think of a better use of our money beyond providing food, shelter, and healthcare. I would rather open as many doors as I can for them early in life than have them with limited doors, only to get a pile of money years later. The one thing I will say is that it isn't quite that expensive at Iowa for my college-aged kid. I'm paying about 25 grand per year at Iowa, but that includes room and board. I know you said the 30 was for total cost of attendance, but in my view, room and board would be required anyway at a higher cost if he was not a student and he was out on his own. At Iowa, it is quite reasonable for what you get in return.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

I wouldn't want to be starting out these days. The political class has really done a number on the younger generation.

Americans who locked in a job, a home, and stocks are thriving. Everyone else missed out on their ticket to wealth.

Americans who locked in jobs, homes, and stocks a few years ago have seen their wealth balloon. Everyone else missed out.

www.businessinsider.com

Ahhh. Basically, smart, hard-working, Americans are going fine and the younger ones who are smart and hard-working will do fine too.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Vehicles is where almost anybody can save a ton of money. My last two cars I drove to work in cost less that $20,000 combined with no money down. I figured no matter what I spend it’s going to be a piece of junk after 200,000 miles so why bother.

The money I saved on cars I invested in Apple Microsoft Google and Amazon.

People make financial choices everyday and don’t even know it. See lots of people with gas guzzling trucks and SUVs that their income level doesn’t justify and often these same people utter comments along the lines of “well we needed a vehicle to get me to work”.

country would be better off if 3% was automatically pulled from everybody’s pay check and put into an index fund they couldn’t touch until 55 years old and all home and new car purchases needed 20% down payment. You would instantly see less consumer debt and smaller economically affordable homes being built.

 

[SoDakHawk]

So I was lucky enough to go to school 40 years ago when college was nothing. And also had some money from my dad passed down for college for my 3 kids so they have no debt either. I know you're saying 100K in debt is not a lot but what's the normal interest rate on that? I'm with you, you need that degree, especially an engineering degree, but 100K of debt at 5-6% interest is a lot of money. The rising costs of college continues to make no sense to me.

I'm not saying it's not a lot of money. It is. I wish it was cheaper. I believe that if each state increased funding to their state higher education system to reduce costs at state schools that it would have an exponential effect and our nation would be better off. That said, dropping $100k on your future to make $100k plus per year a few years down the road is an investment in your future. People piss away money on stupid stuff all the time. Investing in your future is not pissing money away.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

I agree with a lot of this. My parents are huge believers in education and paid for my undergrad and in return, only asked that I do the same for my kids. I cannot think of a better use of our money beyond providing food, shelter, and healthcare. I would rather open as many doors as I can for them early in life than have them with limited doors, only to get a pile of money years later. The one thing I will say is that it isn't quite that expensive at Iowa for my college-aged kid. I'm paying about 25 grand per year at Iowa, but that includes room and board. I know you said the 30 was for total cost of attendance, but in my view, room and board would be required anyway at a higher cost if he was not a student and he was out on his own. At Iowa, it is quite reasonable for what you get in return.

My college was paid for by my parents. I think I'm going to have my kids take out student loans, have them take whatever the government might give them with these ridiculous loan forgiveness programs that are probably going to keep growing in popularity, and then I'll pay the rest of the loans back for them.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Vehicles is where almost anybody can save a ton of money. My last two cars I drove to work in cost less that $20,000 combined with no money down. I figured no matter what I spend it’s going to be a piece of junk after 200,000 miles so why bother.

The money I saved on cars I invested in Apple Microsoft Google and Amazon.

Vehicles are the worst way to spend your money. I'm 41, $5.5M net worth, have never spent more than $11,000 on a vehicle. Most of my vehicles have been $7,000 or less. Always have paid cash.

 

[goldmom]

Again, you're discrediting certain degrees. Is any degree worth coming out of college 100K in debt? Even some lawyers I know in their 40's are still paying off college loans because they got married and had kids and bought a house. The facts are still that kids w/college degrees earn way more money over a lifetime than non college degree students. Trades are great, and you can make a nice living, but it's super hard work and also big wear and tear on the body. In general the owner gets rich, no different than most companies. If someone wants to get a degree in history and get into academia what's wrong w/that? Or go into teaching? For some reason people love to discredit our teachers which makes absolutely zero sense to me.

That wasn’t my overall point and how many of us who earned a degree in anything will remember what was often said about four years spent in college- that half of what you learn is not gained inside the classroom.
I have a grand nephew who just graduated from high school in June with excellent grades - he has decided to enter a trade school instead of a four year college and we are very excited for him. He’s going to have a skilled trade and a great paying job in his future.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Vehicles are the worst way to spend your money. I'm 41, $5.5M net worth, have never spent more than $11,000 on a vehicle. Most of my vehicles have been $7,000 or less. Always have paid cash.

Lots of people will work extra years in jobs they hate only because they just had to have “that car” to get them to work.

 

[BrunoMars420]

1980. Southern California. A nice neighborhood in Orange County. $125,000. That was a lot of money back then but thank heavens we had just sold our house in northern New Jersey which was another expensive market. But a 12.5% interest rate on our mortgage was still expensive. Especially if my husband’s salary was maybe $35,000 IIRC. Other expenses that people have today didn’t exist then. No cable bill or Internet or computers. No cell phones. No Starbucks.
I looked up that house on Zillow recently. $1.6 million. For a 3/2 1700 square foot house.
Insane.

And now you see the struggle for the younger generations. Then add in student loan debt and wages not keeping up over the years and you have the mess we have now.

 

[littlez]

My college was paid for by my parents. I think I'm going to have my kids take out student loans, have them take whatever the government might give them with these ridiculous loan forgiveness programs that are probably going to keep growing in popularity, and then I'll pay the rest of the loans back for them.

So hold on here. Your parents paid for your school, so you had zero debt, but you can't pay for your kids college but yet you think the student loan forgiveness program is ridiculous? You don't think it was an advantage for you to come out of college owing nothing? I know it was for me and also for my kids. I have kids living in pretty expensive parts of the country but they have no car payments and no loans to pay back so they can at least live pretty reasonably. Now buying a house is another story!

 

[CaboKP]

Student loan forgiveness without a reform on college is a band aid. The root cause must be where it starts, but the problem is complex.

Great, they go from $40,000 in student loan debt to $30,000. Problem solved!

 

[goldmom]

My college was paid for by my parents. I think I'm going to have my kids take out student loans, have them take whatever the government might give them with these ridiculous loan forgiveness programs that are probably going to keep growing in popularity, and then I'll pay the rest of the loans back for them.

Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals just rejected the Biden loan forgiveness scheme once again.

 

[Tenacious E]

My college was paid for by my parents. I think I'm going to have my kids take out student loans, have them take whatever the government might give them with these ridiculous loan forgiveness programs that are probably going to keep growing in popularity, and then I'll pay the rest of the loans back for them.

I can appreciate the gamesmanship but I will swing it on my own leaving the opportunity for others.

 

[goldmom]

And now you see the struggle for the younger generations. Then add in student loan debt and wages not keeping up over the years and you have the mess we have now.

I understand it very well. My own children are in their 40’s so they’re just a step ahead of millennials and Gen Z’s who are having a struggle at the moment.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals just rejected the Biden loan forgiveness scheme once again.

Good. My kids are about 10 and 8 years away from college though. I'm sure the Democrats will find a way within the next decade to make large swaths of student loan debt, both past and future, "forgivable".

 

[Hawki97]

My college was paid for by my parents. I think I'm going to have my kids take out student loans, have them take whatever the government might give them with these ridiculous loan forgiveness programs that are probably going to keep growing in popularity, and then I'll pay the rest of the loans back for them.

Freeloading, silver spoon having piece of shit.

 

[Ree4]

For all you complaining that people should be able to afford a house because your rates were high, see below.

 

[SoDakHawk]

As Boomers start dying off at a rapid rate, won't that put some supply back on the market?

Just like the Social Security issue, won't that large generation dying off ease some of the pressure?

Not saying that the issues shouldn't still be addressed, they should, just saying that the situation may not be as bad as we're making it out to be.

Remember that the largest transfer of wealth from one generation to the next in the nation's history is just starting.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Freeloading, silver spoon having piece of shit.

Weird, if my kids qualify for the ridiculous, wasteful, government handout of student loan forgiveness, I'm a freeloading, silver spoon, piece of shit?

 

[Tenacious E]

As Boomers start dying off at a rapid rate, won't that put some supply back on the market?

Just like the Social Security issue, won't that large generation dying off ease some of the pressure?

Not saying that the issues shouldn't still be addressed, they should, just saying that the situation may not be as bad as we're making it out to be.

Remember that the largest transfer of wealth from one generation to the next in the nation's history is just starting.

I am just thinking about it anecdotally in my terms, but when my parents pass and if there is wealth to be transferred, it will be to me and my brother. My brother is rich AF at age 54, and I am doing okay for myself at 50. We will have even more juice relative to the younger people starting out. So undeniably there will be a transfer of wealth but I'm not sure it changes the analysis for people struggling.

 

[Tenacious E]

For all you complaining that people should be able to afford a house because your rates were high, see below.

Isn't the recent run up in prices driven in no small part by companies buying up residential properties and renting them out? If they want to stop that then they should tax rents collected by corporations at a higher rate. Rather than the government handing out money to others, it would collect more revenue while bringing home prices down some.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Isn't the recent run up in prices driven in no small part by companies buying up residential properties and renting them out? If they want to stop that then they should tax rents collected by corporations at a higher rate. Rather than the government handing out money to others, it would collect more revenue while bringing home prices down some.

Government shouldn't interfere with market cycles.

 

[Hawki97]

Weird, if my kids qualify for the ridiculous, wasteful, government handout of student loan forgiveness, I'm a freeloading, silver spoon, piece of shit?

You’re the freeloader that had your parents pay for your college broseph. Should have been a real man and got a job and done it yourself. Such a weak ass generation.

 

[Tenacious E]

Government shouldn't interfere with market cycles.

Government imposes taxes and tax breaks all of the time in an attempt to shape behavior of its citizens.

 

[goldmom]

As Boomers start dying off at a rapid rate, won't that put some supply back on the market?

Just like the Social Security issue, won't that large generation dying off ease some of the pressure?

Not saying that the issues shouldn't still be addressed, they should, just saying that the situation may not be as bad as we're making it out to be.

Remember that the largest transfer of wealth from one generation to the next in the nation's history is just starting.

I’m a Boomer who’d sell and downsize to a one story but everything out there in a decent area is every bit as expensive or more so.
And there’s still a big group of Boomers who haven’t hit 65 just yet. So SSI will keep expanding for a bit at the young end and longer life for older Boomers is not shrinking quickly like in past years. Think about how underwater SS would be if so many young men in that age group hadn’t died in Vietnam. 😏

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

You’re the freeloader that had your parents pay for your college broseph. Should have been a real man and got a job and done it yourself. Weak ass generation.

Naaah.... I think if the parents are affluent enough, it's still the job of the parents to pay for their kids' undergraduate school. That's what I'll do for my kids.

But you see now we have the wasteful, ridiculous, government bail outs of student loan debt in the horizon. So the financially prudent thing for me to do is to have my kids get their loans, have my kids milk all the government handouts (while still teaching them to hate Democrat government waste of course) and then I'll gift them money to pay the remainder of their loans from what they weren't able to milk from the wasteful, lazy-inhibiting, ridiculous, government student loan hand outs.

And this will allow my early college grads to build their credit faster, start off early in life just like I did, investing and purchasing income generating assets because they are free from the burdens of student loan debt.

 

[Tenacious E]

I’m a Boomer who’d sell and downsize to a one story but everything out there in a decent area is every bit as expensive or more so.
And there’s still a big group of Boomers who haven’t hit 65 just yet. So SSI will keep expanding for a bit at the young end and longer life for older Boomers is not shrinking quickly like in past years. Think about how underwater SS would be if so many young men in that age group hadn’t died in Vietnam. 😏

On the other hand, they would have been paying into the system, and many surviving wounded wouldn't have been disabled and/or on disability for decades.

 

[goldmom]

On the other hand, they would have been paying into the system, and many surviving wounded wouldn't have been disabled and/or on disability for decades.

It doesn’t take long to get back every dime you paid in over the years. The payout is much greater than the pay in.
The large number of surviving vets on disability for decades might indicate that your point may be off the mark.

 

[littlez]

Naaah.... I think if the parents are affluent enough, it's still the job of the parents to pay for their kids' undergraduate school. That's what I'll do for my kids.

But you see now we have the wasteful, ridiculous, government bail outs of student loan debt in the horizon. So the financially prudent thing for me to do is to have my kids get their loans, have my kids milk all the government handouts (while still teaching them to hate Democrat government waste of course) and then I'll gift them money to pay the remainder of their loans from what they weren't able to milk from the wasteful, lazy-inhibiting, ridiculous, government student loan hand outs.

And this will allow my early college grads to start off early in life just like I did, investing and purchasing income generating assets because they are free from the burdens of student loan debt.

Typical Republican asshole.

 

[goldmom]

Typical Republican asshole.

Where is he wrong? What’s bad about using your own money to pay your own way?

 

[Tenacious E]

It doesn’t take long to get back every dime you paid in over the years. The payout is much greater than the pay in.
The large number of surviving vets on disability for decades might indicate that your point may be off the mark.

Fair points. I'm 50 and haven't really gotten dialed into how SS operates. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

Typical Republican asshole.

And I take that as a compliment.

 

[stanzithemanzi12]

It doesn’t take long to get back every dime you paid in over the years. The payout is much greater than the pay in.
The large number of surviving vets on disability for decades might indicate that your point may be off the mark.

Correct. It's way more tax advantageous for me not to pay myself a salary out of my company and just pay capital gains tax, but I still pay myself a small, $1,800 a month salary just so I'm paying at least something into social security (based on my accountant's advice). Then the recommendation is for me to take social security at the earliest age possible because I'll likely get paid back, within two years every single penny I paid into social security tax.

 

[littlez]

Where is he wrong? What’s bad about using your own money to pay your own way?

He got a free ride to college via his parents (paid nothing himself) and either now can’t or won’t pay for his kids college but he will take advantage of a Democratic program if it’s available to get his kids loans taken away. And then still bitches about the Democratic Party.

 

[joelbc1]

This could be a whole other thread, but I would tend to agree with you on the condition that the Gov't or universities and colleges weren't funding worthless degrees. Education is one thing but meaningless degrees that lead to an opportunity to be a waitress or line cook shouldn't exist. While we are at it, high schools should be encouraging more kids to look at the trades.

“worthless degrees”? Who the hell are you ( or me) to make that decision? All the “necessary” education on receives is basically given to you by the end of the 8th grade. by then one should be able to “Read, write and cypher”….and that is really all the education that is necessary…right?

 

[goldmom]

He got a free ride to college via his parents (paid nothing himself) and either now can’t or won’t pay for his kids college but he will take advantage of a Democratic program if it’s available to get his kids loans taken away. And then still bitches about the Democratic Party.

Gotcha.