Appeal Denied

[MSU158]

I guess I don't get the outcry on this.

Does the punishment fit the crime? Probably not.

Yet the rules and subsequent punishment were very clear, not like it was some secret how severely they would enforce this if caught.

Blame lies solely on the athletes to me. Just don't freaking gamble as a college athlete, problem solved.

If the action itself were against the law, I would 100% agree with you. But, when the action is something that is newly legal in many states and the advertising is nearly non-stop on social media, television, radio, etc., it is very difficult to expect 18-22 year olds not to dabble.

The above is especially true when it is as simple as loading an app to your phone(which is how nearly every person in that age group spends 75% or more of their conscious life glued to). Yes, they should have known the rules, but the punishment should more accurately fit the crime(even though it technically isn't one).

To me, the punishments rendered are basically the equivalent of giving 30 days of jail for driving 60 mph in a 55 mph zone. Yes, they broke rules they absolutely should have known just like the above, but the appropiate fine is (0-2 points) and maybe a $150 dollar fine. A full year supsension for anything less than betting on your own sport, or collusion with another student athlete in another sport, is ridiculous...

 

[moug]

Not really. College sports as we know it could be on the chopping block. Football and basketball thrive and make a bunch of money and all the non revenue sports go bye bye. Right now you are going to have kids from the Stanford softball team travelling across the country to the ACC schools to play mid week games. Does that make sense? No. All these decisions are being made with football/money as the sole purpose. Go back to regional conferences that actually make sense.

It’ll be the current alignment for football only and back to regional conferences for everything else. Multiple media agreements for each conference.

 

[Iron Doc]

It’s a bunch of bullshit!! NCAA is trash!!

Damn right!

 

[Iron Doc]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Redm18]

Lessened it from lifetime ban to 1 year, which for our guys was lifetime ban since they had one season of eligibility. I confused about Nelson, because he claimed he had another season to use after this one and was going to take it. Now less than 2 months later is throwing in the towel.

If I had to guess he decided that if he's not going to be competing this year it's not worth it to have his whole life in flux until at least April maybe later for the NCAA to decide if he gets a medical hardship or not. Probably just wants to move on with his life.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

I guess I don't get the outcry on this.

Does the punishment fit the crime? Probably not.

Yet the rules and subsequent punishment were very clear, not like it was some secret how severely they would enforce this if caught.

Blame lies solely on the athletes to me. Just don't freaking gamble as a college athlete, problem solved.

What if the punishment were a life sentence or the death penalty? Take it to the extreme as a thought exercise and then you can understand the outrage. Things aren't as simple as "the penalty was clearly defined, they should have known better".

Yes, the wrestlers ****ed up and broke the rule. Yes, the penalty is still egregious and deserves ridicule despite the fact that it was a clearly defined rule and the athletes were wrong to violate it.

And if the NCAA is going to harshly rule against the athletes in defense of fair competition, then why are they not diligently drug testing for PEDs or diligently checking for other compliance violations beyond relying solely on schools to self report. It's a sham.

 

[kkhawk]

I guess I don't get the outcry on this.

Does the punishment fit the crime? Probably not.

Yet the rules and subsequent punishment were very clear, not like it was some secret how severely they would enforce this if caught.

Blame lies solely on the athletes to me. Just don't freaking gamble as a college athlete, problem solved.

This is kind of how I feel. It's ingrained into every student athlete not to gamble....

 

[redbirdhawk]

We have state attorney general Brenna Bird to thank for this fiasco. She started the investigation, using underlings from Dubuque County and Potowattame County to do her dirty work.

 

[GoHawks1996]

What if the punishment were a life sentence or the death penalty? Take it to the extreme as a thought exercise and then you can understand the outrage. Things aren't as simple as "the penalty was clearly defined, they should have known better".

Yes, the wrestlers ****ed up and broke the rule. Yes, the penalty is still egregious and deserves ridicule despite the fact that it was a clearly defined rule and the athletes were wrong to violate it.

And if the NCAA is going to harshly rule against the athletes in defense of fair competition, then why are they not diligently drug testing for PEDs or diligently checking for other compliance violations beyond relying solely on schools to self report. It's a sham.

Then push for a change to the rule while simultaneously following it. Don't cry foul just because you got caught.

You're acting like this is some hard to follow rule, like not drinking Dasani water but all other waters are okay. It's so insanely simple. Don't gamble, and ESPECIALLY don't gamble on your own school. This is painfully simple and could've been easily avoided.

Edited to add maybe they should've made the punishment a life sentence or death penalty. Then these dummies might have actually followed the (incredibly simple and easy to follow) rule of not gambling.

 

[burk11]

We have state attorney general Brenna Bird to thank for this fiasco. She started the investigation, using underlings from Dubuque County and Potowattame County to do her dirty work.

The NCAA, The Big Ten Conference ( and I believe the University of Iowa) utilize integrity monitoring service(s). Services specifically designed to gather and analyze sports gambling/bookmaking. The intent is to protect the integrity of athletic competition.

When suspicious activity is observed and/or warranted, the member school, the conference, the appropriate regulatory agency, and law enforcement is notified. It would seem this course of action was followed.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

The NCAA, The Big Ten Conference ( and I believe the University of Iowa) utilize integrity monitoring service(s). Services specifically designed to gather and analyze sports gambling/bookmaking. The intent is to protect the integrity of athletic competition.

When suspicious activity is observed and/or warranted, the member school, the conference, the appropriate regulatory agency, and law enforcement is notified. It would seem this course of action was followed.

So the only two schools in the country where this was observed were the University of Iowa and Iowa St University. Sounds pretty fishy to me

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

This is kind of how I feel. It's ingrained into every student athlete not to gamble....

It's also ingrained in them not to drive drunk or drink underage. Yet when they do, they aren't suspended from competition for one year.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Then push for a change to the rule while simultaneously following it. Don't cry foul just because you got caught.

You're acting like this is some hard to follow rule, like not drinking Dasani water but all other waters are okay. It's so insanely simple. Don't gamble, and ESPECIALLY don't gamble on your own school. This is painfully simple and could've been easily avoided.

Edited to add maybe they should've made the punishment a life sentence or death penalty. Then these dummies might have actually followed the (incredibly simple and easy to follow) rule of not gambling.

You ever get a speeding ticket? You ever break any rules in school or in society?

Your logic is ridiculous. No one is disputing that they were wrong to break the rule. Everyone is ridiculing the egregiously harsh punishment that doesn't fit the violation.

You're incredibly dense for not getting that.

By your logic, as long as a rule is clearly defined, then who cares how harsh the punishment is or if the rule even makes sense to begin with. None of that matters. Just don't break rules. And don't question the rule to begin with.

🙄

 

[so cal hawkfan]

You ever get a speeding ticket? You ever break any rules in school or in society?

Your logic is ridiculous. No one is disputing that they were wrong to break the rule. Everyone is ridiculing the egregiously harsh punishment that doesn't fit the violation.

You're incredibly dense for not getting that.

By your logic, as long as a rule is clearly defined, then who cares how harsh the punishment is or if the rule even makes sense to begin with. None of that matters. Just don't break rules. And don't question the rule to begin with.

🙄

Holy sh*t I am in agreement with Vodka on this one. It’s a Christmas miracle!! 😉

 

[GoHawks1996]

You ever get a speeding ticket? You ever break any rules in school or in society?

Your logic is ridiculous. No one is disputing that they were wrong to break the rule. Everyone is ridiculing the egregiously harsh punishment that doesn't fit the violation.

You're incredibly dense for not getting that.

By your logic, as long as a rule is clearly defined, then who cares how harsh the punishment is or if the rule even makes sense to begin with. None of that matters. Just don't break rules. And don't question the rule to begin with.

🙄

This isn't "real life" though. This is college athletics. They are held to a higher standard than your average Joe.

When you have the privilege of being a D1 athlete, you agree to a different set of rules than the average college student/person. One of those rules is not gambling.

Just like drinking in highschool is pretty much a non-issue for non-athletes, but if you get caught as an athlete you're losing a season of eligibility.

 

[GoHawks1996]

You ever get a speeding ticket? You ever break any rules in school or in society?

Your logic is ridiculous. No one is disputing that they were wrong to break the rule. Everyone is ridiculing the egregiously harsh punishment that doesn't fit the violation.

You're incredibly dense for not getting that.

By your logic, as long as a rule is clearly defined, then who cares how harsh the punishment is or if the rule even makes sense to begin with. None of that matters. Just don't break rules. And don't question the rule to begin with.

🙄

You're treating this as if somebody HAS to be a student athlete. I'm treating it as a privilege that comes with a lot of rules that don't apply to the typical college student.

They also bet on their own school, which everybody knows is a huge no-no. That needs to be a pretty severe punishment, even if they reform the rules.

I would lean more your way if they had bet on ufc or nfl or something, but everybody knows it's a bigger deal if it's your own school.

 

[Muscles1989]

I guess I don't get the outcry on this.

Does the punishment fit the crime? Probably not.

Yet the rules and subsequent punishment were very clear, not like it was some secret how severely they would enforce this if caught.

Blame lies solely on the athletes to me. Just don't freaking gamble as a college athlete, problem solved.

Exactly, if they wouldn’t have done this in the first place they’d never have to deal with the consequences.

 

[burk11]

So the only two schools in the country where this was observed were the University of Iowa and Iowa St University. Sounds pretty fishy to me

Research suggests the vast majority of college males engage in some form of gambling/gaming activity. Likely that a number of 'college athletes' are part of that cohort.

Rest assured a statutory offense is a red flag for Iowa State's Attorney (and for any law enforcement official). Reported evidence strongly suggest more than an NCAA infraction; rather breach of several State of Iowa statutes.

 

[12tdsaw]

i bet this betting company advertises on btn

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

This isn't "real life" though. This is college athletics. They are held to a higher standard than your average Joe.

When you have the privilege of being a D1 athlete, you agree to a different set of rules than the average college student/person. One of those rules is not gambling.

Just like drinking in highschool is pretty much a non-issue for non-athletes, but if you get caught as an athlete you're losing a season of eligibility.

How is it not "real life". These guys have dedicated their lives to this sport. This was their last year to potentially compete as college athletes. Again your doubling down on the density.

 

[bammhawk1]

We have state attorney general Brenna Bird to thank for this fiasco. She started the investigation, using underlings from Dubuque County and Potowattame County to do her dirty work.

 

[GoHawks1996]

How is it not "real life". These guys have dedicated their lives to this sport. This was their last year to potentially compete as college athletes. Again your doubling down on the density.

Oh no vodka called me dense again 🤣🤣

The not "real life" thing is in reference to the fact that they have the privilege of being an NCAA athlete, and that privilege includes a set of rules that applies only to them. They do not have to be student athletes, and as long as the rules and subsequent punishment have been expressed in a clear manner, I have no problem with it (to a certain point, of course).

There are a ton of rules that NCAA athletes have to follow to remain student athletes, the gambling one should have been one of the easiest to follow. "Hey don't gamble, we're even going to have you attend a compliance session detailing the fact that you shouldn't gamble, and tell you the repercussions of what will happen if you do gamble."

They don't have to gamble, they don't need to gamble, and frankly it's probably for the better that they have strict policies on gambling, especially with the new NIL rules.

If you can't go the 5 years that you're in college without gambling, that's a you problem, not an NCAA problem.

It really really sucks that it happened to our guys (don't care about the clowns), and it's absolutely a bunch of BS that we know it's happening everywhere else but isn't getting punished equally, but that's life. At the end of the day, these kids decided that gambling (and the risks associated it, no matter how small), was more important to them than losing their wrestling season.

Edited: clarification on first paragraph

 

[bammhawk1]

This isn't "real life" though. This is college athletics. They are held to a higher standard than your average Joe.

When you have the privilege of being a D1 athlete, you agree to a different set of rules than the average college student/person. One of those rules is not gambling.

Just like drinking in highschool is pretty much a non-issue for non-athletes, but if you get caught as an athlete you're losing a season of eligibility.

Not even close to like drinking in HS. Kids get busted drinking now and they get 1/2 to 1 game suspensions. Not even close to a season

 

[GoHawks1996]

Not even close to like drinking in HS. Kids get busted drinking now and they get 1/2 to 1 game suspensions. Not even close to a season

Is it not a Code of Conduct anymore? That was always a full season suspension when I was in high school (not that long ago).

 

[bammhawk1]

Is it not a Code of Conduct anymore? That was always a full season suspension when I was in high school (not that long ago).

Same here. The HS my sons go to, 2 kids got busted before the season last year and 1 turned himself in and got a 1/2 game and the other didnt turn himself in and got 1 game. Dont agree with that at all

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Oh no vodka called me dense again 🤣🤣

The not "real life" thing is in reference to the fact that they have the privilege of being an NCAA athlete, and that privilege includes a set of rules that applies only to them. They do not have to be student athletes, and as long as the rules and subsequent punishment have been expressed in a clear manner, I have no problem with it (to a certain point, of course).

There are a ton of rules that NCAA athletes have to follow to remain student athletes, the gambling one should have been one of the easiest to follow. "Hey don't gamble, we're even going to have you attend a compliance session detailing the fact that you shouldn't gamble, and tell you the repercussions of what will happen if you do gamble."

They don't have to gamble, they don't need to gamble, and frankly it's probably for the better that they have strict policies on gambling, especially with the new NIL rules.

If you can't go the 5 years that you're in college without gambling, that's a you problem, not an NCAA problem.

It really really sucks that it happened to our guys (don't care about the clowns), and it's absolutely a bunch of BS that we know it's happening everywhere else but isn't getting punished equally, but that's life. At the end of the day, these kids decided that gambling (and the risks associated it, no matter how small), was more important to them than losing their wrestling season.

Edited: clarification on first paragraph

Yeah you still don't get it, and there's no indication that you're capable of getting it. You're mind is made. Dense.

 

[GoHawks1996]

Yeah you still don't get it, and there's no indication that you're capable of getting it. You're mind is made. Dense.

What else is there to say? They were fully aware of the risks associated with gambling and they did it anyways. They ended up getting a much lesser punishment than they were initially supposed to get due to the reform (didn't matter for most of our guys because they only had one year left unfortunately). What more was supposed to be done?

If you want to reform/modernize the rules for future athletes then that is totally reasonable, but why should these athletes who broke the rules knowing full well what the punishment would be get a free pass?

 

[Trapper85]

I think I've agreed with about 83% of these posts, on both sides, so can't figure out which side I'm on. The rule, at least to a degree, is dumb. The athletes knew the rule and were dumber. The punishment level is the dumbest (so I still feel sorry for them). That put me on Team Dense or Team Idiot?

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

What else is there to say? They were fully aware of the risks associated with gambling and they did it anyways. They ended up getting a much lesser punishment than they were initially supposed to get due to the reform (didn't matter for most of our guys because they only had one year left unfortunately). What more was supposed to be done?

If you want to reform/modernize the rules for future athletes then that is totally reasonable, but why should these athletes who broke the rules knowing full well what the punishment would be get a free pass?

You can't fathom that there could be a punishment that would still penalize them and dissuade gambling but also wouldn't be so egregiously harsh that it ends their careers? A one year suspension for betting a few hundred/thousand on women's basketball is egregious. A quarter of the season or even half might be fair.

You seem to have a very black and white mind. Imagine the penalty for a 5mph speed ticket was a 30 day jail sentence to use @MSU158's example. It would be appropriate to ridicule the severity of that penalty. Under your reasoning, the fact that the rule/law is clearly defined is itself sufficient for justifying the penalty. That's absurd and isn't how society should function.

 

[SPOONER]

@GoHawks1996 Is slaying idiots in this thread. Nailing it.

Personal responsibility is a thing of the past, sadly. Also, two things can be true: the punishment doesn’t fit the crime yet this is still no fault but the athletes. They knew the rule and didn’t think they’d get caught. But they did.

 

[west2east]

Then you're clueless. Guys are doing PEDs unpunished. Harbaugh is coaching in the playoffs in two weeks. But some wrestlers bet a few hundred on women's basketball and now they'll never compete again as punishment. Absolutely absurd. And the game they bet on was called out by the NCAA as being horribly officiated. So they likely were screwed on their bets as well due to NCAA incompetence! Double punishment lol. Completely absurd to defend the NCAA on this.

You keep moving the goalpost. We are talking about the gambling. If you think I'm clueless I would hate to see what you think of others.

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Is it not a Code of Conduct anymore? That was always a full season suspension when I was in high school (not that long ago).

nah, the code of conduct has only been 1st offense 1-3 events depends on offense and sport dates. 2nd is more like 1/2 a season and 3rd offense is a full calendar year. They have changed a little here and there over the years but been pretty similar to this.

 

[blcoach80]

nah, the code of conduct has only been 1st offense 1-3 events depends on offense and sport dates. 2nd is more like 1/2 a season and 3rd offense is a full calendar year. They have changed a little here and there over the years but been pretty similar to this.

This is roughly what our school follows. I have also seen kids game the system. Get caught for the second time and have a half season suspension, so they go out for a sport they don't normally do and serve the suspension in that sport. Kinda defeats the purpose and the lesson, but what do I know.

 

[GoHawks1996]

This is roughly what our school follows. I have also seen kids game the system. Get caught for the second time and have a half season suspension, so they go out for a sport they don't normally do and serve the suspension in that sport. Kinda defeats the purpose and the lesson, but what do I know.

Yep, a couple of my classmates decided to golf in high school for that exact reason lol.

 

[tigerhawk2015]

This isn't "real life" though. This is college athletics. They are held to a higher standard than your average Joe.

When you have the privilege of being a D1 athlete, you agree to a different set of rules than the average college student/person. One of those rules is not gambling.

Just like drinking in highschool is pretty much a non-issue for non-athletes, but if you get caught as an athlete you're losing a season of eligibility.

No You don’t lose a season of eligibility in high school, you lose a percentage of games. Which seems like an appropriate punishment which is what everyone is saying!

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

@GoHawks1996 Is slaying idiots in this thread. Nailing it.

Personal responsibility is a thing of the past, sadly. Also, two things can be true: the punishment doesn’t fit the crime yet this is still no fault but the athletes. They knew the rule and didn’t think they’d get caught. But they did.

If the NCAA took compliance this seriously universally for all issues and schools then I'd have no problem with it. The reality is that they don't. That's an issue. They put the hammer down on betting on women's basketball for athletes at just two schools, yet people who cheat to gain a competitive advantage in their actual sport are let off completely unpunished (or slapped on the wrist) - e.g. PED users, Harbaugh, recruiting violations, etc.

And again, myself and others have said that the athletes are at fault and do deserve some punishment. But a season long suspension is ridiculous. @IRONBIRD actually had one of the better ideas in the thread that some form of community service would be more appropriate. I'd say suspend them a quarter of the season, have them do community service, and contribute to a public service announcement on the downsides of gambling.

And again, the personal responsibility thing would make more sense if there was a nationwide audit of gambling violations. There's not, and countless other athletes across the nation outside of Iowa committed the same violations and are not held accountable. The NCAA knows that is a fact and even acknowledged that, but didn't take it into account when determining the punishment for the Iowa athletes.

Quite frankly it's absurd that you think the people making these arguments are "idiots".

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

You keep moving the goalpost. We are talking about the gambling. If you think I'm clueless I would hate to see what you think of others.

That isn't moving any goalpost. Why is gambling on women's sports punished harsher than cheating to gain a competitive advantage in your own sport?

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

@GoHawks1996 Also, two things can be true: the punishment doesn’t fit the crime yet this is still no fault but the athletes.

By definition, that puts the NCAA at fault in addition to the athletes. The NCAA set the punishment.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

 

[augiehawk]

By definition, that puts the NCAA at fault in addition to the athletes. The NCAA set the punishment.

Adults getting caught in years long cheating scandal such as recruiting violations, stealing signs, etc.. equals no punishment or 3 game ban. Kids that bet on a women's basketball game suspended for an entire year and ending their careers. Seems about right.