Badgers have themselves a Rudock/Beathard situation

[Auger]

So I have a couple family members and a good friend that are graduates from the Badger hole. Two of those individuals went to the spring game one of them my friend is still somewhat of a Hawkeye fan. I'm hearing that the badgers have a QB battle right now that in some ways resembles the Rudock/Beathard debate. I guess at the spring game Hornibrook (sp) a redshirt frosh wowed the crowd with three very nice deep completions of 35 yards or more, two for TD's. I guess this kid has a good arm and is accurate deep. The other guy Houston a SR doesnt have the accurate deep arm I guess he over throws guys deep however he runs the overall O a little better. Sounds a lot like Rudock and Beathard.

One thing that worries me about Wisconsin is if they find a QB that can kill a team deep and can make the midrange throws over the middle, something Wisconsin hasnt really had at QB that often. So im hoping that Houston wins the competition. Side note sounds like Wisconsin only drew around 9,000 to their spring game.

 

[J_Heater]

Bart Houston transferring to Michigan in the next few hours I am hearing.

9,000 people that should have been fishing instead of talent scouting the QB position in Madison. You could have a QB that is clueless but if he can throw a pretty deep ball it drives the fans crazy. Chicks dig the long ball.

 

[David1979]

So I have a couple family members and a good friend that are graduates from the Badger hole. Two of those individuals went to the spring game one of them my friend is still somewhat of a Hawkeye fan. I'm hearing that the badgers have a QB battle right now that in some ways resembles the Rudock/Beathard debate. I guess at the spring game Hornibrook (sp) a redshirt frosh wowed the crowd with three very nice deep completions of 35 yards or more, two for TD's. I guess this kid has a good arm and is accurate deep. The other guy Houston a SR doesnt have the accurate deep arm I guess he over throws guys deep however he runs the overall O a little better. Sounds a lot like Rudock and Beathard.

One thing that worries me about Wisconsin is if they find a QB that can kill a team deep and can make the midrange throws over the middle, something Wisconsin hasnt really had at QB that often. So im hoping that Houston wins the competition. Side note sounds like Wisconsin only drew around 9,000 to their spring game.

Yeah I wasn't impressed with Houston when I saw him last year. If they can't find a reliable QB it could be a tough year for them. Although they have Clement back and fully healthy which should help. it seems like they lost some good pieces on the oline. On defense their front seven should be really good again but their secondary might be weak.

 

[J_Heater]

Wasn't Houston another one of those famous Elite 11 QBs. I remember Badger fans a while back telling us how he was going to revolutionize the position.

 

[Auger]

Yeah I wasn't impressed with Houston when I saw him last year. If they can't find a reliable QB it could be a tough year for them. Although they have Clement back and fully healthy which should help. it seems like they lost some good pieces on the oline. On defense their front seven should be really good again but their secondary might be weak.

This is why I think their upside could be could be higher this year. Last year they basically were limited at the QB posistion however this year if Hornibrook can run the entire offense by this fall and he is holding that canon in his back pocket with Clement back and healthy they're offense could put up some points. I could see the Iowa Wisconsin game being a higher scoring game that it usually is.

 

[cmhawks99]

Bart Houston transferring to Michigan in the next few hours I am hearing.

9,000 people that should have been fishing instead of talent scouting the QB position in Madison. You could have a QB that is clueless but if he can throw a pretty deep ball it drives the fans crazy. Chicks dig the long ball.

LOL...so true. On a related side note, I used to get really frustrated by our fans & their constant questioning of personnel, play calling and "scheme" etc..Then I realized every fan of every sports team in the world does the same. Makes you wonder why they are all working lower end jobs when they could all be making 1 mill plus...LOL

 

[David1979]

This is why I think their upside could be could be higher this year. Last year they basically were limited at the QB posistion however this year if Hornibrook can run the entire offense by this fall and he is holding that canon in his back pocket with Clement back and healthy they're offense could put up some points. I could see the Iowa Wisconsin game being a higher scoring game that it usually is.

Yeah but I also saw where Chryst said just a few practices before he threw 5 interceptions in practice. So he probably has a long way to go. I think they also have a young oline this coming year. They always put out a good line but may not be elite this coming year with how young they are.

 

[Auger]

LOL...so true. On a related side note, I used to get really frustrated by our fans & their constant questioning of personnel, play calling and "scheme" etc..Then I realized every fan of every sports team in the world does the same. Makes you wonder why they are all working lower end jobs when they could all be making 1 mill plus...LOL

Where are you going with this? So millionaires don't critique sports? Chicks do dig the long ball, but coaches aren't all chicks either. Do you think coaches want to be able to throw the ball down field in games? When you're down a couple scores and your opponent has stopped your run game it would be nice to have a QB that can throw the long ball and throw 20 yds over the middle of the field with accuracy.

 

[DodgerHawki]

This is why I think their upside could be could be higher this year. Last year they basically were limited at the QB posistion however this year if Hornibrook can run the entire offense by this fall and he is holding that canon in his back pocket with Clement back and healthy they're offense could put up some points. I could see the Iowa Wisconsin game being a higher scoring game that it usually is.

Wisconsin's offense went to another level in the 2011-14 time period when they had the big-time difference makers at RB with Russell Wilson and then Gordon, as well as having an NFL receiver in Aberderis. Clement doesn't strike me as being in the same class as Gordon or White, even when healthy. A difference-maker at QB would be very big. Wisconsin's receiver corps doesn't strike fear into anyone. Some capable players, but very similar to Iowa in that regard.

 

[ichawk24]

Two QBs competing for an open position is not a "Rudock/Beathard situation". Houston threw 47 passes last year. It is an open job.

 

[cmhawks99]

Where are you going with this? So millionaires don't critique sports? Chicks do dig the long ball, but coaches aren't all chicks either. Do you think coaches want to be able to throw the ball down field in games? When you're down a couple scores and your opponent has stopped your run game it would be nice to have a QB that can throw the long ball and throw 20 yds over the middle of the field with accuracy.

This answers the question, I DO think they coaches want to. I also think its WAY tougher than ALL fans think, including the millionaires. Keep in mind Heat said it first, I just piggy backed with him. His point was fans routinely want the guy who they think can throw a nice long ball regardless of their ability to grasp the offense or run it. Its a constant...and it gets old. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[cmhawks99]

Two QBs competing for an open position is not a "Rudock/Beathard situation". Houston threw 47 passes last year. It is an open job.

I understand but the point he was making is, if the QB (Houston) wins the job, the fans will likely be unhappy because their perception is the other guy is better. You know he has more "upside"..a fan favorite comment.

 

[David1979]

This answers the question, I DO think they coaches want to. I also think its WAY tougher than ALL fans think, including the millionaires. Keep in mind Heat said it first, I just piggy backed with him. His point was fans routinely want the guy who they think can throw a nice long ball regardless of their ability to grasp the offense or run it. Its a constant...and it gets old. Nothing more nothing less.

Why do you care if some Wisconsin fans want the guy who throws a better long ball to win the job? Does it affect you in some way?

 

[Auger]

Wisconsin's offense went to another level in the 2011-14 time period when they had the big-time difference makers at RB with Russell Wilson and then Gordon, as well as having an NFL receiver in Aberderis. Clement doesn't strike me as being in the same class as Gordon or White, even when healthy. A difference-maker at QB would be very big. Wisconsin's receiver corps doesn't strike fear into anyone. Some capable players, but very similar to Iowa in that regard.

Which is why teams like Iowa and Wiscosnin need guys like you said they need a difference maker at QB somebody that can rate solid to high at all things a QB needs to do like throw down the field. If you look at Stave and Rudocks career's you will see in most games they were asked to go outside their comfort zones outside the conservative style and throw deep or throw 10 plus yards over the middle they lost those games. I remember with Rudock if we were down 7 with 7 mins to go you would still feel like we would lose. With Beathard it always felt like you could be down 10 or even 14 with 7 mins to go and we still had a shot to win. It felt like that with Stanzi, Tate and Banks too.

 

[Auger]

This answers the question, I DO think they coaches want to. I also think its WAY tougher than ALL fans think, including the millionaires. Keep in mind Heat said it first, I just piggy backed with him. His point was fans routinely want the guy who they think can throw a nice long ball regardless of their ability to grasp the offense or run it. Its a constant...and it gets old. Nothing more nothing less.

I agree somewhat. If the guy is throwing 30 TD's and 20 INT's a season fans typically give that guy the boot which is shown all throught college FB with the guys that started and then transfer to another school. Tate was a mixed bag at times with fan support but many saw how he could change a game in just one play. Its like what I stated just a minute ago, its kind of about prefernce. I would rather have a QB that will be rough around the edges at times but can still win you a game with his arm late then a conservative QB that struggles late in games when he is asked to come out of his comfort zone. In my eyes the QB that is rough around the edges but has an arm still might only win you the same amount of games as the conservative QB but the upside as we saw last year and the years with Stanzi and Tate could be much higher.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

With their schedule...they had better get excellent qb play if they want to make it to the 7 win level...Look at their first 8 games...2-3 wins..max?

 

[cmhawks99]

Which is why teams like Iowa and Wiscosnin need guys like you said they need a difference maker at QB somebody that can rate solid to high at all things a QB needs to do like throw down the field. If you look at Stave and Rudocks career's you will see in most games they were asked to go outside their comfort zones outside the conservative style and throw deep or throw 10 plus yards over the middle they lost those games. I remember with Rudock if we were down 7 with 7 mins to go you would still feel like we would lose. With Beathard it always felt like you could be down 10 or even 14 with 7 mins to go and we still had a shot to win. It felt like that with Stanzi, Tate and Banks too.

Well for what its worth, there are only about 10 top shelf QBs in the NFL right now and as a general rule, I don't spend a great deal of time questioning coaches and the decisions they make. I don't disagree with your thoughts but EVERY team needs that. Where we don't agree is that the best QB who can throw down field IS the best QB?

Fans are impetuous in my opinion. They rarely make decisions based on cumulative information and how could they? They aren't privy to all the pertinent information needed to make those decisions...

Couple quick touch points.....Ruddock had a terrific year at Michigan, easy to see why he was the original Choice at Iowa...

I don't really remember us being down in many games this year and certainly not by 10 or 14 points? So when I say that was just a perception or feeling we had as fans because we enjoyed CJ's play so much, I'm not challenging you but the facts belie what we "felt"..

I have questioned coaches at times but I question in a different manner than most fans.. I don't run around acting like "those dumb coaches" are really screwing up. I actually try to embrace things as to "why" did they do it...If I can understand it, I don't sweat them.

Case in point, I play some fantasy football and I'll imagine you know Belichik is famous for benching Rbs who fumble or sometimes for seemingly no reason at all. Its baffling to me, yet how do I question him, he is a hall of fame coach.

Or how about Pete Carroll and that fateful super bowl play?! I'm actually still baffled by the pass but I do get why he threw a pass. I happen to think the run was a no-brainer, but if you want to pass throw a fade or to the back of the end-zone...yet he is entitled to make mistakes, Lord knows I do.

Many fans act like they don't & I have to tell you I don't like it and I will always call people out who act that way....that's my bent in a nut shell.

 

[cmhawks99]

I agree somewhat. If the guy is throwing 30 TD's and 20 INT's a season fans typically give that guy the boot which is shown all throught college FB with the guys that started and then transfer to another school. Tate was a mixed bag at times with fan support but many saw how he could change a game in just one play. Its like what I stated just a minute ago, its kind of about prefernce. I would rather have a QB that will be rough around the edges at times but can still win you a game with his arm late then a conservative QB that struggles late in games when he is asked to come out of his comfort zone. In my eyes the QB that is rough around the edges but has an arm still might only win you the same amount of games as the conservative QB but the upside as we saw last year and the years with Stanzi and Tate could be much higher.

2 things, Stanzi and Tate still lost a lot of games....

2nd) Tim Tebow, ugly motion, dumb decisions but all he did was win. I'm still convinced he could win football games in the NFL, but all the same I'm not a coach and I'm not going to pretend like I am. As a rule fans aren't capable of seeing things the way coaches see them IMO.

 

[shank hawk]

Finding a competent replacement for Aranda is more important to the stinkin' Badgers than choosing between two decent quarterbacks.

Here's hoping they didn't.

 

[David1979]

Finding a competent replacement for Aranda is more important to the stinkin' Badgers than choosing between two decent quarterbacks.

Here's hoping they didn't.

Great point!

 

[Auger]

Well for what its worth, there are only about 10 top shelf QBs in the NFL right now and as a general rule, I don't spend a great deal of time questioning coaches and the decisions they make. I don't disagree with your thoughts but EVERY team needs that. Where we don't agree is that the best QB who can throw down field IS the best QB?

Fans are impetuous in my opinion. They rarely make decisions based on cumulative information and how could they? They aren't privy to all the pertinent information needed to make those decisions...

Couple quick touch points.....Ruddock had a terrific year at Michigan, easy to see why he was the original Choice at Iowa...

I don't really remember us being down in many games this year and certainly not by 10 or 14 points? So when I say that was just a perception or feeling we had as fans because we enjoyed CJ's play so much, I'm not challenging you but the facts belie what we "felt"..

I have questioned coaches at times but I question in a different manner than most fans.. I don't run around acting like "those dumb coaches" are really screwing up. I actually try to embrace things as to "why" did they do it...If I can understand it, I don't sweat them.

Case in point, I play some fantasy football and I'll imagine you know Belichik is famous for benching Rbs who fumble or sometimes for seemingly no reason at all. Its baffling to me, yet how do I question him, he is a hall of fame coach.

Or how about Pete Carroll and that fateful super bowl play?! I'm actually still baffled by the pass but I do get why he threw a pass. I happen to think the run was a no-brainer, but if you want to pass throw a fade or to the back of the end-zone...yet he is entitled to make mistakes, Lord knows I do.

Many fans act like they don't & I have to tell you I don't like it and I will always call people out who act that way....that's my bent in a nut shell.

Never said the best QB that can throw downfield is the best QB. Rudock did have a good year last year he had a year like he typically had with Iowa. He also got to throw to better WR's and had what many considered a top 5 defense. However he also struggled once again when he was asked to go outside his comfort zone. In losses against Utah, MSU and OSU he was solid in the short yardage game but bleow avg when asked to throw down field.

My point is that QB's like Rudock typically don't make plays that win you tough games but they don't make dumb plays to lose you games aginst teams you should beat either. Guys like Beathard can make big plays to win you tough games but on the flip they could make some dumb plays to put you behind but a coach will find it easier to reign in a strong armed QB then they will to get a weak armed QB to all of a sudden start flinging it around the field with success. With Rudock and Beathard it wasnt like there was a night and day difference between them in running the offense and from what I hear its not with the Wisconisin guys either.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Finding a competent replacement for Aranda is more important to the stinkin' Badgers than choosing between two decent quarterbacks.

Here's hoping they didn't.

True..add in that they hired a guy that hadn't coached a game, as their new DB coach, and there could be some issues early on for the defense...

I know Jim L had a damn fine playing career with the Badgers and a long NFL career....

Coaching for the first time,under a brand new DC, and having to replace 3 players in the defensive backfield, is not exactly a perfect recipe for sucsess...especially with their schedule.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

I went to a few UW practices this spring, the lefty looked decent, but he hasnt been hit yet either. Receivers need A LOT of work

 

[cmhawks99]

The one thing that always strikes me is how far off we as fans often are as far as preseason prognostications. Heck even the pundits for that matter. I don't personal enjoy ANY of the announcers on ESPN or their analyst for the most part. They say just as dumb, biased and silly things as the average fan. Honestly we really don't know what next year holds. Last year, though I wasn't on here, I imagine everyone expected us to suck. Its very fickle....Same goes for Wiscy, etc....the only thing I will say is the talent level (this is where our draft talent IS important) has remained solid to above solid.

Coming back full circle to QB play, that IS the number one area where we have been very inconsistent.

 

[Auger]

I think what they end up having on defense next year could help decide the QB race. If they think they will give up more points I can see them going with the guy with a better arm. You can always reign him in but always have the threat of the deep ball in your back pocket and keep defenses honest.

A lot of the Rudock defenders always stated that he could run the overall offense better and would minimize mistakes. I think that last season disporved that thought. KF reigned Beathard in and didnt let him just gun sling it and the offense ran better with him and then Iowa always had that option to go deep with Beathard. I would argue that Beathard had better football IQ then Rudock as well when making changes at the LOS when seeing weaknesses.

 

[Auger]

I went to a few UW practices this spring, the lefty looked decent, but he hasnt been hit yet either. Receivers need A LOT of work

That was the problem with Hackenberg at PSU. He had all the talent in the world until he started getting hit. Of course when youre getting hit like him on basically every drop back I don't hink anyone is going to look good.

 

[David1979]

The one thing that always strikes me is how far off we as fans often are as far as preseason prognostications. Heck even the pundits for that matter. I don't personal enjoy ANY of the announcers on ESPN or their analyst for the most part. They say just as dumb, biased and silly things as the average fan. Honestly we really don't know what next year holds. Last year, though I wasn't on here, I imagine everyone expected us to suck. Its very fickle....Same goes for Wiscy, etc....the only thing I will say is the talent level (this is where our draft talent IS important) has remained solid to above solid.

Coming back full circle to QB play, that IS the number one area where we have been very inconsistent.

usually the top few teams are pretty accurate. But that is the easy part. It is hard picking after that. But if you are predicting bowl winners you would do pretty well just picking the team that was ranked higher in the preseason. Same for the NCAA tournament in basketball. The preseason polls aren't supposed to be a prediction of where a team will end up at the end of the season. And no, not everyone was saying Iowa was going to suck. If you are making predictions of how a team will do before the season all you can do is look at what happened the year before and who is coming back. Who cares if no one knows exactly what will happen? That is why something is called a prediction. It is a guess. Sometimes you are wrong and sometimes you are right. I

 

[SigMaintHawk]

That was the problem with Hackenberg at PSU. He had all the talent in the world until he started getting hit. Of course when youre getting hit like him on basically every drop back I don't hink anyone is going to look good.

Another problem for Hack was he wasn't recruited to play in James Franklin's "style" of offense..They decided to force him to play in their style instead of designing something that fit his skills. Probably a reason Franklin dx'd his OC after last season..

 

[cmhawks99]

Never said the best QB that can throw downfield is the best QB. Rudock did have a good year last year he had a year like he typically had with Iowa. He also got to throw to better WR's and had what many considered a top 5 defense. However he also struggled once again when he was asked to go outside his comfort zone. In losses against Utah, MSU and OSU he was solid in the short yardage game but bleow avg when asked to throw down field.

My point is that QB's like Rudock typically don't make plays that win you tough games but they don't make dumb plays to lose you games aginst teams you should beat either. Guys like Beathard can make big plays to win you tough games but on the flip they could make some dumb plays to put you behind but a coach will find it easier to reign in a strong armed QB then they will to get a weak armed QB to all of a sudden start flinging it around the field with success. With Rudock and Beathard it wasnt like there was a night and day difference between them in running the offense and from what I hear its not with the Wisconisin guys either.

Honestly I'll tell you the Truth, I don't have a clue. But I'm not in agreement that UM's WR's were drastically better. In fact though Chesson, Darboh and TE-Butt were awesome, were they really much better than Vandy, Smith, HKC and Kittle? Plus Iowa's running game was MUCH better.

I'm going to Channel my inner Jim Harbaugh, he was pretty fond of JR, its all a matter of perception. If you remember correctly KF bristled last year when CJ was called a game manager, that's my overarching point. Some people saw CJ as a average QB who managed a game, We all see what we tell ourselves to see.

Do I think CJ was better, yes I most assuredly do, but it was closer than our fans cared to believe. But I'll also say, that tiny difference was monumental for us! But maybe, just MAYBE the leadership difference was the real difference maker?!? Right?! I'll even go so far as to say if we charted plays, you'd likely be surprised how many times JR threw downfield past 20 yards. I say this because the average fan would be shocked if they knew how often they throw passes in the NFL only 3 to 5 yards plus or minus the line of scrimmage. It was remarkable when I started charting it.

Its worth noting CJ needs to improve on his down field throwing. It left plenty of room for improvement last year and I believe he and Coach GD both mentioned it.

But the Leadership attributes aren't easy to chart and that's where I profess CJ is at a different level. Its also what you are seeing when you say you "felt" like we were always in a game! Fans don't like to talk about leadership, or chemistry or effort and "execution" because they want someone to "pay" for their favorite team losing and its easier to blame more tangible things. But that is the difference when it truly comes down to it. How bad does it hurt to lose and how hard are you willing to practice and play to assure you don't!?

 

[Auger]

2 things, Stanzi and Tate still lost a lot of games....

2nd) Tim Tebow, ugly motion, dumb decisions but all he did was win. I'm still convinced he could win football games in the NFL, but all the same I'm not a coach and I'm not going to pretend like I am. As a rule fans aren't capable of seeing things the way coaches see them IMO.

That was the thing with Stanzi and Tate they still lost games still made some dumb mistakes but they still won big games with their arms and got Iowa to some of its highest points in our history.

Don't get the Tebow mention. Florida ran a completely different offense and had one of the best deffenses. While Rudock and other conservative QB's at Iowa may have had Tebows arm they didnt have his feet and agility nor his QB IQ. And for someone that doesnt question coaches if NFL coaches are convinced Tebow can't win in the NFL then I guess you should be too.

 

[spbc7]

Chryst's offense is about as QB friendly as it gets. As long as you can hand the ball off on your 1 yard line without fumbling, you should be good.

 

[David1979]

Honestly I'll tell you the Truth, I don't have a clue. But I'm not in agreement that UM's WR's were drastically better. In fact though Chesson, Darboh and TE-Butt were awesome, were they really much better than Vandy, Smith, HKC and Kittle? Plus Iowa's running game was MUCH better.

I'm going to Channel my inner Jim Harbaugh, he was pretty fond of JR, its all a matter of perception. If you remember correctly KF bristled last year when CJ was called a game manger, that's my overarching point. Some people saw CJ as a average QB who managed a game, We all see what we tell ourselves to see.

Do I think CJ was better, yes I most assuredly do, but it was closer than our fans cared to believe. But I'll also say, that tiny difference was monumental for us! But maybe, just MAYBE the leadership difference was the really difference maker?!?!? Right?!?! I'll even go so far as to say if we charted plays, you'd likely be surprised how many times JR threw downfield past 20 yards. I say this because the average fan would be shocked if they knew how often they throw passes in the NFL only 3 to 5 yards plus or minus the line of scrimmage. It was remarkable when I started charting it.

Its worth noting CJ needs to improve on his down field throwing. It left plenty of room for improvement last year and I believe he and Coach GD both mentioned it.

But the Leadership attributes aren't easy to chart and that's where I profess CJ is at a different level. Its also what you are seeing when you say you "felt" like we were always in a game! Fans don't like to talk about leadership, or chemistry or effort and "execution" because they want someone to "pay" for their favorite team losing and its easier to blame more tangible things. But that is the difference when it truly comes down to it. How bad does it hurt to lose and how hard are you willing to practice and play to assure you don't!?

Chesson is one of the top receivers in the country. Don't know how you can say their receivers weren't better. Butt was one of the top tight ends in college football and would have been one of the first few taken in the draft if he had declared. Might be the top TE taken next year.

 

[cmhawks99]

I think what they end up having on defense next year could help decide the QB race. If they think they will give up more points I can see them going with the guy with a better arm. You can always reign him in but always have the threat of the deep ball in your back pocket and keep defenses honest.

A lot of the Rudock defenders always stated that he could run the overall offense better and would minimize mistakes. I think that last season disporved that thought. KF reigned Beathard in and didnt let him just gun sling it and the offense ran better with him and then Iowa always had that option to go deep with Beathard. I would argue that Beathard had better football IQ then Rudock as well when making changes at the LOS when seeing weaknesses.

I don't necessarily think they reigned CJ in as much as fans think. Iowa has a good offense and not nearly as conservative as the critics believe. With that said, your bolded comment I concur with as much as I could agree with anything.....He definitely has a better football, IQ, more passion and more desire. That play in the Pittsburgh game sealed what he was and will be for me. THAT play is only made by very, very few QB's. See THAT'S a winning play and all it was was a run up the field, but he was aware and in control until literally the last second.

I told you I look at things quite a bit different than the average fan, I don't see "bullet" passes, though those are nice, I see..." is he a football player. Does it mean a great deal to him..."

 

[cmhawks99]

Chesson is one of the top receivers in the country. Don't know how you can say their receivers weren't better. Butt was one of the top tight ends in college football and would have been one of the first few taken in the draft if he had declared. Might be the top TE taken next year.

1st reread what I said, then check overall stats for UM's 3 and then Iowa's four targets i/e: more options. In fact statistically speaking Iowa had more options but hell your the "comprehension expert" ...LOL Focus on "drastically" and the totality of what was said....then get back to me, on second thought don't...

 

[David1979]

1st reread what I said, then check overall stats for UM's 3 and then Iowa's four targets i/e: more options. In fact statistically speaking Iowa had more options but hell your the "comprehension expert" ...LOL Focus on "drastically" and the totality of what was said....then get back to me, on second thought don't...

They are drastically better. Those two were first team all big ten guys. I would bet Iowa coaches would say those guys are drastically better than Iowa's. It is not a controversial statement. You said yourself you don't have a clue so I don't know why you are getting all worked up?

 

[cmhawks99]

That was the thing with Stanzi and Tate they still lost games still made some dumb mistakes but they still won big games with their arms and got Iowa to some of its highest points in our history.

Don't get the Tebow mention. Florida ran a completely different offense and had one of the best deffenses. While Rudock and other conservative QB's at Iowa may have had Tebows arm they didnt have his feet and agility nor his QB IQ. And for someone that doesnt question coaches if NFL coaches are convinced Tebow can't win in the NFL then I guess you should be too.

You totally missed the analogy, but to be fair you said you did....

You do have to have grasp of my philosophy or past comments I've made to really get me?. I'm sorry I do explain myself, but you need to know where I'm coming from. I said I do sometimes wonder (question) where they are coming from but I can usually see the thought process and most importantly I never run around calling them stupid. MANY on here do....

2nd...Tebow has very strong arm, not terribly accurate but he IS A WINNER. He has proven it many, many times. But as a QB you'd question his ability, but all he does is win games. Its apropos because he doesn't pass the "QB" beauty test that fans love, but he wins...I've always wished that he'd get another real chance for a season, but I certainly understand why he doesn't....see how that's different than what often happens or here.

People on here would say things like, he's awful how stupid can the coaches be....or...I know he isn't a typical QB but why in the hell can't these dumb coaches design an offense that works for him, he's obviously a winner...That is the kind of complaining & questioning that IS NOT productive. Those people are idiots and I have no respect for them, that's the difference.

As far as the Stanzi/Tate things go, yes if your okay with your QB losing games as often as they win them, they are fine. Sadly its not nearly as simple as us fans need it to be. And honestly kind of contrary to what said fans say. Stanzi was one of my favorite QB's in Iowa history. Tate was okay but way to demonstrative for me and that is coming from an intense high-strung father of 5. I just don't get how some fans think. Give me a QB who can "win" a game on his "own" (never a 1 man thing incidentally) and I'll seemingly forget all the games he throws away. Bret Favre anyone..another of my favorites but honestly, its odd to me.

Bart Starr wouldn't be very popular in today's NFL...

 

[cmhawks99]

They are drastically better. Those two were first team all big ten guys. I would bet Iowa coaches would say those guys are drastically better than Iowa's. It is not a controversial statement. You said yourself you don't have a clue so I don't know why you are getting all worked up?

Yep they would, however you are still lost, not really your just pretending to not understand and brother, no chance I'd let someone like you work me up. ..

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

 

[Auger]

You totally missed the analogy, but to be fair you said you did....

You do have to have grasp of my philosophy or past comments I've made to really get me?. I'm sorry I do explain myself, but you need to know where I'm coming from. I said I do sometimes wonder (question) where they are coming from but I can usually see the thought process and most importantly I never run around calling them stupid. MANY on here do....

2nd...Tebow has very strong arm, not terribly accurate but he IS A WINNER. He has proven it many, many times. But as a QB you'd question his ability, but all he does is win games. Its apropos because he doesn't pass the "QB" beauty test that fans love, but he wins...I've always wished that he'd get another real chance for a season, but I certainly understand why he doesn't....see how that's different than what often happens or here.

People on here would say things like, he's awful how stupid can the coaches be....or...I know he isn't a typical QB but why in the hell can't these dumb coaches design an offense that works for him, he's obviously a winner...That is the kind of complaining & questioning that IS NOT productive. Those people are idiots and I have no respect for them, that's the difference.

As far as the Stanzi/Tate things go, yes if your okay with your QB losing games as often as they win them, they are fine. Sadly its not nearly as simple as us fans need it to be. And honestly kind of contrary to what said fans say. Stanzi was one of my favorite QB's in Iowa history. Tate was okay but way to demonstrative for me and that is coming from an intense high-strung father of 5. I just don't get how some fans think. Give me a QB who can "win" a game on his "own" (never a 1 man thing incidentally) and I'll seemingly forget all the games he throws away. Bret Favre anyone..another of my favorites but honestly, its odd to me.
Bart Starr wouldn't be very popular in today's NFL...

I think I've confused you. What I am saying is you don't bring up Tebow when we are talking about QB's like Rudock. You are right Tebow was a play maker and a winner he could make things happen with his feet and could make things happen in the passing game outside the pocket, but he didnt have a big accurate arm but he could make game winning plays with his arm. I speak highly of Banks who didnt have a big accurate arm but could make things happen with his feet and with his arm. He could extend plays like Tebow. The main topic isnt so much that teams need a big armed QB its more that teams need a guy that can make a play to win games. Stanzi, Banks, Beathard and Tate could make plays down field when the team needed them to. Rudock & Christensen not so much as well as guys like Stave. And KF did reign Beathard in some this last year. When Beathard was a sub he would come in looking to make a big play KF got him to vision the entire field.

When it comes to why some fans question coaches well most all of us can admit KF has shown a tendacy of favoring starters in the past only to be proven wrong when some of the backups come in and completely change the team.

 

[David1979]

I think I've confused you. What I am saying is you don't bring up Tebow when we are talking about QB's like Rudock. You are right Tebow was a play maker and a winner he could make things happen with his feet and could make things happen in the passing game outside the pocket, but he didnt have a big accurate arm but he could make game winning plays with his arm. I speak highly of Banks who didnt have a big accurate arm but could make things happen with his feet and with his arm. He could extend plays like Tebow. The main topic isnt so much that teams need a big armed QB its more that teams need a guy that can make a play to win games. Stanzi, Banks, Beathard and Tate could make plays down field when the team needed them to. Rudock & Christensen not so much as well as guys like Stave. And KF did reign Beathard in some this last year. When Beathard was a sub he would come in looking to make a big play KF got him to vision the entire field.

When it comes to why some fans question coaches well most all of us can admit KF has shown a tendacy of favoring starters in the past only to be proven wrong when some of the backups come in and completely change the team.

Now you've gone and done it. Chad is going to be mad!